Rant about HA port times!

[caladezi]

I go on cruises to enjoy the ship and not the ports. Anyone who goes on a cruise and thinks that their port time is going to give them a great experience of the country they visit is just fooling themselves. A cruise ship is intended to give you nothing more than a quick snapshot of your port. If you like what you see then you really need to do a land trip to that place and spend some time. That is the only way that you can experience the culture of a country rather than in a tour bus or a taxi with a bunch of other people looking for lunch or a place to buy tee-shirts.

[Hlitner]

Something is being lost here. For those that want less time in ports you simply can stay on the ship when she is docked (or anchored). In fact, we often do this in ports when we have little interest in going ashore. But the issue we mentioned with Victoria was simply ridiculous since a small increase in speed would have made a huge difference. Even a 1/2 knot increase would have given us an arrival time of 1-2pm which is much better then arriving at dinner time. As to the comment about this port having to do with the PVSA....in our case it was absolutely not true. The passengers who embarked in San Diego (they got a 3-4 day cruise) had to disembark in either Victoria or Vancouver and were not permitted to later disembark in Seattle (this was because of the PVSA). The PVSA had nothing to do with going to Victoria. If HA had skipped that port the newly embarked passengers (the ones who got on in San Diego) could have simply disembarked in Vancouver (this is what most of them did anyway). Those of us who had been aboard for the prior 30 days (about 600 passengers) could disembark in Victoria, Vancouver or Seattle. Actually, what HA did was use that short 3-4 day segment as a "fam" cruise for many TAs. In discussions we had with several of those TAs...they seemed puzzled why a ship would bother to dock in Victoria at 5pm (with a scheduled departure of 9pm ......which the Captain changed to 11pm).

 

Some cruise lines have previously learned (the hard way) about cutting back to a point of being a "budget line." Most of those cruise lines have either gone bankrupt or were gobbled-up by other companies. Cut backs in port times, cuisine (quanity, selection and quality), entertainment, and crew may not be a smart decision. Only time will tell.

 

Hank

[wander]

I do believe that some previous Canadian posters on this thread pointed out that the short stay in Victoria was not necessarily a HAL decision but in based on the feelings of many in Victoria that do not welcome the cruise ships. However, such a stop is required due to US Law so that folks could get on in San Diego and disembark in Alaska. Why do people only remember what supports their "view"?

[chloes nana]

Well, does Venezuela rings a bell??

 

well does PMP stand for Particulary Mean Person?? :D

[DeepWaterMariner]

Well, does Venezuela rings a bell??

 

I suspect that is the reason Isle de Margarite has disappeared from itineraries, not just of HAL but all the cruise lines. Our last port call in Venezuela was at least 8 years ago and relations between Venezuela and the US have gone from bad to worse during that time.

[RuthC]

Something is being lost here. For those that want less time in ports you simply can stay on the ship when she is docked (or anchored).

A day spent looking at containers stacked six high, and smelling garbage being off-loaded is hardly the same as time spent at sea.

With so few sea days on most itineraries, it's nice to have some sea time during the day, when it's still light out.

[Boatdrill]

... HA saves money by slowing down the ship (a senior officer explained to us that this was the only reason we arrived so late in the day).

 

Yes, they save money and earn it (onboard revenue) at the same time. :eek:

[cruisemom42]

I do believe that some previous Canadian posters on this thread pointed out that the short stay in Victoria was not necessarily a HAL decision but in based on the feelings of many in Victoria that do not welcome the cruise ships. However, such a stop is required due to US Law so that folks could get on in San Diego and disembark in Alaska. Why do people only remember what supports their "view"?

 

Some cruise ships do have much longer stays in Victoria though. Oceania Regatta, for example, will be there from 8am to midnight on June 17. And a Royal Caribbean ship will be there from 9am to 6pm, still a good amount of time, on July 11.

 

So....do the folks in Victoria just dislike certain cruise lines? ;)

[swedish weave]

Something is being lost here. For those that want less time in ports you simply can stay on the ship when she is docked (or anchored). In fact, we often do this in ports when we have little interest in going ashore. But the issue we mentioned with Victoria was simply ridiculous since a small increase in speed would have made a huge difference. Even a 1/2 knot increase would have given us an arrival time of 1-2pm which is much better then arriving at dinner time. As to the comment about this port having to do with the PVSA....in our case it was absolutely not true. The passengers who embarked in San Diego (they got a 3-4 day cruise) had to disembark in either Victoria or Vancouver and were not permitted to later disembark in Seattle (this was because of the PVSA). The PVSA had nothing to do with going to Victoria. If HA had skipped that port the newly embarked passengers (the ones who got on in San Diego) could have simply disembarked in Vancouver (this is what most of them did anyway). Those of us who had been aboard for the prior 30 days (about 600 passengers) could disembark in Victoria, Vancouver or Seattle. Actually, what HA did was use that short 3-4 day segment as a "fam" cruise for many TAs. In discussions we had with several of those TAs...they seemed puzzled why a ship would bother to dock in Victoria at 5pm (with a scheduled departure of 9pm ......which the Captain changed to 11pm).

