Another reason why cruise cancellation policies need to change

[nitro2448]

And before I hear the naysayers, a few examples:

 

 

In order to own a car you must buy insurance at state-mandated minimum limits of liabilty. In order to own a business you must provide your employees with wirker's compensation coverage.

 

 

My daughter goes to college. The school mandates that all students carry health insurance. Each student us automatically enrolled unless they opt out. Since my daughter is on my health plan, we opted out of her school's plan.

 

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Sorry but I never buy the insurance myself, I just take the risk. Why should I pay extra on my booking because you want the insurance ? Carnival is going to be extending their new alcohol drink package fleet wide before long, so should that be incorporated into the booking charge as well ? So even people who don't drink that much can help me by paying part of my drinking tab. As much as I would like it, I don't think that would be fair to them.

[broberts]

Why would I want Carnival to automatically charge me a higher rate for insurance when I can get it cheaper elsewhere myself? I would not appreciate having my options taken away from me just because some people cannot take responsibility for their actions when chosing to purchase insurance or not. We all have the option. If you don't take it then you take responsibility for the risk involved....simple as that.

 

You are making an assumption that I'm not sure is valid. If every cruise ticket Carnival sold included a cancellation insurance premium, i.e. 100% buy in, the pool would be so large that it is quite likely premiums would be substantially lower than today.

 

If Carnival did this with all sister lines it would comprise nearly 50% of all cruise tickets which would be a pool far larger than any insurance company could possible have. This would mean a much lower premium. Since the line still has to compete with other lines there would be pressure to keep the premium low.

 

I suspect that including insurance in every fare would be a marketing plus. It would attract more customers and I doubt it would cause the loss of any customers. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to see that if one company bundled cancellation insurance their competition would quickly follow.

[broberts]

Sorry but I never buy the insurance myself, I just take the risk. Why should I pay extra on my booking because you want the insurance ? Carnival is going to be extending their new alcohol drink package fleet wide before long, so should that be incorporated into the booking charge as well ? So even people who don't drink that much can help me by paying part of my drinking tab. As much as I would like it, I don't think that would be fair to them.

 

There is a huge difference between alcohol and trip cancellation. Every single person who buys a cruise ticket risks having to cancel their trip. The amount of risk may vary, but every single person has some amount of risk. Alcohol on the other hand is a life style choice. Some elect or are forced not to consume. So it the "risk" of those people consuming alcohol is in fact zero.

[spirit rev]

Had no idea that schools in New York closed for a week in February! Is that in addition to a Spring Break in March/April? My goodness, that' a lot of time off.quote]

 

Living in New York - many families look forward to the February school break to either hit the ski slopes or escape from the winter. Schools close then for practical reason, too - to help stop whatever illnesses might be going around.

 

It's understandable that having plans you were looking forward to yanked out from under you by weather or anything else is a disappointment. In this case it becomes an even bigger disappointment because of the disaster.

 

 

As far as cruise vacations and whether or not cruise lines should give a full refund in this situation - This storm hit before final cruise payments would have been due for most cruises, particularly ones from NYC. (I know my January cruise from NYC didn't have a final payment due until early November so third week of February would not even have final payment yet.) Some of the non-refundable vacations may be land based.

[Paul Bogle]

You are making an assumption that I'm not sure is valid. If every cruise ticket Carnival sold included a cancellation insurance premium, i.e. 100% buy in, the pool would be so large that it is quite likely premiums would be substantially lower than today.

 

If Carnival did this with all sister lines it would comprise nearly 50% of all cruise tickets which would be a pool far larger than any insurance company could possible have. This would mean a much lower premium. Since the line still has to compete with other lines there would be pressure to keep the premium low.

 

I suspect that including insurance in every fare would be a marketing plus. It would attract more customers and I doubt it would cause the loss of any customers. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to see that if one company bundled cancellation insurance their competition would quickly follow.

 

Premiums would not be zero, they would be some positive number added on to the fare. Passengers who do not want to buy insurance would find fares higher, albeit not necessarily as high as current fares plus insurance.

 

People who are concerned about risk can buy insurance and sleep well at night. The travel insurance market is very competitive. People who choose to self-insure should accept their loss when something happens.

 

Or are we bailout nation?

[Charles4515]

Not sure what the problem is. Final payment for most cruise lines is 70 days prior to departure. Cruise travel in February would be outside the final payment date, if by only a couple of days, so it probably hasn't been made yet. Simply cancel the cruise and get your deposit money back. Or am I missing something?

