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What will Carnival Corp do to compete in NY?


bob brown

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With all the excitement of the reveal of the new RCI Quantum, coming to Cape Liberty, an the new NCL Breakway coming to Manhattan, what will Carnival Corporation do to compete?

Perhaps they should think hard about bringing one of their newbuilds here from one of their lines...perhaps the new Regal Princess or something similar...other wise, they will have to compete by offering bargain fares with what they now have here....

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the Money they are giving to the people of the triumph and other burnt ship, they will give all those who were on it a free trip, that is what hey will do and fly and cruise all of them from NY

 

JK

 

like other businesses bring out a ship as well. offer a price.......

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With all the excitement of the reveal of the new RCI Quantum, coming to Cape Liberty, an the new NCL Breakway coming to Manhattan, what will Carnival Corporation do to compete?

Perhaps they should think hard about bringing one of their newbuilds here from one of their lines...perhaps the new Regal Princess or something similar...other wise, they will have to compete by offering bargain fares with what they now have here....

 

Hopefully they will consider bringing a HAL ship back - to offer an option to their "traditionalist" market who are left cold by the floating amusement parks NCL and RCI provide.

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Hopefully they will consider bringing a HAL ship back - to offer an option to their "traditionalist" market who are left cold by the floating amusement parks NCL and RCI provide.

Yes....it would be nice if HAL would bring the Nieuw Amsterdam to her namesake city...but I'd be happy to see any of those 'Dam Ships' homeported here, for the reason you mentioned.

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Yes....it would be nice if HAL would bring the Nieuw Amsterdam to her namesake city...but I'd be happy to see any of those 'Dam Ships' homeported here, for the reason you mentioned.

 

Having sailed Noordam to the Caribbean in January '07 and '08 - fully booked both times, I cannot see why HAL pulled out. They could charge much higher fares than for comparable winter cruises from Florida as the New York market woul not have to pay airfare and hotel expenses - while avoiding the hassle of winter flights.. Also, there being far fewer New York departures, the competition they faced would be easier. Hard to figure their rationale.

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Having sailed Noordam to the Caribbean in January '07 and '08 - fully booked both times, I cannot see why HAL pulled out. They could charge much higher fares than for comparable winter cruises from Florida as the New York market woul not have to pay airfare and hotel expenses - while avoiding the hassle of winter flights.. Also, there being far fewer New York departures, the competition they faced would be easier. Hard to figure their rationale.

 

Possible reason?

 

Sailing from Florida in winter you almost always have warm temperatures for the entire voyage. Sailing from NYC you miss at least a day each way when the temperatures are not conducive to outside activities. Just a thought.

 

I agree that it would be nice for the northeast to have an alternative to the "floating amusement parks" as you called them.

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Possible reason?

 

Sailing from Florida in winter you almost always have warm temperatures for the entire voyage. Sailing from NYC you miss at least a day each way when the temperatures are not conducive to outside activities. Just a thought.

 

I agree that it would be nice for the northeast to have an alternative to the "floating amusement parks" as you called them.

 

Of course the NCL and RCI have the same weather conditions -- and their customer base is more water-park, climbing-wall oriented than the more sedate, traditionalist HAL demographic, who would have less problem with (and might even enjoy) a blustery day at sea. On both my January HAL sailings we were in 70 degree weather early afternoon of the first sea day.

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HAL's Noordam, as a gorgeous new build, sailed from NY for a while.

They gave up and moved to homeport in FLL for the winter.

New Yorkers and surrounding would not pay a decent fare/spend anything on board and, I have been told, that is the reason Noordam left NY.

 

We sailed 11 days round trip from NY to the Caribbean and loved it. That was a terrific cruise. We were very lucky we had great weather but that, of course, cannot be counted on when sailing from the northeast in winter.

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HAL's Noordam, as a gorgeous new build, sailed from NY for a while.

They gave up and moved to homeport in FLL for the winter.

New Yorkers and surrounding would not pay a decent fare/spend anything on board and, I have been told, that is the reason Noordam left NY.

