A little vent about Closed Captioning on Ships

[Taters]

The CC option on my last HAL cruise in April/May, 2019 worked beautifully!  This was on Zuiderdam.  This post was originally from 2014 and HAL has come a long way since then.

[drrtc1]

I am taking the Maasdam and have a Neptune suite.  I have tried to find out if they have Closed Captions or not.  I agree with the comment that the Zuiderdam has them since I did the 45 day Viking Cruise to Iceland, Greenland and RT.

 

 

[drrtc1]

All public-service television programmes in the European Union must be subtitled, the European Parliament has mandated. The Parliament vote, in the form of a written declaration, added that subtitles also help with foreign-language learning. Polish Socialist member Lidia Joanna Geringer De Oedenberg, who initiated the vote, said that partial or complete loss of hearing was a condition that affected more than 83 million people in the EU and that, given the ageing of the European population, this problem would continue to grow. She called on the European Commission to put forward legislation obliging public-service broadcasters to insert subtitles as soon as possible.

[chengkp75]

On 6/27/2014 at 11:58 AM, whiterose said:

The ADA Americans with Disabilities Act applies if a ship uses any USA port facilities such as starting or ending at a US port or visiting one. Where a ship is registered as nothing to do with it.

This is not totally correct.  In the case, Spector v. NCL, SCOTUS ruled that only certain portions of the ADA apply to foreign flag cruise ships.  In particular, the ship's "internal policies and procedures" (in this case the closed captioning or hearing assisted devices) do not fall within the purview of the ADA, unless Congress amends the Act to specifically mention foreign flag cruise ships.  In the 14 years since Spector, Congress has not seen fit to amend the ADA.

 

Ah, sucked in by the zombie thread.

Edited December 16, 2019 by chengkp75

[drrtc1]

Which is why I said that regardless of the law that is in place (registry and ownership are not the same either), we, as consumers will determine whether or not the ships change their tune on helping the hearing disabled.  You don't really think that most movie houses in the US offer Closed Captions because of the law, do you?   I suspect hard of hearing and deaf is a larger group than all of the other handicapped groups that now frequent cruise ships.  There are plenty of cruise lines that respect and help the hard of hearing and deaf.  Just let the ones that do not,  know when you cancel a world cruise with them it is because of their practices.  With the state of disarray in our legislative bodies, I doubt the law will change quickly and we cannot depend on that.  This is for consumer activism which determines how fast companies change policies.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, drrtc1 said:

(registry and ownership are not the same either)

Well, as far as US laws go, yes it is.  Regardless of whether a US citizen, or US corporation owns a vessel, if it is flagged under another nation, it is generally exempt from US law.  There are many companies that are incorporated in the US (and this is important for "ownership", where the corporation is incorporated, not where its headquarters is) that operate foreign flag ships that do not follow US laws.

 

And, since the ruling in Spector was 14 years ago, the current "disarray" in government has really nothing to do with whether the law will get changed or not.

[drrtc1]

I think that you just agreed with me that Registry and Ownership is not the same.  And as I said, in any case, it is consumer pressure that generally changes the behavior or corporations, rarely laws or Congress.

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, drrtc1 said:

I think that you just agreed with me that Registry and Ownership is not the same.  And as I said, in any case, it is consumer pressure that generally changes the behavior or corporations, rarely laws or Congress.

Yes, I agree that they are not the same, but ownership has nothing to do with what laws a ship operates under, only registry, so really, who cares who the owner is, or where their office is.

[drrtc1]

I think that you may be wrong since I checked this with Viking on the Closed Captions and have it in writing that they obey the laws of the Netherlands since that is where the ownership resides, not the US.   Nothing to do with Registry.   I replied that the EU has stricter compliance than US on hearing assistance since they also see it as help in educating immigrants in language.

 

However, this is far afield.  You can have this one if you want.  I only said that it was up to the consumers not the law to change cruise lines to be more friendly to the hard of hearing by CC, help with movie theater, shows, trivia pursuit, door bells, announcements, etc.  Begin with a letter writing campaign, up it to letters of the president of the line and then begin booking and cancelling with the reason of non compliance to hard of hearing.  There are plenty of ships that do comply.  If you want a list, I'll give it to you.

[drrtc1]

DOT changed this so that all disabled passengers have equal AIR access.  However, laws at sea are very murky.  I.e.. 

Jurisdiction

Most cruise lines register their ships with foreign countries and fly foreign flags. As such, the law of the country of registration may apply to events on such cruise ships. Additionally, for cruises departing from a U.S. port, the laws of the state where the ship departed, U.S. federal law, and various international treaties may apply as well.

Special maritime jurisdiction may apply pursuant to 18 U.S. Code Section 7 when an offense is committed by or against a U.S. national in a place outside the jurisdiction of any country, and cover foreign vessels that have a United States arrival or departure port.

Florida Statute 910.006 offers Florida law enforcement special maritime jurisdiction when an offense is committed and the victim is resident of Florida, the suspect on board the ship is a resident or citizen of Florida; more than half the revenue passengers aboard the ship originally embarked and plan to finally disembark in a Florida port; or the crime could have caused a "substantial effect" within Florida.

 

So you see, we can never solve the hearing problem by changing the law.  It has to be consumer driven.

