Why No Lifeguard?

[Karysa]

My question is simple ..... WHY was not AT LEAST one that 4 year old's parents in the pool with him, or at least sitting on the edge of the pool, where they would have been able to see and be within reach of the child at all times?

IMO, this incident is a result of neglectful parenting.

 

Am I the only one that doesn't think that the parents knew that the child was in the pool? I admit I did not read the article because it makes my stomach hurt reading things like that in detail, but what parent would knowingly have a 4 year old swim in a 5ft deep pool without adult supervision at hand irregardless of a lifeguard being on duty or not.

 

I can only think that mom thought dad was watching the child and dad thought that mom was and the child went into the pool alone during this time.

 

Who among us has not lost sight of one of their children for a moment?

I feel so sad for the child, and the parents.

[Heartfruit]

Would the need one at each pool? This would be several additional employees. They would take cabin space. That would either stretch the staff a little further or eliminate a passenger cabin or two and the revenues for them.

 

They would actually need at least two for each pool. Lifeguards work in pairs, one is actively watching the pool and the other is standing by in case they need help. Active watching is a difficult activity to keep up for too long. As humans our minds tend to wonder. So the lifeguards will switch off jobs every 10 to 15 min.

[navybankerteacher]

Am I the only one that doesn't think that the parents knew that the child was in the pool? I admit I did not read the article because it makes my stomach hurt reading things like that in detail, but what parent would knowingly have a 4 year old swim in a 5ft deep pool without adult supervision at hand irregardless of a lifeguard being on duty or not.

 

I can only think that mom thought dad was watching the child and dad thought that mom was and the child went into the pool alone during this time.

 

Who among us has not lost sight of one of their children for a moment?

I feel so sad for the child, and the parents.

 

Of course the parents (collectively) did not "know" that the child was in the pool. But when you bring a four years old anywhere, with a couple of thousand strangers, it should be your business to KNOW, not just hope or think, that one of the two is in charge. Presumably someone helped him change into his bathing suit.

 

I hope that no negligence charges arise no good would come of that --- but the whole tragedy (even if the child recovers, as everyone hopes) should not be forgotten.

[Karysa]

Of course the parents (collectively) did not "know" that the child was in the pool. But when you bring a four years old anywhere, with a couple of thousand strangers, it should be your business to KNOW, not just hope or think, that one of the two is in charge. Presumably someone helped him change into his bathing suit.

 

I hope that no negligence charges arise no good would come of that --- but the whole tragedy (even if the child recovers, as everyone hopes) should not be forgotten.

 

We have all been there. You look up from raking the leaves and your 4 year old is on the other side of the street. Could have been hit by a car and people would be saying the same awful things about you. I am not going to be so self righteous to judge these parents.

[donnad1962]

We have all been there. You look up from raking the leaves and your 4 year old is on the other side of the street. Could have been hit by a car and people would be saying the same awful things about you. I am not going to be so self righteous to judge these parents.

 

Here here, I lost my DD on a busy boardwalk when she was 3, it was scare for all of us, she is now 25,

Accidents happen that's why they call it accidents, we should not judge

[BruceMuzz]

I was thinking along the same lines. If it is posted that there is no lifeguard and you swim at your own risk, might that not protect the cruise line more than having a lifeguard? It would be interesting to hear from a lawyer about this.

 

You have the correct answer.

 

Most cruise lines and their ships are under the authority of US Liability laws.

In America, if you have a lifeguard at your pool and someone is injured or drowns, the company is liable for possibly millions in compensation.

 

If you have no lifeguard - but instead have a sign that says "Swim at your own risk", there is very little liability for the company.

In America it is safer and cheaper to let a customer drown than to try and save his life.

[Tiggertastic]

On the last cruise, we counted 18 children in the hot tub all looking to be under 10. The sign said 'children must be supervised by an adult at all times' - we even laughed as 5 more climbed the steps and we wondered where they were going to go.

 

There was not one adult by the hot tub - so it's so easy for something to go wrong

 

It was known as the kids soup tub by the cruisers

 

Not once did we see any staff ask where adults were, only saw them removing the plastic cups from them that the kids were using to pour the water onto the deck that others were slipping on.

[Karysa]

Who knows a lifeguard or a fence may be the future. We have to have a fence around our pools where we live.

[navybankerteacher]

You have the correct answer.

 

Most cruise lines and their ships are under the authority of US Liability laws.

In America, if you have a lifeguard at your pool and someone is injured or drowns, the company is liable for possibly millions in compensation.

 

If you have no lifeguard - but instead have a sign that says "Swim at your own risk", there is very little liability for the company.

In America it is safer and cheaper to let a customer drown than to try and save his life.

 

A commentary on the unfortunate litigiousness of our society, and the unfortunate legal system which supports it. Until "good samaritan" laws were passed, only a foolish doctor would offer to help a stranger with a medical emergency: too many doctors doing so had been sued by the ungrateful who saw a chance to make a buck.