 

Right. Those affected by the added school days did have time to cancel before final payment and got their deposit back. I know of someone who did decide to cancel. They knew the added days was a possibility and unhappily it came to be but they did get their deposit back since final had not been made.

[broberts]

Premiums would not be zero, they would be some positive number added on to the fare. Passengers who do not want to buy insurance would find fares higher, albeit not necessarily as high as current fares plus insurance.

 

People who are concerned about risk can buy insurance and sleep well at night. The travel insurance market is very competitive. People who choose to self-insure should accept their loss when something happens.

 

Or are we bailout nation?

 

As I suggested, I think it would be a marketing advantage for a cruise line to do this. In oher words they would sell more cabins. Do you object to companies trying to improve their bottom line?

[Cruisin' Chick]

I would think the solution would be that the school districts be flexible (given the responses) and allow families with non-refundable vacations/plans be allowed to take homework packets on their trips or do some other kind of assignments. Considering there are "snow days make ups" scheduled (so that parents know not to schedule any trips at that time, it's reasonable for the schools to not expect people to reschedule outside of those days that were scheduled for a definite time off.

 

We don't have snow days here (unless you live in the mountain districts about 100 miles away) so vacations are pretty much set for the Los Angeles school districts. But in the past few years, furlough days for staff have been scheduled due to the budget crisis. This is the second or third year that the regular schools (other than some charters, which set their own calendars) have taken off the Monday thru Wednesday prior to Thanksgiving for furlough days.

 

A couple of weeks ago, the school board decided to give back the days due to a tax proposition passing on the state ballot. But it would be too late to require the schools to change last week's schedule, so it was decided to tack on the three days to the end of the school year (and that's after the state tests -- don't know if the Regent tests are the equivalent of our CSTs). On the Facebook page for our local board member, where she announces this, someone said no, cut short the winter break by three days. To me, that would be too soon -- if someone has a cruise or other vacation planned at that time, the trip would be paid for. At least with June, you're more likely to have more flexible plans, and the last few days of the school year are basically less academic (films, etc.). The only people messed up would be graduating students (but the schools could keep to the original dates to solve that).

[nitro2448]

There is a huge difference between alcohol and trip cancellation. Every single person who buys a cruise ticket risks having to cancel their trip. The amount of risk may vary, but every single person has some amount of risk. Alcohol on the other hand is a life style choice. Some elect or are forced not to consume. So it the "risk" of those people consuming alcohol is in fact zero.

 

No, there is absolutely no difference. Either way you are asking people to pay for something they do not want to pay for. Yes everyone who books a cruise runs the risk of having to cancel, but like I said, I take that chance, it is my option, and I should not be forced to pay for it so you can get it a little cheaper. If you want it then you get it, that is you 're option. I always book early saver anyway, so I won't get my money back. I can use all but $50 towards another cruise, but if I can't take a cruise in the allotted time, I lose it all. Should there be another change in policy so us who book ES are guaranteed to get our money back ? No, that's a risk we assume, by choice. We all have choices, nobody should be forced to pay extra for someone else's choice.

[nitro2448]

As I suggested, I think it would be a marketing advantage for a cruise line to do this. In oher words they would sell more cabins. Do you object to companies trying to improve their bottom line?

 

How do you know for sure they will sell more cabins ? Or are you just speculating ? Besides carnival pretty much sells most all their cabins.

[babsee101]

Why not change cruise dates to summer when both teachers and kids are out of school? From what I understand the cruise lines are fairly lenient when it comes to switching dates and it seems a far better option to losing some or all of the fare.

[cruiseco]

A couple of points. First, third-party insurance that addresses this exact situation is available (this example is from CSA although others can be found) and those choosing to cruise with school-age children should definitely consider it. And, no, you do not have to purchase any additional "Cancel For Any Reason" benefit at a higher premium to get this coverage.

 

"l. the primary or secondary school where you or your

traveling Family Member or Traveling Companion

attend(s) must extend its operating session beyond its

predefined school year, due to unforeseeable events

commencing during the policy effective period, which

cause the extension of the predefined school year and

the travel dates for the Covered Trip fall within the

period of the school year extension. Extensions due to

extra-curricular or athletic events are not covered;"

 

Second. everyone concedes this situation is not covered by most cruise line-offered plans so at best the client would be able to use the "cancel for any reason" benefit many also include, although they would only receive a portion of the penalty amount refunded as a future cruise credit, usually in the amount of 75% of the penalty amount.

