Another reason why cruise cancellation policies need to change

[songbird1329]

You had plenty of time to cancel without penalty.

 

If you booked early saver, that was YOUR risk, and you lose $50 per person and can rebook another cruise with the rest of your deposits/money.

 

I hope Carnival doesn't bend at all on this JMO

 

We're adults, we're educated, we knew the risks. We have insurance. I told him to cancel the day the school board announced the change in schedule, he thought the union would veto it. Union president huffed and ouffed but ultimately bowed in the face of the inevitable.

 

 

Honestly, though, most corporations doing business in the NY/NJ area are making the goodwill gesture and helping their customers who have been affected by Sandy. They seem to be falling all over each other trying to prove who is the kindest and most compassionate. There's an Allstate ad where . . .well, you get the idea.

 

 

Pity Carnival is being pennywise and dollar foolish over this.

 

 

 

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[broberts]

In the case of Sandy and other similar disasters I don't see why cruise lines couldn't give people in affected areas who wish to cancel a credit good for a year or so, with say a $50 processing fee. While it would cost a bit, the goodwill generated might make up for any loss.

 

In the general case of cancellation and to all those who suggest that a cruise line is not a charity, etc. Cruise lines very often, I'd suggest more often than not, turn around and resell the cabin. So in fact the cruise line (airlines do it too) are actually selling the same thing twice. This is of course the ideal of capitalism, but hardly fair or reasonable for consumers. Seems to me that it would be fair if a cruise line reimbursed people a significant portion of the fare in the event that their cancelled cabin was resold.

[RuthlessBoss]

I'm pretty sure the OP was referring more to the fact that the lack of break was caused by sandy, and that's why a refund should be allowed. And carnival does offer refund insurance, and there may be stipulations, but it is 100%

The insurance isn't even required, they've had time to cancel way before final payment was due!

[sharecruises]

Theres a good reason....where would it stop if they give special consideration to "Sandy:??

 

There have been...and will be...other natural disasters, storms, hurricanes, floods, wildfires, earthquakes, etc

 

Since the teachers could cancel without penalty anyhow, what is the big deal? I don't get it.

[pe4all]

My significant other is a teacher on Long Island and we have a cruise booked for February break. His district has cancelled February break and we are currently dealing with this issue. His union actualky did a survey of employees who have nonrefundable deposits. Teachers get sick days and personal days but must vacation only when school is out. He's used all his sick days, so fudging isn't even an option. He can't afford to take a week off without pay even if allowed to do so. We are dealing with a mess we never anticipated.

 

 

The couple we planned to cruise with is pulling their son out of school and taking the cruise. Easier for them.

 

 

It's a massive problem created by Sandy. Carnival would earn considerable brownie points from me if they'd make it easy for us to cancel and rebook. I'd be more inclined to cruise with them again.

 

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If your SO teaches on Long Island (as I do) I am sure he gets 12 sick days and 3 personal days per year. And the sick and personals get rolled over from year to year. It is only November - and he has used up all 15 days alloted for this year? That is VERY unfortunate. I hope he stays healthy the rest of the year. As you also said, I am sure the district will allow him to take the time, but "dock" him. Since Feb. is still a few months away, and he would be off that Monday for President's Day anyway, that is only 4 days he would be docked. Can he/you begin pulling money from each paycheck now to "cover" those four days without pay? You would have literally 3 months to save. Something to think about, instead of cancelling your anticipated cruise...

[Chigirlcruzin]

We're adults, we're educated, we knew the risks. We have insurance. I told him to cancel the day the school board announced the change in schedule, he thought the union would veto it. Union president huffed and ouffed but ultimately bowed in the face of the inevitable.

 

 

Honestly, though, most corporations doing business in the NY/NJ area are making the goodwill gesture and helping their customers who have been affected by Sandy. They seem to be falling all over each other trying to prove who is the kindest and most compassionate. There's an Allstate ad where . . .well, you get the idea.

