gratuity question.

[Talisker92]

Well said!!! Unfortunately, this will not stop the posting of tipping threads. As I have stated before, if the cost was included in the cruise fare, the cruise line would have to pay commissions on it.

As an example, we just got off a 30 day cruise where the auto tip was $12 per person per day.

There were about 3,000 passengers, so that works out to $1,080,000. The saving of almost $110K goes right to the bottom line. And that is just on one cruise.

[chengkp75]

I generally agree with smeyer about tipping.

 

When a crewmember signs their employment contract, if it is a position that is covered by the daily service charge, their wage will be spelled out as "X amount in base wage, and X amount from daily service charge". It will then go on to explain that the portion from the DSC can be reduced based on short sailings (empty cabins) or at passenger discretion. Unfortunately, like most American, the crew sees the number, and disregards the fine print after it. All of this is clearly spelled out in the employment contract, which is required by the Maritime Labor Convention, which all UN nations must comply with, and which the US government can check for compliance with, even on foreign flag ships. The minimum wage allowed for any seafarer under MLC2006 is $585 per month (close enough, last time I checked). Now, say a cabin attendant has 14 cabins to service, and receives $1.65 per cabin per day from the DSC (I think that's close to what I saw for RCI), that's $693 per month, so the line could effectively pay them nothing in base wage. The MLC, which only went into effect last year, does have provisions for requiring overtime, which is why many lines have revised their wage policies in order to pay the same as before, but with a new structure. Back in 2004, I had non-DSC engine room staff, who were making $1.50 an hour, $2.25 an hour overtime, and these were considered prime jobs by the majority of the crew, so you know how much the hotel staff was making.

 

I will repeat what I have said all along about the DSC. It works for the lines, who don't care whether it causes the cruising public heartache over it or not, so it won't change. It allows them to advertise a cheaper cruise ticket price, and it forces a team approach to guest services (since one bad steward can result in many losing their DSC share), while taking the onus off the line for the reduction in pay for poor service (it wasn't us, it was the guests).

[smeyer418]

I generally agree with smeyer about tipping.

 

When a crewmember signs their employment contract, if it is a position that is covered by the daily service charge, their wage will be spelled out as "X amount in base wage, and X amount from daily service charge". It will then go on to explain that the portion from the DSC can be reduced based on short sailings (empty cabins) or at passenger discretion. Unfortunately, like most American, the crew sees the number, and disregards the fine print after it. All of this is clearly spelled out in the employment contract, which is required by the Maritime Labor Convention, which all UN nations must comply with, and which the US government can check for compliance with, even on foreign flag ships. The minimum wage allowed for any seafarer under MLC2006 is $585 per month (close enough, last time I checked). Now, say a cabin attendant has 14 cabins to service, and receives $1.65 per cabin per day from the DSC (I think that's close to what I saw for RCI), that's $693 per month, so the line could effectively pay them nothing in base wage. The MLC, which only went into effect last year, does have provisions for requiring overtime, which is why many lines have revised their wage policies in order to pay the same as before, but with a new structure. Back in 2004, I had non-DSC engine room staff, who were making $1.50 an hour, $2.25 an hour overtime, and these were considered prime jobs by the majority of the crew, so you know how much the hotel staff was making.

 

I will repeat what I have said all along about the DSC. It works for the lines, who don't care whether it causes the cruising public heartache over it or not, so it won't change. It allows them to advertise a cheaper cruise ticket price, and it forces a team approach to guest services (since one bad steward can result in many losing their DSC share), while taking the onus off the line for the reduction in pay for poor service (it wasn't us, it was the guests).

 

Thanks and I agree with you too on this.

Yes I know its different in other countries. I have already promised not to tip in Sydney.

BTW in general what you hear from the crew may or may not be accurate. They are trained to make you happy and to tell you what you want to hear. Its takes a long time to get them comfortable with you enough to tell you how it really is...and it doesn't happen on one cruise. They may think you are a company fink.

[qosmo8]

This is a truly pointless rant. Cruise ship staff ARE NOT paid anything near US minimum wage. They ARE, however performing specifically individual, personal service functions of the sort for which tips are traditionally given. When you talk about "airport support staff" are you talking about the unionized ramp personnel, or who? If you want to get a job where tips are part of the compensation, drive a taxi, carry luggage at a railroad station, work as a waiter in a restaurant. But, why come on a cruise discussion site to complain about the way workers in other employment areas are compensated?

