Grand Asia and Australia Cruise Observations

[doublebzz]

My wife and I recently returned from a 41 day segment of a 75 day Grand Asia and Australia cruise. While we have taken many cruises, this was the first of this length. Given the cost and length of this cruise, I expected, in general, the guests would be highly sophisticated, experienced and enjoy social interaction. Regrettably, my actual experience fell short of these expectations. Maybe because we joined 5 weeks into the cruise when relationships were long established, we found folks were simply not that friendly or outgoing. Indeed, one Australian couple that joined the ship when we did expressed the view that they felt they were intruders. Another couple I chatted with the last week of the cruise said I was the first person who talked to them. The tone was set the first hour of the first day we embarked in Singapore. Shortly after embarking, we lunched on the Lido Deck sharing a table with another couple. When I inquired how the food was in the main dining room, they said they hadn’t taken any meals there and didn’t intend to. While I can understand some guests prefer to take most of the their meals in the Lido, to foreclose ever eating in the MDR suggests to me the this choice goes beyond convenience or dress code and speaks more to the desire to isolate oneself from the rest of the guests. This was not a singular case as throughout the cruise I noticed many people who obviously preferred their own company to any relationship with other guests. Another example was when my wife, who has a native fluency in Spanish, heard another couple speaking Spanish. She introduced herself, and after a short conversation, it became clear the couple had no interest in furthering the relationship. Given the fact that this couple barely spoke English and probably only one other guest aboard spoke Spanish, it seemed odd that they wouldn’t want the company of another Spanish speaker. When one is embarked with only 800 or so guests for a prolonged period of time, you get to know your neighbors pretty well. It seemed to me that this ship had more than its share of iconoclasts. There was the couple who I initially thought were mother and son because she was probably in her 80’s while he looked mid-60s. I found out later they were actually husband and wife. What made these folks really different was their dress. For every day of the cruise, his attire consisted of shorts, t-shirt, baseball hat and sneakers. The wife was similarly clothed. For formal nights, they would transition from a t-shirt to a sweatshirt. These folks were clearly attempting to establish the fact that a couple could take a 75 day cruise with one carry-on per person. Another couple preferred the “Ma and Pa Kettle” look. She would wear a flowery, hand sewn skirt with a straw hat. The hat band was made of matching material from the skirt. To complete the affectation, she wore dark sunglasses day and night. The husband was more modestly attired except for his 3 inch wide suspenders and sunglasses. I’m sure they would fit in well at the “Grand Ole Opry.” Then there was the obsessive photographer. Each day as I took my laps on the Promenade Deck, she would be perched on a handrail focusing an expensive camera with a 2 foot telephoto on the sea below. This would be a daily occurrence for hours at end. I don’t know whether she was expecting Poseidon to rise from the depths or some other nautical phenomenon, but I do know from many cruises and 13 years at sea in the Navy that nothing warrants this devotion. Then there was the guest on an Australian public bus who received a friendly admonishment from a local that eating or drinking on public transport could subject one to hefty fine. Showing her appreciation for this advice, the guest exclaimed: “Mind your own f…ing” business” or words to that effect thereby reinforcing the “Ugly American” perception. I won’t even mention the bald headed women who tattooed her head with a Renoir-like still life as this may have resulted from a medical condition. There were many other examples which brevity prevents me from citing. I would also not like one to conclude that there were not many very personable, friendly and intelligent folks aboard. There were to be sure and we cultivated these relationships. My comments should also not reflect negatively on HAL; the cruise director and entire staff did everything possible to make the cruise enjoyable. And in the end, my wife and I enjoyed the experience tremendously notwithstanding my observations. I would expect that this thread will engender some comments. Let me say that I am hypocritical, a prude and a snob so that I hope whatever comments are forthcoming will stick to the substance and not reinforce my admitted shortcomings.

[SwissMyst]

Of course you have the right to judge your fellow passengers in any way you wish. Human nature. Happy to learn you enjoyed your cruise, regardless.

 

Regent cruises tend to have a more homogeneous passenger mix that might come closer to your own personal expectations. Old etiquette books always cautioned against becoming too friendly, too early on sea voyages. They are a kick to read when compared to today's more casual approach to sea travel. http://historicaltidbits.blogspot.com/2012/02/ladies-advice-regarding-sea-travel.html

 

I have experienced the same closed system feelings on longer voyages when passenger groups had formed earlier -- on both sides of the equation. Sometimes you just can't trot out your life story one more time to a new group, nor maintain the same level of eager excitement that is the right of any new passenger.