 

 

Pity Carnival is being pennywise and dollar foolish over this.

 

 

 

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First off, I'm very sorry for all those that have had Sandy impact their lives in some way.

 

That said, this falls squarely on your SO. He made the decision not to cancel when he could do so without penalty, and now Carnival is being dollar foolish? I'm sorry, but he should have listened to you. You had the opportunity to get out without penalty but chose to not take it.

 

As a PP stated, where does it end? It would be Sandy for this case, but what next? It creates a slippery slope.

 

I would agree some special consideration should be made if Sandy happened within the cancellation window.

[bucks724]

Someone is dollar foolish here, but it's not Carnival. You had time to cancel without penalty and CHOSE to wait on the hope that the decision would get overturned. I say you played a bad hand and lost. I guess Carnical should reimburse you for money you lose in the casino too because you thought you would hit the jackpot.

 

You made a grown up decision to play the odds and lost. Now be a grown up and live with it. Sorry, but you had more than one solution and chose to wait and hope and how you're crying foul. I don't sympathize.

[GHDPeter]

healthinsurance companies, banks, transit authorities, etc, are not charitable organizations either, but they were able to treat their cusomters with respect and make exceptions to their usual policies in a time of crisis. Why should cruise lines be the only exception? Also, the employer that I work with is not a charitable organization either, but they treated us employees with respect during a time of crisis.

 

 

Not one of these businesses actually offers a tangible product, they are services or electronic products & services.

The cruise lines have physical fixed costs associated with their business.

Yes unexpected issues arrise but that is what life is all about, the problem that I see on this forum and through out most of the 1st/western world is that too many people want some one else to pay for their lack of planning and their lack of responsibility of their own actions.

I was in NYC in 2006 when a blizzard shut the city and the airports down, it was an act of nature that no one was responsible for, I had to make do the best I could and put into play contingency plans to keep going on my travels.

 

I see on these discussion group people constantly expecting the cruise companies to compensate or make special allowances for events outside their control. Just get on and enjoy what you have. Half way around the world children are being killed in a war that they have nothing to do with. Stop your complaining and get on with your life, be grateful that you have the chance to go cruising and that you are not one of the crew who works 15 hrs a day 7 days a week, 8 months of the year on a ship full of passengers whose only concern is how to get their cruise for free.

 

There you go, my rant is complete. Fire away!

[PAPERBKWRITER]

Yes, you can get 100% refund with a "cancel for any reason" clause. When cruising in February, that's something that should be seriously considered as many times, there are snowstorms, flight cancelations and other reasons why young, healthy people are unable to board a ship.

 

I am very sorry for those affected by the hurricane. Disasters happen all the time: fires, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Which disaster should cruise lines make an exception? Insurance is for the unexpected, not just medical. It's always a gamble whether you'll need it or not.

 

Many people regard cruise insurance as just another scam or the equivalent to an appliance warranty. Unlike warranties, when you cruise, your potential financial liability increases exponentially. Don't leave home without it. And don't forget to make sure you have "cancel for any reason."

 

Just curious, Pam. I see you have taken 40 cruises but never on Carnival. Since you are posting here I wonder if you are planning one...Also IMO I agree with most posters here that life is a risk and that the cruise line has no responsibility, moral or other to refund cruise fares because of weather. I was in NY recently and saw first hand the mess the storm made and do have sympathy for the victims.

[RuthlessBoss]

If your SO teaches on Long Island (as I do) I am sure he gets 12 sick days and 3 personal days per year. And the sick and personals get rolled over from year to year. It is only November - and he has used up all 15 days alloted for this year? That is VERY unfortunate. I hope he stays healthy the rest of the year. As you also said, I am sure the district will allow him to take the time, but "dock" him. Since Feb. is still a few months away, and he would be off that Monday for President's Day anyway, that is only 4 days he would be docked. Can he/you begin pulling money from each paycheck now to "cover" those four days without pay? You would have literally 3 months to save. Something to think about, instead of cancelling your anticipated cruise...

