Compensation for ruined cruise

[sherilyn70]

I agree with you and said much the same last evening. People should be ashamed and really embarrassed that they have chosen to attack this OP. Its rather disgusting that they actually seem to take joy in the the fact that two small children who were essentially lied to by the cruiseline were really sad on their cruise. Dispicable and heartless posts.

 

The children were sad? One wasn't old enough to even comprehend what had been taken from him. He'd never been in a kids Club on a cruise before so there wasn't even a memory to grasp at. The other made a personal choice. There was no reason for them to be sad unless the parents told them they should be. Kids are highly influenced by their parents emotions and reactions.

 

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Edited December 21, 2013 by sherilyn70

[spidybabe]

Canceling the kids club----only allowing one child----( kudos for the parents who raised a child to care enough that his younger sibling was upset--nice child) is like changing policy (and not informing passengers) that nobody over the age of 25 will be allowed into any clubs!! No white hot party. No bliss lounge. No karaoke!!! Or worse....specialty restaurants closed!!! I remember when people freaked and wanted compensation when one main dining room was closed for "kosher fest" I know it's far fetched but the entertainment was taken away from the children...that's their fun time. Imagine if you as adults had limited entertainment, when you were expecting tons of it!! It's just unfair. The cruise knows EVERYBODY's age, and the OP should of been informed.

Safe sailing

 

 

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[Blk_Amish]

The children were sad? One wasn't old enough to even comprehend what had been taken from him. He'd never been in a kids Club on a cruise before so there wasn't even a memory to grasp at. The other made a personal choice. There was no reason for them to be sad unless the parents told them they should be. Kids are highly influenced by their parents emotions and reactions.

 

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The family probably took the time to discuss this with the child before the cruise. Once the plans changed, they did something the cruise din't, told the kids. It would matter to some caring siblings. By the way hooey, I am overjoyed on most vacations and my son couldn't care less. Europe was the worse month of his life, Carnival failed compared to Princess (maybe:D) and Alaska was too cold at 70 degrees. However, can you imagine kids who care about each other enough so the older one stayed with the younger one. I hope this continues, most parents dream for their kids.

 

This is not about that, it's about failure to inform and being deceived and lied to by a rep. That's ok with you but not others.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[sparks1093]

Where the contract ends, decency starts. This is about providing information after a change was made. She got it in writing that the service was going to be available. So unless you appreciate being lied to or deceived,which seems obvious, others don't, especially where kids are involved. If you can accept this for your family and your kids good for you but sad for them.

 

Oh, I care very much about deception but I also like to keep things in perspective. In the over all scheme of things this was a very minor glitch (I do appreciate that the OP sees it differently, but that only goes so far). Should the cruise line have honored the commitment that their rep made? Yes. Should the cruise line offer something? Probably. Will they? Don't know but my guess is probably not. Does this change how I feel about said cruise line? No, because if I let everything that happened to someone else dictate who I did business with there would be no one for me to do business with.

[sherilyn70]

The family probably took the time to discuss this with the child before the cruise. Once the plans changed, they did something the cruise din't, told the kids.

Considering they were well aware am exception was required and that it could go wrong (they did make it clear they do read these forums) why would you do that to your child? I never promise my child any activity I can not 100% guarantee. I may discuss it with him as an option but I make no promise that he will get to do it and discuss alternatives. This eliminates upset children and most tantrums.

 

 

 

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[Blk_Amish]

Considering they were well aware am exception was required and that it could go wrong (they did make it clear they do read these forums) why would you do that to your child? I never promise my child any activity I can not 100% guarantee. I may discuss it with him as an option but I make no promise that he will get to do it and discuss alternatives. This eliminates upset children and most tantrums.

 

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

Is the integrity of some posters to be trusted based on this thread, therefore making the entire board/forum suspect. She read and then went to the source for clarification and option as I would. A kids club is not an activity as such, its the foundation for many multi-generation family vacations (cruises, A/I resorts) setting. It's like booking a cruise then canceling traditional dining without informing anyone . Yes there is food but clearly my daughter would be disappointed for not getting a chance to wear the pretty dress we went shopping for. She would miss out on getting dolled up with her mom and sit in a huge dining room. What's next close the buffet, and remove bacon???