 

I said, they get as much as in their country not as much as in US, and i'm saying why feel obligated to tip 1 service industry person and you normally don't tip them here. You can tip anyone who gives you personal service but i believe people were mentioning the support staff on ship. There are lots of support people here who earn a salary for a crappy job and who don't get tipped because they didn't give you personal service, someone cleaned your bathroom, someone washed your sheets, cooked your food and washed your dishes etc but they get a salary and not tips but when you go on a cruise your expected to tip them

As for the airport, i was talking about the " 8,000 subcontracted service workers who do much of the work that keeps the airports running: cabin cleaning, baggage handling, terminal security and ground transportation dispatching." who make 8 bucks a hour. So on your next flight give 1 a tip

[Flatbush Flyer]

I said, they get as much as in their country not as much as in US, and i'm saying why feel obligated to tip 1 service industry person and you normally don't tip them here. You can tip anyone who gives you personal service but i believe people were mentioning the support staff on ship. There are lots of support people here who earn a salary for a crappy job and who don't get tipped because they didn't give you personal service, someone cleaned your bathroom, someone washed your sheets, cooked your food and washed your dishes etc but they get a salary and not tips but when you go on a cruise your expected to tip them

 

As for the airport, i was talking about the " 8,000 subcontracted service workers who do much of the work that keeps the airports running: cabin cleaning, baggage handling, terminal security and ground transportation dispatching." who make 8 bucks a hour. So on your next flight give 1 a tip

 

 

Minimum wage here in SF is $10.74 with push to make it $15. Nonetheless, I still tip waiters, porters, etc.

 

 

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[smeyer418]

how much do they make?

it depends

if they are telling their drinking buddies..

if they are telling their spouse....

if they are telling someone to get them into bed..

and lastly...

if they are telling the IRS(or the taxing authorities)...

[njhorseman]

Well said!!! Unfortunately, this will not stop the posting of tipping threads. As I have stated before, if the cost was included in the cruise fare, the cruise line would have to pay commissions on it.

As an example, we just got off a 30 day cruise where the auto tip was $12 per person per day.

There were about 3,000 passengers, so that works out to $1,080,000. The saving of almost $110K goes right to the bottom line. And that is just on one cruise.

 

As a former travel agency owner, I disagree with your statement that the cruise lines would have to pay commission. They can make the equivalent amount of the auto tips/service charges part of the non-commissionable fare. And even if it was commissionable they could add a bit over $1 per day to the cruise fare to cover it...you'd never notice the difference.

 

Businesses never pay for anything...the ultimate consumer of the products or services pay as part of the price of the goods or services. I can assure you that the cruise lines would not lose a penny of profit if the tip/service charge was included in the base fare.

Edited May 13, 2014 by njhorseman

[navybankerteacher]

I said, they get as much as in their country not as much as in US, and i'm saying why feel obligated to tip 1 service industry person and you normally don't tip them here. You can tip anyone who gives you personal service but i believe people were mentioning the support staff on ship. There are lots of support people here who earn a salary for a crappy job and who don't get tipped because they didn't give you personal service, someone cleaned your bathroom, someone washed your sheets, cooked your food and washed your dishes etc but they get a salary and not tips but when you go on a cruise your expected to tip them

As for the airport, i was talking about the " 8,000 subcontracted service workers who do much of the work that keeps the airports running: cabin cleaning, baggage handling, terminal security and ground transportation dispatching." who make 8 bucks a hour. So on your next flight give 1 a tip

 

You still do not make any sense: why complain about airport employment contracts on a thread discussing tipping cruise ship staff?

[navybankerteacher]

People do not seem to like the idea of performance linked compensation, which is what removable service charges are all about. Perhaps one of the reasons all inclusive fares are so much higher than mass market fares is that there has to be more mid level supervisory personnel to monitor the service staff to ensure outstanding service. Without the notion that poor service might result in reduced income, some other means of encouraging top performance must be considered.

[TechMaven]

With all that said, but going back to the original issue, I'm planning to have room service for breakfast most days. Drink tips go directly to sea pass - who else needs to be tipped and how big should that stack of ones be for a 7-day cruise? Thanks for indulging these novice questions.

[jb456]

First I want to say - I apologize for bringing up a touchy subject (tipping)

 

Secondly - I want to share my opinion (keep in mind it's only 1 persons opinion)

 

----

 

After reading all your comments I personally don't agree with the gratuity automatically being added to drinks.The reason for this is that I like to tip according to the service I receive from a bartender.

