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Are tips pooled?


lysolqn

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What a well thought out posting. I sometimes think folks consider the cruise staff the own personal family...which is a nice way to feel about others. But you are right, they are responsible adults, who have entered into an agreement and for years that agreements seems to have worked pretty darn well!

 

One small point on "pooling" there always has been some pooling in one form or another. The staff that work the buffets and have no assigned table or extra shifts in the dining rooms at lunch or breakfast, or the waiters that have partially filled tables, etc. These folks also 'earn" a portion of the passengers' good will 9ie, tips).

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Why does it matter?

 

The cruise staff are adults and they have entered into employment knowing full well what is expected of them and what they will receive in exchange.....just like any of us who are employed. If my potential boss said I had to share my income with other people, it would be my choice to accept those conditions or find somewhere else to work.

 

It's none of our business what arrangements the crew make in regards to their tips or what they choose to do with that money once we hand it over to them. For all we know the generous tip you gave your steward last cruise might have gone right into the pot in the crew's weekly poker game.

 

Our philosoply is to tip a normal amount for normal service and to tip extra to those who went above and beyond for us. We prefer the automated tips, it's just more convenient for us. If we wish to give something extra to a crew member we will give it to them in cash. There are no strings attached to the money I give, if they share it, pool it, keep it, it's all the same to me. Once I hand it over it's not my money anymore and what the crew member does with it is his own business.

 

You are certainly free to feel that way. However, I feel that my money is my business, and I do think it's reasonable to find out if that "extra" tip is really going to go the person for whom it is intended, because these people rely on tips for most of their income. I don't think that's "attaching strings" at all. I don't care what they do when they get the tip, either - that's missing the point - I just want to make sure they actually GET my tip. For example, if you give $100 extra for your waiter, and put that extra amount on your automated tipping account, and that $100 just goes into a pool to be distributed among workers that DIDN'T wait on you, then what's the point of rewarding that one person? (Yes, I know that even with pooled tips, people still get a bit more money if we give extra, but it's not the same as rewarding outstanding service. As I said before, we all know that Celebrity is a very service oriented cruiseline, and I would bet that the crew members hope to be rewarded individually for outstanding service.)

 

Desertbelle, you said yourself that you give any extra amount in cash; why do you do this if you don't care where the tip goes? You obviously have figured out that cash is the best way for someone to receive an extra tip, so why say that it's none of our business, and deny that information to someone else? Didn't you make it your business to find out that cash is better than the automated, at least as far as extra tipping is concerned? Not trying to be rude here, just trying to make a point.

 

I would guess that many cruisers aren't aware of a ship's tipping/pooling/tipping out policy, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask about it. It may be their money when they receive it, but it is my money when I give it, and I, for one, want to be sure that the extra amount goes to the person for whom it's intended. I say this as someone who relied on tips in hotels and restaurants for 10 years, and I was never offended when anyone asked tipping questions. On the contrary, most "tippees", so to speak, would prefer that people know how the "tipping system" works. Another example: most people on this board know that the tipping guidelines are way too low, but not every cruiser is aware of this. I'll admit that on our first cruise, my husband and I didn't realize how little the ship's stewards/waiters/etc. were paid by the cruise line, and although we tipped slightly more than the recommended amount, had I been more informed, I would have tipped much more. Until the ships start including their crew's tips in the price of the cruise, and paying them a reasonable base salary with tips as "rewards" instead of the majority of their income, I think that cruisers SHOULD be more knowledgeable about the tipping process. (By the way, no I don't think the above scenario will happen soon, if ever. And no, I'm not suggesting that it should, either. That's an entirely different debate.)

 

So, information is not necessarily a bad thing, and I don't think there's any need to chastise those of us who would like to stay informed - especially as it benefits the crew in the long run! Just my $.02.

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Information is a good thing but I remember hearing this quote once "It takes a village". The point is there are a lot of people that help that cabin steward or the waiter and why should you stiff them because thats the only face you see. Your cabin steward may get that laundry to you quicker because the laundry people prioritized something on his sayso. The kitchen may have prepared something special that was requested by the waiter but they both made it happen.

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Information is a good thing but I remember hearing this quote once "It takes a village". The point is there are a lot of people that help that cabin steward or the waiter and why should you stiff them because thats the only face you see. Your cabin steward may get that laundry to you quicker because the laundry people prioritized something on his sayso. The kitchen may have prepared something special that was requested by the waiter but they both made it happen.

 

Do you think I don't know this? If you read my post, you'll realize that I know full well that there are many people working together. A person doesn't work in this industry without knowing that, so no need to lecture me on this. Have YOU ever made a career working in the hotel/restaurant/hospitality industry? (And I don't mean just at a summer job.) I find that people who haven't almost always have a different viewpoint on tipping. ;)

 

But you missed my point, and to accuse me of stiffing someone is beyond rude. My guess is that the base tips do get shared quite a bit, but I was referring to "extra" tips for someone who went above and beyond. Those extra tips are probably shared as a small percentage, as in the "tipping out" situation described earlier. However, there is still a difference between tipping out and pooling tips. And there is certainly a difference between those two situations, and the case of at least one crew member who didn't receive his extra "automatic" tip at all. (See the story earlier in this thread.)