 

This is not about what the parents did but what the rep lied or deceived about. Why would you defend such rubbish and be ok with it especially if your child is involved. Not much I can guarantee 100% with my kids except if they talk to me a certain way my hand WILL end up someplace they don't like. Even then I fail sometimes, not worth the hassle. I know we all parent differently, fair enough, you can guarantee things, most times I can't.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[sherilyn70]

Is the integrity of some posters to be trusted based on this thread, therefore making the entire board/forum suspect. She read and then went to the source for clarification and option as I would. A kids club is not an activity as such, its the foundation for many multi-generation family vacations (cruises, A/I resorts) setting. It's like booking a cruise then canceling traditional dining without informing anyone . Yes there is food but clearly my daughter would be disappointed for not getting a chance to wear the pretty dress we went shopping for. She would miss out on getting dolled up with her mom and sit in a huge dining room. What's next close the buffet and remove bacon???

 

This is not about what the parents did but what the rep lied or deceived about. Why would you defend such rubbish.

 

If you knew 1 year in advance that they were canceling this would you really let her get worked up over it? If you were told they were sure an exception would be made you would just accept that and tell her it was definitely going to happen? Maybe I'm just not naive enough to believe that everything always goes as planned or that companies follow through with exceptions, especially 1 year after the discussion took place.

 

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[Blk_Amish]

If you knew 1 year in advance that they were canceling this would you really let her get worked up over it? If you were told they were sure an exception would be made you would just accept that and tell her it was definitely going to happen? Maybe I'm just not naive enough to believe that everything always goes as planned or that companies follow through with exceptions, especially 1 year after the discussion took place.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

Fair statement, some of us really do trust and believe the company we entrust our self and vacation choice with. The day I book without believing is the time I stay home. I am not the one who say at least I am away from home and on a cruise, so lies and deception don't matter. We are all different and clearly to each their own, parenting style and all. The bar should be set a bare minimum to expect some kind of notification.

 

Merry Christmas, I trust Santa will be generous because you were good, kind, and understanding:D

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[macleay]

If you knew 1 year in advance that they were canceling this would you really let her get worked up over it? If you were told they were sure an exception would be made you would just accept that and tell her it was definitely going to happen? Maybe I'm just not naive enough to believe that everything always goes as planned or that companies follow through with exceptions, especially 1 year after the discussion took place.

 

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To me, it is irrelevant that the change occurred a year in advance. They were "grandfathered" in, which is very common in businesses when they make changes. Those that have already booked are bound by the rules that existed when they booked. This is very reasonable to me and a good way to handle changes in policy.

 

Now, if the cruise line had refused to grandfather them in for this cruise, and OP knew about the change and knew the new rules would apply to them, and still expected compensation, I wouldn't have sympathy for them. But that is not the situation here. They did what I feel is very reasonable. They checked with the cruise line CSR, got an exception in writing, and expected it would be honored. Where is the fault in that and why does it matter if it were 12 months or 1 month in advance? They got the waiver (they thought) and relied upon it.

[spookwife]

Always best to read the original post on a thread. The OP HAD it in writing that the child in question COULD attend the kids club if they met the criteria of being potty trained.

 

So does that change your stance now?

 

only if they brought that paper in writing to the cruise and showed it to the kid's club staff and were still denied.( and if Junior was truly potty trained and not in a training pant/pull up). but I also maintain that at any point children can and ARE denied access to the clubs based on other issues. plus anyone can fudge an email to make things in their favor. the staff could have requested original copy on official letterhead and been within their rights to do so.

 

and even then.. demanding huge compensation for at best 18 hours where their child was denied access?? there was the nursery option to pursue( yes I know, not a guarantee but it could have at least been inquired about) if they really wanted an adult only dinner.

