NCL Blackjack Rules

[coold8]

Hi there,

 

I am practicing my basic strategy. I think I got the rules right from conventional blackjack on board.

 

6 Deck, Continuous, Dealer Stands on 17, Double Down on Any Card, Double After Split allow, Dealer Peeks on 10, No Surrender, Blackjack 3/2.

 

Can you confirm these are correct?

 

Thanks.

Edited February 2, 2014 by coold8

[pieshops]

Sometimes there is also a hand shuffle table but I think the odds are 2/1 on that table. For myself I would rather play the lower odds then deal with those stupid auto shufflers

[Froggitt]

From memory on NCL, dealer draws to a soft 17. And the BJ on a single deck table is 6/5

[garycarla]

Sometimes there is also a hand shuffle table but I think the odds are 2/1 on that table. For myself I would rather play the lower odds then deal with those stupid auto shufflers

 

The auto shuffler does not change the odds. It does not hurt or help you, unless you are a counter.

 

The slight advantage that the house gets with a shuffler is more hands per hour. So, the house then wins more in a given hour. They win NOTHING during the time the dealer manually shuffles cards.

[skeeter195]

On the Breakaway in October they:

-hit soft 17

-auto shuffler on tables less than $50 min

-8 decks

-3/2 on $50 and up tables and 6/5 on the others

[pieshops]

The auto shuffler does not change the odds. It does not hurt or help you, unless you are a counter.

 

The slight advantage that the house gets with a shuffler is more hands per hour. So, the house then wins more in a given hour. They win NOTHING during the time the dealer manually shuffles cards.

 

 

It does change the payout odds over a hand shuffle table

[garycarla]

It does change the payout odds over a hand shuffle table

 

 

How you referring to the "house payout rules", or the payout based on cards dealt?

 

Said another way, does it change the odds of my beating the dealer? Do the odds of hitting a blackjack change?

[thephillykid]

2 questions please....

On the craps table...what were the maximum odds and what was the table minimums?

Thanks,

Howard

[skeeter195]

Craps:

3-4-5 odds

$10 minimum on the 2 tables on the Breakaway

 

The odds deifinately change in an auto shuffler if you count cards. If you get a thin cut on a manual shuffle it can make a big difference.

[pieshops]

How you referring to the "house payout rules", or the payout based on cards dealt?

 

Said another way, does it change the odds of my beating the dealer? Do the odds of hitting a blackjack change?

 

Based on my experiences the chance of winning on an auto shuffler are less then with a hand shuffled shoe. I do not personally count cards in the traditional way but I do kind of keep track of what comes out and adjust my bet accordingly if a hand shuffled shoe.

 

When you hit a black jack on a hand shuffled shoe if you can find one they do pay less the. On the auto shuffler.

 

So I feel that you do have a better chance of hitting a blackjack as well as beating the dealer in a hand shuffled shoe based on my observations. I may be wrong statistically but that is what I experience.

 

If you think about it let's say they use 4 decks, that's 208 cards. If those cards are always continuesly shuffled and the amount of cards never diminishes then your odds of winning are less then in a shoe where the card to be dealt are constantly being dismissed and it is easier to kind of keep track of what has been and what is still to be dealt.

 

Hope this makes some kind of sense.

[Sizzlechest]

On the Breakaway in October they:

-hit soft 17

-auto shuffler on tables less than $50 min

-8 decks

-3/2 on $50 and up tables and 6/5 on the others

 

Whoa! What a rip off! I can understand hitton on soft 17 for a something like a $5 table, but a 6/5 payout on a blackjack?!

[johnql]

On the Breakaway in October they:

-hit soft 17

-auto shuffler on tables less than $50 min

-8 decks

-3/2 on $50 and up tables and 6/5 on the others

Do they use automatic shufflers or continuous shufflers? I seem to recall continuous ones, which are worse for the player than the automatic ones.

[garycarla]

Do they use automatic shufflers or continuous shufflers? I seem to recall continuous ones, which are worse for the player than the automatic ones.