Seriously, if 4 days without pay can't be done, finances that tight, cancel the cruise. If not, then cancel an excursion or steakhouse date, DOD's etc. If you went cruising, I doubt you'd not spend a cent. Living expenses should not be that tight, and yet want to cruise.

[SeaShark]

Its interesting that it is presumed that the cruise cancellation is due to Hurricane Sandy when, in fact, it is not.

 

 

The cancellation is not because of the hurricane, it is because the school district changed their schedule.

 

Had the school district picked other days outside of the February dates, we would not be having this discussion.

 

Now...some might want to try to establish a relationship among events to transfer the blame. For example, they will say that Hurricane Sandy caused school to be cancelled, the school district had to schedule make up days, and these are the days for the February cruise....therefore, Hurricane Sandy is the cause of the cruise cancellation. While this might "seem" to make sense, you could further argue that the school district only changed the schedule to keep in compliance with the education laws, so therefore, the law is responsible for cancelling the cruise. And you could just keep going on and on and on with this absurdity.

 

The bottom line here is that a school district (or districts) changed their schedule. "Why" they changed the schedule doesn't matter. As a result people have to be adults and deal with the terms of any legal contracts they entered into for the affected period. If the change in the schedule negatively affects you, it isn't right to just assume that someone else will take the financial hit for you.

 

 

I think that most of us understand the situation. However, it is going to be difficult to give that understanding to the 47% of the people in this country who think that somebody else should bear the responsibility for their situation.

 

 

 

 

[songbird1329]

If your SO teaches on Long Island (as I do) I am sure he gets 12 sick days and 3 personal days per year. And the sick and personals get rolled over from year to year. It is only November - and he has used up all 15 days alloted for this year? That is VERY unfortunate. I hope he stays healthy the rest of the year. As you also said, I am sure the district will allow him to take the time, but "dock" him. Since Feb. is still a few months away, and he would be off that Monday for President's Day anyway, that is only 4 days he would be docked. Can he/you begin pulling money from each paycheck now to "cover" those four days without pay? You would have literally 3 months to save. Something to think about, instead of cancelling your anticipated cruise...

 

He is currently recovering from surgery. Used up all his sick days. Hasn't been able to bank sick days because of health issues in previous years.

 

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[songbird1329]

In the case of Sandy and other similar disasters I don't see why cruise lines couldn't give people in affected areas who wish to cancel a credit good for a year or so, with say a $50 processing fee. While it would cost a bit, the goodwill generated might make up for any loss.

 

In the general case of cancellation and to all those who suggest that a cruise line is not a charity, etc. Cruise lines very often, I'd suggest more often than not, turn around and resell the cabin. So in fact the cruise line (airlines do it too) are actually selling the same thing twice. This is of course the ideal of capitalism, but hardly fair or reasonable for consumers. Seems to me that it would be fair if a cruise line reimbursed people a significant portion of the fare in the event that their cancelled cabin was resold.

 

Good point. If you call a restaurant and place an order for takeout, but don't pick it up, the restaurant loses. If you cancel a cruise and they rebook your cabin, the cruise line profits from your misery.

 

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[nitro2448]

The insurance isn't even required, they've had time to cancel way before final payment was due!

 

I didn't say it was required, matter a fact I never get it.

[songbird1329]

First off, I'm very sorry for all those that have had Sandy impact their lives in some way.

 

That said, this falls squarely on your SO. He made the decision not to cancel when he could do so without penalty, and now Carnival is being dollar foolish? I'm sorry, but he should have listened to you. You had the opportunity to get out without penalty but chose to not take it.

 

As a PP stated, where does it end? It would be Sandy for this case, but what next? It creates a slippery slope.

 

I would agree some special consideration should be made if Sandy happened within the cancellation window.

 

As I said, pennywise and dollar foolish.

 

 

Goid will is an asset. When a business is bought or sold, the assets are given value, and the intangible "good will" is considered.

