Handwashing/Sanitizing

[sail7seas]

I agree with that, if they are so insisting I use their sanitizer each time, I'Ll be very angry about them, 57% of case of Norro contamination start with contaminated food or water http://www.about-norwalk.com/#transmission, yes dirty hands are a way the virus is moving in around 16% of the cases too. They wouldn't want everyone to know about this on any cruise lines cause they would have to face special inspections about their food and water supply that force the ship to stay anchored for awhile, blaming passengers is a quick way to have a ticket to continue cruising for them, I'm sure someone with a medical background can confirm this here, my doctor which is going to retire shortly and had more than 30 yrs of experience confirmed that. Yes the virus easy transmit with dirty hands and surface, its still a really good idea to have clean hands for meals and snack, but if you have to wash your hands 30 times during 1 cruise day, you won't want to see the results on your poor skin after awhile, besides that, dirty hands also force your body immune system to fight the normal virus that are everywhere, if your hands are always clean and sanitized one day your immune system will catch everything and won't fight anymore because he would be so weak so unable to protect you from anything.

 

 

All cruise ships that come into U.S. ports must Voluntarily submit to unannounced USPH Inspections. These inspections cover exactly the issues you mention as of concern. Few of our kitchens could begin to pass the rigid inspections conducted approximately every six months on these ships. If they refuse these inspections, that company's ships cannot come to U.S. ports. Canada has a similar inspection routine.

 

These inspections cover food storage, food handling, food preparation, dish washing, dish storage, service of all food, how long it can be held, dated trays/platters and bowls. It is a very rigid inspections and dishwasher water temperatures are measured, length of cycle, hand washing sinks in food prep areas and and and and and..... the list is very lengthy of all they inspect.

 

The results are published and all can read full reports of any deficiencies. If a ship scores under 86 of a possible 100 at such inspection, USPH has the right to hold that ship in port, deny it the right to load guests and sail until they correct any serious deficiencies.

 

 

 

 

 

As long as you don't touch anything between the room and dining room you are probably ok , but staff does not know that . A lot of illness is caused by surfaces we touch . I agree you don't want to be obsessive about it because that may affect immunity. However , I have worked as an RN in an NICU for over twenty four years with the littlest most fragile patients where I am constantly sanitizing my hands and it has not affected my immunity . I for one would want to do everything I could to keep from spreading organisms around on a cruise or on any closed type of environment where I will be in close proximity to others who may not be as healthy as I am . I think sanitizing your hands is a small price to pay to help do this even if it is inconvenient. Someone here said that it just moves germs around and they are still there. This is not true . If they do it effectively ( both sides of hands with friction for 20 seconds ) it does kill organisms . If you are concerned about skin breakdown use some lotion after sanitizing. That is what we do at work.

 

 

We've been told that moving the sanitizer around the hands is not very effective because it needs to stay wet for a given amount of time in order to kill bacteria but it dries far faster. If the liquid remained wet long enough, perhaps it would work but it dries quickly.

 

Have you ever heard this mentioned?

 

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

A HAL employee told us that the maximum times you should use hand sanitizer stuff is 3 times and then a thorough hand washing is required as the sanitizer loses its effectiveness. Don't know how accurate this is, but she seemed pretty confident about it.

[sail7seas]

I couldn't stand the feel of my hands if I'd had three applications of that gop and didn't wash it off ASAP. Ugh. I think it feels awful on my hands.

[SwissMyst]

.....

We've been told that moving the sanitizer around the hands is not very effective because it needs to stay wet for a given amount of time in order to kill bacteria but it dries far faster. If the liquid remained wet long enough, perhaps it would work but it dries quickly.

 

Have you ever heard this mentioned?

 

 

Yes, in prior threads going on for years the amount of contact time necessary for true surface decontamination has been set out. Just wiping things down doesn't do it for true sterilization, but people feel better doing this.

 

Which gets us back to hand-washing being good for the sheer physical removal as well as disposable wipes for sheer physical removal of the bulk of what ever offending contaminants might be present. Your body can handle a few stray bugs on its own - our wonderfully complex immune system.

 

Reducing the volume of contaminants by chemical or physical means is the name of the game. And breaking the chain of contamination from fingers to nose, eyes and mouth.

 

As long as I have been a traveller (over 50 years) one always had to deal with travellers GI ailments. We just called it different things, but its short-term distress was just as real. "Noro" is not new really.

