Veendam failed latest cdc inspection

[headhunterke]

Just to put this in context, a whole boatload of HAL cheerleaders jumped up and down attempting to defend the line and disparage the CDC last month when this came up on an earlier thread.

 

Until Veendam, ...... Rotterdam had scored worse than any other ship from a major cruise line. Any score below 85 is considered unsatisfactory.

 

Rotterdam was a borderline 86.

 

Rotterdam -- 86

Veendam -- previously 93 -- now with a failing 77

Zaandam -- 93

Amsterdam -- 94

Maasdam -- 95

Westerdam -- 95

Ryndam -- 97

Prinsendam -- 98

Statendam -- 98

Noordam -- 99

Oosterdam -- 99

Volendam -- 99

Zuiderdam -- 99

Eurodam -- 100

Nieuw Amsterdam -- 100

 

Since Jan 1, 2012, a total of 25 ships have scored 100. HAL has two.

The only ship (until Veendam) to rate lower than Rotterdam this year was the MV Yorktown, a 138-passenger ship on the Great Lakes, rated filthiest at 74.

Only one other ship scored 86 -- tied with Rotterdam for second worst -- the Caribbean Fantasy. No other ships scored below 90. (until Veendam)

 

Phoeh, I'm happy the Nieuw Amsterdam gets the max. score. The soon I saw this post, I started to do a little panic stuff :p

Seriously now, it is a shame that a company as prestigious as HAL, that profiles itself as one of the best liners, has a ship in this condition.

It's not only good for both ships, but a major bad news for HAL itself.

I truly hope they jump right out their seats and do something asap.

[Sea42]

Bruce Muzz........

 

Can you/would you confirm whether or not the crew knows in advance when there will be a USPH Inspection or is it more they 'know they are about due' and prepare just in case?

 

It is my understanding these are unannounce Inspections.

 

Thanks if you can confirm that or correct me if I am wrong.

I'm not Bruce but this information is on the CDC website:

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/desc/aboutvsp.htm

What VSP Does

 

The Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) assists the cruise ship industry to prevent and control the introduction, transmission, and spread of gastrointestinal (GI) illnesses on cruise ships. VSP operates under the authority of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. Section 264 Quarantine and Inspection Regulations to Control Communicable Diseases).

 

 

We accomplish this mission by:

 

• inspecting cruise ships, including both periodic, unannounced operational sanitation inspections and scheduled construction inspections;
  

[sail7seas]

<snip>

 

 

 

We accomplish this mission by:

 

• inspecting cruise ships, including both periodic, unannounced operational sanitation inspections and scheduled construction inspections;
  

 

 

 

I wonder....... which was Veendam's?

Unannounced operational sanitation inspection I would suspect.

 

Thanks for bring forward this quote. Helpful.

 

[Copper10-8]

Bruce Muzz........

 

Can you/would you confirm whether or not the crew knows in advance when there will be a USPH Inspection or is it more they 'know they are about due' and prepare just in case?

 

It is my understanding these are unannounce Inspections.

 

Thanks if you can confirm that or correct me if I am wrong.

 

I'm not Mr. Muzz either, but I can tell you that USPH inspections are unscheduled! In other words, there is no advance notice to the ship's management when the inspectors are going to show at their gangway when in a U.S. port.

[serendipity1499]

You need to read the CDC Vessel Sanitation Program Manual to get the answer you seek.

 

CDC VSP standards are extremely strict. I do not know of any restaurant in America that would get a score as HIGH as 77 if they were inspected under the same standards.

That is not to excuse the poor score on Veendam. The rest of us manage to receive high scores on our ships - Veendam should have been able to do the same.

 

In any case, to save you the trouble of wading through the VSP Manual, the CDC does have the authority to prevent a ship from sailing from or to a US Port if they believe that conditions onboard pose any health threats to passengers or crew.

In this case, despite a very high number of technical violations, the inspectors determined that nobody was in any jeopardy.

I would be more worried to have a meal at your local McDonalds, Olive Garden or Cheesecake Factory. After inspecting many of these over the years, I would have fired all the employees and closed them down. Their cleanliness standards would never come close to passing a CDC inspection.

