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Holland America Lines Disasterdam


ejammer
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Did you have any sort of travel insurance? It would cover a lot of your expenses.

 

Here in the UK our travel insurance comes with our bank account (we pay a bit extra for it). Or is this just something we do in the UK/Europe? When I lived in the USA (until I was 20), I was always covered under my parents health insurance so never really had to worry about 'grown up' things like it!

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"In this day and age, to travel without a passport is a bad choice IMO

It is not always someone else's fault for the choices we make.

I agree HAL rep gave you poor advice but IMO it was poor choice on your part to elect to leave the U.S., travel voluntarily without a passport. In this day and age, I personally do not think that a good choice.

Just because you think you can do something, it doesn't mean you should."

 

Since you are a 5 star Mariner, you have the benefit of travel experience.

 

We all understand that passports are the best form of proof of citizenship.

 

But for whatever reason, many people travel on cruises without them. That's the way it is.

 

It was the OP's first cruise ! Can't we give him a break ?

 

He didn't have a passport, but he had what was okayed by HAL reps, and had the written documentation to back it up.

That's more than what most people who are denied boarding are able to produce.

 

I'm not saying he should have been allowed to sail.

My point is that to keep saying "should of had a passport" is a bit condescending, and that's unusual for HAL passengers.

We're a bit more gracious than that. Right, 5 Stars ?

 

Even if you think that saying a person should have had a passport is condescending, it is nonetheless the bottom line truth. How does one sugar coat that?

 

I feel very sorry for the OP and it seems he was badly misinformed by a HAL rep. However, sometimes complex citizenship arrangements would confuse a Philadelphia lawyer and a customer service rep is not someone whose opinion should be taken as gospel.

 

Perhaps HAL should insist that their reps not answer that type of question and refer the person instead to the appropriate government department to prevent such fiascos from happening in the future. Since, in this case, the rep did take it upon himself/herself to answer, then if I were the judge, I would award compensation to the OP.

 

Good luck to you in your efforts------and order that passport ASAP. :)

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Did you have any sort of travel insurance? It would cover a lot of your expenses.

 

Here in the UK our travel insurance comes with our bank account (we pay a bit extra for it). Or is this just something we do in the UK/Europe? When I lived in the USA (until I was 20), I was always covered under my parents health insurance so never really had to worry about 'grown up' things like it!

 

 

Many/most (?) travel insurance will not pay if travel was barred due to the traveler not having proper documents. That is not often a 'payable claim'.

 

But, if OP had insurance, by all means he should try to submit a claim.

 

 

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I don't want to see this thread get hijacked and go off into something we don't even recognize as the original posting.

 

I urge you to contact a travel ombudsman such as Chris Eliott at www.eliott.org or Conde Nast Traveler Magazine's ombudsman.

 

I had an issue with Delta Airlines once that I was unable to resolve and Chris Eliot came to the rescue. It was amazing how quickly they responded. It never got posted anywhere, he just gave the correct contact information. Within 24 hours, Delta issued a refund. I do admit that your situation may require a bit more intervention on his part.

Terri

 

very sage advice. I'm pretty sure that the Conde Nast ombudsman would like to get his teeth into this one - especially where the op has documentation;)

 

Definitely follow this advice op - it's very good IMO

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Perhaps HAL should insist that their reps not answer that type of question and refer the person instead to the appropriate government department to prevent such fiascos from happening in the future. :)

 

Or perhaps, they should just have their reps suggest that everyone carry a passport. Then they could never go wrong!

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I'm wondering if the OP realized that was the RSVP cruise that he missed.

 

Was it completely GLBT or just part of the guests?

I'm not sure what difference it would make. I don't believe there are different rules for travel documentation based on whether or not it is a charter.

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Thanks everyone for all the tips, and very helpful idea's here. I am definitely going to pursue the HAL "snail mail" one, and, even though I don't know what a "travel ombudsmen" is, that sounds like a good one to look into too. :)

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Thanks everyone for all the tips, and very helpful idea's here. I am definitely going to pursue the HAL "snail mail" one, and, even though I don't know what a "travel ombudsmen" is, that sounds like a good one to look into too. :)

 

A travel ombudsman would be a consumer advocate specific to the travel industry.

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Thanks everyone for all the tips, and very helpful idea's here. I am definitely going to pursue the HAL "snail mail" one, and, even though I don't know what a "travel ombudsmen" is, that sounds like a good one to look into too. :)

Look at your email. I gave you instructions on how to go about contacting Christopher Elliott.