 

I think what you experienced and observed was "normal" human behavior in today's far more diverse age and culture. But having traveled on student age ships at steerage rates back in the 1970's, we were a pretty diverse group too.

[Hawaiidan]

Next year I am in the same boat, er Ship, so to speak. Taking 43 days of a 75 day cruise. I noticed that in the roll call the vast majority are gettin on in Canada or LA.. Only 4 of us ( 2 couples) are getting on in the mid point.

 

I have silently worried about the group bonding into a clique that sees the later arrivals as outsiders. I too also heard that on these grand cruises that the ship throws all these glitzy theme balls ... furthur promoting a clubby group. After over a month together I can see a potential for little closed groups forming, with territories and tables/seats established.

 

Too did you see the later arrivals forming equaly seperiate groups

 

Did you see or observe any of these over the top get togethers over and above the regular formal nights?

As a late arrival, what did you find to be the most welcoming to engage people?

[doublebzz]

Next year I am in the same boat, er Ship, so to speak. Taking 43 days of a 75 day cruise. I noticed that in the roll call the vast majority are gettin on in Canada or LA.. Only 4 of us ( 2 couples) are getting on in the mid point.

 

I have silently worried about the group bonding into a clique that sees the later arrivals as outsiders. I too also heard that on these grand cruises that the ship throws all these glitzy theme balls ... furthur promoting a clubby group. After over a month together I can see a potential for little closed groups forming, with territories and tables/seats established.

 

Too did you see the later arrivals forming equaly seperiate groups

 

Did you see or observe any of these over the top get togethers over and above the regular formal nights?

As a late arrival, what did you find to be the most welcoming to engage people?

 

There were about 650-700 guests that did the full 75 day cruise and that was about the guest size on the Transpacific westbound and eastbound. In the Asian ports, we embarked about 500, mainly Aussies, that disembarked in the Australian ports. So, for about 3 weeks, the guest population was close to the 1,380 capacity. I don't know if this is typical or specific to our cruise. The Aussies tended to be younger and more friendly and we enjoyed their company. Yes, there are a number of theme nights but I would not describe them as "glitzy theme balls" or contributing to a "clubby group." Mainly, a lot of theme decorations and meals reflecting the theme. Incidently, I found the food better than standard cruise fare - a lot of lobster tails and fine cuts of meats. A great variety of fish which was also quite good. I would suggest you stay abreast of the roll call as it is a good place to coordinate private tours. Many of the cliques are an outgrowth of some of the activities. There was a huge crafts group, for instance, and I'm sure they socialized other times. Ditto for the bridge group. Hope this helps.

[SwissMyst]

I'll bet if you look back to the beginning days of the Grand Voyages, none of the passengers bonded immediately either. The grew in their relationships over time and togetherness experience too. If one chooses to enter this pre-formed group setting at a halfway point, it is reasonable to feel like an outsider, because honestly that is what you are.

 

Time, lowered expectations, humor and a little empathy for what has gone on before you arrived will probably make the next trip work out better. Mocking your fellow passengers even silently for what they wear or how they conduct themselves may not be sending out the best welcoming message. Be open and be ready for surprises as well as disappointment learning that others do not necessarily share or even intuit your own expectations for their choices.

 

But I'll candidly say it again, I get less and less eager to meet new passengers the longer I am on a ship and new segments bring on new faces. It is kind of ...been there and done that for me .... and who are these strangers coming into my space? :eek: There, I said it. And it is good to hear it from your perspective too. May we find a way to meet in the middle.

[Coolcruise02]

WOW, interesting!

[SilvertoGold]

Dear OP: what exactly is your point?

 

Let's see: we've been on longer HAL cruises of 64 and 42 days. We have enjoyed the mix of pax and have certainly found a lot of "characters". They, among many other things, made the cruise interesting. Certainly would find sailing with a bunch of clones uninteresting in the extreme.

 

Good luck with your next cruise, which I hope is more suitable to your style.

[doublebzz]

Dear OP: what exactly is your point?

 

 

No point; just a cruise review hopefully more interesting than the routine: "long lines at the Lido," "the carpeting was stained," "guest smoking on the veranda," etc.

[TheEmerson]

No point; just a cruise review hopefully more interesting than the routine: "long lines at the Lido," "the carpeting was stained," "guest smoking on the veranda," etc.

 

At least I never got wind of someone complaining that the ship shops do not carry 6 volt lantern batteries.

[KirkNC]

Thanks for the review, sorry you did not find friendlier passengers.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Sorry that you encountered such a weird group of passengers.

Glad though you enjoyed the cruise.

[Esri]

No point; just a cruise review hopefully more interesting than the routine: "long lines at the Lido," "the carpeting was stained," "guest smoking on the veranda," etc.

