New Carnival ship downunder?

[avalon007]

Looks like another modern design ship - very similar to all the others! :) Built to maximise balcony cabins - with not a lot of exterior space. It even comes complete with head high glass barriers on the upper forward deck - like the others.

 

Looks like the days of lazing on an aft upper deck and wistfully watching the ship's wake left behind is a thing of the past :( or walking around the ship and feeling close to the sea. )

 

SIGH! - at least there is still Oriana , Aurora and QM2 left -- anybody know of any others ??

Barry

 

Royal Caribbean's Radiance of the Seas Barry, I've mentioned her to you a few times, she is one of the most popular ships in the fleet, loads of glass walls, you always feel like you are at sea on Radiance.

 

Also a lot more to my taste than the Carnival offerings & Royal have a rather good safety track record to boot. :)

[CroNich]

I hope they do more then just upgrade the TVs and wall plugs in the re-vamp, ive avoided cruising on the spirit because of the general feel the ship and atrium gives, however I would love if it got more of a Breeze/Sunshine look in the dry dock

[fishtaco]

Royal Caribbean's Radiance of the Seas Barry, I've mentioned her to you a few times, she is one of the most popular ships in the fleet, loads of glass walls, you always feel like you are at sea on Radiance.

 

Also a lot more to my taste than the Carnival offerings & Royal have a rather good safety track record to boot. :)

 

Never been on Carnival Splendor then I see!

 

Carnival splendor has a sort of Pacific Sun type open deck layout more like a see the sea with the wind in your hair "true cruise ship" with 5 star interior ambience!

 

You really should try it:)

 

Den

[Bella cruiser]

Royal Caribbean's Radiance of the Seas Barry, I've mentioned her to you a few times, she is one of the most popular ships in the fleet, loads of glass walls, you always feel like you are at sea on Radiance.

 

Also a lot more to my taste than the Carnival offerings & Royal have a rather good safety track record to boot. :)

 

I think Barry is talking about the older type cruise ships with much more open deck space and fantastic open tiered decks overlooking the stern, like the beautiful Oriana and Pacific Pearl.

 

Radiance of the Seas, whilst being a lovely ship by all accounts has the usual stacked private balconies at her stern and indoor pools, hardly the same ambience really.

[Royalty X]

I knew those TBA spots at the OPT would be for something like this. I also wonder how much life P&O Australia has left in it. I can't see them rebranding the ships as Carnival ships. My money is on them moving the entire fleet on to another market or selling them off. Carnival US has a few newer ships on order so I can see them moving another (older) ship here eventually (most likely one of their Fantasy-class ships). I don't see P&O sailing from Sydney for much longer either (hence the new itineraries in the other cap cities). Test the waters in the other cap cities and then switch out the ships for Carnival ships.

[Hot Chilli]

I dont like Aussification though as all that really means is "What can we rip them for" when all they need to do in reality is change the slots in the casino lol

 

Agree, except you forgot about the coffee. That also needs 'Aussification' :D

[Tigerman00]

Hi Ken noticed you are on the three day Solstice same as us, have you sailed on it before/ we did twelve nights really lovley ship you will enjoy it

 

Hi there, we booked the 3 dayer at a good price, I am looking forward to trying this ship. First time on her for us.

 

K

[sheridan318]

Ken you will love this ship, dont forget to get your agent to transfer your crown and anchor points, we are diamond with royal which made us elite with celeb

Jacquie

[need_a_holiday]

I think P&O will stay because of the brand recognition and because of the problems with Sydney terminals. They need some ships that fit under the bridge.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

I think P&O will stay because of the brand recognition and because of the problems with Sydney terminals. They need some ships that fit under the bridge.

 

 

I used to think that , but brand recognition will race out the door as people realise that the Carnival ships are more modern and offer so much more. If P&O Australia want to remain a brand they will have to compete with a new fleet of ships .

 

Its not as if P&O Austalia was ever Australian owned anyway, it was just a branch office , dancing to the commands from London.