 

Bruce, I too thank you for your post & understand what you are saying, but as Kazu mentioned you can't compare a cruise to McDonald's, or the Olive Garden..Eating once or twice in 6 months at McDonald's or Olive Garden is completely different than spending a week to several months on a cruise ship eating, sleeping & playing 24/7.

However, what really is amazing to me is how can a ship get a 93 in April & then get a 77 in Aug..

Why as others have said, doesn't HAL pull a ship out of service to correct these many infractions..Who is responsible for this terrible score..Is it the Captain's or the Hotel Mgr's fault or does the fault lie with Corporate Headquarters.

HAL might be booked, but why should Psgrs who pay good money be subjected to AC & Toilets not working in addition to hearing about a terrible score from the CDC...The days of keeping secrets are over..Sooner or later, with the Internet being so popular, more & more Psgrs will find out the problems plaguing this ship..Also, if the media gets wind of this, HAL will have more of a problem than cancelling a couple of 7 day cruises to get the ship back in good condition..

Again Thanks for your input..

JMO...:)Betty

[MortgageChick]

On Noordam in Dec, see she scored 99, so thats great. We were on Veendam in Dec, ship was clean, food was VG, we did a 17 N BA to Santiago including Antarctica.

 

It was extremely hot in BA and Montevideo and the AC was fine(just 9 months ago).

 

However upon leaving BA we did sideswipe a container ship, ( the container ship was stationery) taking out 30feet of the rail on the top deck, smash 2 windows in the crows nest bar, and apparently the Captain kept on going trying to get the " hell out of Dodge" . We were apprehended, so to speak, by the Argentinian coastguard and held in BA overnight, until their was an "investigation" of sorts. HAL denied any wrongdoing, I am not so sure. I think money talks in Argentina, but that is just my opinion.

t

I think HAL did not relish the thought of refunding 2000 people 17 night fare over Xmas and New Year on an expensive Antarctic itinerary and then paying for us all to return home,and likely a big discount on a future cruise.

 

Other than this small wrinkle, we had a great sailing on Veendam. I would not sail again for 17 nights on a ship that size. Eurodam is the perfect ship in my opinion, and she is my fave of all ships in all cruise lines.

 

HAL does most things well, but I am mystified by their lack of maintenance on some ships.

The pricing is above their competition, so passengers do expect that they at least pass inspection.

[Cruzin Terri]

Hi Terri

 

Seeing that you got off the ship on August 19 when the inspectors got on -- how was your cruise?

 

Did you see any problems?

I disembarked on April 19, not August 19 and my cruise was wonderful. I found the ship very clean and had no problems while on board for 31 days. We did the repo from South America.

Terri

[Cruzin Terri]

Did you do a trans-Atlantic & in you opinion, what was the condition of the ship then?

 

What is amazing to me is how the ship could deteriorate that quickly..:confused::confused:

 

Betty

We did the repositioning from Buenos Aires. I was on the ship for 31 days and really did not have any problems nor did I hear of many complaints. The only place that I noticed that was warm was the casino. That was good. I stayed away and saved money. LOL. The ship appeared clean and we had no plumbing or AC issues in our stateroom.

Terri

[BruceMuzz]

Bruce Muzz........

 

Can you/would you confirm whether or not the crew knows in advance when there will be a USPH Inspection or is it more they 'know they are about due' and prepare just in case?

 

It is my understanding these are unannounce Inspections.

 

Thanks if you can confirm that or correct me if I am wrong.

 

The Vessel Sanitation Program requires 2 surprise inspections per year for all non-US Flag ships that call at US Ports.

The VSP Program ends their year on 31 October.

All surprise VSP inspections must take place in US Ports.

The inspectors require a port call of at least 4 hours to perform the inspection.

That's as much as we know.

 

Until a few years ago, the inspections were like clockwork.

Although we did not know exactly when they would come, we could predict a one-month window when they were most likely come to inspect us. During this 30-day window, we would have all F&B crew working many overtime hours, keeping the ships up to the incredibly high USPH standards. But we cannot keep this up for very long periods. It really wears down the crew.

 

Technically speaking it is impossible for a ship to get the 100 perfect score that we all aim for.