 

Ok, I'll say it... You find cruise reviews boring so you thought you'd review the passengers instead? ;)

 

Were you more appalled by the older woman married to the younger (still no spring chicken) man because of the age difference or because they decided to dress casually? Are the two things related in your mind? Because I don't think one has anything to do with the other. And, frankly, neither is any of my business.

 

As to the "Ma and Pa Kettle" remarks and the opinion that they would be at home in the Grand Ole Opry... well, I'm sure country music thanks you for the 60 - 70 year old stereotyping. Even "Hee Haw" was over 40 years ago and the rubes on that show were a joke.

 

Rude people are rude people -- the lady on the bus is obviously rude and, of those you chose to "review", is probably the most deserving of the honor. One thing I do know about rude people though -- they are memorable. I will never forget the woman who gave the limo driver the finger as we followed the hearse on the way to bury my mother. We may be a terrible family, but we all had to laugh....

 

Personally, I enjoy the "characters" in the world. If everyone were as boring as I am, the world would be much less interesting.

 

I do have one serious question though. Is your initial observation that people were not friendly related to the character profiles you provided? Because, again, I don't see the connection.

[Typhoon1]

Thanks for taking time to share your thoughts.

[ANSalberg]

We've taken one World and 4 of the ASia/Pac [ with another for the WWII experience next Fall] on HAL and enjoyed them all. Being relatively open and friendly -we made friends with another Australian couple some 5 or 6 years ago -who have remained very close friends [ we visited them on one of the cruises in Sydney] And SHE remains one of my DEAREST and closest of friends -via the internet, which aids our closeness. I feel incredibly lucky to count this couple as "friends" but we ALL worked at it via the thousands of miles that separate Sidney with Colorado. THIS is the opportunity that cruising offers -but I'm sure it doesn't always "Click"

As they say "If at first you don't succeed try try again" and try to find a friendly friend if you are lucky; I did!

Anne

[doublebzz]

 

I do have one serious question though. Is your initial observation that people were not friendly related to the character profiles you provided? Because, again, I don't see the connection.

 

To the extent that these "characters" as you put it did not really mix with the other guests, I guess you can make a connection. I'm really speaking to the general tone of the atmosphere on the ship. In a larger sense, what I found mind boggling was why so many apparently introverted folks who appeared to feal uncomfortable in a social environment would chose a cruise for their vacation venue. Its like people who hate hot weather spending their summer vacation in Miami.

[PathfinderEss]

Thanks for your thoughts on your half of the Grand Asia cruise. Sometimes I think coming in for only half might be some of the problem. But I'm glad you had a good time, in spite of some of the issues you incountered.

[JamesEM]

doublezz, thanks for your input.

[RuthC]

Long and Grand cruises do attract a different type of cruiser than the typical 7-10 day cruises do.

Your observation that the passengers knew each other from the beginning of the cruise is true as far as it goes. The chances are that many of them knew each other from many cruises over a longer period of time. They have taken this cruise before, as well as other long and Grand cruises, and have become a social circle. Much as happens in real life.

 

And just as in real life, the day-to-day goings on in such a cruise become more routine than is found on shorter cruises. It would not be uncommon have a more sedate existence, with the occasional "Let's go out tonight" mindset.

[Esri]

To the extent that these "characters" as you put it did not really mix with the other guests, I guess you can make a connection. I'm really speaking to the general tone of the atmosphere on the ship. In a larger sense, what I found mind boggling was why so many apparently introverted folks who appeared to feal uncomfortable in a social environment would chose a cruise for their vacation venue. Its like people who hate hot weather spending their summer vacation in Miami.

 

So you think introverted people never go out in public? I am extremely introverted and I do feel uncomfortable in social situations involving large numbers of people -- even when I know most of them. That said, I personally would engage in conversation with a more outgoing person who approached me - I just wouldn't be doing much "approaching".

 

I CAN speak as to why I, as an introvert, would choose a cruise over a land-based vacation -- a cruise, at least on a smaller ship, is less "people-intensive" than flying or lying on a resort beach. There are a lot of people on a ship, but they aren't all in the same place at the same time (most of the time anyway). There is also a lot of quality "alone" time on a cruise that might not be available on a land-based vacation especially one with a lot of sea days. Plus, introverts enjoy the same things about cruises as extroverts - the ship, the food, the itinerary, the excursions... The most introverted among us may just not count interacting with fellow passengers among those amenities and, hey, it's their vacation!

[goodroe]

Long and Grand cruises do attract a different type of cruiser than the typical 7-10 day cruises do.

