Holland America Lines Disasterdam

[hrhdhd]

You probably have noticed the image has a clear "R" encircled indicating it is copyrighted.

 

Actually, it means registered trademark. And unless you are the one who registered it, you shouldn't be using it without express permission. Using it and not having been called on it doesn't make it right.

 

In regards to the OP's situation, I agree that nagging about having a passport 1) isn't helpful at this point and 2) isn't necessarily useful advice given that many, many cruise passengers cruise each year on closed-loop cruises without one.

 

If HAL doesn't wish its reps to get involved in issues of documentation, then when asked about it, they should decline to provide an answer. If they answer, certainly the cruiser should be able to expect that the HAL rep knows what he or she is talking about.

[George C]

Everyone who cruises should have a passport, just watched a show on the Carnival disaster and they said reason ship couild not be towed to Mexico ( which was a lot closer than USA) was due to many passengers not having a passport.

[sail7seas]

I always thought that a circled c meant copyright. What does r stand for? Registered trademark ?

 

Yes, registered trademark. It means that no other company can use that logo. Since Sail isn't using it to sell anything, I don't think HAL will object to her use of the logo. As someone else posted, lots of people do this to show what their favorite line is.

 

 

Thanks. :o

 

I don't know one from the other so appreciate the information.

 

I'm sure by now if anyone at either HAL or CC wanted me to stop using it, I would have been advised and, of course, would cease immediately though I'd be sad to stop using the Logo in my signature after all these years.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Thanks. :o

 

I don't know one from the other so appreciate the information.

 

I'm sure by now if anyone at either HAL or CC wanted me to stop using it, I would have been advised and, of course, would cease immediately though I'd be sad to stop using the Logo in my signature after all these years.

 

 

I can't see them going after you for this use. Just don't start making up t-shirts with the logo. :D

 

Charles Schultz once said in an interview that he spent far more time than he would like fighting unauthorized use of his "Peanut's" character, but he wanted to keep control of his intellectual propery.

 

Intellectual property is a very busy legal specialty. There is so much "piracy" of music and video products, designer clothes, etc. Tiffany is in the process of suing Costco over engagment rings sold at Costco, alleging that the rings said "Tiffany" inside, even though they were NOT made by Tiffany. Not sure I have those details exactly right. It was a little story on the news last night.

Edited February 16, 2013 by 3rdGenCunarder

[thinfool]

We where boarding in Fort Lauderdale. Eager and excited to be going on our first cruise, we were one of the first in line.

 

Of all the situations I have read on CC, yours is the most compelling and in need of resolution.

 

Have you contacted any ombudsman or consumer advocate in Tennessee? Or can you find one in Seattle, where HAL has HQ?

 

Can someone like Clark Howard help? It cannot hurt to ask.

 

You can file a request with your Visa or MC to reverse the charges for your cruise...to at least recover those funds.

 

Your copy of the HAL conversation puts the he said/she said issue to rest.

 

Finally, after all of this, please do not blame the people at the port. The phone reps are notorious (any cruise line) for making things up as they go along. Did you happen to get any names?

 

IMO, if someone working directly for HAL gave you wrong information and you completely missed your ship as a result, HAL has an obligation to make you whole...fine print on a cruise contract notwithstanding.

Edited February 16, 2013 by thinfool

[rafinmd]

The question about e-docs is a good one. We have passports, so we fill in those numbers, and don't wonder about alternate IDs. It's a while since I've done a closed-loop cruise. Do those docs require you to fill in information about identification?

 

We recently flew to Florida. When we did the preflight online info, we had to tell them what form of ID we would be using at check-in, even though it was just a domestic flight. It seems any means of travel beyond driving your own car requires some kind of ID nowadays.

 

I have done the online checkin with several cruise lines recently. My passport expires in November. I will start the renewal process immediately on return from my trans-Pacific cruise in May, and then will need to send the new passport out for a Brazil Visa for the Prinsendam. I hope to have the new passport finally back in time for my August Veendam Cruise, but I will definitely be using my current passport on that cruise. HAL's a bit of a special case here. They do differentiate among cruises and only list the options that are available for the cruise you are on. For the Veendam Canada they listed at least BC/Nexus/Sentry,Enhanced DL, and Passport Card but only after you said you did not have a passport. I had to lie a bit and say I didn't have a passport (not a big lie, I will not be able to use the passport I have on that cruise), but registered seamlessly otherwise with my NEXUS card.

 

Roy

[Tampa Girl]

My initial response was to blame the OP for not properly confirming the lack of a necessity for a passport, and I don't think that relying on a HAL telephone clerk is adequate confirmation. My opinion is also based on OP's negligence in waiting until a month before departure to confirm what documentation he needed.

