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Legal Aspect of Smoking on Cruiseship?

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I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship.

 

Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal.

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Well at least this is a new angle :rolleyes:

 

Check out the flags that fly on the ships, they are not property of any provice or city, therefore do not fall under our bylaws. Smoking is not a criminal offense in Canada it is still legal here.

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I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship.

 

Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal.

 

I am not a lawyer, and have not recently slept in a Holiday Inn, but...

 

 

I think they are not considered as part of the "city" and therefore may not be tied to those rules.

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I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship.

 

 

 

Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal.

 

 

Good lord

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

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Well at least this is a new angle :rolleyes:

 

Check out the flags that fly on the ships, they are not property of any provice or city, therefore do not fall under our bylaws. Smoking is not a criminal offense in Canada it is still legal here.

 

Not a criminal offense, but isnt still baned in the public space, and who ever breaks it will receive a fine for up to $300?

 

I mean if they close casino due to laws, doesnt that mean public health laws should apply.

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Not a criminal offense, but isnt still baned in the public space, and who ever breaks it will receive a fine for up to $300?

 

I mean if they close casino due to laws, doesnt that mean public health laws should apply.

 

Relax there is no indoor public space that anyone can smoke in while docked in any city except the isolated cigar bar.

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Not a criminal offense, but isnt still baned in the public space, and who ever breaks it will receive a fine for up to $300?

 

I mean if they close casino due to laws, doesnt that mean public health laws should apply.

 

You are arguing against yourself, since the casino is closed there is no "public place" on NCL that is open in Canadian waters. So even if you had a point there would be no fines levied because no "public place" is open.

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I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship.

 

Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal.

 

It is not a US or Canadian flagged ship.

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You are arguing against yourself, since the casino is closed there is no "public place" on NCL that is open in Canadian waters. So even if you had a point there would be no fines levied because no "public place" is open.

 

I See now, haven't thought about that, not sure about others, but when casnio is closed, isnt its still "open" where people walk through it to go to places they want to go. Thats the case i saw on the last time i cruised on pearl, although no body was smoking in the casnio when its closed(docked at Vancouver port).

 

If they were to smoke in casnio when it was closed as people walking by to go to restaruants, would that be illegal in this case.

 

Just a curious question, thats all. :)

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Actually, the casino area is open. But the machines and tables are not operating. During the boarding and debarkation, you will find people hanging out in there.

 

So, legal types.. is the casino open? Or is an area of the ship sometimes acting as a casino open?

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I See now, haven't thought about that, not sure about others, but when casnio is closed, isnt its still "open" where people walk through it to go to places they want to go. Thats the case i saw on the last time i cruised on pearl, although no body was smoking in the casnio when its closed(docked at Vancouver port).

 

If they were to smoke in casnio when it was closed as people walking by to go to restaruants, would that be illegal in this case.

 

Just a curious question, thats all. :)

 

If it's closed it's no longer a "public place", it would be like sneaking into your local Timmies if the restaurant is closed. It would then be up to management to call the cops for breaking and entering :rolleyes: :D

 

Seriously, you are now making yourself look silly.

 

Unless you intend to get off the ship and call the bylaw officer of Vancouver, I really wouldn't waste any more thought on this. As they would then need Canadian Border services and our Canadian security for permission to board the ship to check out the complaint. As you can see it is a ridiculous argument.

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Actually, the casino area is open. But the machines and tables are not operating. During the boarding and debarkation, you will find people hanging out in there.

 

So, legal types.. is the casino open? Or is an area of the ship sometimes acting as a casino open?

 

Not open. The common area is open.

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If it's closed it's no longer a "public place", it would be like sneaking into your local Timmies if the restaurant is closed. It would then be up to management to call the cops for breaking and entering :rolleyes: :D

 

Seriously, you are now making yourself look silly.

 

Unless you intend to get off the ship and call the bylaw officer of Vancouver, I really wouldn't waste any more thought on this. As they would then need Canadian Border services and our Canadian security for permission to board the ship to check out the complaint. As you can see it is a ridiculous argument.

 

I see now. that question just strike me, now looking back, you are right.

But i am not trying to argue at all. Its just a question.

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If it's closed it's no longer a "public place", it would be like sneaking into your local Timmies if the restaurant is closed. It would then be up to management to call the cops for breaking and entering :rolleyes: :D

 

Seriously, you are now making yourself look silly.

 

Unless you intend to get off the ship and call the bylaw officer of Vancouver, I really wouldn't waste any more thought on this. As they would then need Canadian Border services and our Canadian security for permission to board the ship to check out the complaint. As you can see it is a ridiculous argument.