Terri

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Thank you for your reply, HAL rep,sail7seas. Yes, having never been on a cruise before in my life, I was obviously concerned about the potentiality for confusion with my documentation. That is why I contacted Holland America Lines directly a month prior to our departure, as I explained multiple times in my post. After explaining in detail to them the exact nature of my documentation, and being reassured by a HAL representative, and her supervisor, that there would be no problem with going on this cruise with this birth certificate, any "hesitation" was relieved. As a "newbie", why should I have questioned the reassuring word and advice of the cruise lines "expert"?

Attaching a copy of the chat convo between me and the HAL representatives:

 

I don't know your age, but assuming you are an adult you must be aware that the US government will not anyone back into this country from anywhere without a passport. I'm sorry, but this one really is on you, not HAL. It doesn't matter what someone told you in an internet chat, the law is the law and the Department of Homeland Security is quite adamant about not letting anyone in without a passport.

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Thank you for your reply, HAL rep,sail7seas. Yes, having never been on a cruise before in my life, I was obviously concerned about the potentiality for confusion with my documentation. That is why I contacted Holland America Lines directly a month prior to our departure, as I explained multiple times in my post. After explaining in detail to them the exact nature of my documentation, and being reassured by a HAL representative, and her supervisor, that there would be no problem with going on this cruise with this birth certificate, any "hesitation" was relieved. As a "newbie", why should I have questioned the reassuring word and advice of the cruise lines "expert"?

Attaching a copy of the chat convo between me and the HAL representatives:

 

When in doubt about required documentation/visas, always call the U.S. State Department. Info is on their web site. Never trust a second source.

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In light of what happened on TRIUMPH now I hope veryone sees the necessity of a valid passport . Remember it is only good up to 6 months before expiration date ...You must keep an eye on that too and cruise company require it be valid for that long or they can refuse your passage . If you went thru all the trouble of checking with the cruise line ..you had to think or know perhaps a birth certificate would not be enough for your cruise ..Hindsight being 20 20 you did need a passport at that extra cost ...for us 120$..not sure for US citizens

Our gov't issued tiny birth certificates...wallet size at one time . I got them ...paid for them ...then they said they were not legal because parents info was not on it so I paid again to get the long ones ...NO i was not refunded .They changed the rules but I was bound to it so I coughed up the extra $$$$such is life and bureaucracy ...rules change and you must be prepared

Now we will need INternational Drivers licence to drive in Florida ...Who Knew ..I always drove with my Quebec license ...things do change

To got to US from Canada we need passports now ....never did before

So MORAL OF THE STORY ...Make sure your official docs are up to date

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I think personal responsibility is a very important concept . I try to follow tge 3 R s in my life : respect myself , respect others and take responsibilty for my actions.

 

Once again , the issue is HAL needs to take responsibilty for its employees ' actions , especially since the OP has proof in writing.

 

We are business owners ( we own and run Pathology labs ). If one of our employees gave out erroneous information in writing , we would be responsible for it. We may reprimend , fire , whatever , the employee , but ultimately we are responsible.

 

My husband is a physician . If he writes a prescription , he is responsible. A smart , saavy patient would look up the med online , double check med interactions ( I always do this when I go to the doctor ). I am responsible for what is put into my body. I do not take any medication without double checking. But that is because I know a lot about medicine . Not everyone is so well informed. They trust that their doctor is right. They trust he is responsible.

 

The OP trusted HAL ...he thought they knew the rules . Maybe he was naive. I check , double check , triple check everything I do before travelling. I am experienced in travel . The OP now will be more saavy. But he had a right to believe the company he was sailing with would give him the proper info. He had learned his lesson the hard way.

 

But HAL needs to follow the 3 Rs and be responsible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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I don't know your age, but assuming you are an adult you must be aware that the US government will not anyone back into this country from anywhere without a passport. ... and the Department of Homeland Security is quite adamant about not letting anyone in without a passport.
Once again: this NOT true on most closed-loop cruises. Several hundred (if not several thousand) on the Carnival Triumph had no passports, and that is the norm on most short closed-loop cruises ... sadly.

 

Now we will need INternational Drivers licence to drive in Florida ...
That law goes against the Geneva Convention and will not be enforced, and will be repealed or amended ASAP. Edited by jtl513
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Having a passport for identification is vital today in this world. And yes, thank those who wish to do people harm for creating all of these new rules .

 

But I have a special request of the original writer of this thread......it was not the Eurodam that caused this problem. Your title of EURODAM DISASTERDAM is untrue and very misleading for those who use this site for information.