 

Some cruise lines have previously learned (the hard way) about cutting back to a point of being a "budget line." Most of those cruise lines have either gone bankrupt or were gobbled-up by other companies. Cut backs in port times, cuisine (quanity, selection and quality), entertainment, and crew may not be a smart decision. Only time will tell.

 

Hank

 

I will have to dispute your comment about lines cutting back to become "budget lines".

 

The opposite is true. The budget lines are the ones that survived and gobbled up the lines that tried to maintain prestige and class. Check some of the history of the lines under the Carnival umbrella.

[wander]

Cruisemom42,

I guess you would have to ask that of folks from Canada. I was only referencing a comment from another. Also, I guess one would have to check on all HAL cruises. Maybe all are short stays or maybe one date could be found to compare with Regetta and RCL. I really do not know or care, that was not my point. I do know that over the years I have had a number of stops in Victoria on both HAL and Princess, some long others short.

[SeaBands]

theyare sailing at a slower speed so they have to cut short the port times. I would rather pay the surcharge and leave at a later time.

[iflyrc5]

For all those that want longer port times (us included) have you put this on your end to cruise evaluation and/or mailed HAL directly with your concerns? Posting on here will not do as much good as stating your opinion directly to HAL.

[Jassy]

I haven't done an Alaska cruise so have in idea how early in the day HAL could get their ship on this itinerary to Victoria if they chose to make it a real port stop. Anyone know?

 

We sailed on the Amsterdam from San Diego to Vancouver, with stop in Victoria, in May of last year. We left San Diego at 5:00 pm, sailed up the Pacific coast for three nights and arrived in Victoria at 1:00 pm. So, yes, HAL can get to Victoria more quickly than they did on the OP's cruise. I can't remember if a fuel surcharge was in effect on our cruise. In any event, for whatever their reason(s), HAL is sailing more slowly up the coast these days.

[serendipity1499]

OP I have a question for you...Have you kept records of the fare you have paid for cruises 5 or 10 years ago? If so has the fare increased & kept up with inflation? We've taken over 20 cruises & with the exception of Oceania & the Prinsendam our fares have remained the same..

For instance, having kept our records since 1998 for all of our cruises.. Our HAL cabin (always an outside) in 1998 cost us $267 per day, In March 2003 we paid $272.50 per day, in Nov 2009 we paid $237 per day & in Nov 2012 we paid $231.80 per day...Our fares have not increased & kept up with inflation..As Bruce Muzz says, years ago when we had to pay a fuel service charge there was a lot of protesting about it..It's no wonder HAL has had to cut back since most Psgrs are not willing to pay more for their vacation cruises..

 

 

quote=wander;38517703]I do believe that some previous Canadian posters on this thread pointed out that the short stay in Victoria was not necessarily a HAL decision but in based on the feelings of many in Victoria that do not welcome the cruise ships. However, such a stop is required due to US Law so that folks could get on in San Diego and disembark in Alaska. Why do people only remember what supports their "view"?

 

I saw this too, but many do not read others posts & tend to ignore posts which don't support their position..

 

Some cruise ships do have much longer stays in Victoria though. Oceania Regatta, for example, will be there from 8am to midnight on June 17. And a Royal Caribbean ship will be there from 9am to 6pm, still a good amount of time, on July 11.

 

So....do the folks in Victoria just dislike certain cruise lines? ;)

 

Cruisemom...The Oceania Regatta cabins cost a great deal more than HAL's cabins with the exception of the Prinsendam...You can't compare apples to oranges..We've sailed both the Regatta twice & the Prinsendam twice & our daily rate was double what we pay on most HAL ships with the exception of the Prinsendam..

I have not priced out a cabin on Royal Carib.

Betty

[Typhoon1]

If you don't like shortened port times, there are plenty of other cruise lines.

[quack2]

Victoria: Where old people go to visit their parents.

 

When my itinerary includes Victoria, I assume that there will be little time for more than just going downtown and hitting the Irish Pub.

[cruisemom42]

Cruisemom...The Oceania Regatta cabins cost a great deal more than HAL's cabins with the exception of the Prinsendam...You can't compare apples to oranges..We've sailed both the Regatta twice & the Prinsendam twice & our daily rate was double what we pay on most HAL ships with the exception of the Prinsendam..

I have not priced out a cabin on Royal Carib.