 

the rest of their complaints have less than zero merit and are not even worthy of demanding anything from the cruise line.

[Blk_Amish]

Considering they were well aware am exception was required and that it could go wrong (they did make it clear they do read these forums) why would you do that to your child? I never promise my child any activity I can not 100% guarantee. I may discuss it with him as an option but I make no promise that he will get to do it and discuss alternatives. This eliminates upset children and most tantrums.

 

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

Fair enough for you and your kids, that's beside the point. I never defend rubbish and teach my kids not to either, my choice. I would never take young kids on a cruise, not judging those who do, their choice. Again the change was made, notification should be sent to bookings that could be affected. We are talking about good business practice not parenting skills. You are accepting or condoning the fact the OP was misled and deceived, why?

 

I never read where BIG compensation was demanded so I guess I missed that or posters do what they like to do to justify flame, taking integrity away from the forum.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[spookwife]

To me, it is irrelevant that the change occurred a year in advance. They were "grandfathered" in, which is very common in businesses when they make changes. Those that have already booked are bound by the rules that existed when they booked. This is very reasonable to me and a good way to handle changes in policy.

 

.

 

By that token I should have raised holy hell when they changed the rules on access to the Concierge Lounge by children during the cocktail hour. when I booked, it was not permitted. about 4 months prior to sailing the change was announced that yes they would be allwoed during Cocktail hour. I SPECIFICALLY booked a suite so that I could guarantee a child free venue at least for 2 hours a day where I could enjoy a drink and some adult conversation. I never got it. so what, I should have demanded compensation for those 12 hours( 2 hours a night, 6 nt cruise)

 

But by golly I was grandfahers so I should have demanded that they not be allowed?! ( one little girl destroyed her area every night with ground up crackers smudged tables and other crap so badly that in the middle of the hour we had to endure a vacuum cleaner and housekeeper cleaning it up. )

[dread_pirate]

I am usually not sympathetic to the "I didn't get what they promised!" threads, but I am to this one. The cruise line should stand by its agents' promises, particularly those in writing.

 

Yes, the cruise contract says they can do basically anything they want to do. But, and this is a big BUT, depending on the law that would apply to the transaction, the cruise contract can be AMENDED IN WRITING to change the terms of that contract, so long as the writing occurred after the parties entered into the contract. I would argue in the OP's case that the cruise contract was in fact amended by the agent, and that failure to allow the younger child into the kids' club was a breach of contract.

 

There is also a concept known as "detrimental reliance" - if you make an otherwise non-binding promise to me, and I act based on that promise and am harmed when you fail to perform your end of the bargain, you have again breached a contract. While you could have reneged on your promise before I did anything, once I acted, you are bound. In this case, the OP relied, to the family's detriment, on the agent's statement that the younger child would be permitted to go to the kids' club.

 

Both of these arguments depend on the law of whatever state or country would apply to the contract, but I think they are reasonable arguments to make. (And yes, I am a lawyer.)

 

Would I consider my cruise "ruined"? Probably not, but that's me. Whether the OP's reactions are valid is a separate question from whether the cruise line breached the contract - that goes to the issue of damages.

 

And, putting my mother's hat on, I can understand how the younger kid would be disappointed. First, the OP said that the child was trying very hard to be potty trained so he could go to the kids' club. So the kids' club was an incentive. Second, even 2 year olds can see other kids on the ship getting to go somewhere that he can't go. Would I have tried to use this disappointment for both boys as a learning experience that sometimes we're disappointed in life? Sure. But that doesn't mean that the cruise line was right and somehow the OP is at fault.

[Blk_Amish]

only if they brought that paper in writing to the cruise and showed it to the kid's club staff and were still denied.( and if Junior was truly potty trained and not in a training pant/pull up). but I also maintain that at any point children can and ARE denied access to the clubs based on other issues. plus anyone can fudge an email to make things in their favor. the staff could have requested original copy on official letterhead and been within their rights to do so.