 

HOWEVER, if, in fact, it was the captain of the ship which denied OP's boarding, I think that HAL was giving out negligent information in assuring OP that he had sufficient documentation. A HAL rep should know that the the final word is with the captain of the ship. The captain was surely within his right to deny boarding. If something had happened and OP had to be deposited in another country, the cruise line would be at fault. Under those circumstances, I think HAL should compensate OP for the family's expenses. And HAL needs to get their requirements clarified and consistent. In my opinion, passengers on any ship that stops at foreign ports should be required to have a passport. As I understand it, other cruise lines require this, do they not?

 

OP: I do sympathize with you and hope you do get some compensation. Also, I apologize because I had earlier referred to you as "she." Obviously, I did not read your initial post very carefully.

[PathfinderEss]

I do feel bad for the OP, it sounds like they did everything right, but got some wrong information. That is what happens when you are new at something, you believe people. Ofcourse it does not make up for missing the cruise and having to rearrange all their travel plans.

 

[nana51]

Wow! Thanks everyone for the empathy, encouragement, and support. Yes, I know I need to get a passport to avoid this in the future. Had the HAL rep told me this in the first place, instead of reassuring me that I would not need one, I could have gotten one. However, that is not what they told me (see chat convo transcript above), hence, the reason I did not get one, because, obviously based on the word of their own company representative, I would not need one.

 

While I appreciate the hindsight advice of all the experienced cruisers here, was an inexperienced newbie like me suppose to ignore the expert adamant reassurance of Holland America Lines own representative? Is the cruise line not accountable for the advice and recommendations of their own employees?:confused:

I sympathize totally with you. For those of us who didn't travel much, we don't realize all this stuff. If it had been my first cruise and HAL told me I didn't need a passport, I would have put off that expense to another time. I posted here a few days ago about my daughter wanting to take a 3 or 4 day cruise. I asked if they had any that didn't require a passport. Instead of an answer all I got were people telling me how stupid I was not to have a passport. Firstly, it was my daughter not me, secondly she has passports, but they are all due to be renewed. Being a single mom renewing 3 passports and taking a mini vacation wasn't really possible. So no vacation this year as she has decided to renew their passports and take a vacation next year. You would have thought I murdered someone since they assumed I didn't have a passport. I know it is a touchy subject with some people as Americans are notoriously without passports, but come on.....settle down.

[SilvertoGold]

My apologies to sail7seas. I assumed they where probably a HAL rep, since they where using the Holland America Lines logo in their signature. My bad. I will edit that out now. Thank you.

 

 

But, I do believe that she and her husband were the "Mariner Representatives" or Mariner Society Representatives" at one time.

 

Remember seeing their photo in the Mariner Magazine several years ago at a HAL ship launch.

[ejammer]

But, I do believe that she and her husband were the "Mariner Representatives" or Mariner Society Representatives" at one time.

 

Remember seeing their photo in the Mariner Magazine several years ago at a HAL ship launch.

"Surprise, surprise, surprise!" -Gomer Pyle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U :D

Edited February 16, 2013 by ejammer

[Tampa Girl]

I sympathize totally with you. For those of us who didn't travel much, we don't realize all this stuff. If it had been my first cruise and HAL told me I didn't need a passport, I would have put off that expense to another time. I posted here a few days ago about my daughter wanting to take a 3 or 4 day cruise. I asked if they had any that didn't require a passport. Instead of an answer all I got were people telling me how stupid I was not to have a passport. Firstly, it was my daughter not me, secondly she has passports, but they are all due to be renewed. Being a single mom renewing 3 passports and taking a mini vacation wasn't really possible. So no vacation this year as she has decided to renew their passports and take a vacation next year. You would have thought I murdered someone since they assumed I didn't have a passport. I know it is a touchy subject with some people as Americans are notoriously without passports, but come on.....settle down.

 

The law, unfortunately, presumes that you know "this stuff." In the case of passports, the information should come from the Department of State, and it is our responsibility to ascertain what that Department requires.

[djhsolara]

Irregardless of how/why/what happened, I can't imagine working hard to be able to vacation and get to the port only to be told I couldn't board the ship. While I've always had a passport I can relate because I had relatives with us last year that simply could not afford the additional costs associated with getting passports for a family of four. Luckily there were no issues but they knew there could have been had they needed to come home in an emergency situation. They are getting passports for their cruise this year.