 

It does not matter. UNLESS you are counting. As an earlier poster indicated, he does not count, but does somewhat keep track. That will give him an edge. How much is hard to say. With a smaller deck, you can have a small edge. If you do not keep track of played cards (counting at some level), then it does not matter.

 

The next card can be anything from a 2-10 to any face card. The odds and any particular card coming out are the same. Except for the ones already dealt which of course will not show again.

 

If you are able to track that, you can bet more aggressively based on that knowledge.

 

Things like 6:5 payouts will hit most people harder.

[garycarla]

The biggest fallacy in Blackjack?

 

If the guy at third place hits or stands irrationally, then you will lose more money.

 

Too many people think lack of basic strategy by one player will mess up everyone else.

 

Nope - has ZERO meaning. That time he hit on his 18 does not matter. The cards that are yet to be dealt to him and to the dealer are still totally random. He could help the dealer bust just as easy as he can help the dealer not bust. It just does not matter.

[lex_n_saph]

The biggest fallacy in Blackjack?

 

If the guy at third place hits or stands irrationally, then you will lose more money.

 

Too many people think lack of basic strategy by one player will mess up everyone else.

 

Nope - has ZERO meaning. [...]

 

These are all excellent points; particularly, with the continuous shuffle machine.

 

The 6:5 2 card blackjack is, by far, more damaging to any player.

[johnql]

It does not matter. UNLESS you are counting. As an earlier poster indicated, he does not count, but does somewhat keep track. That will give him an edge. How much is hard to say. With a smaller deck, you can have a small edge. If you do not keep track of played cards (counting at some level), then it does not matter.

 

The next card can be anything from a 2-10 to any face card. The odds and any particular card coming out are the same. Except for the ones already dealt which of course will not show again.

 

If you are able to track that, you can bet more aggressively based on that knowledge.

 

Things like 6:5 payouts will hit most people harder.

My understanding is that continuous shufflers speed up the game, which exposes more of the player's money to the house edge in a specified timeframe.

 

I do agree that 6:5 BJ payout is horrendous. I refuse to play a table that offers those odds.

[Delawarealan]

I was on the Sun from 1/1 through 1/12. There the $5 tables offered 6:5 on blackjack, but the $10 tables had the 3:2. I believe all tables had the continuous shuffler except the $25 and up tables.

 

I know the basic strategy like the proverbial back of my hand. I don't blame anyone for the strategy they use, as I know the cards are independent and anything can come next.

 

For what it's worth, I play the dealer's game -- the odds are with the house, and the house has to draw on any 16, so I do the same without any worry. I also double and split as much as possible, so I can maximize my upside potential when the cards I'm dealt look good.

 

 

Good luck!!

 

Delawarealan

[garycarla]

My understanding is that continuous shufflers speed up the game, which exposes more of the player's money to the house edge in a specified timeframe...

 

 

Bingo!

 

We have a winner.

 

More hands. More house advantage.

 

End of story.

[Froggitt]

The biggest fallacy in Blackjack?

 

If the guy at third place hits or stands irrationally, then you will lose more money.

 

Too many people think lack of basic strategy by one player will mess up everyone else.

 

Nope - has ZERO meaning. That time he hit on his 18 does not matter. The cards that are yet to be dealt to him and to the dealer are still totally random. He could help the dealer bust just as easy as he can help the dealer not bust. It just does not matter.

 

Mmmmm. I have a theory about this that I am yet to fully work out. Basically it involves me being in the last spot. Im sure I can improve my chances of winning by either taking the card, or letting the dealer take the card. Of course I don't care about anyone else on the table.......they just get your zero meaning above.

 

eg say I have 13 and the dealer shows a 9. You work out the odds of each card on each hand and figure out whether its best to take the card or let the dealer take the card.

 

Wheres Ben Mizrahi when you need him.......

[skeeter195]

garycarla, I have to disagree with the zero meaning comment. When a deck is rich in tens and a player at third base(or any position) hits say a 12 against a dealer 4, that player could have definately affected the outcome of the hand. The odds of a ten coming out in a ten rich deck can be much higher than the first hand of a shoe. By all means play basic strategy, but never go against it unless you understand when you can put the odds in your favor. The only time you would ever go against basic stategy and hit a 12 against a 4 would be less than .025% of the time. There are many "systems" and hunches that people think they have to win at blackjack. Truth is though the only real way to beat the house is to count cards on a thin cut shoe. That is why you will be banned from playing if you are caught counting.