 

and even then.. demanding huge compensation for at best 18 hours where their child was denied access?? there was the nursery option to pursue( yes I know, not a guarantee but it could have at least been inquired about) if they really wanted an adult only dinner.

 

the rest of their complaints have less than zero merit and are not even worthy of demanding anything from the cruise line.

 

Could you copy and paste where you read that because in the end what or who we believe come down to truth. It only takes one poster playing with the truth and a few cheerleaders to make the whole forum become suspect. Where is the post with the big demand or did you make that up, the way the rep made up the information provided to the OP.? Please provide evidence to your claim/post as you expected the OP to present the paper work. If you can't, wow!

 

Thanks

 

Pauine

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[macleay]

By that token I should have raised holy hell when they changed the rules on access to the Concierge Lounge by children during the cocktail hour. when I booked, it was not permitted. about 4 months prior to sailing the change was announced that yes they would be allwoed during Cocktail hour. I SPECIFICALLY booked a suite so that I could guarantee a child free venue at least for 2 hours a day where I could enjoy a drink and some adult conversation. I never got it. so what, I should have demanded compensation for those 12 hours( 2 hours a night, 6 nt cruise)

 

But by golly I was grandfahers so I should have demanded that they not be allowed?! ( one little girl destroyed her area every night with ground up crackers smudged tables and other crap so badly that in the middle of the hour we had to endure a vacuum cleaner and housekeeper cleaning it up. )

 

 

I'm not sure the situation you describe above is the same. If the rules were changed and you contacted the cruise line directly and were given an exception in writing which was not honored, then yeah, I would've been upset. That's just bad business and wrong.

 

If the cruise line changed the rules after you booked and you didn't know about it and they didn't notify all people booked prior, I think that's bad business as well, my opinion. In this case, the situation is even worse, because the OP DID check and DID get an exception.

 

All companies do not grandfather people in who have booked early and I'm not suggesting they should--it's a business decision and their choice. I'm saying in this case they did and confirmed in writing and didn't honor it. Why shouldn't the OP be unhappy about that?

[Karysa]

only if they brought that paper in writing to the cruise and showed it to the kid's club staff and were still denied.( and if Junior was truly potty trained and not in a training pant/pull up). but I also maintain that at any point children can and ARE denied access to the clubs based on other issues. plus anyone can fudge an email to make things in their favor. the staff could have requested original copy on official letterhead and been within their rights to do so.

 

and even then.. demanding huge compensation for at best 18 hours where their child was denied access?? there was the nursery option to pursue( yes I know, not a guarantee but it could have at least been inquired about) if they really wanted an adult only dinner.

 

the rest of their complaints have less than zero merit and are not even worthy of demanding anything from the cruise line.

 

Nice to see that you DID change your stance once you read the OP's original thread.

 

Makes me think that there is some hope for others on this thread.

 

I had gotten permission to take my luggage off in St. Maarten and reboardthe ship before all aboard time. I presented the e-mail. No problem. We were escorted off with our luggage and security was informed of the reason by the guest services staff personnel. We reboarded at the end of the day without incident. If I had forgotten my e-mail I would have gotten Internet time and printed it from my computer infront of a staff member if required.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Karysa

[greatam]

To me, it is irrelevant that the change occurred a year in advance. They were "grandfathered" in, which is very common in businesses when they make changes. Those that have already booked are bound by the rules that existed when they booked. This is very reasonable to me and a good way to handle changes in policy.

 

Now, if the cruise line had refused to grandfather them in for this cruise, and OP knew about the change and knew the new rules would apply to them, and still expected compensation, I wouldn't have sympathy for them. But that is not the situation here. They did what I feel is very reasonable. They checked with the cruise line CSR, got an exception in writing, and expected it would be honored. Where is the fault in that and why does it matter if it were 12 months or 1 month in advance? They got the waiver (they thought) and relied upon it.

 

Where are you reading that the EXCEPTION applied to this particular child for this particular ship for this particular cruise? What I am reading is the OP emailed the cruise line and someone responded with most likely the general overall policy in effect at the time the email was sent. It also appears that the OP also neglected to take that email even with the general policy stated on the cruise.