Many of the things we do on cruise ships are not allowed by the Vessel Sanitation program:

 

Scrambling whole eggs, setting tables more than 4 hours before a meal, putting unwrapped butter on dining tables, preparing food in dimly lit places like dining rooms, using food from dented cans, having a buffet BBQ under an open sky, serving a rare steak, staff changing diapers in the child-care center, serving fresh oysters, making sushi with cold rice, waiters delivering a birthday cake with candles but no fire extinguisher, finding a live housefly in the dining room - all will result in points deducted and possible failure on the inspection.

 

So if we can guess more or less when the inspection will be taking place, we change many of our procedures for a month or so to play it safe and get a higher score.

 

Now the CDC is claiming poverty. They no longer keep their regular 6-month inspection schedules, making it more likely that they will show up when we do not expect them.

This decreases the chances of getting a perfect 100 score.

But it does NOT increase the chances of a ship gettting caught with so many technical issues like those on Veendam.

 

Incidentally, the ships that do get more of the 100 scores also tend to be the ones with the greatest number of norovirus outbreaks - but not for the reasons you might guess.

 

Newer ships tend to be better built for USPH standards, so it is easier for them to get those higher scores.

Newer ships tend to be larger and more popular; higher numbers of passengers increase the chances of NLV outbreaks.

Newer ships typically sail from North American ports, where NLV percentages in the population are higher.

 

As ships get older, renovations and upgrades often violate USPH technical standards, making it more likely they will lose points

[serendipity1499]

We did the repositioning from Buenos Aires. I was on the ship for 31 days and really did not have any problems nor did I hear of many complaints. The only place that I noticed that was warm was the casino. That was good. I stayed away and saved money. LOL. The ship appeared clean and we had no plumbing or AC issues in our stateroom.

Terri

 

Thanks Terri..We were on it several years ago & loved our cruise...Like you had no problems, but the problems have seemed to spring up in the last several months..

It's a shame..

Betty

[sail7seas]

The Vessel Sanitation Program requires 2 surprise inspections per year for all non-US Flag ships that call at US Ports.

The VSP Program ends their year on 31 October.

All surprise VSP inspections must take place in US Ports.

The inspectors require a port call of at least 4 hours to perform the inspection.

That's as much as we know.

 

Until a few years ago, the inspections were like clockwork.

Although we did not know exactly when they would come, we could predict a one-month window when they were most likely come to inspect us. During this 30-day window, we would have all F&B crew working many overtime hours, keeping the ships up to the incredibly high USPH standards. But we cannot keep this up for very long periods. It really wears down the crew.

 

Technically speaking it is impossible for a ship to get the 100 perfect score that we all aim for.

Many of the things we do on cruise ships are not allowed by the Vessel Sanitation program:

 

Scrambling whole eggs, setting tables more than 4 hours before a meal, putting unwrapped butter on dining tables, preparing food in dimly lit places like dining rooms, using food from dented cans, having a buffet BBQ under an open sky, serving a rare steak, staff changing diapers in the child-care center, serving fresh oysters, making sushi with cold rice, waiters delivering a birthday cake with candles but no fire extinguisher, finding a live housefly in the dining room - all will result in points deducted and possible failure on the inspection.

 

So if we can guess more or less when the inspection will be taking place, we change many of our procedures for a month or so to play it safe and get a higher score.

 

Now the CDC is claiming poverty. They no longer keep their regular 6-month inspection schedules, making it more likely that they will show up when we do not expect them.

This decreases the chances of getting a perfect 100 score.

But it does NOT increase the chances of a ship gettting caught with so many technical issues like those on Veendam.

 

Thanks, so much.

 

Gives us a better perspective on the procedure and near impossibly high standards.

 

[BruceMuzz]

Bruce, I too thank you for your post & understand what you are saying, but as Kazu mentioned you can't compare a cruise to McDonald's, or the Olive Garden..Eating once or twice in 6 months at McDonald's or Olive Garden is completely different than spending a week to several months on a cruise ship eating, sleeping & playing 24/7.

However, what really is amazing to me is how can a ship get a 93 in April & then get a 77 in Aug..

Why as others have said, doesn't HAL pull a ship out of service to correct these many infractions..Who is responsible for this terrible score..Is it the Captain's or the Hotel Mgr's fault or does the fault lie with Corporate Headquarters.