 

We sailed 11 days round trip from NY to the Caribbean and loved it. That was a terrific cruise. We were very lucky we had great weather but that, of course, cannot be counted on when sailing from the northeast in winter.

 

I've heard this, but find it hard to believe that any New Yorker would not happily pay HAL's Florida-based fare PLUS what they would have had to pay for winter season round-trip air fare to Florida PLUS a night's motel stay if they could sail from New York. Many of HAL's Florida-sailing passengers must come from New York anyway -- so why would they spend any more on board sailing from there?

 

Any sailing from New York to the Caribbean will in Gulf Stream waters in less than 24 hours.

 

Finally, NCL and RCI have to cope with the same (possibly cheaper) demographic -- and seem to do OK.

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There are a great many things I find hard to believe. :D

 

I heard this explanation from enough 'should know' people that I accept they likely know of what they speak. The fuel consumption was huge and the competition for low fares made for a bad combination. Add to that people not spending on board, and it is conceivable (to me), lack of profit explains the cessation of Noordam sailing from NYC.

 

Yes, I 'get it' that the competition also had the high fuel costs but maybe they had 'better spenders'? :D

 

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There are a great many things I find hard to believe. :D

 

I heard this explanation from enough 'should know' people that I accept they likely know of what they speak. The fuel consumption was huge and the competition for low fares made for a bad combination. Add to that people not spending on board, and it is conceivable (to me), lack of profit explains the cessation of Noordam sailing from NYC.

 

Yes, I 'get it' that the competition also had the high fuel costs but maybe they had 'better spenders'? :D

 

I have to acknowledge that your take is probably right. Of course HAL's management know their business better than I could -- and they would not lightly exit a profitable market. Perhaps the folks who like the big, busy (and to me, ugly) ships of NCL and RCI are sufficiently better spenders to make New York a profitable port of embarkation for them. It won't be the first (and I certainly doubt it will be the last) time that I find myself out of step.

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I have to acknowledge that your take is probably right. Of course HAL's management know their business better than I could -- and they would not lightly exit a profitable market. Perhaps the folks who like the big, busy (and to me, ugly) ships of NCL and RCI are sufficiently better spenders to make New York a profitable port of embarkation for them. It won't be the first (and I certainly doubt it will be the last) time that I find myself out of step.

 

 

On that, I fully agree.

 

I'm also a remarkably out of step cruiser in your scenario. :)

 

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P.S. I just did some price comparison: balcony on NCL Breakaway 12 nights sailing Jan 19 from New York: $1,949 and 11 night Zuiderdam from Fort Lauderdale $1,999; or 10 night Noordam $1,699. So HAL is able to get their price from Florida -- but I would have to pay at least $600 transportation plus $125 motel additional to sail HAL. So, I think I'll fly to St. Maarten in January instead. I cannot imagine sailing on the Breakaway.

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I sailed the 11 day on the Noordam during its first winter from NY. Was so sad that they pulled it from here. And HAL ships would seemingly be ideal to sail from here with the sliding magradomes over the lido pool....no cold weather problems at all....

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Having sailed Noordam to the Caribbean in January '07 and '08 - fully booked both times, I cannot see why HAL pulled out. They could charge much higher fares than for comparable winter cruises from Florida as the New York market woul not have to pay airfare and hotel expenses - while avoiding the hassle of winter flights.. Also, there being far fewer New York departures, the competition they faced would be easier. Hard to figure their rationale.

 

Several people here are making the assumption that Carnival wants to compete in New York. They really do not - nor do several other lines.

 

Please remember this: It is ALWAYS about the money.

 

New Yorkers are reasonably good onboard spenders - but they spend far more going North from New York, than going South.

The viable Canada/New England season is rather short, so has limited appeal to the cruise line companies.

New York is a very expensive port to call at; Boston is far less expensive.

People wanting to sail out of New York are also willing to get themselves to Boston, saving us big money. As a result, many of our Canada/New England voyages are calling at Boston (this also saves fuel).

Also, Boston pax spend more money onboard than New Yorkers.

 

Sailing South from New York is a challenge.