Betty

 

But this isn't a thread about cost, it's about the length of a stop in port, which shouldn't have much to do with the cost of a cabin.

 

Yes, Oceania is more expensive, but Royal Caribbean is often less expensive.

 

If we are only ever allowed to compare like with like, then we will end up only comparing HAL port stops with other HAL ships....

 

Also .... and this is not necessarily directed at you .... I have lost count of the number of things we have been asked "excuse" in order to have HAL (and other mass market lines) NOT increase their prices.

 

We're told we cannot expect the food in the MDR to be what it once was.

 

We're told we cannot expect the condition of the ship to be the same that it once was.

 

We're told we cannot expect port stops to be as long as they previously were.

 

We're asked to give up more inside and outside space on ships so that the cruiselines can add more revenue producing areas (e.g., adding cabins to areas where there were no cabins before, adding for-pay restaurants, adding special "sanctuary" type areas on board ships.

 

I don't cruise HAL often enough to keep up with everything, but it seems on these boards I've heard people discuss many more things that have gone by the wayside, from trays in the Lido to having fewer musicians, fresh flowers, and staff.

 

Is there a point where someone says they've taken enough things away, it's time to raise prices? Personally I wouldn't think it a bad thing if I had to at least pay the "same" amount (in inflation adjusted dollars) as I did years ago....IF I got the same -- or nearly the same -- experience.

[mamaofami]

When we cruise in the Caribbean, we love sea days but there are many ports where all we want to do is go to a beach. By the time we get off the ship, get a taxi and get to the beach, if we incur a 3PM departure time, it really makes us feel nervous to be sure we are back in time.

 

Our favorite beach is Orient on St. Martin, and luckily our past cruise had a nice long day there.

 

It would be great if we could have some itineraries with more port days, fewer islands, but longer stays.

[wander]

cruisemom42,

How can you say that time in port should not have much to do with cabin cost?????? I would hope that you did not think this out before writing that response. Almost everything (maybe everything?) in a business has to do with income versus outgo which directly relates to cost versus expense. Now, what one considers a reasonable return on investment certainly varies between people and companies, but it is related to cost versus expense. A company cannot maintain a profitable business over time if they do not adjust either their own costs/expenses OR what they charge their customers.

 

I relate to what Serendipity 1499 says. While I do not have exactly what we paid for each cruise, I do know what we paid per day for an inside versus inside and outside versus outside cabin for our cruises since 1976 on Princess and HAL. They have gone up approximately 10% in that time. Inflation for average household expenses was far more than that for the same time period.

[cruisemom42]

cruisemom42,

How can you say that time in port should not have much to do with cabin cost?????? I would hope that you did not think this out before writing that response. Almost everything (maybe everything?) in a business has to do with income versus outgo which directly relates to cost versus expense.

 

But one also has to keep in mind that ships like Oceania's carry fewer passengers than many mass-market lines (yes, I know HAL has a range of ship sizes). And we have all heard many times on these boards that fixed costs spread among fewer passengers per ship means less profit, hence the fact that most smaller sized vessels charge a higher per-cabin rate. But presumably most of those higher costs on Oceania are going to the fixed costs (for the benefit of more space per pax) and also to the attested higher quality of food served.

 

Of course you are right that cost has a bearing on most things. I am skeptical that anyone could link shorter port times to cabin cost directly. As mentioned above, Royal Caribbean (a line that prices competitively in comparison with HAL) has longer port times for the port in question. However, if someone has direct proof that cabin pricing is related to length of port stay, I'm willing to listen. it hasn't necessarily been my experience, however.

[Christine Frances]

I do believe that some previous Canadian posters on this thread pointed out that the short stay in Victoria was not necessarily a HAL decision but in based on the feelings of many in Victoria that do not welcome the cruise ships. However, such a stop is required due to US Law so that folks could get on in San Diego and disembark in Alaska. Why do people only remember what supports their "view"?

 

It are definitely not "many" in Victoria that do not welcome cruise ships! I saw a little article in the paper lol. Some of the locals that live in the area of the terminal get annoyed with the buses, traffic etc but the other 99% of the population look forward to spring when the ships start to arrive. The first ship to arrive always makes the front page of the newspaper. This year I am pretty sure it was a HAL ship:D The tourist sites, restaurants, pubs, whale watching operator, horse and buggy tours, taxis, you name it all welcome the ships and the people they bring. Please come, we love having guests in our city!

[serendipity1499]

But this isn't a thread about cost, it's about the length of a stop in port, which shouldn't have much to do with the cost of a cabin.

 

Of course it has to do with the cost of your cabin..

 

Yes, Oceania is more expensive, but Royal Caribbean is often less expensive.

 

Are you saying that Royal Caribbean is giving the same service, amenities, food which they gave 10 years ago without raising prices?

