The Snootiest Ship in the DAM fleet!!

[IRL_Joanie]

I guess Im a bit confused.

 

You couldn't attend the boat drill, but had no problem with the meet-and-greet?

 

Father, let me try and explain the nearly impossible maneuvering to get to an assigned Life Boat at any time, heck to get to the Promenade deck at anytime.

 

1. If you think on it you will remember that there are these Huge and extremely heavy doors to go from inside the ship and out onto the Promenade Deck, or vice versa. You need someone to hold the door(s) open so you can attempt to get outside.

 

2. In a scooter/wheelchair you cannot easily get over the hump (cannot think of the name for it) that separates the inside from the outside. I have made it twice whilst in my scooter by having 2 people hold both doors open and me driving at an angle to make it over that hump (but those 2 times I did not have a broken back.) If I do not angle myself I end up stuck in the very middle of that hump (cannot remember what that is called.)

 

3. For Life Boat Drills when you are in an Aft Wrap, generally to get to our Life Boats we must go through part of the galley, which does not have a hum it has a lip about 3 imnches high. No Way I can even attempt that lip.

 

Believe me, I WANT to do the Life Boat Drills alongside everyone else!!

 

The problem is that it is nigh onto impossible to do so in a scooter/wheelchair:(

 

I did not want to miss the drill, which seems to be the way some of you think I meant:( FAR FROM IT!!!! I wanted to do it as it is a matter of life and death, as we all know!! What I wanted was for the Life Boat Captain to help me get to the Drill and/or emergency. They chose to tell me I did not have to go since I have had a few cruises under my belt, the last one being in March, after the Concordia when the mandatory attendance was put into place.

 

Here is exactly what I said in my Original Post QUOTE: "Prior to Sail Away from Port Everglades I called the Neptune Lounge and asked to meet with my Life Boat Captain in order to show how nearly impossible it was for me in my scooter and broken back to get to the Drill. The young Lady, forgot her name sorry, called me about 5 minutes later and told me that since I had been on 9 cruise s with HAL previously, did not have to attend the drill,......." UNQUOTE

 

HAL and ALL Cruise Lines need to be made aware of the near impossibility of getting from inside the ship to outside Promenade Deck when you are on a scooter or wheelchair.

 

As to the Meet & Greet, I had no humps or lips to try and maneuver over.

 

Hope this explains it................

 

Loreen, THANK YOU for trying to correct the misconception...........Unfortunately many will never understand and read something totally different than what I actually wrote... Tis the nature of each of us, to read and comprehend what we think we see:)

 

Joanie

[cruz chic]

 

Loreen, THANK YOU for trying to correct the misconception...........Unfortunately many will never understand and read something totally different than what I actually wrote... Tis the nature of each of us, to read and comprehend what we think we see:)

 

Joanie

Yes, you are correct about reading something different. I thank you for explaining it. I really hope that makes it crystal clear. Just one thing, I think you may have confused Mariner with Himself.

[IRL_Joanie]

Yes, you are correct about reading something different. I thank you for explaining it. I really hope that makes it crystal clear. Just one thing, I think you may have confused Mariner with Himself.

 

Yikes I sure did!!!!:eek: Father PLEASE forgive me???? I THOUGHT I saw your screen name there instead of Mariners':(

 

Thanks once again Lore:)

 

Joanie

[sail7seas]

Life Boat Captain cannot leave his post. He is responsible for far more people than just one. If anyone is to help you, they have to be assigned separate from Life Boat Captain and there are crew who do this. It was unrealistic of you to ask Life Boat Captain be told to dessert his station.

 

What did you do after Life Boat Drill problems you encountered to assure you would be aided in an emergency? Who did you speak with? What did they arrange for you?

 

I think others in wheelchairs and/or need special assistance would really like to know how you arranged to see to you being helped in an emergency.

[cruz chic]

I sure hope HAL is going to take some responsibilty in seeing that the handicapped pax are taken care of. I believe that responsibilty needs to be shared.