More often than not, the weather and seas work against us, increasing fuel costs and causing additional wear and damage to the hull and equipment.

The first day or two heading South - and the final day or two heading North - are quite often cold and bumpy. People do not spend much money onboard when they are seasick and/or freezing. Onboard Revenues for cruises from New York to the Caribbean are usually disappointing. It is far more cost effective for us to have you fly yourselves to the Caribbean to take a cruise with us.

 

Then we have another problem. (Remember, it's ALWAYS about the money).

We can put a ship in New York, sailing to the Caribbean. The fuel costs will nearly double, port costs are very high, and onboard spending will drop nearly 50%.

Or we can leave it in Australia, with lower fuel costs, lower port costs, no CBP, and double the onboard spending.

 

Assuming that YOU owned a cruise line - and were not planning to have it listed as a charity organization - where would YOU put your ships?

 

The only cruise lines that offer free passage for children, or place their ships in ports that are not profitable are having trouble competing on an even playing field.

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We also sailed on HAL a couple of years when it sailed out of NY. Then we sailed on RCI a couple of years out of NJ. This past winter we sailed on NCL out of NY. We've already booked a Princess for winter 2014 out of Fla. We don't like or want to fly to Fla but RCI and NCL are just not to our liking. We pretty much stick to PRincess/HAL/Celebrity. We did the Veendam a couple of years to Bermuda out of NY and we're going next month on the Summit out of NJ to Bermuda. The Veendam no longer sails to Bermuda out of NY either, and Princess used to sail out of Brooklyn May-ish to October-ish. I'd just as soon pay to sail out of NY/NJ, what it would cost for air and an overnight added to a Fla cruise fare. We were told the reason more ships don't sail out of NY is that the overall onboard revenue is MUCH less than cruises out of Fla. But NCL and RCI continue to do it and several lines do Canada/New England late summer through fall. If they weren't making $$$$$, you'd think they'd stop those, as well.

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We also sailed on HAL a couple of years when it sailed out of NY. Then we sailed on RCI a couple of years out of NJ. This past winter we sailed on NCL out of NY. We've already booked a Princess for winter 2014 out of Fla. We don't like or want to fly to Fla but RCI and NCL are just not to our liking. We pretty much stick to PRincess/HAL/Celebrity. We did the Veendam a couple of years to Bermuda out of NY and we're going next month on the Summit out of NJ to Bermuda. The Veendam no longer sails to Bermuda out of NY either, and Princess used to sail out of Brooklyn May-ish to October-ish. I'd just as soon pay to sail out of NY/NJ, what it would cost for air and an overnight added to a Fla cruise fare. We were told the reason more ships don't sail out of NY is that the overall onboard revenue is MUCH less than cruises out of Fla. But NCL and RCI continue to do it and several lines do Canada/New England late summer through fall. If they weren't making $$$$$, you'd think they'd stop those, as well.

 

It seems that NCL and RCI appeal to a clearly different demographic --- one that is willing to spend so significantly more on board ship that they can sail profitably from New York whereas the Carnival brands cannot. It is interesting that Celebrity (a RCI brand) has also given up the winter market from New York.

 

So, looking at such a variance in spending habits between demographics, it seems that all mass market lines are not so alike after all. Can't help wondering if level of effective interdiction of smuggled alcohol plays any significant part in the profitability.

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some history may be in order. NCL starting year around sailing from NY. At the time a large number of people thought they were crazy. NCL has now two ships at least all year around. For a long time, the prices on the NCL ships were considerably lower than they are today. After NCL did this for many years other cruise companies have also had year around ships sailing from NY. Princess did it only for one year. HAL did it for a couple. Carnival is now doing it. Maybe it takes longer to take hold year around.

Yes the fuel costs are expensive as is NY in General.

Sailings from NY were down last year for the first year in a long time...

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I am thrilled NCL Breakaway is coming to NYC. Carnival sent Splendor here for the first time this year--so I'm glad there's another option as I've sailed Miracle and Glory multiple times already, as well as NCL Jewel and Gem. And Summit and Explorer from Bayonne.