 

So what's being proposed is to include this insurance plan's premium in the fare -- basically making its purchase mandatory for all passengers. It does not cover what needs to be covered in this case so the solution is to shove this uselessness down everyone's throat? Make everyone have a policy that doesn't work? This, of course would be the end result -- who's going to buy the third-party policy that will actually address their individual needs if it means having to buy two policies. What a choice -- stick with a plan that might not really cover what you need covered or pay twice. Once by paying the higher fare and twice by buying a policy you really need.

 

I say treat people like intelligent adults -- let them assess their own needs and buy (or not buy) the policy that addresses those needs.

[songbird1329]

A couple of points. First, third-party insurance that addresses this exact situation is available (this example is from CSA although others can be found) and those choosing to cruise with school-age children should definitely consider it. And, no, you do not have to purchase any additional "Cancel For Any Reason" benefit at a higher premium to get this coverage.

 

"l. the primary or secondary school where you or your

traveling Family Member or Traveling Companion

attend(s) must extend its operating session beyond its

predefined school year, due to unforeseeable events

commencing during the policy effective period, which

cause the extension of the predefined school year and

the travel dates for the Covered Trip fall within the

period of the school year extension. Extensions due to

extra-curricular or athletic events are not covered;"

 

Second. everyone concedes this situation is not covered by most cruise line-offered plans so at best the client would be able to use the "cancel for any reason" benefit many also include, although they would only receive a portion of the penalty amount refunded as a future cruise credit, usually in the amount of 75% of the penalty amount.

 

So what's being proposed is to include this insurance plan's premium in the fare -- basically making its purchase mandatory for all passengers. It does not cover what needs to be covered in this case so the solution is to shove this uselessness down everyone's throat? Make everyone have a policy that doesn't work? This, of course would be the end result -- who's going to buy the third-party policy that will actually address their individual needs if it means having to buy two policies. What a choice -- stick with a plan that might not really cover what you need covered or pay twice. Once by paying the higher fare and twice by buying a policy you really need.

 

I say treat people like intelligent adults -- let them assess their own needs and buy (or not buy) the policy that addresses those needs.

 

How about what they do at universities? Opt out upon proof of coverage elsewhere?

 

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[Chigirlcruzin]

How about what they do at universities? Opt out upon proof of coverage elsewhere?

 

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I like the idea of treating people like adults and letting them make their own decisions.

 

We've become far too big of a nanny state! There is no such thing as personal responsibility any longer!

[GORDONCHICK]

I like the idea of treating people like adults and letting them make their own decisions.

 

We've become far too big of a nanny state! There is no such thing as personal responsibility any longer!

 

I agree. If we choose not to insure, it's because we've assumed the risk and will absorb the loss. If the potential loss is great enough, we will insure.

[bucks724]

How about what they do at universities? Opt out upon proof of coverage elsewhere?

 

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You have GOT to be kidding me. Please tell me you are.

[celle]

I have posted in the past about why I feel cruise lines need to change their cancellation policies, but unfortunately, nobody here seems to agree with me. I will start this post off saying that I do NOT currently have any children, and I am NOT a teacher or staff member at a school, nor do I have any currently active teachers in my family. Therefore, I am posting a completely unbiased opinion, and I do not have anything to gain.

 

I live on Long Island, which was recently devastated by Hurricane Sandy. Because of Sandy, most school districts lost more than a week of school. Because of that, the schools are opening during February break (schools in New York usuallly close for a week in mid-February) to make up the lost days.

 

I will say that I COMPLETELY agree with the school districts making that time up. The students are expected to be in school for 180 days per year, and teachers are expected to work for 180 days per year. So, if school is lost, it is completely reasonable to have to make that time up.

 

The problem, however, is that many people have non-refundable vacations booked during that week in February. There have been many letters to the editor in our local newspaper (so I am NOT simply making up theories) from people who had non-refundable vacations booked that week. They already suffered losses due to the hurricane, and now they are foced to lose money that they worked hard for and spent on a vacation. Their other choice is to miss a full week of school. That is a lot of school to miss, especially during an already severely interrupted school year. And, teachers and staff do not have the option of just missing a full week of school. One of the letters to the editor was by a school nurse who had a non-refundable vacation booked that week.