 

It's like standing outside of a closed restaurant. The restaurant itself is closed. Can't utilize it; however, the common area, being the sidewalk and/or walkway is, of course open. Silly comparison, but I can't think of a logical way to answer :o

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It's like standing outside of a closed restaurant. The restaurant itself is closed. Can't utilize it; however, the common area, being the sidewalk and/or walkway is, of course open. Silly comparison, but I can't think of a logical way to answer :o

 

:D :D Well if nothing else, it probably gave a few of us a good laugh for today, I'm still shaking my head. :confused: ;)

Edited by che5904

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Well, there is a difference here and a big one. Since the casino is open air (no doors) being closed only means that you cannot gamble. But you can go in ad smoke, which happened frequently when we were on the Gem last week. The casino, even when open, has more smokers on the sides like a smoking lounge than smoking gamblers.

 

If you could go into the closed restaurant to smoke but not eat, now you have a comparison.

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Not open. The common area is open.

 

If you can sit in a chair at a slot machine, is that still a common area or casino?

 

Just a discussion.

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Here's the solution - the next time the OP is in Vancouver on a cruise ship phone the City's 311 service and tell them you want a by-law officer to come onboard and issue a ticket for each and every smoking offense they spot - the city can use the money to pay for bike paths and chicken coops.

 

Given that we can't even get them to come by some of the outdoor cafes where people smoke in open defiance of the law perhaps your charm and wit will get them to come.

 

Cheers!

 

Dennis

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Well, looking at Saint John NB Canada, there's a pedway system that connects several buildings together in the downtown area. Even when those businesses are closed, you can still walk through the hallways to move through the pedway system. Smoking is not allowed even though it is "closed".

 

I think you might have an argument to prohibit smoking in the closed casino while in port, but it would be a nightmare to police. Each city would have to enforce it separately, and each city would have to be contacted in the first place, they'd have to rely on self-reporting because they can't really go on the ship anyways, right? I don't think any city would consider policing it worth their while.

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If you can sit in a chair at a slot machine, is that still a common area or casino?

 

Just a discussion.

 

Good point! I would say yes - since the intent for which the chairs are to be used is not present at that time. If you were to sit in the chair when the casino was operational, and not gamble, is that a common area? I would say no because the chair, at that time, is intended to be used for slot machine play. If there is no slot machine play offered at the time, it's just a chair ... IMO.

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Ship is considered private and not public, defined by fare paying pax.

 

Well that actually does not hold any water where the provincial guidelines are concerned for bylaws. No different than our restaurants being privately owned but the OP doesn't have a case, since no one would actually act on this whether the OP is right or wrong.

 

And the bylaw officer has to actually see the infraction to be able to ticket it.

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If you can sit in a chair at a slot machine, is that still a common area or casino?

 

Just a discussion.

 

For discussion purposes the casino is closed "as per my dailies". The fact that there are no doors to keep those who feel to wonder in and out, or the fact that NCL doesn't encourage or discourage those who choose to "trespass". So my answer to that would be it is not a public space. Our bylaws state "public space" not common area.

Edited by che5904

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Well, looking at Saint John NB Canada, there's a pedway system that connects several buildings together in the downtown area. Even when those businesses are closed, you can still walk through the hallways to move through the pedway system. Smoking is not allowed even though it is "closed".

 

I think you might have an argument to prohibit smoking in the closed casino while in port, but it would be a nightmare to police. Each city would have to enforce it separately, and each city would have to be contacted in the first place, they'd have to rely on self-reporting because they can't really go on the ship anyways, right? I don't think any city would consider policing it worth their while.

 

Is that pedway system not owned by Saint John, if so there is your answer, it is an enclosed city public space. I'd have to bet that if you looked up your bylaws they have included that space in their write up.

 

Because technically it doesn't fall under the current ban for Canada or the ban for the province of N.B., so I'd bet the city has it somewhere in their paperwork.

Edited by che5904

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Irregardless of smoking preference, I think this is curiously interesting! Based on some of the info here, why then does the casino close, or more specifically, not operate while in port?

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Is that pedway system not owned by Saint John, if so there is your answer, it is an enclosed city public space. I'd have to bet that if you looked up your bylaws they have included that space in their write up.

 

Because technically it doesn't fall under the current ban for Canada or the ban for the province of N.B., so I'd bet the city has it somewhere in their paperwork.

 

Parts of it may be owned by the city, but other parts are owned by the private businesses the hallways run through (Brunswick Square, Market Square, etc.)

 

Have you ever been there? It's basically like walking through a closed mall.

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Irregardless of smoking preference, I think this is curiously interesting! Based on some of the info here, why then does the casino close, or more specifically, not operate while in port?