So I'm glad there are some different ships coming this way. Saves us $ and so much time to have the ports close by.

We have sailed north and south from NY/NJ many times and only 3x had bad weather and/or rough seas. We've mostly had remarkably calm seas.

 

Cruiselines: keep the ships coming to NY and NJ!!!

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I've heard this, but find it hard to believe that any New Yorker would not happily pay HAL's Florida-based fare PLUS what they would have had to pay for winter season round-trip air fare to Florida PLUS a night's motel stay if they could sail from New York. Many of HAL's Florida-sailing passengers must come from New York anyway -- so why would they spend any more on board sailing from there?

 

Any sailing from New York to the Caribbean will in Gulf Stream waters in less than 24 hours.

 

Finally, NCL and RCI have to cope with the same (possibly cheaper) demographic -- and seem to do OK.

 

I don't think NCL and RCI necessarily cope with the same demographic. NCL and RCI, with all their activities & new shiny ships, tend to skew younger, and sail with more families. These people still probably live and work in the NY/NJ/CT area. HAL, on the other hand, may have a demographic with more retirees - those that are known as "snowbirds." While many of HAL's Florida-sailing passengers "come" from NY, they may live in FL for the winter.

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Several people here are making the assumption that Carnival wants to compete in New York. They really do not - nor do several other lines.

 

Please remember this: It is ALWAYS about the money.

 

New Yorkers are reasonably good onboard spenders - but they spend far more going North from New York, than going South.

The viable Canada/New England season is rather short, so has limited appeal to the cruise line companies.

New York is a very expensive port to call at; Boston is far less expensive.

People wanting to sail out of New York are also willing to get themselves to Boston, saving us big money. As a result, many of our Canada/New England voyages are calling at Boston (this also saves fuel).

Also, Boston pax spend more money onboard than New Yorkers.

 

Sailing South from New York is a challenge.

More often than not, the weather and seas work against us, increasing fuel costs and causing additional wear and damage to the hull and equipment.

The first day or two heading South - and the final day or two heading North - are quite often cold and bumpy. People do not spend much money onboard when they are seasick and/or freezing. Onboard Revenues for cruises from New York to the Caribbean are usually disappointing. It is far more cost effective for us to have you fly yourselves to the Caribbean to take a cruise with us.

 

Then we have another problem. (Remember, it's ALWAYS about the money).

We can put a ship in New York, sailing to the Caribbean. The fuel costs will nearly double, port costs are very high, and onboard spending will drop nearly 50%.

Or we can leave it in Australia, with lower fuel costs, lower port costs, no CBP, and double the onboard spending.

 

Assuming that YOU owned a cruise line - and were not planning to have it listed as a charity organization - where would YOU put your ships?

 

The only cruise lines that offer free passage for children, or place their ships in ports that are not profitable are having trouble competing on an even playing field.

Seems to me that your statement kind of contradicts Carnival Cruise Lines now operating all year round from New York. Apparently if it's all about the money, why would they do that?

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Seems to me that your statement kind of contradicts Carnival Cruise Lines now operating all year round from New York. Apparently if it's all about the money, why would they do that?

 

Carnival sails year round to the Bahamas only -- at absurdly low fares. There is no way any line offering a quality package could compete. They do expand routes to include Caribbean and Canada in warm weather only. I guess for their own reasons they want the market share --- I suspect that they really must work on boosting the on-board spending. Whoever posted that HAL's demographic is already in Florida probably has a point -- once more, I am out of step, as I am about as likely to move to Florida year-round as I am to book a three day Spring break cruise to the Bahamas.

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I sailed the 11 day on the Noordam during its first winter from NY. Was so sad that they pulled it from here. And HAL ships would seemingly be ideal to sail from here with the sliding magradomes over the lido pool....no cold weather problems at all....

 

Hi Bob! We sailed the Noordam out of NYC in '07 and '08....loved every minute of it! We left when it was 18 degrees and by the next morning, it was warm enough to sit by the pool - because of the magradome.

How are you and your mom? Where have your cruises taken you since last May?

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