HAL might be booked, but why should Psgrs who pay good money be subjected to AC & Toilets not working in addition to hearing about a terrible score from the CDC...The days of keeping secrets are over..Sooner or later, with the Internet being so popular, more & more Psgrs will find out the problems plaguing this ship..Also, if the media gets wind of this, HAL will have more of a problem than cancelling a couple of 7 day cruises to get the ship back in good condition..

Again Thanks for your input..

JMO...:)Betty

 

Betty,

 

Comparing land based health departments to the VSP inspections is not really fair.

The VSP is light years ahead of their land-based counterparts.

 

But what is the real purpose of having health inspections?

If it is protecting public health, the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program has been very successful. The VSP program has forced cruise lines to properly educate their F&B employees to maintain safe food handling procedures. Food-based illness outbreaks on cruise ships is nearly unheard of.

Even ships that get poor scores very rarely have any food-based illnesses.

 

Land-based health inspections in America are a joke. The inspectors rarely have proper education and experience. Third World entry-level dishwashers on my ship are far more qualified to be health inspectors than the people who are responsible to keep you alive when you eat at McDonalds.

 

It is important that the ice machine is not leaking onto the deck during the 7 days you are dining 21 (or more) times on my ship. But that leak will probably not affect your health - unless you take a galley tour and slip and fall on the wet deck.

 

But visit a McDonalds or other American fast food restaurant. I guarantee that most of the staff and management working there has no idea about safe food handling temperatures or procedures. The inspector who passed them also had very few clues as to what can make you sick or kill you.

They are using the fresh eggs that we cannot, inviting salmonella contamination.

They are serving the fresh fish and shellfish that we cannot, inviting parasites.

They store dirty pots and pans right next to the clean ones; cross contamination.

They rarely wear gloves when handling ready to eat foods; cross contamination.

Foods are stored at dangerous temperatures for illegal periods dangerous bacterial growth.

Dairy, meat, poultry, and fish are stored and prepared together, inviting cross-contamination.

Food service items are sanitized at illegally low temperatures; dangerous bacterial growth.

Cleaning is done with dirty rags and ineffective chemicals; dangerous bacterial growth.

Most land-based restaurant managers do not even know what a backflow preventer is and have never seen one; ships must have one on every water source. Lack of backflow preventers risks potable water contamination.

 

The differences between ship-based sanitation and land-based sanitation is so large that the food cleanliness standards recommended by the American Hotel and Motel Association are considered illegal by the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program. That is shocking.

 

You need eat in one of these restaurants only once to risk your health or your life.

But these restaurants really do not have to answer to anyone if something goes wrong.

It is very difficult to prove that your case of food poisoning came from any particular restaurant that is not on a ship.

 

So if we are considering YOUR health, we can indeed compare ships and land based restaurants.

If we are considering public opinion and profits, we can be comfortable in looking only at ships.

[CoronaCRZR]

Thanks, so much.

 

Gives us a better perspective on the procedure and near impossibly high standards.

 

 

 

Sail7, Not sure what you mean by that, but those are the standards for all the inspections, and when you get a low one like the Veendam got it surely means the ship has got some serious issues....

[TiogaCruiser]

I have only read a portion of the report ( so far) but what bothers me most is the documentation of both staff AND management doing the wrong thing with dishware. Staff should know what to do and do it; managers should know what to do and ensure their staff does the right thing. And these occurances were in front of the inspectors!

[Salacia]

Betty,

 

Comparing land based health departments to the VSP inspections is not really fair.

The VSP is light years ahead of their land-based counterparts.

 

But what is the real purpose of having health inspections?

If it is protecting public health, the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program has been very successful. The VSP program has forced cruise lines to properly educate their F&B employees to maintain safe food handling procedures. Food-based illness outbreaks on cruise ships is nearly unheard of.

Even ships that get poor scores very rarely have any food-based illnesses.

 

Land-based health inspections in America are a joke. The inspectors rarely have proper education and experience. Third World entry-level dishwashers on my ship are far more qualified to be health inspectors than the people who are responsible to keep you alive when you eat at McDonalds.

 

It is important that the ice machine is not leaking onto the deck during the 7 days you are dining 21 (or more) times on my ship. But that leak will probably not affect your health - unless you take a galley tour and slip and fall on the wet deck.