 

This from a poster that is very, very good at deciphering policy changes and rules. She is an acknowledged expert on this forum when it comes to all thing passport, PVSA and closed loop cruises.

 

I believe the OP was booked on NCL. They made a change to their 2-3 year old policy in January of 2012. The change was phased in over time, and NCL selectively allowed 2YO kids into the program in 2012 if they met certain requirements, including if they had booked under the previous age limits (grandfathered).

 

NCL stopped allowing this exception as of Dec. 31, 2012. At the time the OP contacted NCL, it was likely that exceptions were still being allowed. That, however, stopped 11 and a half months ago.

 

Rules and policies change all the time. Rather than rely on an exception being honored indefinitely, all travelers should expect to follow the rules in effect at the time of travel. If one is notified a year in advance that the rules are changing, THAT is the time to change your plans. Don't expect an exception to still be made a year later.

 

 

 

If the exceptions stopped at the end of 2012, why would the OP even think the exception would be granted in 2013? If the OP merely got a response to her email stating the policy in effect AT THE TIME of the email and that email response does NOT state the SPECIFIC child, ship and cruise date, why would anyone think the policy would be inferred to be extended a year past the exception date?

 

I'm not sticking up for the cruiseline. I just think the OP KNEW there was a policy change, got a generic response from the cruise line and then it appears the OP didn't even take the generic response, let alone ask for a SPECIFIC response relating to her child and the exception.

 

Lots of fault all the way around. If the cruise line offered OBC or FCC, is that going to make the OP happy? Most likely not. I am reading "money back". And that just isn't going to happen nor is there any legal basis for it UNLESS that email is SPECIFIC to that child, that ship and that sailing date.

 

Maybe the OP will be kind enough to post her communication with the cruise line rep.

[Blk_Amish]

By that token I should have raised holy hell when they changed the rules on access to the Concierge Lounge by children during the cocktail hour. when I booked, it was not permitted. about 4 months prior to sailing the change was announced that yes they would be allwoed during Cocktail hour. I SPECIFICALLY booked a suite so that I could guarantee a child free venue at least for 2 hours a day where I could enjoy a drink and some adult conversation. I never got it. so what, I should have demanded compensation for those 12 hours( 2 hours a night, 6 nt cruise)

 

But by golly I was grandfahers so I should have demanded that they not be allowed?! ( one little girl destroyed her area every night with ground up crackers smudged tables and other crap so badly that in the middle of the hour we had to endure a vacuum cleaner and housekeeper cleaning it up. )

 

LOL, The truth is like cream, it eventually rises to the top.

 

If you took the time to inquire about the change and was deceived as the OP was, then yes you should be upset. I suppose you have kids and actually might like them but can appreciate a few minutes with adults and even your spouse. No different with the OP. They got something in writing and replied on it, that's reasonable and not bad parenting as some implied.

 

Where did you read about demanding huge compensation?

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[Karysa]

The children were sad? One wasn't old enough to even comprehend what had been taken from him. He'd never been in a kids Club on a cruise before so there wasn't even a memory to grasp at. The other made a personal choice. There was no reason for them to be sad unless the parents told them they should be. Kids are highly influenced by their parents emotions and reactions.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

My kids could and would have understood what they were missing by the time they were nearly 3. If we had taken them in to sign up for the kids club and they were told that they could not come back, they would have understood that and they would have been very upset. Many children attend nursery school/day care before this age so they have a very good idea as to what they would be missing. If you don't have experience with children though I can see how you might not see that.:)

Edited December 21, 2013 by Karysa

[Karysa]

Oh, I care very much about deception but I also like to keep things in perspective. In the over all scheme of things this was a very minor glitch (I do appreciate that the OP sees it differently, but that only goes so far). Should the cruise line have honored the commitment that their rep made? Yes. Should the cruise line offer something? Probably. Will they? Don't know but my guess is probably not. Does this change how I feel about said cruise line? No, because if I let everything that happened to someone else dictate who I did business with there would be no one for me to do business with.