[IRL_Joanie]

Life Boat Captain cannot leave his post. He is responsible for far more people than just one. If anyone is to help you, they have to be assigned separate from Life Boat Captain and there are crew who do this. It was unrealistic of you to ask Life Boat Captain be told to dessert his station.

 

What did you do after Life Boat Drill problems you encountered to assure you would be aided in an emergency? Who did you speak with? What did they arrange for you?

 

I think others in wheelchairs and/or need special assistance would really like to know how you arranged to see to you being helped in an emergency.

 

Judy, I ask that you re-read my original post to see that most of your questions have been answered.

 

As to the Life Boat Captain, he/she was not at his/her assigned Life Boat station #18 at 11:30 in the morning!! There was plenty of time for he or she to meet with me at a designated spot on the ship so that we could make sure I made the drill........... THAT IS IT!!!

 

Joanie

[sail7seas]

Judy, I ask that you re-read my original post to see that most of your questions have been answered.

 

As to the Life Boat Captain, he/she was not at his/her assigned Life Boat station #18 at 11:30 in the morning!! There was plenty of time for he or she to meet with me at a designated spot on the ship so that we could make sure I made the drill........... THAT IS IT!!!

 

Joanie

 

Joanie,

 

Surely with your cruise experience, you realize life boat commanders are crew members with regular duties aside from safety drill and life boat responsibilities. They are dining room stewards, bartenders and every other sort of position. They had their usual disembarkation/embarkation duties to attend to. In addition, they do not have the privilege of making private appointments in guests' cabins or anywhere else. That is out of their job description. They might even have had a few hours off and were away from the ship. They do not meet privately with guests upon guest's request.

 

To expect the life boat commander to meet privately with you is not likely to happen.

 

Staff Captain runs and is responsible for life boat drill.

 

What did you do to arrange for your safety in an emergency? I have not found the answer. I think those in wheelchairs and scooters would be interested. I am interested.

 

Of course, as always, no need for you to respond if you don't wish.

 

[peaches from georgia]

Sorry to hear about all your health issues, Joanie. Sometimes doctors do know best, but it sounds like you enjoyed your cruises nevertheless and got home safely.

 

I am wondering if your husband could not have gotten you down to Promenade Deck where there would have been crew to get you over the hump rather than depend on a crew member coming to your cabin to assist personally? If memory serves me there are always a lot of crew giving directions and manning the doors to Promenade for the drill.

 

Do you know how others with special needs handled the life boat drill? Did they all get assistance by a crew member from their cabin to their life boat station?

 

It sounds like a form letter was sent in the Staff Captain's name to all those who missed the drill and it wasn't meant as an opinion re your particular medical condition. I wouldn't take that as a personal affront at all.

[DizzyDallasDi]

. . . I am wondering if your husband could not have gotten you down to Promenade Deck where there would have been crew to get you over the hump rather than depend on a crew member coming to your cabin to assist personally? If memory serves me there are always a lot of crew giving directions and manning the doors to Promenade for the drill. . . .

 

I was wondering the same thing.

[CowPrincess]

>SNIP<

What did you do to arrange for your safety in an emergency? I have not found the answer. I think those in wheelchairs and scooters would be interested. I am interested.

 

Of course, as always, no need for you to respond if you don't wish.

 

 

 

As far as those in wheelchairs and scooters, there is a VERY informative thread started by (I think) SoloCanadian where Copper10-8 reviewed the current process. IMHO reading THAT would probably be much more helpful to cruisers in wheelchairs and scooters than hearing how Joanie sorted out the problems she experienced.

 

The last time I cruised with a mobility-impaired friend (pre-Concordia sinking) we also experienced a lack of communication, pretty severe misinformation, and were left with an overall sense that if she needed to evacuate, it was going to be up to me to get her to our lifeboat station. Reading Copper10-8's info on the current process gave me a feeling that now, there is more attention being paid to handicapped cruisers.