 

If we are only ever allowed to compare like with like, then we will end up only comparing HAL port stops with other HAL ships....

 

Also .... and this is not necessarily directed at you .... I have lost count of the number of things we have been asked "excuse" in order to have HAL (and other mass market lines) NOT increase their prices.

 

We're told we cannot expect the food in the MDR to be what it once was.

 

Of course you can't expect it to remain the same when we are not willing to pay more for our cabins..

 

We're told we cannot expect the condition of the ship to be the same that it once was.

 

We're told we cannot expect port stops to be as long as they previously were.

 

That is true..How can we expect to pay exactly the same & have the same quality of food, service & amenities year after year?

 

We're asked to give up more inside and outside space on ships so that the cruiselines can add more revenue producing areas (e.g., adding cabins to areas where there were no cabins before, adding for-pay restaurants, adding special "sanctuary" type areas on board ships.

 

I don't cruise HAL often enough to keep up with everything, but it seems on these boards I've heard people discuss many more things that have gone by the wayside, from trays in the Lido to having fewer musicians, fresh flowers, and staff.

 

Is there a point where someone says they've taken enough things away, it's time to raise prices? Personally I wouldn't think it a bad thing if I had to at least pay the "same" amount (in inflation adjusted dollars) as I did years ago....IF I got the same -- or nearly the same -- experience.[/quote]

 

Now you hit the nail on the head..You & I might be willing to pay more, but their are many more psgrs who are not willing to pay more..Prices of cabins have remained the same..The OP stated that HAL is trying to save $$$ by going slower & using less fuel..Consequently it takes longer to get into Victoria which means less time in port..He is right..

My point was of course they are trying to save $$$ anywhere they can only because they do not want to raise prices of cabins or even charge a fuel surcharge as they did years ago..People screamed bloody murder when we were charged a fuel surcharge!

Things can not be the same when Psgrs don't want to pay more for their vacations.. I'm retired from the International Airline travel field & we had Psgrs who consistently complained when & if prices went up..That's why so many airlines went out of business including my company.. Psgrs were not willing to pay fuel surcharges either..That's why I said you can't compare an Oceania cabin price with a HAL cabin price.. Psgrs on Oceania pay more, therefore they get more for their money..

As Bruce Muzz (a cruise ship officer who has been a HOTMAN with many different companies) stated in Post 22 the cost of fuel has risen 200%-300% in Alaska & Calif. in just a few years but the cost of cabins have basically remained the same..He also says that all mass market lines are doing the same thing but in different ports..It's still the old saying "You get what you pay for"

Cheers...Betty

 

P.S. BTW The fresh flowers are still there for now...LOL

[wander]

Cruisemom42,

 

I am not sure what you mean by "directly" but cabin prices are determined by a number of things, and I do not pretend to know all of them. However, overall expenses of running the ship and port expenses are certainly two big ones. Since port costs are in part calculated by the length of time the ship is at the dock, yes it definitely factors into the cost of running a cruise and thus the cost of cabins. Just the way I had to calculate docking fees into the cost of a trip on my small boat. The longer the boat slip was reserved, the higher the price and thus the longer I stayed there the higher the price. These two factors are used, among others such as the amount of longshoremen needed, etc. in the overall port charges and therefore in the cost of a cruise.

 

Can someone determine how much more it would cost per passenger (or cabin) to stay at a pier 4 hours longer, you bet you can if you have the appropriate cost information.

[kazu]

hmm ...interesting discussion....made me revisit our itinerary on the Prinsendam for our next cruise. Our port times are excellent - no rush at all - as well, they were very good on our cruise we just got back from.

 

Now, as Betty pointed out the Prinsendam is pricier - so perhaps it is cost related?

 

In Europe, the port times for us are important. In the Caribbean it's not a concern as we do the Caribbean to escape the winter weather and enjoy the warmth whether we are on an island or whether we are on the ship;)

[Randyk47]

One of the things we really enjoyed about our Med cruise last year were the extended stays in the ports. Typically we didn't leave port until 7 PM. We did have one 4 PM and one 5 PM departure but in both cases we'd overnighted in the port so we'd really had the better part of two full days. For us that was great because, for instance, it allowed us in Livorno to take a train into Florence the first day without worrying about what time we got back to the ship and the next day to take a guided tour to Pisa and the Leaning Tower. There was so much to see and do in every port the thought of leaving early would have been a bummer to say the least. Contrast that to the year before on the Maasdam in the Caribbean where we left a number of ports at 3 or 4 PM for apparently no other reason than to save fuel and capture more revenue from on board spending. That was the real downside to what was otherwise an excellent cruise. Of course we're destination cruisers so anytime you cut or reduce time in most ports is going to be a disappointment to us.