[drrtc1]

Carnival Corporation Settlement

On July 23, 2015, the United States and Carnival Corporation entered into a Settlement Agreement resolving an investigation into numerous complaints conducted by the United States under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Among the complaints were allegations that the company failed to: reasonably modify policies, practices and procedures to accommodate individuals with disabilities; ... afford individuals with disabilities the same opportunities to participate in the programs and services, ... and provide effective communication during muster and emergency drills.

Relevant elements of the agreement with respect to access for people who are blind include:

The agreement specifies that the Carnival Corporation (owner and operator of Carnival Cruise Line, Princess Cruises, and the Holland America Line) will not engage in any practice that discriminates against individuals with disabilities in violation of Title III of the ADA. Carnival Corporation will designate an ADA Compliance Officer who will be responsible for compliance across the three brands. Carnival Corporation will also appoint an ADA Responsibility Officer for Carnival Cruise Line and for Holland America Group (which includes Holland America Line and Princess Cruises) who will have responsibility and authority to resolve ADA complaints for the respective brands. In addition, each covered sailing will have designated ADA Shipboard Officers available to address ADA issues that arise at sea.

Carnival Corporation will hire an ADA auditor to conduct surveys and audit each ship for compliance with the ADA Standards for Accessible Design in areas open to the public and in designated accessible cabins and suites. The ADA auditor will develop a plan to remediate barriers to access on each ship in conjunction with the Company’s dry dock schedule, conduct on-site inspections to verify ADA compliance, and file a report annually with the Department of Justice.

Carnival Corporation and the Covered Brands will improve the accessibility of its websites and mobile applications by bringing them into compliance with the World Wide Web Consortium's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0, Level A and Level AA. In addition, Carnival Corporation has created new standards to ensure ADA compliance. These include:

- Accessibility Requests and Complaint Procedure
- Dissemination of Information Regarding Accessibility - Training
- Accessible Airport Transfers
- Embarkation and Disembarkation
- Shore Excursions
- Effective Communication
- Dining

The Company's ships include places of public accommodation, inter alia, cabins, dining venues, specialty restaurants, bars and lounges, swimming pools, performance and movie theaters, internet cafes, spas and beauty salons, gymnasiums and outdoor jogging tracks, medical and auxiliary services (i.e., infirmary or medical center), and youth programs. Title III requires that the Company shall not discriminate against individuals on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations at any place of public accommodation.

The Company shall furnish appropriate auxiliary aids and services where necessary to ensure effective communication with individuals with disabilities unless it can demonstrate that taking such steps would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations being offered or would result in an undue burden. This includes an obligation to provide effective communication to companions who are individuals with disabilities.

 

"Effective Communication" means communication with persons with disabilities that is as effective as communications with others. Effective communication is achieved by furnishing appropriate auxiliary aids and services where necessary to afford an individual with a disability an equal opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is afforded to other individuals.

The Company agrees that individuals with disabilities will be afforded the full and equal enjoyment of the Company's goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations, and will not be excluded, segregated, or otherwise treated differently than individuals without disabilities.

 

 

[CruisinKikster]

ADA *does* apply to cruise ships per the Spector decision. Someone just wants to pretend it doesn't. 

 

A link (with sources): https://ncd.gov/progress_reports/01152008

[chengkp75]

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1388.ZS.html

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by chengkp75

[CruisinKikster]

You are interpreting it incorrectly. Out of curiosity, all I see from you is "ADA doesn't apply to cruise ships" when we all know it does. Why are you pushing that agenda so hard? Do you even need accommodations? 

[drrtc1]

7 hours ago, CruisinKikster said:

You are interpreting it incorrectly. Out of curiosity, all I see from you is "ADA doesn't apply to cruise ships" when we all know it does. Why are you pushing that agenda so hard? Do you even need accommodations? 

Here's pushing the issue in the wrong direction simply because he used to be ADA officer on a ship. Have your orders!

 

[chengkp75]

21 hours ago, CruisinKikster said:

You are interpreting it incorrectly. Out of curiosity, all I see from you is "ADA doesn't apply to cruise ships" when we all know it does. Why are you pushing that agenda so hard? Do you even need accommodations? 

No, I say that not all aspects of the ADA apply to foreign flag cruise ships.  I had to do ADA compliance remediation when we reflagged a cruise ship from the Bahamas to US, since much of the ADA did not apply when the ship was Bahamian flag.

[drrtc1]

Please reply to the question which was asking do you ever need accommodations with closed captioning?

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, drrtc1 said:

Please reply to the question which was asking do you ever need accommodations with closed captioning?

No, I do not.  I am not commenting on whether the lack of accommodations is correct or fair or not, I am merely pointing out the legality of it.

Edited February 25, 2020 by chengkp75

[Steerpike58]

We're on a Viking Sea cruise right now (Oct 2022) and there are no captions - neither on the 'on board' generated content, nor on basic 'third party' stuff like movies or news programs.  This is very disappointing. Nor is there any way to 'hook in' to the TV audio using Bluetooth. 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

Just a thought because I know of people who use their cables to display things from their computer——— they have to bring their own remote so they can get to more functions.  Even the butlers can help them set parts of it up.  Usually it’s how to get to the back of the tv.  Any chance your problem might be solved with a different remote?  Or was that tried. 

[Covepointcruiser]

There is little to no accommodation for folks with hearing loss on the cruise lines.    Guess they want to continue to ignore this group of disabled passengers.