 

I'm so glad, though, that this thread isn't actually about Eurodam as the title implies. Three weeks from right now we'll be on her for a week...we can't wait!!

 

 

Douglas...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cruzin Terri]

If you feel that HAL is completely at fault for providing incorrect information that resulted in your being denied boarding, and you have not received compensation from them for their misinformation, I suggest you contact a travel ombudsman such as Chris Eliot at http://www.eliott.org.

 

No one on this forum is going to make it right for you, they will just keep hounding home the fact that you needed a passport. We all know that. I hope this info helps you get some relief.

Terri

Edited February 16, 2013 by tbrein

[brazilgirl]

I think people are being a bit harsh. As stated by other posters , many CC members are world travelers and passports and visas are "old hat " . Traveling nowadays is very complex. I agree we all need to be informed and responsible for "studying up" before we go.

 

However , the OP did try to be informed. He did contact the cruiseline to verify that all was in order. He got some very wrong info and , being that he has documentation from the cruiseline confirming that all was in order , I believe he deserves compensation. HAL must be responsible for the info they give out. If the rep has doubts , they need to say " I will check on that and get back to you ".

 

OP , Conde Nast has a very good travel ombudsmen who intervenes on travelers behalf , think about contacting them.

 

Btw , I do not believe in litagation and such...but I think the cruiseline was wrong in this case and needs to make it right.

 

I am American and live abroad . All my kids are American citizens born abroad . They each have 2 passports. Can't tell you how many times I have seen people not board flights to Brazil because they didn't have visas....bad , but they should have checked.

 

The OP did his part ....HAL dropped the ball. IMHO

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[sail7seas]

But, I do believe that she and her husband were the "Mariner Representatives" or Mariner Society Representatives" at one time.

 

Remember seeing their photo in the Mariner Magazine several years ago at a HAL ship launch.

 

"Surprise, surprise, surprise!" -Gomer Pyle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U :D

 

 

There is no surprise, surprise, surprise,,,,,,,

 

It is hardly a secret anyone would try to keep but I do not run around this forum spouting about it.

 

DH and I were very honored to have been asked to be Mariners Ambassadors for Noordam at her Christening.

As such, we were asked to Bless Noordam's Bell. Hardly something one would be anything but honored and delighed about.

 

When we met many of HAL's Officers and Seattle Headquarters Individuals at the Christening, it was the first time we had ever spoken with or met any of them.

 

I posted a very lengthy thread about it here on CC if you wish to look for it. The Christening was February 22, 2006..... hard to believe it's seven years since.

 

You can google if you are interested in any more information.

Edited February 16, 2013 by sail7seas

[jtl513]

However, I cannot believe in this day an age that you didn't know that a Passport is required for travel out of country.

 

Passport!! very necessary.

 

I don't know how the OP could not have known that she needed a passport to travel outside the country.

This not true. BruceMuzz said his Carnival friends told him there were about 2,000 on the Triumph without passports. It depends on the countries the ship is visiting.

Edited February 16, 2013 by jtl513

[Cruzin Terri]

I don't want to see this thread get hijacked and go off into something we don't even recognize as the original posting.

 

I urge you to contact a travel ombudsman such as Chris Eliott at www.eliott.org or Conde Nast Traveler Magazine's ombudsman.

 

I had an issue with Delta Airlines once that I was unable to resolve and Chris Eliot came to the rescue. It was amazing how quickly they responded. It never got posted anywhere, he just gave the correct contact information. Within 24 hours, Delta issued a refund. I do admit that your situation may require a bit more intervention on his part.

Terri

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I feel bad for the OP and he obviously did do an initial attempt to obtain the correct information. But I do think that there was definitely missed communication between both the OP not being explicit of what his travel documents were and the HAL on line Rep not understanding and not asking the right questions and or making herself clear. Bottom Line is that when he purchased he would have received the following from Holland America on his cruise reservation #3 is the line that protects Holland America in this case and I have bold faced it.

 

IMPORTANT NOTICES:

All Holland America Line guests travel under the terms and conditions of the Cruise Contract that will be issued

to you and which may be provided upon request or viewed on our website: http://www.hollandamerica.com. Please

read the contract carefully as it affects your legal rights. Holland America Line reserves the right not to honor

any published prices that it determines were erroneous due to printing, electronic, or clerical error.

1. The Standard and Platinum Cancellation Protection Plans (CPP or CPPP) are optional and are available for purchase

prior to the date on which cancellation fees begin to accrue. Payment is due at time of purchase and is nonrefundable.

2. Holland America Line reserves the right to re-instate a fuel supplement for all guests at up to $9 per person per day

should the price of light sweet crude oil according to the NYMEX increase above $70 per barrel.