 

On my very first cruise on the Chandris Fantasia all of us who took the overnight shore excursion to Cairo came back sick and the ship was thrown into a frenzy of distress for a few days (no ensuite bathrooms in those days so this was a very public purging), but I recall we all were laughing about it then -- the price for going to Cairo. So we probably picked up maybe a salmonella, E. coli or other GI bug, the effect was pretty much the same effect as the noro virus. And in a few days all was back to normal.

[Von2cruz]

Have you ever seen anyone rub hand sanitizer on their gands for anywhere near 20 seconds?! My guess 5 seconds is the average.

 

Are hand sanitizers in hospitals plain old Purell or is it perhaps virus killing sanitizers (that cost more)?

 

Our main sanitizers in the hospital are from a different company that also include moisturizers , but many of us also carry small bottles of Purell in our pockets . The disinfectant soap in patients rooms etc is very drying, and we usually use Purell when entering and then wash our hands when leaving the room. Yes, we do use friction for 20 seconds with this . We actually periodically have unknown sources monitoring our hand cleanliness regime while working. ( usually just a co-worker who had been elected to do it that day. ) This may seem a little extreme, but I work in the NICU .

[Von2cruz]

All cruise ships that come into U.S. ports must Voluntarily submit to unannounced USPH Inspections. These inspections cover exactly the issues you mention as of concern. Few of our kitchens could begin to pass the rigid inspections conducted approximately every six months on these ships. If they refuse these inspections, that company's ships cannot come to U.S. ports. Canada has a similar inspection routine.

 

These inspections cover food storage, food handling, food preparation, dish washing, dish storage, service of all food, how long it can be held, dated trays/platters and bowls. It is a very rigid inspections and dishwasher water temperatures are measured, length of cycle, hand washing sinks in food prep areas and and and and and..... the list is very lengthy of all they inspect.

 

The results are published and all can read full reports of any deficiencies. If a ship scores under 86 of a possible 100 at such inspection, USPH has the right to hold that ship in port, deny it the right to load guests and sail until they correct any serious deficiencies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We've been told that moving the sanitizer around the hands is not very effective because it needs to stay wet for a given amount of time in order to kill bacteria but it dries far faster. If the liquid remained wet long enough, perhaps it would work but it dries quickly.

 

Have you ever heard this mentioned?

 

The type we use at work doesn't really dry completely after 20 seconds, so perhaps it is different . I do know that it does kill some viruses , but lots of viruses are airborne , meaning spread when someone coughs, sneezes etc. the sanitizer does not need to stay wet, what is important is to let it dry naturally and not wipe it off with paper towels etc. You do need to use friction, the same as when you wash your hands and clean between your fingers and on backs of hands. This removes most organisms. When doing procedures or coming in to work nurses and doctors do a three minute scrub up to their elbows cleaning all surfaces of hands and a nail pick to get under the nails. This is no necessary for the regular public though . When we clean surfaces such as tables equipment etc, it does get left on wet to dry . Maybe that is what they were referring to.

[Von2cruz]

Yes, in prior threads going on for years the amount of contact time necessary for true surface decontamination has been set out. Just wiping things down doesn't do it for true sterilization, but people feel better doing this.

 

Which gets us back to hand-washing being good for the sheer physical removal as well as disposable wipes for sheer physical removal of the bulk of what ever offending contaminants might be present. Your body can handle a few stray bugs on its own - our wonderfully complex immune system.

 

Reducing the volume of contaminants by chemical or physical means is the name of the game. And breaking the chain of contamination from fingers to nose, eyes and mouth.

 

As long as I have been a traveller (over 50 years) one always had to deal with travellers GI ailments. We just called it different things, but its short-term distress was just as real. "Noro" is not new really.

 

On my very first cruise on the Chandris Fantasia all of us who took the overnight shore excursion to Cairo came back sick and the ship was thrown into a frenzy of distress for a few days (no ensuite bathrooms in those days so this was a very public purging), but I recall we all were laughing about it then -- the price for going to Cairo. So we probably picked up maybe a salmonella, E. coli or other GI bug, the effect was pretty much the same effect as the noro virus. And in a few days all was back to normal.

 

In order for things to be sterilized ( your hands etc are never sterilized , thus the sterile gloves health professionals use for those types of procedures ) they have to be disinfected and then steam cleaned in an autoclave like hospitals have . The object here is to remove as many organisms as possible .