 

My point is that the amount of good will the corporation would reap, in terms of future bookings, far exceeds any amounts it will earn from cancelled bookings.

 

 

Most companies around here are at least pretending to be sympathetic. This was a 100 year storm, not an ordinary hurricane or blizzard.

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[songbird1329]

And to the person who suggested losing 4 days pay -- the amount we might lose on deposits is significantly less than what he earns.

 

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[pe4all]

He is currently recovering from surgery. Used up all his sick days. Hasn't been able to bank sick days because of health issues in previous years.

 

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Unfortunately, I had a feeling it was something like that. Wishing him a speedy recovery.:) Just to let you know - if he has Empire, there is a "leave with pay at 70% option he can look into. Several teachers in my district have taken that option.

[Gailerina]

It seems the OP started a discussion that he knows the answer to but thought he could change the situation to get others to agree but it has failed.

 

educators should know the risks of planning anything during the school year. anything can happen that would change breaks.

 

we all take a risk planning our cruises. I planned mine in February for this coming January. I just got a promotion at work and had it been a different department my vacation could have been at risk at some companies. thankfully my company does not work that way.

 

it seems to me people want to be able to cancel for any reason up until the day the ship sales and get every red cent back.

 

I'm sorry.... my cruises should not increase in price because of someone not getting insurance or dealing with life!

[Brenna's Mom1]

Less than 1% of the population of the area affected by Hurricane Sandy were impacted financially. Yes, they were inconvenienced and they may have lost power and for some a mode of transportation to get them to work but 99% didn't loose their homes or cars or tangible assets. And I've seen school districts change their schedule for lots of reasons: teacher strikes, flu outbreaks, snow days.

 

The "only" reason that I see for a pre-paid vacation to be refundable is for a person to have lost their home or have their residence inhabitable during the time of a cruise....and for most people this is covered by their own respective homeowners and renters insurance.

 

I get a little tired, myself, of people using a well known occurrence as the basis for them getting "something" when they weren't even impacted by, say a storm, to the detriment of their lives. I think the original OPs post was flawed from the beginning and no amount of back tracking can make it viable. To others that are coming up with a million "excuses" why the changing of the school schedule is, apparently, Carnival's (or any cruiselines fault) and that they have no alternative but to blame said lines over the loss of "maybe" a hundred bucks I find pretty pathetic.

[ItsAllAboutTheSass]

As I said, pennywise and dollar foolish.

 

 

Goid will is an asset. When a business is bought or sold, the assets are given value, and the intangible "good will" is considered.

 

My point is that the amount of good will the corporation would reap, in terms of future bookings, far exceeds any amounts it will earn from cancelled bookings.

 

 

Most companies around here are at least pretending to be sympathetic. This was a 100 year storm, not an ordinary hurricane or blizzard.

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Here in lies the differences. 1) Carnival doesn't need to extend good will. Their ships sail full. If you no longer decide to sail Carnival because of this, it isn't going to hurt their bottom line. 2) You say "around here". Your ship sails out of Florida, so "around here" is irrelevant.

[bucks724]

Its interesting that it is presumed that the cruise cancellation is due to Hurricane Sandy when, in fact, it is not.

 

 

The cancellation is not because of the hurricane, it is because the school district changed their schedule.

 

 

It doesn't matter which way you look at it, the law is always in place. Logically, Hurricane Sandy was the root cause of the make up days being what they are. It could have been anything (snow, hurricane, fire at the school in question, etc.), but regardless, had Hurricane Sandy not hit and forced school to cancel, this would be a non-issue. Therefore, the cruise cancellation IS a result of Hurricane Sandy - be it proximate or direct, it is a result of the occurrence itself.