 

But visit a McDonalds or other American fast food restaurant. I guarantee that most of the staff and management working there has no idea about safe food handling temperatures or procedures. The inspector who passed them also had very few clues as to what can make you sick or kill you.

They are using the fresh eggs that we cannot, inviting salmonella contamination.

They are serving the fresh fish and shellfish that we cannot, inviting parasites.

They store dirty pots and pans right next to the clean ones; cross contamination.

They rarely wear gloves when handling ready to eat foods; cross contamination.

Foods are stored at dangerous temperatures for illegal periods dangerous bacterial growth.

Dairy, meat, poultry, and fish are stored and prepared together, inviting cross-contamination.

Food service items are sanitized at illegally low temperatures; dangerous bacterial growth.

Cleaning is done with dirty rags and ineffective chemicals; dangerous bacterial growth.

Most land-based restaurant managers do not even know what a backflow preventer is and have never seen one; ships must have one on every water source. Lack of backflow preventers risks potable water contamination.

 

The differences between ship-based sanitation and land-based sanitation is so large that the food cleanliness standards recommended by the American Hotel and Motel Association are considered illegal by the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program. That is shocking.

 

You need eat in one of these restaurants only once to risk your health or your life.

But these restaurants really do not have to answer to anyone if something goes wrong.

It is very difficult to prove that your case of food poisoning came from any particular restaurant that is not on a ship.

 

So if we are considering YOUR health, we can indeed compare ships and land based restaurants.

If we are considering public opinion and profits, we can be comfortable in looking only at ships.

 

Hi BruceMuzz. Thanks for your interesting post. While I don't disagree with your comments about standards in some restaurants (I know nothing about fast food outlets), there is a distinct difference between a meal in a restaurant, and dining on a cruise ship: in a restaurant, you eat and leave. On a cruise ship, you are a captive audience: the same conditions in the galley apply during your voyage; hence, it very important that standards be inforced on a cruise ship, especially considering the spread of illness at ports of call.

I worked in restaurants in my youth, and I have sailed on cruise ships as a passenger. No doubt about it, there are risks, but ultimately we decide which risk we are willing take every time we walk out the door.

Cheers, S.

Edited to add: Personally, I feel that I got snookered on the amount of money I paid for my Aug 19 voyage on ms Veendam. I won't make that mistake again.

[E-500]

I read a good part of the full report. As suggested here a number of the items were of a technical nature, that probably did not impact human health directly.

 

The ones that stood out that do impact food safety were the areas that involved improper refridgeration, no working units, just standby jury rigged units. This screams deferred maintainance. At least two venues that were inspected noted that all the installed units were not working.

 

Statements that supervisors/senior managers failed to notice and correct certain conditions until directed to do so by the inspector also are a concern. This is a leadership issue and leadership starts at the top at the bridge level.

 

This is not the HAL corporate culture as indicated by the scores of other ships in the fleet. The captain and hotel manager are in the crosshairs on this one and rightfully so.

[cccole]

On Noordam in Dec, see she scored 99, so thats great. We were on Veendam in Dec, ship was clean, food was VG, we did a 17 N BA to Santiago including Antarctica.

 

It was extremely hot in BA and Montevideo and the AC was fine(just 9 months ago).

 

However upon leaving BA we did sideswipe a container ship, ( the container ship was stationery) taking out 30feet of the rail on the top deck, smash 2 windows in the crows nest bar, and apparently the Captain kept on going trying to get the " hell out of Dodge" . We were apprehended, so to speak, by the Argentinian coastguard and held in BA overnight, until their was an "investigation" of sorts. HAL denied any wrongdoing, I am not so sure. I think money talks in Argentina, but that is just my opinion.

t

I think HAL did not relish the thought of refunding 2000 people 17 night fare over Xmas and New Year on an expensive Antarctic itinerary and then paying for us all to return home,and likely a big discount on a future cruise.

 

Other than this small wrinkle, we had a great sailing on Veendam. I would not sail again for 17 nights on a ship that size. Eurodam is the perfect ship in my opinion, and she is my fave of all ships in all cruise lines.

 

HAL does most things well, but I am mystified by their lack of maintenance on some ships.

The pricing is above their competition, so passengers do expect that they at least pass inspection.