 

I should mention that insurance does NOT cover cancellation in this case. Also, the school calendar marks several days (during spring break in March / April) as makeup days, but it does NOT list any part of February break as makeup days. The school is reasonable to avoid using the makeup days in March / April in case there are days lost due to snow during the winter. I am not fauling the school district for that, but I am just saying that parents would have had no indication that days during February break would ever be used as makeup days.

 

The last time that a significant number of school days was lost before the winter was due to Hurricane Gloria in 1985, and even then, although the lost days were made up, they did not use February break as a makeup. Even if someone booked cancel for any reason insurance, that only covers a percentage of the cost, so they will still lose a percentage of the fare (between 10% and 25%) and the cost of the insurance (which is not cheap), which is a lot of money to lose on a vacation that you don't get to go on, especially when you suffered other losses due to the Hurricane.

 

Given the severity of the situation and the unprecedented nature of this storm and the makeup during February break, I think that cruise lines (as well as airlines, and others in the travel industry) should have a heart, and allow cancellation with no penalty for travel booked during the February break. People can very easily prove that school will be open that week. This is not the case of someone wanting to cancel at the last minute since the predicted weather is bad or because they had second thoughts about the cruise.

 

Other than the cruise lines (and airlines), it seems that all other companies went above and beyond in their response to the storm. For example:

 

1. The company that I worked for gave everyone 2 extra paid days off, on Monday and Tuesday Oct. 29 and 30, because of the storm.

 

2. Our local cable company is offering credit for any days where we were unable to use our service, even if it was due to a power outage that was no fault of their own.

 

3. My health insurance company normally requires 50 gym visits per 6 month period in order to qualify for a gym reimbursement. They agreed to reduce the number of gym visits needed this period, due to the storm.

 

4. Our local transit agency allowed people to use an October monthly pass for the first few days of November, and allowed a full refund with no penalty for tickets that were purchased for use on Oct. 29, 30, or 31, but were not used due to the storm.

 

5. My bank is waiving fees and late charges that were incurred due to the storm.

 

6. The place where I rented a DVD from waived the late fees that I would have had to pay when I was unable to return the disk due to the storm.

 

If everyone else went above and beyond for people impacted by the storm, why shouldn't cruise lines do the same?

 

Again, I am posting an unbiased opinion. I do not have any kids yet, I am not a teacher, and I do not have a cruise booked that week (nor any week currently), so I have nothing to gain or lose either way. Just posting an unbiased opinion.

 

Your argument is well-expressed and I am sorry for the damage and distress caused by Sandy.

 

However, since cruise ships travel over most of the world and their customers come from many countries, I see no reason for the cruise lines to change their policy.

[broberts]

No, there is absolutely no difference. Either way you are asking people to pay for something they do not want to pay for. Yes everyone who books a cruise runs the risk of having to cancel, but like I said, I take that chance, it is my option, and I should not be forced to pay for it so you can get it a little cheaper. If you want it then you get it, that is you 're option. I always book early saver anyway, so I won't get my money back. I can use all but $50 towards another cruise, but if I can't take a cruise in the allotted time, I lose it all. Should there be another change in policy so us who book ES are guaranteed to get our money back ? No, that's a risk we assume, by choice. We all have choices, nobody should be forced to pay extra for someone else's choice.

 

But you already pay extra for someone else's choices. Those who never go ashore still pay docking and tender fees. If you don't eat frozen yogurt or pizza, why should you have to chip in? If you don't use the pools, why should you pay for their maintenance? Why should those who avoid the night club or theater have to chip in for the entertainment?

 

If the cruise line chooses to include cancellation insurance in its base fare, you could choose a different line. No one would be forcing you to buy insurance.

[cooki801]

Maybe like the airlines if one cruiseline offered rescheduling at no charge or a small charge then the other lines would follow along?

 

I have to agree that children missing a week of school won't break them but it would be hard to be the school employee under those circumstances.

[nitro2448]

But you already pay extra for someone else's choices. Those who never go ashore still pay docking and tender fees. If you don't eat frozen yogurt or pizza, why should you have to chip in? If you don't use the pools, why should you pay for their maintenance? Why should those who avoid the night club or theater have to chip in for the entertainment?

 

If the cruise line chooses to include cancellation insurance in its base fare, you could choose a different line. No one would be forcing you to buy insurance.