 

I feel like singing. Such progress. Happy :)

[ducklite]

I see three separate complaints.

 

1. The younger child was not able to use the club after meeting all the requirements set forth by the cruise line. In my opinion, this is the crux of the problem, as the cruise line should have notified anyone who might be affected by this change in policy. This is a big deal, it definitely had a negative impact on their cruise.

 

2. The older child wouldn't go to the club without the younger one. Will not go to school because the younger one can't go? Will he not play Little League because the younger one can't play? What if the little one had been allowed to go but didn't like it and wouldn't go back?

 

3. Bad weather cancelled a port. And the point is? Ports get cancelled all the itme. It happens. If you can't deal with the possibility, take a land based vacation.

 

If the only complaint was #1, I think there would be a lot more empathy and understanding, and yes, I think that the line should offer some form of compensation--a discount on a future cruise or OBC. Throwing in #2 and #3 just makes the OP look like a whiney entitlement queen and muddy the water of the legitimate complaint.

 

By the way, don't they have a nursery? It seems that given the situation, a back up plan of some sort might have been wise. You never know when a younger potty trained child might have accidents in a strange environment and no longer be allowed to participate. It happens quite frequently.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[Blk_Amish]

Maybe the OP will be kind enough to post her communication with the cruise line rep.

 

They wouldn't believe it. Someone already posted that emailed can be changed. Once you are in a situation where things start to go wrong then everything seems to feel worse.

There has to be a clear expectation when certain changes occur the business has a moral responsibility to notify those who are affected. I am sure there is an app for that:D

CC can't be the final source of this kind of information when you don't know who to believe. The rest, different styles of parenting and even relationship. Some can't even comprehend a couple wishing to spend time without the kids. One either accept or condone deception or you don't.

 

The focus is forever on what the customer did wrong lowering the stand for the industry by not holding the business responsible for anything. Heck, they might raise fare for those who can't stand to be at home.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[Elaine5715]

I am in the no soup for you group.

The OP asked a question based on a series of Ifs. If the child was potty trained before the child was ...could they attend? Also threat I would allow a child to veto a family trip wouldbe the day I get to drive the ship.

[greatam]

There has to be a clear expectation when ceratin changes occur the business has a moral responsibility to notify those who are affected. I am sure there is an app for that:D

 

 

OBVIOUSLY, the OP was notified. Maybe not directly by the cruise line but the OP certainly knew about the change LONG before the cruise. She proactively sent email to the cruise line. The CSR replied with a most likely generic email stating the changes and policies in effect AT THE TIME OF THE EMAIL. There is absolutely NOTHING in any of the posts about this SPECIFIC child on a SPECIFIC ship on a SPECIFIC DATE in reference to the communication. Then all h*** could break loose if there was. And the cruise line could be sued for quite a bit of money.

 

But that certainly is not the way I am reading any of this.

 

PS: I am a non practicing transportation attorney. My older brother is a maritime defense attorney out of CA. Without those specifics, a goodwill gesture by the cruise line is all that could even be thought of. And granting that goodwill gesture is entirely up to the cruise line.

[Karysa]

I am in the no soup for you group.

The OP asked a question based on a series of Ifs. If the child was potty trained before the child was ...could they attend? Also threat I would allow a child to veto a family trip wouldbe the day I get to drive the ship.

 

I think being potty trained is policy. Are you trying to blame the OP because she was trying to follow the policy that children need to be potty-trained to attend the kids club?

 

I would have made the best of it because I was on vacation but I would have been very disappointed for my kids and a little disappointed for myself and DH as well. Cruises are great family vacations. Many lines sell it as that. The husband-wife relationship is an essential part of a healthy, happy family. This relationship gets a recharge on cruises for us whether it's a couples cruise or a family cruise. Knowing your kids are safe and happy allows for a little rekindle for mom and dad.

 

The cruiseline is at fault. My faviorite cruise line, if it is NCL. Gotta say I am a little disappointed with them.