[Von2cruz]

The type we use at work doesn't really dry completely after 20 seconds, so perhaps it is different . I do know that it does kill some viruses , but lots of viruses are airborne , meaning spread when someone coughs, sneezes etc. the sanitizer does not need to stay wet, what is important is to let it dry naturally and not wipe it off with paper towels etc. You do need to use friction, the same as when you wash your hands and clean between your fingers and on backs of hands. This removes most organisms. When doing procedures or coming in to work nurses and doctors do a three minute scrub up to their elbows cleaning all surfaces of hands and a nail pick to get under the nails. This is no necessary for the regular public though . When we clean surfaces such as tables equipment etc, it does get left on wet to dry . Maybe that is what they were referring to.

 

A HAL employee told us that the maximum times you should use hand sanitizer stuff is 3 times and then a thorough hand washing is required as the sanitizer loses its effectiveness. Don't know how accurate this is, but she seemed pretty confident about it.

 

She is correct. This is what we do at work. Actually we only use it twice before washing the next time . I'm an RN.

[Von2cruz]

What is more important (IMO) is how careful you are in the airports and on the plane before you ever get to the ship. Touch nothing that you don't have to! This is where a great many of the shipboard Noro cases are picked up, and the reason for the initial 48-hour Code Orange on HAL ships. Also be very careful when you are ashore in ports.

 

This is a very good point. I always wipe down the tray tables arm rests etc in my airplane seat . Also if possible turn off the water using a paper towel, otherwise you just put organisms right back on your hands.

[Von2cruz]

I've read baby wipes are effective and it makes some sort of reasonable sense that might be.

 

The best way to clean hands to avoid noro like viruses is frequent and thorough hand washing..... soap and water and enough friction with the soap to clean under nails and all fingers.

 

The sanitizer dispensed at the dining room only moves those germs around on your hands....... where do they go but still on your hands?

 

 

If the baby wipes contain alcohol (and some do not) they would work . Hand sanitizers need to be alcohol based to be effective. It does not just move around organisms , but kills most on hands if done properly . We have had studies and used a special light to see remaining organisms at work you need to use friction, clean in between the fingers and backs of hands( in other words the whole hand ) for at least 20 seconds and let it dry without using a paper towel .

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

I would recommend to everyone to ALWAYS take Germstar Noro hand sanitizer with you on your cruises. It's the same solution that's in those round automatic blue and white dispensers. Here is a link to their website if you've never been: http://www.germstar.com/us/ But you might want to check and see if they have stock on Amazon because shipping is cheaper their.

 

Interesting....NatashaSanders posted this on another old thread about this Germstar Noro Hand Sanitizer. I had not heard of it, but it is indeed on Amazon for $18 for six 2-oz. bottles. It may be worth it........

[Northshorecruisers]

Interesting....NatashaSanders posted this on another old thread about this Germstar Noro Hand Sanitizer. I had not heard of it, but it is indeed on Amazon for $18 for six 2-oz. bottles. It may be worth it........

 

The person "NatashaSanders" joined CC this month and the 2 posts she's done are an advertisment for this product. She's resurrecting old posts to do an ad.

[SwissMyst]

Interesting....NatashaSanders posted this on another old thread about this Germstar Noro Hand Sanitizer. I had not heard of it, but it is indeed on Amazon for $18 for six 2-oz. bottles. It may be worth it........

 

Germstar admits on their website their active ingredient is alcohol, in varying percentages. Over a dollar an ounce for alcohol? You are better off dousing your hands in good vodka.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

The person "NatashaSanders" joined CC this month and the 2 posts she's done are an advertisment for this product. She's resurrecting old posts to do an ad.

 

Whoops! And I fell right down the rabbit hole, didn't I? Ha!

[innlady1]

What brand of wipes do you use? And thanks!

 

WetOnes...I've read they're effective on the norovirus.

[SwissMyst]

WetOnes...I've read they're effective on the norovirus.

 

Copied from the net and it does have a footnote to a PubMed study -- don't know if there is more updated information:

 

Internet rumors say that Wet Ones® Antibacterial Wipes kill norovirus. However, this is NOT TRUE.

 

I contacted the Playtex® company (on January 8, 2009) who makes Wet Ones® Antibacterial wipes, and they told me that their wipes have not been tested for their ability to kill norovirus or rotavirus.

 

The active ingredient, Benzethonium Chloride HAS recently been tested for its ability to kill norovirus and it DID NOT KILL NOROVIRUS.(3)

 

There is a related compound called benzalkonium chloride which has been shown to kill norovirus in ONE research paper but it is not contained in these wipes.(4)

 

Benzalkonium chloride is contained in many foaming hand sanitizers such as Germ-X foaming hand sanitizer and Pampers Kandoo kids hand sanitizer. The Germ-X foaming hand sanitizer and the Pampers Kandoo kids do not CLAIM to kill norovirus, though, so I can't be sure if they really do. I write more about these sanitizers on the next page.