 

You're getting a little ridiculous with you're analogies now. All this stuff you want to try and compare is part of the cruise, which activities you chose to participate in is up to you. If you don't want to do anything on the ship then why cruise ? And if you would just look at you're own post you would see shy Carnival does not force insurance on its passengers, PEOPLE WOULD CHOSE ANOTHER CRUISE LINE. So you just contradicted you're own posts, in one post you said it would help fill rooms, now you're saying chose another line.

[nitro2448]

Maybe like the airlines if one cruiseline offered rescheduling at no charge or a small charge then the other lines would follow along?

 

I have to agree that children missing a week of school won't break them but it would be hard to be the school employee under those circumstances.

 

You can reschedule at no charge, and in the case that was presented at the beginning of this thread, anyone booked on a cruise could have canceled with no charge, except ES. As far as children missing school, not that I agree with pulling kids out of school, but I haven't been on a cruise yet that there weren't kids on it.

[nitro2448]

But you already pay extra for someone else's choices. Those who never go ashore still pay docking and tender fees. If you don't eat frozen yogurt or pizza, why should you have to chip in? If you don't use the pools, why should you pay for their maintenance? Why should those who avoid the night club or theater have to chip in for the entertainment?

 

If the cruise line chooses to include cancellation insurance in its base fare, you could choose a different line. No one would be forcing you to buy insurance.

 

And BTW, everything you mentioned I do, use, or eat. So I guess I get what I'm paying for huh. And I don't get what I'm not paying for, like insurance. :)

[blondietink]

DH is a retired teacher and we live in NYS. Only the last 5 years or so have we had a week long break in February. Before that we always had 2 weeks at Easter. We were supposed to have a weekscheduled the 3rd week of April for spring break. Low and behold a couple of years ago the NYS Regents board that overseas schools scheduled the state exams during the 3rd week of April (when they had been scheduled for the first week of May) after the school year started so everybody was left scrambling to change the week off in April. Many people cancelled their vacations and many lost money who did not purchase cancel for any reason insurance. Many others decided to go on their vacations despite what the state did, had a wonderful time and took makeups exam the following week.

 

There are no state exams scheduled for February. That Monday is a holiday so there is no school anyway. Teachers do have personal days every year that usually accumulate up to a set amount of days (DH could accumulate up to 10). So, if a teacher was prudent with their saving of personal days, they could still go on their vacation.

 

Nobody should be mandated to buy travel insurance. Everybody who doesn't takes a risk and therefore they should be willing to lose the money they spent on said vacation if something happens. I am not going to see the price of my vacation increase for somebody else not buying insurance.

[spookwife]

 

 

 

Given the severity of the situation and the unprecedented nature of this storm and the makeup during February break, I think that cruise lines (as well as airlines, and others in the travel industry) should have a heart, and allow cancellation with no penalty for travel booked during the February break. People can very easily prove that school will be open that week. This is not the case of someone wanting to cancel at the last minute since the predicted weather is bad or because they had second thoughts about the cruise.

 

 

why? the cruise line DID NOT force them to book a non refundable vacation. the cruise line did NOT cause the hurricane or force the School district to decide to make up the days on February.

 

dollars to donuts the cruiseline WILL allow them to reschedule with little to no penalty or at least allow them to book a new cruise with full credit of monies paid to date.

 

I grew up in Upstate NY. in 12 years of school February break was canceled at least 5 times that I can remember.. including 2 years running in High school. hell one year we lost February Break, Easter Break AND was in school an extra week in June we had so many snow days.

 

You know I field gripes from people on PCS orders al the time: waahhh we bought this house and now we are being forced to relocate but we can't sell cuz the market bottomed out! wahhh! the Military should buy our house!"

 

uh NO.. nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to sign a mortgage agreement.

 

same type of thing here.

[spookwife]

Had no idea that schools in New York closed for a week in February! Is that in addition to a Spring Break in March/April? My goodness, that' a lot of time off.

 

I see no reason for an exception to the cancellation policy when it impacts school days as I feel it opens up too many other possibilities. What about if time off from work has to change for an exceptional reason, would that also be appropriate?

 

heheh technically February( Mid Winter Break) is a BUILT IN week's worth of snow days. that whole 180 days of classroom instruction thing. It's there as a cushion. snow start in November in Upstate( hell it's snowed on Hallowe'en more times than I can count) and by February it's pretty easy to determine whether or not they will be needed. although one year we got slammed by a Spring Blizzard in March. THAT was fun lemme tell ya. only got Good Friday off that year as opposed to leaving at noon the wednesday before and getting the whole following week off.