 

What an experience. If you're driving a car it's called "hit and run" and not looked upon kindly by law enforcement. I'm surprised that the same captain is still a captain. Sounds like everything worked o.k. for all passengers but...what an experience. Cherie

[Salacia]

I read a good part of the full report. As suggested here a number of the items were of a technical nature, that probably did not impact human health directly.

 

The ones that stood out that do impact food safety were the areas that involved improper refridgeration, no working units, just standby jury rigged units. This screams deferred maintainance. At least two venues that were inspected noted that all the installed units were not working.

 

Statements that supervisors/senior managers failed to notice and correct certain condition until directed to do so by the inspector also are a concern. This is a leadership issue and leadership starts at the top at the bridge level.

 

This is not the HAL corporate culture as indicated by the scores of other ships in the fleet. The captain and hotel manager are in the crosshairs on this one and rightfully so.

 

But human health (can't speak for other species) was direclty effected by several issues when I was onboard the Veendam Aug 19 voyage. No need for me to repeat the issues as they have be enumerated on various threads. Just my opinion, but as a CCL stockholder, I hold Mr. Arison and the rest of the board responsible - like they care. -S.

[E-500]

But human health (can't speak for other species) was direclty effected by several issues when I was onboard the Veendam Aug 19 voyage. No need for me to repeat the issues as they have be enumerated on various threads. Just my opinion, but as a CCL stockholder, I hold Mr. Arison and the rest of the board responsible - like they care. -S.

 

I don't disagree with you. If at the corporate level these issues are not addressed and people held accountable the shareholders have every right to be upset and voice their opinions.

[Salacia]

I don't disagree with you. If at the corporate level these issues are not addressed and people held accountable the shareholders have every right to be upset and voice their opinions.

 

Thanks. BTW, this might be of interest:

 

Published: Tuesday, Sep. 18, 2012 - 9:33 am

 

MIAMI, Sept. 18, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Carnival Corporation & plc's (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK) Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer Howard Frank has scheduled a conference call with analysts for 10 a.m. (EDT); 3 p.m. (BST), Tuesday, September 25, 2012, to discuss the company's third quarter financial results which are expected to be released that morning.

A simulcast of the call will be available via the company's Web sites at www.carnivalcorp.com and www.carnivalplc.com.

SOURCE Carnival Corporation

[vicocala]

And now they have a norovirus problem. Not good. This is going to be my first trip on HAL for a few years. I will be keeping my eye out and hopefully my food in. :rolleyes:

[DizzyDallasDi]

. . . Many of the things we do on cruise ships are not allowed by the Vessel Sanitation program:

 

Scrambling whole eggs . .

 

Can you scramble half eggs? Sorry, my smart alec personality made me ask this. :D

 

Many of the things we do on cruise ships are not allowed by the Vessel Sanitation program:

 

. . . serving a rare steak . . .

 

That's crazy talk! I like my steak rare. Won't eat it any other way.

 

No wonder so many people complain about the food on cruise ships -- the VSP is dictating unreasonable cooking standards; presumably in the interest of the passengers' health. It's a no win situation.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Thanks. BTW, this might be of interest:

 

Published: Tuesday, Sep. 18, 2012 - 9:33 am

 

MIAMI, Sept. 18, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Carnival Corporation & plc's (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK) Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer Howard Frank has scheduled a conference call with analysts for 10 a.m. (EDT); 3 p.m. (BST), Tuesday, September 25, 2012, to discuss the company's third quarter financial results which are expected to be released that morning.

A simulcast of the call will be available via the company's Web sites at www.carnivalcorp.com and www.carnivalplc.com.

SOURCE Carnival Corporation

 

If you need a nap, this would be a call to listen to. I'm forced to attend my CEO's quarterly calls with the Wall Street analysts and they are all canned, lawyer-approved, marketing-written snoozers.

[Salacia]

If you need a nap, this would be a call to listen to. I'm forced to attend my CEO's quarterly calls with the Wall Street analysts and they are all canned, lawyer-approved, marketing-written snoozers.

 

LOL, I get what you're saying. They bore everyone to death, and hope no one will listen. Maybe stockholders will listen, and respond accordingly. Let's see what happens after the call. Cheers, -S.

[serendipity1499]

Thanks, so much.