 

 

NB: Benzalkonium chloride is used in med/dental offices for long-contact cold sterilization to the TB level. (alko)

Tricky: Benzethonium chloride is what is allegedly found in WetOnes. (etho)

[Boytjie]

Copied from the net and it does have a footnote to a PubMed study -- don't know if there is more updated information:

 

Internet rumors say that Wet Ones® Antibacterial Wipes kill norovirus. However, this is NOT TRUE.

 

I contacted the Playtex® company (on January 8, 2009) who makes Wet Ones® Antibacterial wipes, and they told me that their wipes have not been tested for their ability to kill norovirus or rotavirus.

 

The active ingredient, Benzethonium Chloride HAS recently been tested for its ability to kill norovirus and it DID NOT KILL NOROVIRUS.(3)

 

There is a related compound called benzalkonium chloride which has been shown to kill norovirus in ONE research paper but it is not contained in these wipes.(4)

 

Benzalkonium chloride is contained in many foaming hand sanitizers such as Germ-X foaming hand sanitizer and Pampers Kandoo kids hand sanitizer. The Germ-X foaming hand sanitizer and the Pampers Kandoo kids do not CLAIM to kill norovirus, though, so I can't be sure if they really do. I write more about these sanitizers on the next page.

 

 

NB: Benzalkonium chloride is used in med/dental offices for long-contact cold sterilization to the TB level. (alko)

Tricky: Benzethonium chloride is what is allegedly found in WetOnes. (etho)

 

Interesting; thanks for posting it.

 

Amazingly the most effective, easily available, and free way to clean your hands is to wash it with hot water and soap. :D

[sail7seas]

Interesting; thanks for posting it.

 

Amazingly the most effective, easily available, and free way to clean your hands is to wash it with hot water and soap. :D

 

 

Why does HAL always have only cold water in public restrooms? I've never had a

faucet that poured hot water but for in our cabin. :confused: One would think with all the other

steps they take to avoid Noro, they'd make sure hot water comes out of the sink faucets.

 

 

[Northshorecruisers]

Internet rumors say that Wet Ones® Antibacterial Wipes kill norovirus. However, this is NOT TRUE.

You mean you can't believe everything you read on the internet???? :eek:

I use the hand sanitizing dispensers around the ship even though I feel they do no good. I subscribe to the wash, wash, wash practice. Having had noro once - I'll do anything I can to not have it happen again!

[Boytjie]

Why does HAL always have only cold water in public restrooms? I've never had a

faucet that poured hot water but for in our cabin. :confused: One would think with all the other

steps they take to avoid Noro, they'd make sure hot water comes out of the sink faucets.

 

You have me thinking now... I thought I remember hot water in the public bathrooms but can't be 100% sure . Where is a picture when you need one? I thought there were two faucets.

[sail7seas]

Yes, Peter.

There are two faucets in the ladies' rooms (can't speak for the men's room :D) but cold water comes out of each. I always notice there never is hot water in any of the public rest rooms, ship to ship.......

 

[SwissMyst]

Why does HAL always have only cold water in public restrooms? I've never had a

faucet that poured hot water but for in our cabin. :confused: One would think with all the other

steps they take to avoid Noro, they'd make sure hot water comes out of the sink faucets.

 

 

 

Hand washing with soap any water temperature will work. Running hot water continuously in the pipes to have it ready on demand everywhere is probably not cost effective. (I don't know though) Soap, water and at least 20 seconds will still work, so keep it up.

[Boytjie]

Yes, Peter.

There are two faucets in the ladies' rooms (can't speak for the men's room :D) but cold water comes out of each. I always notice there never is hot water in any of the public rest rooms, ship to ship.......

 

 

I am pretty sure I have had hot water in the public restrooms, especially since the I believe CDC guidelines were to wash it with the hottest water you can handle. I just checked their web site again and on one page it says warm or cold water but on another (for cruises particularly) to use warm water.

 

Maybe the RSVP passengers just wash their hands more often and therefore the warm water pipes stay warm :D

[Typhoon1]

We always pick up a bottle of Anti bacterial soap for use in the cabin. It's quick and simple to use when walking back into your cabin.

[SwissMyst]

CDC hand washing video online makes no mention of hot water; just soap and water. Rinse them down the drain is the trick, no matter what water temperature. At least 20 seconds of washing and rinsing is more critical than any particular water temperature is what I took away from this. http://www.cdc.gov/cdctv/handstogether/