Why no life guards??

[Karysa]

JMO- As a career teacher, mother, and trained lifeguard, I agree with those who say we need more security by the pools, including lifeguards. Lifeguards can be identified as security guards or youth security guards.

 

One drowning of a young child, on a cruise ship or anywhere else, is unacceptable. Two drownings of young children and one near-drowning- on three different cruise lines- is reason, IMO, to step up security around the cruise pools. Pool rules need to be enforced.

 

Parents & other caretakers need to be supervising 24/7- however, if they are not doing this, the cruise lines need to make sure they do -as the drownings of young children in cruise ship pools is just unacceptable.

 

Teachers do not look at children as statistics. Children should not become

accident statistics on cruise ships. This is quite different from adults falling overboard. Adults are responsible for their behavior, children are learning

behavior. It is a long process for some children-as we all know. Parents are responsible for the behavior of their children under 18. (This is stated in most cruise documents.)

 

Children drowning in cruise pools and adults falling overboard are not in the same category for comparison. Neither should happen- but young children deserve to be protected if their parents are not protecting them.

 

Whatever it takes to prevent another child from drowning on a cruise ship should be done.

 

Beautifully written.

[Karysa]

when I was working as a lifeguard we only ever worked 10 minutes in 1 location. i certainly wouldn't want to be sat in that chair or patrolling the poolside in rough seas...

 

The pools are not huge. A lifeguard could change between a chair and patrolling on foot as they seemed fit. Waiters carry 12 plates of dinner in rough seas and I have seen acrobats and jugglers perform when the ship was rocking. Why the extra concern for the lifeguard in the same conditions?

[Swampbabe]

Lifeguards are trained and certified and then they are hired. There can be a number counter/security guard so the lifeguard Can focus on the pool.

 

I am well aware of how lifeguards are trained, hired, and certified. :rolleyes: My daughter is a certified lifeguard and pool operator and I am well aware of the challenges of the job. Please read post #406 as this poster is trying to explain to you what the job of "lifeguard" entails. A pool attendant is good idea for enforcing rules but that person is not a lifeguard.

[Swampbabe]

The pools are not huge. A lifeguard could change between a chair and patrolling on foot as they seemed fit. Waiters carry 12 plates of dinner in rough seas and I have seen acrobats and jugglers perform when the ship was rocking. Why the extra concern for the lifeguard in the same conditions?

 

Again, you just don't get it or don't want to and just want to argue. You can't have just one lifeguard, there is a reason for rotating and having "fresh" eyes.

 

A pool attendant enforcing the rules is a good idea but even then some parents would argue about the need for the rules. Case in point, my daughter has a friend that works at Magic Kingdom and a little boy was climbing on some railing and when she asked him to get down the father told him to stay where he was. When the young lady tried to explain that is was for the boy's safety the father responded "you little c-t, don't tell me what to do." IN FRONT OF HIS CHILD I don't envy anyone trying to enforce rules in a public setting.

[Beaver1975]

We have also lost the "village" mentality of years gone by. Kind of sad to me actually.

 

Sorry, but the "village" mentality was a code word to extend more government controls and to aleviate parental responsibilities. Send your children to school and we the government will take care of them and teach them everything they need to know. Wasn't it Hillary who was the one that propogated the "village" mentality?

[Karysa]

Again, you just don't get it or don't want to and just want to argue. You can't have just one lifeguard, there is a reason for rotating and having "fresh" eyes.

 

A pool attendant enforcing the rules is a good idea but even then some parents would argue about the need for the rules. Case in point, my daughter has a friend that works at Magic Kingdom and a little boy was climbing on some railing and when she asked him to get down the father told him to stay where he was. When the young lady tried to explain that is was for the boy's safety the father responded "you little c-t, don't tell me what to do." IN FRONT OF HIS CHILD I don't envy anyone trying to enforce rules in a public setting.

 

Of course lifeguards need breaks. Of cours security that actually enforce the rules are needed. You find jerks like the guy in your story everywhere. That is where adults step up and tell this guy to stop berating the lifeguard and go and get security to deal with him. That type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. If this guy said that to a lifeguard in public what is he saying to his children in public? Children deserve to be protected even if it's from their own parents.

[Karysa]

Sorry, but the "village" mentality was a code word to extend more government controls and to aleviate parental responsibilities. Send your children to school and we the government will take care of them and teach them everything they need to know. Wasn't it Hillary who was the one that propogated the "village" mentality?