[smeyer418]

any thing new on the child?

[BeagleOne]

One article said that all of the family members were wearing their swimsuits and that the parents were with their two other children. I didn't see anything saying how old the other kids were.

 

I hope the little guy pulls through and makes a full recovery.

[BeagleOne]

The family has a webpage on the little guy, the youngest of their three kids. Sadly, the most recent update is not good. It looks like they established the page soon after the accident and they've made his and their names public. They're the Lykken family from Minnesota and the little boy's name is Chase.

[candeygirl11]

From what I know, some cruises have certain times/days of the week where the entire kids club would go to the pool together, having their own time to swim at the pool, and they would be watched by the adults.

Usually, if a child is in the pool, their parents should be watching them, the parents are responsible for the kids.

[smeyer418]

Thanks for the update. my prayers are with the little guy :(

[BeagleOne]

From what I know, some cruises have certain times/days of the week where the entire kids club would go to the pool together, having their own time to swim at the pool, and they would be watched by the adults.

Usually, if a child is in the pool, their parents should be watching them, the parents are responsible for the kids.

 

From what I've read on the little boy's page, where some people who witnessed the incident are posting now that they're back from the cruise, it was pre-departure and the kids' clubs weren't open yet. The pool area was apparently jam-packed and there were a LOT of kids in the pool.

 

That pool has a step where you'd be only ankle-deep or so but then it drops off into about five feet of water. No one knows how the boy got in the pool...whether he stepped off the step, or fell in, or jumped in, or was pushed, or what. And so far I've seen nothing about how he got away from his parents; they and the two older children were also on that deck, in their swimsuits, when this happened.

 

One of the witnesses reported that an adult pulled the little boy out and a lady started CPR. His color wasn't good and he wasn't moving. Then the parents came running over. The most recent medical updates aren't very promising for long-term recovery; it sounds like the poor little guy has some very serious brain damage and whether he can ever recover to any extent is just not known yet.

 

They're talking about taking him home to Minnesota for further care and rehab but not sure he's stable enough to leave the hospital yet.

 

Poor little guy.

[Athankfulheart]

The family has a Facebook page under the name given in a prior post.

They flew home today to Minnesota. Praying for the best outcome. The page gives pretty detailed updates on his medical condition.

[Nebr.cruiser]

Oh My Goodness! Better not to have life guards! Some parents would consider them "baby sitters"! :rolleyes:

 