[sunviking90]

Thank you Joanie for your review. I am really looking forward to your Westerdam review - one of our favourite ships also:)

[cruz chic]

As far as those in wheelchairs and scooters, there is a VERY informative thread started by (I think) SoloCanadian where Copper10-8 reviewed the current process. IMHO reading THAT would probably be much more helpful to cruisers in wheelchairs and scooters than hearing how Joanie sorted out the problems she experienced.

 

The last time I cruised with a mobility-impaired friend (pre-Concordia sinking) we also experienced a lack of communication, pretty severe misinformation, and were left with an overall sense that if she needed to evacuate, it was going to be up to me to get her to our lifeboat station. Reading Copper10-8's info on the current process gave me a feeling that now, there is more attention being paid to handicapped cruisers.

Thanks for the info CP. Like I said yesterday, Hal dropped the ball. I hope they did learn something from this situation. There seems to be problems on the N.A. even though there were pockets of great service. I'm really glad to be able bodied.

[startwin]

Just for the record.... and not wanting to get into an argument with either side in this.... I spend a fair bit of time pushing my DH around in a wheelchair while onboard. He's quite hefty, but like Joanie, can get out of it if necessary. I discovered that I CAN get him over the riser in the doorway, (it's got a little ramp) but if I couldn't, he could get out of the wheelchair, stand for a second or two and get back in once it's over the riser. And, I definitely could get him to a muster drill or to the lifeboats in an emergency. I would hate to have to wait for a crew member because I'd be a blithering idiot by then if it was a real emergency:D I really feel for those severely disabled people who really cannot get out of a wheelchair at all, and not sure - if my DH was that much challenged - that we would cruise.

[startwin]

I sure hope HAL is going to take some responsibilty in seeing that the handicapped pax are taken care of. I believe that responsibilty needs to be shared.

 

I agree there should be a clear policy in place, and I haven't seen anything with regard to the handicapped and drills/emergencies. I just assumed it was our responsibility, but you would think a cruise line that is known to cater to an "older clientele" would have something in place.

[boulders]

I agree there should be a clear policy in place, and I haven't seen anything with regard to the handicapped and drills/emergencies. I just assumed it was our responsibility, but you would think a cruise line that is known to cater to an "older clientele" would have something in place.

 

Here's what I found on HAL's website regarding handicapped passengers and safety drills.

 

The Importance of Planning Ahead

Holland America Line does not discriminate against individuals on the basis of disability. We seek, to the extent feasible, to accommodate guests with disabilities. However, some needs require adequate time to prepare for a guest's arrival. It is recommended that guests make every effort to contact our Access & Compliance Department and to submit a Special Requirements Information (SRI) Form well in advance of the departure of their cruise and/or cruisetour. We recommend submitting an SRI upon booking or a minimum of 45 days prior to departure.

Guests who are unable to care for their basic needs (e.g. dressing, eating, and attending safety drills) MUST have a capable traveling companion. The medical staff on board is not available for daily care unless an individual is hospitalized in the ship's Medical Center. In limited situations (either on board or ashore), we may find it necessary to ask the individual to make alternative travel arrangements, such as if an individual with a disability is unable to satisfy certain specified safety and other criteria, even when provided with appropriate auxiliary aids and services.

[496and706]

To get a wheelchair over those "little" bumps (little to people that don't have to think about a bump on the floor or the width of doorways or whether or not the washrooms are accessible...) the best way is to turn the wheelchair around and go over them backwards. The back wheels are larger (in a "Classic" manual wheelchair) and don't swivel/pivot like the tinier front wheels. With a "Travel" chair which usually has 4 identical sized wheels, it doesn't make too much of a difference.

 

Power chairs and scooters are a different story altogether.

 

People that don't have mobility problems don't consider the "little" bumps.

[RuthC]

However,

Guests who are unable to care for their basic needs (e.g. dressing, eating, and attending safety drills) MUST have a capable traveling companion.

is no guarantee that the "capable traveling companion" will be with the disabled person at the time an emergency occurs.