 

For me the "village" means to protect children in your neighborhood. Be that safe haven. Set a good example and be there for the members of your community. I am unfamiliar with the political meaning. We all need our neighbours from time to time.:)

[biker@sea]

Maybe it's time for security to hand-cuff unattended / unruly kid's to the uncaring parent / guardian . ;)

[Swampbabe]

Of course lifeguards need breaks. Of cours security that actually enforce the rules are needed. You find jerks like the guy in your story everywhere. That is where adults step up and tell this guy to stop berating the lifeguard and go and get security to deal with him. That type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. If this guy said that to a lifeguard in public what is he saying to his children in public? Children deserve to be protected even if it's from their own parents.

 

I should have my head examined but here goes: Did you read the post that I referred to earlier? If you did, you would have let this bone go already. You would need to have at least three lifeguards at every pool to adequately supervise it. It's interesting to me that you would be okay with a lifeguard getting thrown from a chair to the pool deck because "waiters carry 12 plates"

[NLH Arizona]

Of course lifeguards need breaks. Of cours security that actually enforce the rules are needed. You find jerks like the guy in your story everywhere. That is where adults step up and tell this guy to stop berating the lifeguard and go and get security to deal with him. That type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with. If this guy said that to a lifeguard in public what is he saying to his children in public? Children deserve to be protected even if it's from their own parents.

First you want lifeguards and now you want other passengers to step up and tell an abusive passenger to stop their interaction with a staff member.

 

NCL doesn't need lifeguards, they need a non-tipped person (or a staff member will enforce the rules knowing they will lose tips) at the pool to enforce all rules for all ages. If a passenger gets abusive with the staff member, it is the staff's responsibility to take it to his supervisor, it is not the responsibility of other passengers to get involved....that will only start fights and make matters worse.

 

Since there are two lines (Disney and Princess) that have lifeguards, if someone's vacation depends on a ship with a lifeguard, then I would suggest that they try one of those two lines.

[Karysa]

I should have my head examined but here goes: Did you read the post that I referred to earlier? If you did, you would have let this bone go already. You would need to have at least three lifeguards at every pool to adequately supervise it. It's interesting to me that you would be okay with a lifeguard getting thrown from a chair to the pool deck because "waiters carry 12 plates"

 

If the pool was so rough that the lifeguard felt unsafe I would hope that the pool would be closed. I would expect the pool to be closed during such bad conditions even if there was not a lifeguard.

[Karysa]

First you want lifeguards and now you want other passengers to step up and tell an abusive passenger to stop their interaction with a staff member.

 

NCL doesn't need lifeguards, they need a non-tipped person (or a staff member will enforce the rules knowing they will lose tips) at the pool to enforce all rules for all ages. If a passenger gets abusive with the staff member, it is the staff's responsibility to take it to his supervisor, it is not the responsibility of other passengers to get involved....that will only start fights and make matters worse.

 

Since there are two lines (Disney and Princess) that have lifeguards, if someone's vacation depends on a ship with a lifeguard, then I would suggest that they try one of those two lines.

 

I really just want the pools to be safe for children on cruiseships. All ideas on how to do this should be explored.

 

Standing up to people being bullied was taught to me by my parents. I do what I can in situations where people are being bullied. Otherwise I would be a bystander and to me that's not a whole lot better than being a bully.

[youngestof9]

OMG ENOUGH ALREADY.

 

a little boy died. A family, regardless of what happened or who is to blame, is changed forever. The people who helped are changed forever.

 

These dissenting opinions are not going to change anyone's mind. Personally, it made me more aware of what drowning looks like and if I see something, say something.

 

But this ridiculous back and forth is just trying to prove over and over who thinks they are right. It doesn't change a thing.

 

LET IT GO and say a prayer for all of those whose lives are forever and ever changed.

[NLH Arizona]

I really just want the pools to be safe for children on cruiseships. All ideas on how to do this should be explored.

 

Standing up to people being bullied was taught to me by my parents. I do what I can in situations where people are being bullied. Otherwise I would be a bystander and to me that's not a whole lot better than being a bully.

The pools are safe. If you look at the amount of passengers that cruise each day and the number of pool accidents, you are looking at a minimal amount (much, much less than those at land pools). Do we want to make sure there are no accidents/deaths, yes of course, but having a lifeguard is not going to do it. All it will do is allow those parents that don't supervise their children, to feel that they now have a pool babysitter. NCL needs to enforce the rules, so that parents are all supervising their children in and around the pools.

 

I have no problem standing up for someone being bullied, by getting the proper supervisor to step in, but a passenger should never, never get involved. The ship's personnel is trained in what to do with those that they encounter, so let them handle it. The only time, I feel, that a person should get involved is if it is to save someone from physical harm.