 

What I mean by this is - I like my beers flowing. When I need a drink I don't want to have to stand there for 5/10 minutes trying to get a bartenders attention to get me another beer. I like it when the bartender notices I am almost finished my drink and asks if I want another.. or sees me walking up to the bar with an empty and already pulls out a new beer for me. Especially in the late hours at a nightclub. You already got a nice buzz, mingling with other guests and the last thing that you want ( buzz killer) is trying to get a bartenders attention to get another drink!

 

This is how I base my tipping... and if I am happy with the service they would be making a lot more then their 15% gratuity per drink.. If it was great service (like I mentioned above of what I want).. and a drink cost $7.75 they would be getting $10 total each and every round... ($2.25 tip per round)

 

If it was somewhat ok service I would like be paying $9 per round ($1.25 tip)

 

and well if it was horrible service, (bartender not attentive at all, having to wave him down to get his attention for a drink, wait 10 minutes) then I would be leaving $8 and walking away ($0.25 tip)...

 

This 15% gratuity leaves a sour taste in my mouth cause it is taking away from my own decision of what I want to leave a bartender as a tip. If I had great night, nice buzz, attentive bartender that just keep the drinks flowing with little wait times and a bit of conversation I would likely also leave him an additional $10 at the end of the night as a thank you.

 

Might sound wrong but I would expect that 1st awesome night be the same the 2nd night if it was the same bartender (based on how I am tipping him)... and if it was not then I would adjust my tips accordingly and likely move on to the next bar that deserves my money.

 

I'm sure some of you will say it sounds as if I am "bribing them" so to speak to get the service I want... I guess you can say that although I don't agree... Each persons different, when I am having a good time, things are going smoothly, I could care less of the cost. BUT if my buzz gets ruined each and every time I need a new drink cause I have to get a bartenders attention and wait extended periods then it does not sit well with me.

 

Now you might say that in a way "I am tooting my horn" well I'm not... Where I reside in Canada (Montreal) if you go downtown to a bar a beer runs anywhere from $6.25 to $8 plus tip. Just staying home and buying a case of 24 beer is $33-35

 

It's customary to tip in North America (more in certain areas) compared to other parts of the world.. Here in Montreal... if your downtown at a popular bar and not tipping then your not getting served... Well yes! technically you will get served but not the type of service you will expect... If your table is not tipping, or tipping very small, and the table next to you is better tippers then goodluck on getting drinks at a fast pace.. You will be waving your hand 2 or 3 times trying to get the waitress attention before she acknowledges you.

 

So growing up in that type of environment you learn how to get the service you want and since the cruise prices are pretty much the same as here there is no price difference in what I am paying...

 

When I am in the USA prices are very cheap at bars.. $2.75 to 3.25 a beer... And then I get people asking why I pay $5 a beer. (basically saying I am typing to much and this is coming from waitresses / bartenders who are making that in tips each round) but if they understood that same beer would cost me $8 to $10 in Canada then they wouldn't be asking those questions. It's not like I am trying to show off money or bride for a service it's just that it's actually still cheaper then what I normally pay.

 

So this 15% added on drinks on the cruise is kind of annoying. Yes I know I can tip on top of what was already charged BUT that is besides the point. I am already paying for an overpriced drink and I should have the ability to tip how I see fit.

 

This 15% is like telling the bartender "you can still treat the consumer like s$i% and still make tips" which is not right!

 

You might not agree - but after reading many threads about drink packages especially Carnival Line and their Cheers Package and bottomless soda package... many have said to "watch out" as once the bartenders find out you have a package they provide LESS service.

 

Which is exactly my point... they already have the upper hand on you cause the 15% is automatically added.. So what do they really care if they ignore your hand motion 1 or 2 times when trying to get a drink before serving you.. THEY DON'T! Cause whether there serving you instantly or 10 minutes later they will still be making money off you.

 

Again just my opinion!

Edited May 15, 2014 by jb456

[navybankerteacher]

With all that said, but going back to the original issue, I'm planning to have room service for breakfast most days. Drink tips go directly to sea pass - who else needs to be tipped and how big should that stack of ones be for a 7-day cruise? Thanks for indulging these novice questions.

 

Most would tip anywhere from $2 to $5 for a room service delivery. That is likely the only extra tipping unless you feel cabin or dining room steward went above and beyond, and thus might be entitled to extra tip above the automatic service charge. Probably $50 to $75 for a 7 day cruise should be plenty - but you don't need a big stack of ones - casino or pursers desk can change $10's or $20's for you.i

[Elaine5715]

If the 15% wasn't on the bar service, the percentage of people who would tip bar service would be less than 10 percent and maybe even less on ship where people would need to write it in or carry cash. People tend to leave their change for wait staff and only regulars tend to tip bartenders.