 

Unless you would like for people to blame her SO for the fact that he didn't bank days that he was given because of his illness, surgery and recovery time for the fact that he doesn't have enough days to take off. Regardless of what the reason is, I disagree that a special concession should be made for this particular circumstance. I feel for them, I am sorry that they were in the path of the hurricane, I'm sorry that they planned a vacation and (for whatever reason) it has to be canceled. However, I fail to see how any of this is Carnival's fault and why they should have to bear the loss (real or potential). Travel insurance, if purchased, would have prevented this whole discussion. Canceling when it was a *possibility* that the cruise would overlap with the break that was taken away was another solution. So after all of this, why would a business assume the responsibility for refunding money?

 

I am not a fan of spending an extra $100+ for insurance that I may or may not need, but guess what? I do. And this is why. I pay it on my vehicle because it's required by law, but even if it wasn't, I would still have it. I don't want to be put at risk of losing more than I have to because of things within or outside of my control.

 

Sorry - I think the policy is fine the way it is. And yes, I think it sucks in most circumstances. But there is no clear cut way to draw a line and for that reason, I say they shouldn't.

[Chigirlcruzin]

As I said, pennywise and dollar foolish.

 

 

Goid will is an asset. When a business is bought or sold, the assets are given value, and the intangible "good will" is considered.

 

My point is that the amount of good will the corporation would reap, in terms of future bookings, far exceeds any amounts it will earn from cancelled bookings.

 

 

Most companies around here are at least pretending to be sympathetic. This was a 100 year storm, not an ordinary hurricane or blizzard.

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I'm sorry, but this situation is 100% your (or your SO's fault). I would agree with you IF you hadn't had the opportunity to cancel without penalty, but you did, and you chose to gamble. You lost, and instead of taking responsibility, you're expecting Carnival to hold the bag.

 

I'm sorry you're in this situation. However, this was a risk you (your SO) took when you decided to wait and see if the union would get the decision to hold school during Feb break overturned.

 

I do wish your SO a speedy recovery. I'm sure he needs the vacation.

[westview1]

In NY schools are required to be open 180 days, however, NY State Dept of Education added a clause to the guidelines that would exempt the districts from this due to extraordinary conditions. Here is a link to the guideline https://stateaid.nysed.gov/attendance/attendance_memo.htm scroll down to 3 Extraordinary Conditions. There are some school districts that are using this exception. I realize that not all districts are doing so, but it would be up to the individual school districts to make this decision. I have been in the position to having a cruise planned and not having the PTO due to an unforeseen circumstance - in my case I ended up in the hospital due to illness and had to use 5 days of leave. I was able to take my vacation with borrowed PTO from the next year, it's a shame the teachers unions can't negotiate this with the districts.

[SeaShark]

It doesn't matter which way you look at it, the law is always in place. Logically, Hurricane Sandy was the root cause of the make up days being what they are. It could have been anything (snow, hurricane, fire at the school in question, etc.), but regardless, had Hurricane Sandy not hit and forced school to cancel, this would be a non-issue. Therefore, the cruise cancellation IS a result of Hurricane Sandy - be it proximate or direct, it is a result of the occurrence itself.

 

 

Not picking on you directly, but this is exactly what i was talking about...trying to use causality to blame Hurricane Sandy.

 

It is faulty logic because you stop when you reach the answer that you want. You could easily extend the logic to say that it was the decision to move into that school district that caused the people to live there, that caused them to have kids enrolled in that school, etc, etc, etc...it never ends.

 

Doesn't matter how you slice this, the Hurricane caused closures might be the reason that the school district had to make up days (because of the law that requires them to do so), but the Hurricane did NOT cause them to pick THOSE particular days. They could have picked whatever they wanted and they choose February.

 

Remember, Hurricane Sandy affected everybody...without regard to borders, school districts, etc. The decision by the school district only affects those who live in and/or work for the district. So whose cruise is affected...everyones, or just those who live in and/or work for the district?

[bucks724]

True. But they can use their discretion (and did) as to when those days are made up. So still. Why is this Carnical's problem? Especially when they still had time to cancel with minimal penalty and chose not to?

 

I didn't take what you said as picking on me. I have a thicker skin than that! And just ask others are doing, you are pointing out a different point of view. :)