 

Well, then I guess in your estimation, I'm no better than a bully, because I would not personally intervene, I would only go for help from an officer to help with the situation and that is what my parents taught me....run for help, because if you intervene you could escalate the situation into a physical confrontation!

[cruiseapril]

It is debatable whether pools on cruise ships are safe.

 

For more than 10 years, we have noticed problems in cruise ship pools.

The crew have been the ones to intervene to speak with those who are not following the rules. Parents weren't around. We have seen kids jumping over other kids, pushing each other, getting into whirlpools without adults,

and being unruly. The crew have to bear the burden of keeping order- in our experience.

 

Recent child drownings in cruise pools suggest that things are not getting better.

Something needs to be done to prevent this. This is not a matter of who is right and who is wrong in their opinions about lifeguards- it is about preventing loss of life on a cruise ship- loss of very young lives in cruise pools.

 

Most likley the Captains and management (of all of the cruise lines) are discussing this matter and have solid ideas as to how to deal with lack of parental supervision for those children under 18.

[Karysa]

The pools are safe. If you look at the amount of passengers that cruise each day and the number of pool accidents, you are looking at a minimal amount (much, much less than those at land pools). Do we want to make sure there are no accidents/deaths, yes of course, but having a lifeguard is not going to do it. All it will do is allow those parents that don't supervise their children, to feel that they now have a pool babysitter. NCL needs to enforce the rules, so that parents are all supervising their children in and around the pools.

 

I have no problem standing up for someone being bullied, by getting the proper supervisor to step in, but a passenger should never, never get involved. The ship's personnel is trained in what to do with those that they encounter, so let them handle it. The only time, I feel, that a person should get involved is if it is to save someone from physical harm.

 

Well, then I guess in your estimation, I'm no better than a bully, because I would not personally intervene, I would only go for help from an officer to help with the situation and that is what my parents taught me....run for help, because if you intervene you could escalate the situation into a physical confrontation!

 

Getting help is intervening. Getting help is not being a bystander. Getting help may prevent the situation from escalating to the point where there is a physical altercation. Don't ever teach children that getting help is the same as being a bully because it is just the oposite. It is not always safe to physically intervene but we can all help in some way.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Karysa

[sharecruises]

First you want lifeguards and now you want other passengers to step up and tell an abusive passenger to stop their interaction with a staff member.

 

NCL doesn't need lifeguards, they need a non-tipped person (or a staff member will enforce the rules knowing they will lose tips) at the pool to enforce all rules for all ages. If a passenger gets abusive with the staff member, it is the staff's responsibility to take it to his supervisor, it is not the responsibility of other passengers to get involved....that will only start fights and make matters worse.

 

Since there are two lines (Disney and Princess) that have lifeguards, if someone's vacation depends on a ship with a lifeguard, then I would suggest that they try one of those two lines.

 

Very valid points.

 

However, as far as I know only Disney has lifeguards and apparently limited at that (and remember all the cruises with slides do have a slide attendant)

 

Princess has a "youth security stuff" - not part of security and not part of the kid club but seem to be hooked up to them (I guess to find out stuff?)

they enforce the kid rules - curfew, running around, pool stuff, in the adult area. Take kid back to cabin or page parent if needed.

Parents do argue with them I guess BUT not the way they would if it was the friendly bar waiter telling them their kid was too young to be in the pool

 

IMHO it would be well worth a "try" for the cruiselines to do this - without all the liability of lifeguards, and all the "hassle" as you have aptly pointed out. Kid security (for lack of a better word) are there to prevent other dangers - running, climbing on rails, whatever ...and ..yeah make it nicer for adults too haha

[rvsullivan]

Getting help is intervening. Getting help is not being a bystander. Getting help may prevent the situation from escalating to the point where there is a physical altercation. Don't ever teach children that getting help is the same as being a bully because it is just the oposite. It is not always safe to physically intervene but we can all help in some way.

 

Out of 442 posts so far, you've posted 91 of them. I know that not all Canadians know about the political meanings and origins of "It takes a village", perhaps in Canada you need/want the government and business's to take care of you. However, many/most posters so far seem to disagree. Perhaps it's time to let this thread go?

[cruiseapril]

The subject of the well being of young children on a cruise ship is a huge consideration to many cruisers. If others are not as concerned or don't like the posts, they don't have to read and post.

 

Certainly counting someone's posts and talking about Canada is quite personal and borderline unfriendly. Why do that?