[garycarla]

garycarla, I have to disagree with the zero meaning comment. When a deck is rich in tens and a player at third base(or any position) hits say a 12 against a dealer 4, that player could have definately affected the outcome of the hand. The odds of a ten coming out in a ten rich deck can be much higher than the first hand of a shoe. By all means play basic strategy, but never go against it unless you understand when you can put the odds in your favor. The only time you would ever go against basic stategy and hit a 12 against a 4 would be less than .025% of the time. There are many "systems" and hunches that people think they have to win at blackjack. Truth is though the only real way to beat the house is to count cards on a thin cut shoe. That is why you will be banned from playing if you are caught counting.

 

As I have said in earlier posts... if you are counting, then your play, and to some extent, the other players play could make a difference. If only playing basic strategy and NOT COUNTING, then....

[kurukthemal]

This is from the Wizard of Odds website

 

What is your opinion of the continuous shuffle machines now being used at the blackjack tables in Las Vegas? Do these machines give the house more of and edge even when a person is using basic strategy?

— John from London, Canada

 

For those who don't understand what you're asking, there are new machines that take the blackjack discards and place them randomly back in the deck after each hand. If you are using basic strategy, then the shufflers actually lower the house edge slightly, due to the omission of the cut card effect. It is my understanding that they do provide an honest random shuffle. However, the shuffling machine allows the dealer to waste less time shuffling and spend more time dealing. This means you will spend more time playing, and thus more hands for the house edge to grind you down.

[Nalagh]

On the Breakaway in October they:

-hit soft 17

-auto shuffler on tables less than $50 min

-8 decks

-3/2 on $50 and up tables and 6/5 on the others

 

Were all double downs allowed?

 

Cherie

[wasiii]

Hi there,

 

I am practicing my basic strategy. I think I got the rules right from conventional blackjack on board.

 

6 Deck, Continuous, Dealer Stands on 17, Double Down on Any Card, Double After Split allow, Dealer Peeks on 10, No Surrender, Blackjack 3/2.

 

Can you confirm these are correct?

 

Thanks.

 

When I first read this, all I could think of was coold8 sitting at home, in a chair saying "hit, stay, stay, double, I'll take the insurance".

 

;)

 

wasiii

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forums mobile app

[bjlaac]

You can read lots of literiture baseed on stats and theories to come to your own conclusion. From what I've read the continuous shufflers with the reduced blackjack payout odds make it almost impossible to win at blackjack.

 

Blackjack started as a simple 52 card game and when all 52 cards were in play, the house and player (playing basic strategy) hand an equal chance of winning. As hands were dealth it was discovered if there were more ace and ten card remaining compared to lower cards like 4,5 and 6 Players tended to win more hands than the dealers. When computer models playing hundreds of thousands of similated hands confirmed this card counting began.

 

To combat the counting casinos started adding decks until they got to 8 deck shoes. This had two effects, It made the initial hands when all cards were in play casino favorable even if you played basic stratagey and second making it harder for players to effectivley count cards because they only dealth through the equivalent of 4 plus decks before reshuffling. But even with the multiple decks there were times when shoes became ten card "rich" and good card counters could take advantage as well as basic stategy players realizing they were on a streak increasing bets and winning against the house.

 

The introduction of the continuous shoe has made blackjack similar to roulette in that the house always has an advantage, the shoe is NEVER in the players favor, never ten card rich, so over time the player can never win even if they play perfect strategy. For the average player tihis means nothing, as its pointed out, the continuous shoe makes for faster play and gives slightly better odds. But make no mistake, the odds are in the houses favor.

 

Having all this said, what does it mean? It means the house will always win more than it loses and yes, on some nights the player will win. so sit back and enjoy but don't expect to win. Rather, feel lucky if you do because we will always gample even if the odd are terribe, I only have to mention the lottery and you get my drift.