HAL still needs a clear-cut policy, which is made known to the disabled and the crew assigned to implement it. Then that policy needs to be followed to the letter.

[CowPrincess]

Here's a link to the thread I referenced earlier. Well worth the few minutes it will take to read the info Copper10-8 provided.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1744659

[IRL_Joanie]

Here's a link to the thread I referenced earlier. Well worth the few minutes it will take to read the info Copper10-8 provided.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1744659

 

....that I had known this before I cruised, starting the 25th of November. Sure would have saved me the pain and the crew the problems I caused:(

 

Joanie

[mariner]

The problem with "clear cut policies" is, every emergency is different. There needs to be personal responsibility.

 

Ive travelled enough with people on scooters and wheelchairs to see them all over the ship. The boat drill, which is the most important event of any cruise, should never be an exception.

 

A few months ago, an elderly couple on Seabourn didn't attend the drill. The staff captain went to their cabin and they wouldn't open the door. The captain wouldn't sail until they went to the drill.

 

After gaining entry, they still refused. They and their luggage we're placed on the dock and the ship sailed.

 

I had no problem with what the captain did.

 

If you can't do the basics inan emergency, you put others at risk.

 

Sorry that sounds cold. ButI don't think it's HAL's responsibility to get you to a life boat.

[CowPrincess]

....that I had known this before I cruised, starting the 25th of November. Sure would have saved me the pain and the crew the problems I caused:(

 

Joanie

 

Joanie I don't think you "caused problems"; there seems to be a notable LACK of clear, consistent information available, and in the past at least, the information rec'd by pax depended on who they spoke with.

 

I know in the case of my friend and me, one person said "no she doesn't need to go to the drill" and "have her watch it on TV". When I questioned that person I was told emphatically "we have it on file" and yet ANOTHER person insisted that she attend, and when I went to the Front Desk to once AGAIN confirm that there was a note on her file regarding needing assistance in the event of an emergency, there was NO note. So it isn't just you who have had a problem with muster drill and bad communication.

 

That's why I was so pleased to see the info Copper provided. It sounds like there is less chance for errors and omissions, and that's a good thing. I provided the link because other posters were suggesting that however YOU resolved your problem would be how other pax should resolve whatever problems they encounter. Your resolution to the issue has no bearing on what is now supposed to be going on, onboard -- hence my link to Solocanadian's thread.

[CowPrincess]

>SNIP<

ButI don't think it's HAL's responsibility to get you to a life boat.

 

Perhaps you would agree, though, that it is HAL's responsibility to provide clear, consistent and ACCURATE communication to both the pax AND the crew/staff.

[mariner]

I believe it's HAL's responsibility to say you must attend the drill. If you're unable to, we will deny you boarding. I think that's the clearest way for them to do it.

 

Everyone keeps quoting Copper. Is that HAL's policy?

 

I'm not sure.

[CowPrincess]

To get a wheelchair over those "little" bumps (little to people that don't have to think about a bump on the floor or the width of doorways or whether or not the washrooms are accessible...) the best way is to turn the wheelchair around and go over them backwards. The back wheels are larger (in a "Classic" manual wheelchair) and don't swivel/pivot like the tinier front wheels. With a "Travel" chair which usually has 4 identical sized wheels, it doesn't make too much of a difference.

 

Power chairs and scooters are a different story altogether.

 

People that don't have mobility problems don't consider the "little" bumps.

 

Until a person has been in a chair, or been responsible for someone with mobility restrictions, there is very little understanding of the challenges faced.

[CowPrincess]

I believe it's HAL's responsibility to say you must attend the drill. If you're unable to, we will deny you boarding. I think that's the clearest way for them to do it.

 

Everyone keeps quoting Copper. Is that HAL's policy?

 

I'm not sure.

 

Have you read the thread I linked to where he outlines the new onboard procedure?