3. Guests are responsible for traveling with proper documentation including a passport valid for 6 months after travel,

proof of required immunizations & visa(s) and proof of eligibility to enter Canada (for applicable itineraries).

4. Changes to or cancellation of Air, Hotel Packages or Ground Transportation are subject to the above cancellation

fees.

5. For security reasons, first, middle (if applicable) and last names must match the government issued ID used for

boarding.

6. All guests are encouraged to complete our online check-in process to facilitate compliance with U.S. regulations and

avoid the risk of significant departure delays.

7. Holland America Line reserves the right to substitute hotels of similar category.

8. In keeping with the majority of guest preferences, we are changing our smoking policy as of January 15, 2012. For

cruises starting on or after this date, all stateroom interiors will be non-smoking. Your voyage is now covered under

this new policy. Guest that smoke in their staterooms once this change has taken place will be charged a $250.00

cleaning fee. Our policies on smoking in public areas are not changing. Consequently, while most public areas are

non-smoking, there are areas within each ship in which smoking is still permitted. In addition, smoking is permitted on

most outside decks and on stateroom verandahs. Cigar and pipe smoking is only permitted on the outside decks. For

more information, please visit us at http://www.hollandamerica.com.

 

Sadly this did not turn out well and it was obvious that the OP was concerned because he took the time to question.

[sail7seas]

This not true. BruceMuzz said his Carnival friends told him there were about 2,000 on the Triumph without passports. See post #30.

 

 

We'll likely not know the exact number but I heard it reported on several sources there were 900 sailing that Triumph cruise without passports.

 

[Cruzin Terri]

The correct link is www.elliott.org.

 

Sorry.

Terri

[jtl513]

We'll likely not know the exact number but I heard it reported on several sources there were 900 sailing that Triumph cruise without passports.

I have a theory that for many of the people sailing on RoyalC or Carnival on 7-day (or less) cruises out of FL this is their only form of foreign travel, and therefore they don't see the need for a passport, while most of us older folks on HAL have done European travel by air or trans-Atlantic cruises.

[sail7seas]

I have a theory that for many of the people sailing on RoyalC or Carnival on 7-day (or less) cruises out of FL this is their only form of foreign travel, and therefore they don't see the need for a passport, while most of us older folks on HAL have done European travel by air or trans-Atlantic cruises.

 

 

Makes sense and you are likely correct. :)

 

[Mary Ellen]

We'll likely not know the exact number but I heard it reported on several sources there were 900 sailing that Triumph cruise without passports.

 

From a thread about the Triumph back when it looked like she was going to be towed back to Mexico. When I saw the 900 amount I was surprised it seemed a VERY low number not to have passports for a 4-day closed loop cruise. I think the number Bruce reported as much closer to being accurate than the 900 reported on the CC.

 

Correction:

 

Guests WITH PASSPORTS will be flown home.

 

My friends at Carnival tell me that there are approximately 2,000 pax on Triumph who do not have passports. It is a closed loop cruise from the USA, so passports are not required.

 

Those 2,000 people can sit in the Yucatan for a few weeks waiting for a very expensive emergency passport - or they can ride a bus for a few days from Yucatan to the USA.

I'm still sorry the OP wasn't able to sail, but personal responsibility comes into play here. As Lisa pointed out, it is in the HAL contract that each passenger is responsible for having the required paperwork.

 

Posters claim that only 'world travelers' would know to have passports. As I mentioned earlier, DH is in the same situation being a US citizen born abroad. I certainly wouldn't say when we started cruising more than 30 years ago that we were 'world travelers'. At that time IIRC all we needed to go to/from Canada and Mexico was a drivers license or social security card. Yet we knew that DH's situation was different than the norm and that having passports was the best thing we could do to protect ourselves from potential problems. No one is going to care about our trip/safety/comfort more than us. We take final responsibility in making sure things are done right. We would rather be over prepared rather than risk being caught in a similar situation as the OP.

 

Like I said before, a passport is cheap insurance - and good for 10 years (9.5 in reality).

[3rdGenCunarder]

<snip>

 

Like I said before, a passport is cheap insurance - and good for 10 years (9.5 in reality).

 

The 6-month rule may be old, but I've only been aware of it in the last 5 years or so.

 

I've had friends who were unable to travel because they discovered too late that the passport was either expired or under the 6-month period. I've become so paranoid about the expiration dates on our passports that this thread has made me check them--even though we have no international travel booked at the moment!!

 

FIRST thing I do after I book international travel is get out the passports and check those dates.