 

 

And just as in real life, the day-to-day goings on in such a cruise become more routine than is found on shorter cruises. It would not be uncommon have a more sedate existence, with the occasional "Let's go out tonight" mindset.

 

We took our first long cruise (28 days) last year and found this be very true. We enjoyed it so much that we are almost ready for our first Grand voyage. RuthC, just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy and appreciate your postings.

 

From a fellow Chocolate lover

[RuthC]

RuthC, just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy and appreciate your postings.

Thanks for saying so! Made my day. :)

From a fellow Chocolate lover

Thanks for the reminder. It's way past time to change my signature. :o

[SilvertoGold]

To the extent that these "characters" as you put it did not really mix with the other guests, I guess you can make a connection. I'm really speaking to the general tone of the atmosphere on the ship. In a larger sense, what I found mind boggling was why so many apparently introverted folks who appeared to feal uncomfortable in a social environment would chose a cruise for their vacation venue. Its like people who hate hot weather spending their summer vacation in Miami.

 

I notice that you use qualifiers in your descriptions: "did not really mix", "apparently introverted", "who appeared to feal (sic) uncomfortable".

 

How do you know this? Did you follow them around all day and night? Did you actually talk to them and they said they were uncomfortable?

I could be wrong, but are you projecting your ideas, values and standards onto complete strangers and making judgments? I can't understand why you would do this.

 

Your analogy of hot weather made me laugh. I detest hot weather, but I wanted to see the world. Have endured the excessive heat in Darwin, Australia; Cartagena, Columbia; Indonesia; Singapore; Cadiz, when it was 98 degrees because I wanted to see these places. There are some situations in life that are perhaps not as cut-and-dried as they seem, your cruise being one of them.

[doublebzz]

I CAN speak as to why I, as an introvert,

 

I suspect you are not quite as introverted as you claim. Anyway, I believe Ruth C's analysis(above) is right on. For many of the cruisers on board, cruising has become a way of life, including one woman who virtually lives aboard Amsterdam with over 3,300 HAL sea days. Also, there were quite a few folks who enjoy touring but dislike or fear long flights. Not critical, just an observation.

[doublebzz]

I notice that you use qualifiers in your descriptions: "did not really mix", "apparently introverted", "who appeared to feal (sic) uncomfortable".

 

How do you know this? Did you follow them around all day and night? Did you actually talk to them and they said they were uncomfortable?

I could be wrong, but are you projecting your ideas, values and standards onto complete strangers and making judgments? I can't understand why you would do this.

 

 

As I indicated, brevity made me limit examples of what brought me to my conclusions but let me offer two examples: On one occasion early in the cruise, I initiated a conversation with a couple on the Lido Deck. They were completely taken back and shocked that a complete stranger would talk to them. Over the next 6 weeks, I noticed them frequently always sitting by themselves never engaging any of the other guests. Of course, I didn't follow them around 24/7 so for all I know they were having sex orgies back in their cabin at night. Another time, my wife and I sat on the aisle seats of a six person table on the Lido having noticed the window chairs were angled and reserved for guests getting their food. When they came back to the table and noticed us, they immediately departed for a vacant table nearby. I am not judging their behavior; just making observations for whatever their worth. You may choose to conclude that we are brash ex-New Yorkers with body odor and the cause of our alienation.

[Hawaiidan]

:DTennis bum.... I respect your evaluations and from personal professional experience agree with your analysis.

 

Too, I find it rather easy to observe others body language and demeanor to arrive at a pretty accurate conclusion of what they are like 95% of the time.

We all judge people, every day, in every way, however some dont like to admit it to themselves. It is basic human nature necessary for our survival. We also judge situations too; it's basic in your fight or flight make up as a human.

I appreciate your candor and honesty which I felt gave a far more accurate review of the ship. Afterall, it is the people who make the ship, not the other way around.

I felt the Lido incident a classic example of cliques in action; a sort of who are you...how dare you. Very territorial to say the least. That too is normal behaviour in tribes to animals.

 

I experienced it on a 30 day cruise my wife and I seated at a table for 6 where no one would talk to us... we were outsiders to their clique. On for one man would actualy turn his head and look away when I asked him questions or tried to engage. Totaly anti-social and hostile to anyone outside of the circle. Pretty sad . We ended up eating in the Lido and found for the most part wonderful and charming people attracted to it for the same reasons.:o

 

I will plan on not conflicting with the group and being low key and doing my own thing with respect to tours. We wont have any Australian or NZ ports and the vast passenger compliment is all from the US. And yes, many seem to know eachother I plan to give then a wide berth.

 

Thanks for the heads up...and honesty

 

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