 

 

[VK3DQ]

I used to think that , but brand recognition will race out the door as people realise that the Carnival ships are more modern and offer so much more. If P&O Australia want to remain a brand they will have to compete with a new fleet of ships .

 

Its not as if P&O Austalia was ever Australian owned anyway, it was just a branch office , dancing to the commands from London.

 

 

 

The baby boomers amongst us may remember the P&O ships from Australia's migration past IE ten pound poms .. and others there is a history there, which may mean something, however when migration moved to aircraft most of the better newer ships moved to greener pastures and the old girls came to Australia to cruise.

 

So if Carnival Kill off P&O (OZ) history will repeat itself and they will send their old ladies down under .

 

Would Australians prefer to cruise in ships that are under say ten years old .. I think they would .. but the average life of a passenger ship would be say 25--30 years, so as made clear by a former Australian Prime Minister we are at the AR%se end of the world ....so we will continue to get the Old Ladies ...

 

Best Regards

 

John

[Sutho]

The writing was on the wall for a long time regarding P&O Australia and it is sad to say that it will die a slow and painfull death. There are too many missed opportunities and failure to recognise and invest in the Australian market. Some say we dont have the capacity for a new-build for P&O Australia. I say BS to that. Look at the major competition we have had here lately. Celebrity, Princess, HAL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Cunard, P&O UK all cashing in on our love for cruising. Back in 2003/04/05/06 Princess sent their then brand new Star Princess, Sapphire Princess and Diamond Princess here for cruise seasons in our summer.

 

If P&O Australia was managed right they could have had new-builds, the management team could have focused on both Australian and international markets, the modern technological age gived the ability to charge in native currency for all passengers. All P&O Australia had to do was mirror that of P&O UK, Princess etc the majority of passengers would have been Australian, but the old hand-me-down ships were here for a reason the British and Americanc considered them too old to cruise on.

 

In a way it is not right that Carnival thinks they can "Aussify" their ships. Why not just transfer Carnival Spirit to Australia outright if they are going to that much trouble. Why is P&O Australia such a "tainted name" that the brand is not worth getting newer ships or new builds. Carnival and Princess have retained the ships they are basing here. For what purpose is that.

 

The proof is here that there is the market for cruising. If investements were made in P&O Australia they could have done really well.

[Tigerman00]

Ken you will love this ship, dont forget to get your agent to transfer your crown and anchor points, we are diamond with royal which made us elite with celeb

Jacquie

 

 

Yes I will do that , thanks

[icat2000]

The writing was on the wall for a long time regarding P&O Australia and it is sad to say that it will die a slow and painfull death. There are too many missed opportunities and failure to recognise and invest in the Australian market. Some say we dont have the capacity for a new-build for P&O Australia. I say BS to that. Look at the major competition we have had here lately. Celebrity, Princess, HAL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Cunard, P&O UK all cashing in on our love for cruising. Back in 2003/04/05/06 Princess sent their then brand new Star Princess, Sapphire Princess and Diamond Princess here for cruise seasons in our summer.

 

If P&O Australia was managed right they could have had new-builds, the management team could have focused on both Australian and international markets, the modern technological age gived the ability to charge in native currency for all passengers. All P&O Australia had to do was mirror that of P&O UK, Princess etc the majority of passengers would have been Australian, but the old hand-me-down ships were here for a reason the British and Americanc considered them too old to cruise on.

 

In a way it is not right that Carnival thinks they can "Aussify" their ships. Why not just transfer Carnival Spirit to Australia outright if they are going to that much trouble. Why is P&O Australia such a "tainted name" that the brand is not worth getting newer ships or new builds. Carnival and Princess have retained the ships they are basing here. For what purpose is that.

 

The proof is here that there is the market for cruising. If investements were made in P&O Australia they could have done really well.

 

I disagree. Po aust will still have a market if it adjusts its pricing and does some different intineries to what the others are offering. For example those png cruises sold really well at quite high prices.