 

With all the bad press about cruise travel right now as a result of another Carnival debacle , your title gives unfair press to a fairly reliable cruise line.

 

I will be traveling on the Eurodam in August . My daughter has been working for Holland America for 5 years,( on 5 different ships) and while I hear a few unfortunate stories your tale has nothing to do with the ship.

 

Thank you in advance for considering changing the title and I do hope you try cruising again. You will enjoy it.

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I think personal responsibility is a very important concept . I try to follow tge 3 R s in my life : respect myself , respect others and take responsibilty for my actions.

 

Once again , the issue is HAL needs to take responsibilty for its employees ' actions , especially since the OP has proof in writing.

 

We are business owners ( we own and run Pathology labs ). If one of our employees gave out erroneous information in writing , we would be responsible for it. We may reprimend , fire , whatever , the employee , but ultimately we are responsible.

 

My husband is a physician . If he writes a prescription , he is responsible. A smart , saavy patient would look up the med online , double check med interactions ( I always do this when I go to the doctor ). I am responsible for what is put into my body. I do not take any medication without double checking. But that is because I know a lot about medicine . Not everyone is so well informed. They trust that their doctor is right. They trust he is responsible.

 

The OP trusted HAL ...he thought they knew the rules . Maybe he was naive. I check , double check , triple check everything I do before travelling. I am experienced in travel . The OP now will be more saavy. But he had a right to believe the company he was sailing with would give him the proper info. He had learned his lesson the hard way.

 

But HAL needs to follow the 3 Rs and be responsible.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

The only problem with that analogy, however, is in the present case the error involves a person's knowledge of a law, and the law presumes that we have that knowledge. As an attorney, I would not consider this to be a very strong case for legal action (not that the OP or anyone else has suggested that) because HAL's defense is that the passenger is presumed to have known the law. That is where the issue of responsibility comes in. So your analogy of a business being responsible for negligence is really not apt. (Needless to say, other attorneys might disagree.) But what you and the rest of us are really saying is: The right thing for HAL to do is compensate because the negligently misled the OP into thinking he did not need a passport.

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The right thing for HAL to do is compensate because the negligently misled the OP into thinking he did not need a passport.
Once again: he did NOT need a passport, and the HAL reps did not mislead him. They did neglect to say (or possibly did not know) that he needed other supporting documentation to go with the birth certificate he has. See post #30. Edited by jtl513
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Once again: he did NOT need a passport, and the HAL reps did not mislead him. They did neglect to say (or possibly did not know) that he needed other supporting documentation to go with the birth certificate he has. See post #30.

 

First, it is not clear from this thread, and probably the OP is not clear, either, on what additional documentation was needed. However, quoting the OP: "Yes, I know I need to get a passport to avoid this in the future." What information have I missed which leads you to say that a passport was not needed? Was it explained why the captain refused him boarding? If so, I apologize for missing that. This whole thread has been about the necessity for carrying passports so that such confusion does not occur. Perhaps legally, he did not need one, but in this case he certainly could have used one.

 

I agree with a prior poster that HAL might re-consider giving any information regarding the sufficiency of documents, other than to advise getting a passport and contacting the Department of State.

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What information have I missed which leads you to say that a passport was not needed?
I referred you to post #30 which states " along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, ... Edited by jtl513
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OP, I'm sorry this happened to you. I can imagine it was devistating (sp).

 

If HAL gave you wrong information and you can prove it, I hope you will stay after HAL headquarters in Seattle until you get some appropriate satisfaction.

 

I've had HAL representatives and employees give me wrong information about a variety of matters over the years.

 

They make a lot of mistakes. This one should not have happened. IMO

Edited by DFD1
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There is a lot of wrong information here.

 

You DO NOT need a passport on a closed loop cruise in the Western Hemisphere. We have done Caribbean and Bermuda cruises for the last 10+ years and have only had passports the last 2 years.

 

When you do online dcumentation with HAL you either enter passport info or select your alternative ID which is birth certificate and DL.

 

The opinions of whether people are foolish to not have one are about as constructive as wheher you individually like jeans in the MDR. OP is not looking for our opinion but the FACTS-- and in this case you can read on the website passports are NOT required on closed loop cruises which is what he had booked.

The fact he was able to complete online check in without a passport number verifies this to any doubters. This does not apply to international flights or cruises to Europe, Asia, etc.

 

I hope HAL refunds his money as we should be able to trust the advice given when we call them. They should be ultimately responsible for what one is told by their staff.

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