 

Gives us a better perspective on the procedure and near impossibly high standards.

 

Sail..Agree Bruce Muzz gives a better perspective, but come on, think you have to wake up & smell the coffee:D..."near impossibly high standards" as you put it is pure hyperbole..If they were so impossibly high then others ships, which belong to many lines, not only HAL's Veendam, would have lowered scores too..If others can attain a score of 90 & above, then so should the Veendam..Sorry, but IMO your excuse just doesn't cut it..:D

 

Betty,

 

Comparing land based health departments to the VSP inspections is not really fair.

The VSP is light years ahead of their land-based counterparts.

 

But what is the real purpose of having health inspections?

If it is protecting public health, the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program has been very successful. The VSP program has forced cruise lines to properly educate their F&B employees to maintain safe food handling procedures. Food-based illness outbreaks on cruise ships is nearly unheard of.

Even ships that get poor scores very rarely have any food-based illnesses.

 

Land-based health inspections in America are a joke. The inspectors rarely have proper education and experience. Third World entry-level dishwashers on my ship are far more qualified to be health inspectors than the people who are responsible to keep you alive when you eat at McDonalds.

 

It is important that the ice machine is not leaking onto the deck during the 7 days you are dining 21 (or more) times on my ship. But that leak will probably not affect your health - unless you take a galley tour and slip and fall on the wet deck.

 

But visit a McDonalds or other American fast food restaurant. I guarantee that most of the staff and management working there has no idea about safe food handling temperatures or procedures. The inspector who passed them also had very few clues as to what can make you sick or kill you.

They are using the fresh eggs that we cannot, inviting salmonella contamination.

They are serving the fresh fish and shellfish that we cannot, inviting parasites.

They store dirty pots and pans right next to the clean ones; cross contamination.

They rarely wear gloves when handling ready to eat foods; cross contamination.

Foods are stored at dangerous temperatures for illegal periods dangerous bacterial growth.

Dairy, meat, poultry, and fish are stored and prepared together, inviting cross-contamination.

Food service items are sanitized at illegally low temperatures; dangerous bacterial growth.

Cleaning is done with dirty rags and ineffective chemicals; dangerous bacterial growth.

Most land-based restaurant managers do not even know what a backflow preventer is and have never seen one; ships must have one on every water source. Lack of backflow preventers risks potable water contamination.

 

The differences between ship-based sanitation and land-based sanitation is so large that the food cleanliness standards recommended by the American Hotel and Motel Association are considered illegal by the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program. That is shocking.

 

You need eat in one of these restaurants only once to risk your health or your life.

But these restaurants really do not have to answer to anyone if something goes wrong.

It is very difficult to prove that your case of food poisoning came from any particular restaurant that is not on a ship.

 

So if we are considering YOUR health, we can indeed compare ships and land based restaurants.

If we are considering public opinion and profits, we can be comfortable in looking only at ships.

 

Thanks so much for your post & I understand your point..Agree with you when you say, the crew can just do so much before they become worn out..They all really work very hard & guess the economy may just have a lot to do with it..Even though DBA insisted that there have not been cuts in staff, I don't believe it..

 

On our Nieuw Amsterdam cruise, which we enjoyed I stopped ordering soup, because it was never hot, & I really enjoy having hot soup at dinner..:(.Finally our Steward asked me why I stopped ordering soup & I had to tell him why..He promised to get me Hot soup from then on & he did get it Hot each night..But I felt so sorry for our Waiters & do believe in my heart that they just had too many tables to wait on..Our Cabin Stewards also worked just as hard on more cabins than they used to have..:(

 

And really do understand your concern about the CDC & their surprises, but still don't understand how the Veendam could go from a 93 in April to a 77 in Aug..I'm sure other ships had surprise inspections, but most remain at 90 or above, with one other excception..It just doesn't make sense to me & wonder why other ships don't have such low scores!

 

Now beginning to wonder if the CDC Inspectors read these CC threads, & have been following our remarks about the Veendam's AC & Toilet problems.. Perhaps that's why they pulled a surprise inspection in Aug, rather than in Oct..

 

I sincerely hope the Veendam gets better soon!:)

 

Thanks again Bruce, for your most informative explanations..

 

Cheers...:)Betty