 

Why not just stay on the topic of lifeguards, child security, and the safety of kids on board?

[NLH Arizona]

Getting help is intervening. Getting help is not being a bystander. Getting help may prevent the situation from escalating to the point where there is a physical altercation. Don't ever teach children that getting help is the same as being a bully because it is just the oposite. It is not always safe to physically intervene but we can all help in some way.

You were the one that said "That is where adults step up and tell this guy to stop berating the lifeguard..." I never felt nor taught children that someone who doesn't stand up to a bully, but goes to get help is the same as a bully. My parents had it right, as far as I was concerned....get help.

[NLH Arizona]

Very valid points.

 

However, as far as I know only Disney has lifeguards and apparently limited at that (and remember all the cruises with slides do have a slide attendant)

 

Princess has a "youth security stuff" - not part of security and not part of the kid club but seem to be hooked up to them (I guess to find out stuff?)

they enforce the kid rules - curfew, running around, pool stuff, in the adult area. Take kid back to cabin or page parent if needed.

Parents do argue with them I guess BUT not the way they would if it was the friendly bar waiter telling them their kid was too young to be in the pool

 

IMHO it would be well worth a "try" for the cruiselines to do this - without all the liability of lifeguards, and all the "hassle" as you have aptly pointed out. Kid security (for lack of a better word) are there to prevent other dangers - running, climbing on rails, whatever ...and ..yeah make it nicer for adults too haha

It is the parent's responsiblity to make sure their children don't run, climb on the rails, etc., and they should be the one that is held accountable for their children. I don't think NCL needs to hire a babysitter to tell the children not to run or climb on the rails when it is the parents who should be supervising their children. There shouldn't be the kid's police to do this, if anything there should be someone (could be staff they have now who will chastize passengers while not being afraid to lose tips) to make sure everyone abides by the rules, be it a chair hog, non-supervised children in the pool, a drunk bothering others, etc. In other words, NCL has to start calling those passengers out that don't abide by the rules and if the passenger continues to ignore the rules, they need to be escorted off the ship. There are rules already in place to keep people safe, but as long as NCL (and other cruise lines) don't call passengers out on them, nothing will solve the problem.

[Karysa]

You were the one that said "That is where adults step up and tell this guy to stop berating the lifeguard..." I never felt nor taught children that someone who doesn't stand up to a bully, but goes to get help is the same as a bully. My parents had it right, as far as I was concerned....get help.

 

Yes a security staff member is an adult as well. If you do not feel comfortable speaking to an adult that is keeping the lifeguard from guarding then go tell someone who will. Stopping the bully and not being a bystander is the thing to do in a situation such as you described.

[Karysa]

Out of 442 posts so far, you've posted 91 of them. I know that not all Canadians know about the political meanings and origins of "It takes a village", perhaps in Canada you need/want the government and business's to take care of you. However, many/most posters so far seem to disagree. Perhaps it's time to let this thread go?

 

Actually my grandma talked a lot about villages keeping an eye on children and she died in 1981 long before we ever heard of Hillary.

You counted my posts. So strange to me.

 

I think of it as more as chipping in to help improve the lives of our fellow citizens, not the government and business's taking care of us.

 

It's not about which side has more support that determines if a thread has past it's expiration date. I am very impressed at the ideas that have started to emerge on here since the weekend.

[NLH Arizona]

Actually my grandma talked a lot about villages keeping an eye on children and she died in 1981 long before we ever heard of Hillary.

You counted my posts. So strange to me.

 

I think of it as more as chipping in to help improve the lives of our fellow citizens, not the government and business's taking care of us.

 

It's not about which side has more support that determines if a thread has past it's expiration date. I am very impressed at the ideas that have started to emerge on here since the weekend.

You are obviously passionate about this and please post as many posts as you want. Don't let anyone stop you from voicing your opinion by counting your posts or disagreeing with you.

[Karysa]

Thanks Arizona and April. A thread like this brings out emotions so from time to time its bound to get a little heated. I think that in the very least Cruiseline reps popping in from time to time on this thread will at least get the message that something needs to be done to help ensure that kids are safe at the pools or at the very least not affecting others negatively. That much I think we can all agree on. Let's hope they are listening and come up with great ideas to keep kids safe and everyone content and able to enjoy their well deserved vacation.

 

Parents and guardians being villigent is what most everyone on here wants. Is that likely? No I do not think so. That's the sad truth. Some kids needs more help keeping them safe than their parents are willing to offer. Sadly this does effect others in many ways but that's just the way it is and I don't think that this will ever change.