 

By-laws prohibiting gambling and not wanting to comply with federal regulations about how much must be paid out (I'm iffy on the second part, a friend of mine who works in a casino tried to explain to me the rules on how much they're required to pay out and apparently cruises are notoriously lower than land based casinos, but a lot of it went over my head, to be honest).

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To anyone thinking this thread has merit at all in Canadian waters. The provincial/municipal bans that the OP has brought up, fall under the same enforcements as a city leash law on your dog.

 

Also the $300 mention is actually an Ontario bylaw figure (OP is from Toronto, Ontario and I think is confused on what is a federal law and provincial bylaw), not Vancouver's. Vancouver's "break the smoking" regulation bylaw is $250.

 

We are not talking about breaking Canadian laws that throw you in jail and throw away the key.

 

And I may be off here, but I'm pretty sure our waters off the coast fall under federal jurisdiction "Canadian waters" not the city.

Edited by che5904

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Just for the record . People smoke in the casino when it is open , closed and any time in between ...

 

Legal ? you bet... Go ask NCL's 45 lawyers ... ;)

 

 

Ok , thats it for me . Im going to look for a Tray thread..

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Have you ever been there? It's basically like walking through a closed mall.

 

No I haven't yet had the pleasure. I haven't seen much of Saint John since I was 3 (and a ton of things have changed since then ;)). On our cruise to the east coast, we grabbed a rental car and headed for Gagetown. So pretty well the most I seen lately of Saint John is the highway.

 

But as I said if you research your City bylaws you will probably find it covered in there, the same as Ottawa's is.

 

"workplace: means any enclosed area of a building or structure in which an employee works and includes washrooms, corridors, lounges, eating areas, reception areas, elevators, escalators, foyers, hallways, stairways, amenity, areas, lobbies, laundry rooms and parking garages utilized by an employee."

Edited by che5904

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Casino may not be offically open but you never see the doors closed. On some ships the casino is a right of way public easement for traveling through. How's that for lawyer talk.

 

And if they did close the doors and forced me to detour around or up and over and kept me from my rightful enjoyment of that easement then that would be a causa belli.

 

On MSC Divina the casino is non smoking so that completely violates the smoke filled casino act of NCL and others.

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On MSC Divina the casino is non smoking so that completely violates the smoke filled casino act of NCL and others.

 

The casino on Divina is usually nonsmoking. However, the casino manager and/or pit bosses have the authority to allow smoking at gaming tables with actively playing/spending smokers.

 

It's all about the $$$.

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Just for the record . People smoke in the casino when it is open , closed and any time in between ...

 

Ok , thats it for me . Im going to look for a Tray thread..

 

I didn't know this actually. You mean I froze up on deck for nothing, when we were in non-international waters? I didn't realize it double as a smoking lounge, we've only used it to gamble.

 

That's too bad, we'll miss you, don't get lost among the trays.

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Casino may not be offically open but you never see the doors closed. On some ships the casino is a right of way public easement for traveling through. How's that for lawyer talk.

 

And if they did close the doors and forced me to detour around or up and over and kept me from my rightful enjoyment of that easement then that would be a causa belli.

 

On MSC Divina the casino is non smoking so that completely violates the smoke filled casino act of NCL and others.

 

Not sure whether that made a drop of sense or not but it sounded very impressive :)

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Not sure whether that made a drop of sense or not but it sounded very impressive :)

 

That's too funny :D What's the old dazzle them with brilliance line? :)

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I feel compelled to respond to this message as I am sick and tired of all of the smoking threads and comments. If you do not like it, stay at home! Since when did we turn this into a "legal matter". Are smokers not allowed to travel because you don't like it... too bad! I do not like people who wear too much perfume, so should I start a thread that says so?

... give me a break people!

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No I haven't yet had the pleasure. I haven't seen much of Saint John since I was 3 (and a ton of things have changed since then ;)). On our cruise to the east coast, we grabbed a rental car and headed for Gagetown. So pretty well the most I seen lately of Saint John is the highway.

 

But as I said if you research your City bylaws you will probably find it covered in there, the same as Ottawa's is.

 

"workplace: means any enclosed area of a building or structure in which an employee works and includes washrooms, corridors, lounges, eating areas, reception areas, elevators, escalators, foyers, hallways, stairways, amenity, areas, lobbies, laundry rooms and parking garages utilized by an employee."

 

Yeah, so like I said - it's likely "technically" not allowed, but I doubt they'd ever try to enforce it.

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That's too funny :D What's the old dazzle them with brilliance line? :)

 

Funny that - I thought that the b stood for 'bovine excrement' - not brilliance. Obviously I have a lot to learn about the legal 'system' on the other side of the pond.:rolleyes:

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And THIS is why I come back to Cruise Critic every frellin' day. Every time you think there can't possibly be something new for people to ask... someone comes up with something!

 

Richard

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