[Sutho]

I disagree. Po aust will still have a market if it adjusts its pricing and does some different intineries to what the others are offering. For example those png cruises sold really well at quite high prices.

 

That is my whole point. What you said is exactly what I am getting at. P&O Australia can come up with sell out cruise itineraries.

 

Why then isnt the parent company Carnival corporation getting behind it and supporting it. The line deserves new-builds and the latest state of the art ship technology. It can cater to Australians and international.

 

With the growth of cruising building in Australia the choice to go P&O Australia is dropping fast as more competition moves in.

[bazzaw]

Hmm -- now let me think about this.

 

Will I put 2-3-400 million Dollars into building a new cruiseship to service 20 million people in Australia - when I know that there is a glut of cruiseships elsewhere in the World who "visit" Australia only during the prime cruising season and then depart for better pickings elsewhere during our quieter cruising season??

 

Hmm -- no, I don't think so!!

 

Barry

[NSWP]

We will always get the older ships here, QM2 will be part of the Carnival Australia fleet in 20 years. We get the ships when the rest of the world, particularly the Yanks don't want to cruise on them.

Can you hear me Barry (Bazzaw) ? LOL. T shirts, shorts and thongs for formals on QM2 then, tuxedos optional.

[jessica3152]

Why then isnt the parent company Carnival corporation getting behind it and supporting it. The line deserves new-builds and the latest state of the art ship technology. It can cater to Australians and international.

 

It's a branding decision. Carnival Corp is a global company with global brands each targetting a particular market segment. P&O Australia does not fit in with that global strategy. In fact, it is confusing given P&O Australia is very different from P&O UK.

 

The global mass market brand of Carnival Corporation is Carnival Cruises. If we spoke a unique language the answer may be different but they have made the very sensible decision to leverage their global brand into Australia. Likewise RCI isn't interested in creating a unique Australian brand. It just doesn't make sense.

[jessica3152]

 

If P&O Australia was managed right they could have had new-builds, the management team could have focused on both Australian and international markets, the modern technological age gived the ability to charge in native currency for all passengers. All P&O Australia had to do was mirror that of P&O UK, Princess etc the majority of passengers would have been Australian, but the old hand-me-down ships were here for a reason the British and Americanc considered them too old to cruise on.

 

In a way it is not right that Carnival thinks they can "Aussify" their ships. Why not just transfer Carnival Spirit to Australia outright if they are going to that much trouble. Why is P&O Australia such a "tainted name" that the brand is not worth getting newer ships or new builds. Carnival and Princess have retained the ships they are basing here. For what purpose is that.

 

The proof is here that there is the market for cruising. If investements were made in P&O Australia they could have done really well.

 

I think it is wrong to criticise P&O Australia/Carnival Australia's management.

 

13 years ago, Australia was a backwater with the only permanent presence being a very old ship built in the 1950's to transport immigrants from Europe to Australia. P&O took the initiative and introduced Pacific Sky and as they say, the rest is history. Since then Carnival Corporation has developed the market and now has 6 ships permanently based in Australian waters as well as additional capacity from its Cunard, Princess and HAL (and now Carnival) subsidiaries over the peak season each year.

 

Sure, a newbuild would be nice but realistically there is no competitive and economic advantage in introducing a newbuild compared with a modern ship like Spirit. Newbuilds continue to grow in size as the cruise market in the Caribbean and Mediterranean grow. This growth means there is plenty of capacity in modern ships that are attractive to the Australian market but too small for their original markets.

 

There is no market for a 100K tonne ship year round in Australia and there won't be until port facilities are developed in the South Pacific and North Qld. Given the infrastructure priorities of these places, it will be many years before such ports are developed.

[Cruise ship fan]

I think it is wrong to criticise P&O Australia/Carnival Australia's management.