LuLu

~~~~

 

Actually, this isn't funny. I was a lifeguard at a local pool during college. Rules had to be made that no one under six could be in the pool without an adult or teen-aged babysitter.

 

Otherwise, yes, unbelievably, people would send their 5's and under to the pool with slightly older siblings, or drop them off for the whole afternoon by themselves; in other words, the pool employees were essentially babysitting.

 

We live on a lake; so do one of our sons and their kids. All of we adults are strong swimmers; I can swim long distances/hours with no problem. I still don't swim alone in our lake; I wear a ski belt if I am swimming across the lake.

 

With raising four grandkids at the lake--and I mean, our houses are maybe 20-30 feet from the water--we are hyper-vigilent, with no kids ever, ever swimming without adult supervision. We take every precaution possible.

 

With that said, no matter how careful someone is, all it takes is a moment's distraction; no one is so perfect that they don't look away for a second. I'm not sure from the reports if the parents were actually at the pool, but if they were, it is certainly possible to be watching closely and still miss that one terrible moment.

 

Once, at the beach near our house, a 3 year old granddaughter, who could already swim pretty well and wasn't afraid of the water, just walked in and kept walking. I caught her as her eyes were going under. She was not struggling, screaming or anything, just quietly on her way to drowning--and I was in the water with her, just looked over to another child for a second.

 

People don't realize that drowning victims may just slip under with no fuss, especially small children.

 

Now that the oldest kids are rising 14, it's almost scarier, as they are great swimmers but still have that kid/teen perception that they are invincible, not to mention what can happen with a group of teens and water sports.

[BeagleOne]

Anyone who ever goes NEAR the water should read "Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning" by Mario Vittone. He has an eponymous website and the article is linked to on the front page. Be sure to click on the link at the end of the article to see a video of how easily someone can drown in a crowded area while dozens of people don't even notice...but don't worry about seeing something you don't want to see, the person is saved in the end.

 

And for pity's sake, everyone, PLEASE learn CPR if you are physically capable of doing it!!!! It only takes a few hours and it's a very easy skill to master. The ONLY reason the poor Disney boy even made it to the hospital was that there were a couple of adult passengers on-scene who knew CPR. If no one does CPR, by the time the medical personnel arrive, it's too late.

[notentirelynormal]

Once, at the beach near our house, a 3 year old granddaughter, who could already swim pretty well and wasn't afraid of the water, just walked in and kept walking. I caught her as her eyes were going under. She was not struggling, screaming or anything, just quietly on her way to drowning--and I was in the water with her, just looked over to another child for a second.

 

I laughed and then cried (damn still crying!) at your comment. The innocence of children is amazing. No other words can explain your experience.

 

I am either in the pool with the kids/grandkids or I am sitting right there next to them. I've had to jump in when I thought they weren't able to keep up. That's what parents/grandparents do.

 

I'm sorry this happened to this family but I would never ever let my child in the pool without being there next to them.

 

Your experience just backs up the whole point. You can't take your eyes of them for a second.

[pdmlynek]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-04-09/news/os-disney-fantasy-near-drowning-update-20130409_1_cruise-ship-disney-fantasy-port-Canaveral

 

https://www.facebook.com/ChaseLykken

[Nebr.cruiser]

I laughed and then cried (damn still crying!) at your comment. The innocence of children is amazing. No other words can explain your experience.

 

I am either in the pool with the kids/grandkids or I am sitting right there next to them. I've had to jump in when I thought they weren't able to keep up. That's what parents/grandparents do.

 

I'm sorry this happened to this family but I would never ever let my child in the pool without being there next to them.

 

Your experience just backs up the whole point. You can't take your eyes of them for a second.

 

Absolutely. And you, the parent, are ultimately responsible for your child, even if lifeguards are present. As a former lifeguard, at a pool that was very difficult to watch due to and old-fashioned layout (built by the WPS), it is literally impossible for the lifeguards to be watching and/or seeing every person for every second.

 

We are very lucky in our town that our nearly 80 year old pool has never had a drowning. I personally don't let anyone under the age of 10, good swimmer or not, go to a pool without me or another responsible adult.

[CraftyEC]

Once, at the beach near our house, a 3 year old granddaughter, who could already swim pretty well and wasn't afraid of the water, just walked in and kept walking. I caught her as her eyes were going under. She was not struggling, screaming or anythingxactly wh, just quietly on her way to drowning--and I was in the water with her, just looked over to another child for a second.

 

People don't realize that drowning victims may just slip under with no fuss, especially small children.

 

 

This is almost exactky what happened to us, as I described in a post above. DS was almost two and had learned to 'swim' (with armbands) just a few days previously, in some hot springs in Hamnr, in New Zealand. Sitting in those hot pools he was always within reach of any of the adults in the small pools. A few days later we had moved on to the Marlborough Sounds and were staying, with our NZ extended family in a holiday 'bach'. Friends of theirs were staying in another bach, and we visited them one day. This was very remote, and only accessibly by boat - about 20 minutes by speedboat from the nearest road. My BIL and his friend were setting up the speed boat to use for watersports for the older children and my SIL, friend and myself were helping the little ones get changed and slathering them with sunblock. The only one without a specific task was DH, and he wandered out along the little jetty, lost in thought. He looked up and saw DS (who he had left under my supervision) walking out through the water towards him, with no apparent fear, and as the water got deeper he kept walking until it closed over his head! So, only seconds after I had seen DS there was a yell and a splash as DH jumped into the water and scooped DS up, who was already limp, but he did start to breath. Children have a breath-holding reflex in water which is protective, and had worked on this occasion! One of the other men had to go back into the water to rescue DH's hat (not essential) and spectacles (absolutely essential). We were so isolated that, despite the ludicrous number of medics (three doctors, two nurses and a dentist, i.e. all six adults) had he not been spotted for a very short time longer the situation could have been tragic. And he WAS being closely supervised, but unless you have one to one supervision (difficult with more children than adults) things can go wrong with just a few minutes distraction.

 

I suspect that the family in the Disney situation were busy 'supervising' getting the three children ready to swim, probably with each parent giving appropriate attention to the two other children and distracted momentarily from the third, when an excited young child 'couldn't wait' and wandered over to the pool, walking into deep water, with terrible consequences.

 

So, for those who say the parents were clearly negligent, and bear full responsibility, please remember that these things can happen in seconds, literally, and no parent has ever been 100% totally vigilant for every moment of their offspring's childhood, whatever they may say. If you had two children at a beach and one was stung by a bee, would you really keep your eye on the second one for every second?

[CraftyEC]

Sorry the quote didn't work, I'm on a laptop with a truly evil touch pad that just moves stuff round randomly. I'm off to try to switch it off!

[donnad1962]

Like I quoted before, that's why they call it an accident. We truly can't blame ourselves when things like this happen, that will accomplish nothing..

[ehfl]

I'm not sure why they would need life guards. People are going on a ship after all, surrounded by water. There are pools on board, and beaches at every port. Those that are not comfortable with all this water everywhere, are probably not likely to take a cruise vacation, and if they do, they're not likely to go in the pool.