 

In many bars where wait staff tip out bartenders, bartenders will service those orders first instead of customers who are unlikely to tip. That's why smart customers know to tip if they visit regularly.

[MSN-Travelers]

First I want to say - I apologize for bringing up a touchy subject (tipping)

 

Secondly - I want to share my opinion (keep in mind it's only 1 persons opinion)

 

----

 

After reading all your comments I personally don't agree with the gratuity automatically being added to drinks.The reason for this is that I like to tip according to the service I receive from a bartender.

 

What I mean by this is - I like my beers flowing. When I need a drink I don't want to have to stand there for 5/10 minutes trying to get a bartenders attention to get me another beer. I like it when the bartender notices I am almost finished my drink and asks if I want another.. or sees me walking up to the bar with an empty and already pulls out a new beer for me. Especially in the late hours at a nightclub. You already got a nice buzz, mingling with other guests and the last thing that you want ( buzz killer) is trying to get a bartenders attention to get another drink! ....

 

 

.... Again just my opinion!

 

I have found "regulars" at any venue, that take the time to establish a relationship with the bar tender or table staff, never have an empty glass.

 

I can't speak for most cruise lines but on Princess "regulars" get served without even having to ask. On our cruise last month, we watched a guy at the aft pool simple raise his glass and the bar staff were right there pouring the next beer. And this happened every day, hour after hour.

 

I'm sure all it took was a simple instruction to that bar staff that they should just keep `m comin'. I assume he had purchased the all-inclusive booze package as I never saw him sign a bar slip. His buddies were buying their beers by the bucket, at a slower rate, but it never went empty either.

 

How you interact with the staff will make a huge difference.

 

Enjoy!!

[luddite]

i've talked to many of the staff and they are NOT paid 100 bucks a month and gratuities can be taken off by all the guest because its voluntary so how is that factored in when its voluntary and some cruises in other countries dont even have gratuities. Their salary is also included in our fare, and yes i can compare, its a service industry just like in this country, i have worked min wage jobs and it was expected that i clean the toilets so i did i refilled your toilet paper cleaned up your crap for 7 bucks a hour it was a service crap job and nope no tips because it was my job i knew what i was getting into when i worked it(thank god only for summer) I was a casual at the post office helping you get your mail lifting big boxes and heavy sacks of mail so it can keep moving, another crap jop making low wages, but nope no tip.

There are thousand of behind the scenes people making low wages in this country, people who make things run and get minimum wage but you don't tip them oh ya because your not asked to, and why aren't you asked to? because we believe that its your job to do it your getting paid for it but as soon as we get on a cruise we boo hoo for support staff on the ship, well pick up todays daily news(nyc) airport support staff is fighting to get a 1.00 more a hour, so as your flying to your next cruise remember the support staff at the airport that's getting minimum wage and on food stamps

 

Well this is nonsense. Lots and lots of bad info and advice.

On the other hand,.....it is VERY well written..........

[jb456]

I have found "regulars" at any venue, that take the time to establish a relationship with the bar tender or table staff, never have an empty glass.

 

I can't speak for most cruise lines but on Princess "regulars" get served without even having to ask. On our cruise last month, we watched a guy at the aft pool simple raise his glass and the bar staff were right there pouring the next beer. And this happened every day, hour after hour.

 

I'm sure all it took was a simple instruction to that bar staff that they should just keep `m comin'. I assume he had purchased the all-inclusive booze package as I never saw him sign a bar slip. His buddies were buying their beers by the bucket, at a slower rate, but it never went empty either.

 

How you interact with the staff will make a huge difference.

 

Enjoy!!

 

Happy to hear that... exactly how I like my service and I don't mind paying for it.... I need to find those bartenders on my next cruise :)

[Mrs.Gosse]

DH works closely with a guy who has been on ships for years. He says we should tip our staff at the end of the cruise. And in cash. He said 10 to 20 per person if they are good. It seems odd to me because I would think you would want the staff to know you are tipping each time so that it might provide you with better service throughout the week. But I also see the convenience of waiting since your server is most likely the same person all week. I don't think he meant bartenders who I would assume we would tip each time.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Forums mobile app

[qosmo8]

Well this is nonsense. Lots and lots of bad info and advice.

On the other hand,.....it is VERY well written..........