 

13 years ago, Australia was a backwater with the only permanent presence being a very old ship built in the 1950's to transport immigrants from Europe to Australia. P&O took the initiative and introduced Pacific Sky and as they say, the rest is history. Since then Carnival Corporation has developed the market and now has 6 ships permanently based in Australian waters as well as additional capacity from its Cunard, Princess and HAL (and now Carnival) subsidiaries over the peak season each year.

 

Sure, a newbuild would be nice but realistically there is no competitive and economic advantage in introducing a newbuild compared with a modern ship like Spirit. Newbuilds continue to grow in size as the cruise market in the Caribbean and Mediterranean grow. This growth means there is plenty of capacity in modern ships that are attractive to the Australian market but too small for their original markets.

 

There is no market for a 100K tonne ship year round in Australia and there won't be until port facilities are developed in the South Pacific and North Qld. Given the infrastructure priorities of these places, it will be many years before such ports are developed.

 

Seriously why do you keep saying that the Spirit and Legend are modern ships. They are merely the same as the P&O ships only with a modern face lift. Both ships are over 10 years old. The only difference are there are more people in crammed into them and smaller public spaces although they have more of them it ends up being about the same. The only feature on the spirit and most likely the Legend is the water park. Also add their kids facilities are awful compared to other brands, except for NCL which is by far the worst. These ships are not modern, they are still in the older style that P&O is, only with a very american atmosphere (I hated the look of the spirit inside, but the Paradise and Glory were pretty nice, as they didn't go crazy with it). I wish Carnival would be a bit more serious about it and actually make a dent, as they are loosing compared to other options in Princess and RCCL.

[The_Big_M]

Seriously why do you keep saying that the Spirit and Legend are modern ships. They are merely the same as the P&O ships only with a modern face lift. Both ships are over 10 years old. .

 

That means they're far from the same, since the P&O ships are over 20 years old!

 

Yes, I do consider Spirit and Legend as modern ships. 10 years isn't that long ago.

 

I wish Carnival would be a bit more serious about it and actually make a dent, as they are loosing compared to other options in Princess and RCCL.

 

You're not giving your argument any credibility there.

 

Spirit and Legend are _newer_ than Dawn, Sun and Sea Princess, and Rhapsody and Voyager! And equal to Radiance, which are the ships of the lines you advocate that operate here.

[jessica3152]

Seriously why do you keep saying that the Spirit and Legend are modern ships. They are merely the same as the P&O ships only with a modern face lift. Both ships are over 10 years old.

 

Just so we get this straight, Carnival Spirit is not the same vintage of the current P&O fleet. The Spirit Class is closely related to the HAL Vista class which has been seen most recently in ships such as the Nieuw Amsterdam and Queen Elizabeth.

 

The ages of the current regular Australian ships (and visitors) is as follows

Pacific Dawn 1991 (22)

Pacific Jewel 1990 (23)

Pacific Pearl 1989 (24)

Sun Princess 1995 (18)

Dawn Princess 1997 (16)

Sea Princess 1998 (15)

Carnival Spirit 2001 (12)

Carnival Legend 2002 (11)

Sapphire Princess 2004 (9)

Diamond Princess 2004 (9)

Rhapsody of the Seas 1997 (16)

Radiance of the Seas 2001 (12)

Voyager of the Seas 1999 (14)

Celebrity Solstice 2008 (5)

QM2 2004 (9)

[Kiwi Kruzer]

There is no market for a 100K tonne ship year round in Australia and there won't be until port facilities are developed in the South Pacific and North Qld. Given the infrastructure priorities of these places, it will be many years before such ports are developed.

 

I fully agree .

 

You have hit the nail right on the head.

 

Just look at whats happening in Singapore .

[Sutho]

There is no market for a 100K tonne ship year round in Australia and there won't be until port facilities are developed in the South Pacific and North Qld. Given the infrastructure priorities of these places, it will be many years before such ports are developed.

 

Who said anything about the size of a new build. Why is it automatically assumed that ships must be built over 100,000tons. I think most people would be happy with a new build between 70,000 and 100,000tons.

 

I actually think there is a market for a new ship here. You dont need a massive population to support it, all you need to know is that you can fill the ship and sell the cruises. The proof is already here with countless ships to name sailing out of Sydney and Brisbane.

 

My point about P&O Australia and Carnival Corp not supporting the line has misunderstood some point I made.

 

1.) Carnival put the Carnival Spirit into dry dock and made major changes. It has new electrical sockets, changed for the Australian market and charges in Australian $$. -- My point is if they went to this much trouble to seperate it from Carnival US, why not just transfer it to P&O Australia and re-name it. The answer is simple P&O Australia was not worth it.

 

2.) Sun, Dawn and Sea Princess are now operating from Australia on a regular basis. Why is Princess retaining these ships?? Is P&O Australia not worth their salt??? P&O UK has already taken the 4th of the Sun class - the original Ocean Princess now sailing as Oceana.

 

Before quoting this please read this.

 

The point I am trying to make is what is wrong with letting P&O Australia have these ships like Sun, Dawn, Sea Princess and Carnival Spirit - all relatively modern, and re-brand the line to cater to more international guests. P&O Australia could in theory have these ships, introduce new entertainers to cater to Australian/International, advertise to foreign markets and get P&O Australia into line with all the other major lines.

 

British have no problems sailing with Australians on P&O World Cruises and Americans have no problems sailing with Australians on the likes of Princess, Celebrity etc.

 

To me sending the Carnival Legend here is a slap in the face to P&O Australia and it is a clear sign that the parent company intends to let P&O Australia die a slow death and not replace its ships.

[The_Big_M]

1.) Carnival put the Carnival Spirit into dry dock and made major changes. It has new electrical sockets, changed for the Australian market and charges in Australian $$. -- My point is if they went to this much trouble to seperate it from Carnival US, why not just transfer it to P&O Australia and re-name it. The answer is simple P&O Australia was not worth it.

 

I don't agree with this. The reason is branding. Carnival operate different brands around the world. You may as well argue why don't they just scrap Princess, P&O, Carnival and others and just operate every new ship under HAL for example. The reason is clear - each brand has a market, and there's enough that they want to keep that differentiation instead of one size fits all.

 

I said the same before Spirit came here. Putting Spirit in with P&O would create different expectations for first time cruisers when they sailed on P&O ships subsequently.

 

There's not a huge difference between them - but then there isn't between say HAL and Princess either.

 

 

2.) Sun, Dawn and Sea Princess are now operating from Australia on a regular basis. Why is Princess retaining these ships?? Is P&O Australia not worth their salt??? P&O UK has already taken the 4th of the Sun class - the original Ocean Princess now sailing as Oceana.

 

As above.

 

The point I am trying to make is what is wrong with letting P&O Australia have these ships like Sun, Dawn, Sea Princess and Carnival Spirit - all relatively modern, and re-brand the line to cater to more international guests. P&O Australia could in theory have these ships, introduce new entertainers to cater to Australian/International, advertise to foreign markets and get P&O Australia into line with all the other major lines.

 

Princess and Carnival are decidedly different markets elsewhere, and that remains true here. Why would they _reduce_ their differentiation, when the growing nature of the cruise market means the exact opposite, that they need to _expand_ their differentiation to appeal to different customers.

 

Even though the above is sufficient, another major problem with your suggestion is you've just reduced Carnival Australia's operating capacity by almost a half! There goes their revenue, and you've just ceded ground to RCL group, given them the upper hand. That's just not going to happen.

 

To me sending the Carnival Legend here is a slap in the face to P&O Australia and it is a clear sign that the parent company intends to let P&O Australia die a slow death and not replace its ships.

 

Not at all. They just have excess capacity in the US and Europe, and good Summer sales here.

 

Sending a sister ship is no different to how Sea Princess expanded the Princess fleet here temporarily as a place to make some money. P&O didn't disappear because of it. People who sail P&O are not always the market for Princess. P&O and Carnival also have differences that appeal to different people as well.