 

 

give me a break, i really don't care what you think. You cry for 1 group of low wage support staff worker but not for another is the point. Ok so when did the Auto tipping start? what 7 maybe 8 years ago? soooo all of you people who believe that support staff who do not give personal service should be tipped, not 1 of you tipped any of these people pre-2007 or so yet you still went on cruises, and i doubt you went running around the ship tipping the laundry staff, but now people take on this holier than thou attitude on tipping everyone because cruise lines 1 day decided to start auto gratuities. You don't tip any support staff anywhere else, not at resorts, bars, restaurants etc etc. You tip for personal service and if you don't believe that then why don't you tip support staff anywhere else? if you went to a restaurant and they said oh tip the guy who empties the garbage, you wouldn't. I've worked as support and up front, and tips are for personal service and doing a good job at it.

[njhorseman]

give me a break, i really don't care what you think. You cry for 1 group of low wage support staff worker but not for another is the point. Ok so when did the Auto tipping start? what 7 maybe 8 years ago? soooo all of you people who believe that support staff who do not give personal service should be tipped, not 1 of you tipped any of these people pre-2007 or so yet you still went on cruises, and i doubt you went running around the ship tipping the laundry staff, but now people take on this holier than thou attitude on tipping everyone because cruise lines 1 day decided to start auto gratuities. You don't tip any support staff anywhere else, not at resorts, bars, restaurants etc etc. You tip for personal service and if you don't believe that then why don't you tip support staff anywhere else? if you went to a restaurant and they said oh tip the guy who empties the garbage, you wouldn't. I've worked as support and up front, and tips are for personal service and doing a good job at it.

 

You don't realize it, but often you are tipping support staff at restaurants. It's very common for the wait staff to be required to "tip out" (meaning turning over part of their tips) to support staff such as bus people and bartenders. This isn't just at fancy restaurants either.

 

Also resorts often now charge a "resort fee" to guests...a concept very similar to the cruise lines' service charges.

[qosmo8]

You don't realize it, but often you are tipping support staff at restaurants. It's very common for the wait staff to be required to "tip out" (meaning turning over part of their tips) to support staff such as bus people and bartenders. This isn't just at fancy restaurants either.

 

Also resorts often now charge a "resort fee" to guests...a concept very similar to the cruise lines' service charges.

 

I do know about Tip out as i've worked in some places that did it, so yes your right about tip out some places do have that but not all.

 

Resort fees are for what? "generally, the fee includes amenities such as WiFi, shuttle service, a newspaper, and the in-room phone". If cruises wanted to charge me for wifi fine but thats different than auto gratuity . Nowhere does it say any of the resort fees go to the maintenance staff etc so its not similar imo

[luddite]

I do know about Tip out as i've worked in some places that did it, so yes your right about tip out some places do have that but not all.

 

Resort fees are for what? "generally, the fee includes amenities such as WiFi, shuttle service, a newspaper, and the in-room phone". If cruises wanted to charge me for wifi fine but thats different than auto gratuity . Nowhere does it say any of the resort fees go to the maintenance staff etc so its not similar imo

 

Soooo........

you don't have a clue about what happens on the ship?

[Emperor9]

tipping is optional , take it off and tip as you want.

[NMLady]

tipping is optional , take it off and tip as you want.

 

On many cruise lines if you remove the 'gratuity' then whomever you tip will have to turn in their tip so it can be pooled with the others who should have received part of it. A list is kept of the cabins removing the tip and the cabin steward in particular will be asked about it.

[sapete]

tipping is optional , take it off and tip as you want.

 

 

And as I have found in talking to cruisers who do remove the auto-charge is that "tip as you want" usually equals zero.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mytime2014]

DH works closely with a guy who has been on ships for years. He says we should tip our staff at the end of the cruise. And in cash. He said 10 to 20 per person if they are good. It seems odd to me because I would think you would want the staff to know you are tipping each time so that it might provide you with better service throughout the week. But I also see the convenience of waiting since your server is most likely the same person all week. I don't think he meant bartenders who I would assume we would tip each time.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Forums mobile app

 

my mom still thinks you should tip $1 at breakfast, $2 at lunch, $3 at dinner. She's been eating at restaurants for years....I always slip back to the table and leave a real tip BTW but I feel bad for her servers when one of her kids is not there. [of course that is a great increase in her opinion from when you just left a quarter.....:o]

 

You don't tip bartenders each time as the 15% is added to your bill when you sign for it or swipe your card.

If you don't do autotip, your steward gets called into find out why, and then has to put the $10 or $20 in the common pot anyway.

 

But to each his/her own.