 

Either way, I stand by my opinion. The part of this that many people seem to miss is that certain jobs are more suited for a tipping salary, and others aren't. Many jobs have a set salary, as there isn't really any possibility for "great service". They do their jobs, and that's that. Most hotels, restaurants, (and ships I would bet), realize this, and pay those workers a reasonable and set salary. Chefs and laundry workers included. It would be ridiculous for the ship to rely on tips for a majority of the positions on the ship. You can get carried away in thinking that every person we tip has to share it with every other job position in their department. Remember, there is a difference in "service" jobs, and jobs with a specific duty that don't require serving passengers. So, waiters who tip the asst. waiters, maitre d', wine steward, and bartender? Sure! But tipping the chefs, the people who are preparing food for the chef, and the laundry workers who clean the tablecloths and napkins? I doubt it.

 

Now, we have no way of knowing if (as described in the above post) crew members on a ship do things like tipping the dry cleaning staff to expedite someone's suit, but it's possible. However, that is between crew members, and has nothing to do with the guests' tipping.

 

The only question here is, "Does an extra tip that's intended for someone who went above and beyond the call of duty ACTUALLY go to that person?" My guess would be yes, otherwise I doubt that we'd see the kind of service on Celebrity that's described on these boards all the time - there would be little incentive.

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It always amazes me that because someone has been on many cruises they are somehow experts or discount the research gathered by someone who has cruised a few times. There is no incentive for an employee to tell you that his or her tips are pooled because doing so would lower the tip pool. An employee is required to turn in ALL money given to them into the pool or face demotion, other discipline or firing if caught. It has been this way for many many years on many many ships.

 

Tips are pooled in the finest land restaurants. Why on earth would you think that it is any different at sea.

 

Again, the absolute best way to reward an employee is to mention them by name on your comment card or letter to the company.

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I wanted to give a more concrete example of why I feel the way I do about these "bonus" tips. I was working at a resort restaurant, and a fellow server of mine struck up a conversation with a guest that he was serving. It was a slow night, and the guest and his companions had quite an enjoyable evening chatting with their server - who also happened to be very personable, funny, and always gave outstanding service. Through the course of the night, the server mentioned that he wanted to start up his own business someday, just in casual conversation. When the guests had left and the server collected the check, he found a $1,000 tip, to go towards his business project. Now, that server didn't have to share any of that tip, except the required percentages of his sales (not % of his tips!) to give to the assistant waiter, etc. And my guess is that if that guest had thought that his $1,000 would be split up among the rest of us, he wouldn't have given it. And to me, that is quite fair.

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It always amazes me that because someone has been on many cruises they are somehow experts or discount the research gathered by someone who has cruised a few times. There is no incentive for an employee to tell you that his or her tips are pooled because doing so would lower the tip pool. An employee is required to turn in ALL money given to them into the pool or face demotion, other discipline or firing if caught. It has been this way for many many years on many many ships.

 

Tips are pooled in the finest land restaurants. Why on earth would you think that it is any different at sea.

 

Again, the absolute best way to reward an employee is to mention them by name on your comment card or letter to the company.

 

You've never worked in this industry either, have you Flagger? I say this because your comment about land restaurants is incorrect. I HAVEN'T been on many cruises, and never said I was an expert on cruise tipping. I HAVE, however, worked in the "finest restaurants on land", as well as top resorts, and I can tell you that NEVER have I been in a situation where tips were pooled. Most restaurants DON'T do this, and therefore, the better servers are rewarded. That's the incentive to become a better server!

 

If they don't do it this way on the ships, that's their choice, but it appears that there are many conflicting facts, including this comment:

"Tips are not pooled by the waitstaff. My son-in-law was a waiter on Celebrity for several years and he said the tips were never pooled."

 

Flagger, did you work on a ship, or did you get your information by asking someone? I think this was the reason that someone suggested having a number of cruisers pose the question on their next cruise, and look at all of the responses to see what the consensus is.

 

And, I DO write letters to employers all the time. Crew member may get better choices of work stations b/c of a good guest comment, but that's only a part of it. You can't buy bread with a letter ;) ...

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Desertbelle, you said yourself that you give any extra amount in cash; why do you do this if you don't care where the tip goes? You obviously have figured out that cash is the best way for someone to receive an extra tip, so why say that it's none of our business, and deny that information to someone else? Didn't you make it your business to find out that cash is better than the automated, at least as far as extra tipping is concerned? Not trying to be rude here, just trying to make a point.

 

Actually, if you read my post again, you will see that what I said is that we prefer automated tipping because it's more convenient for us and tip in cash if we want to give something more to someone who did an exceptional job. I didn't "figure out that cash was best", I figured out that automated tipping gives everyone a set tip and if we want to add to that tip it's EASIER to give them cash than it is to go down to passenger relations desk and make an adjustment to our automated tip. So your point isn't made.

 

As far as your comment about working in the "tipping" industry.....I'm from Las Vegas. I doubt there is any town in the US that is more tip dependent than Las Vegas. Not only have I worked for tips in the past, but 2 of my sons are parking valets and they depend on tips to raise their families. Most of the tips in Las Vegas, at nearly every resort, hotel, casino, etc., are pooled. At some resorts people with more seniority will get more of a cut of the tips than someone who just got hired on. If someone gave my son a $100 tip and he slipped it in his pants and someone saw him or found out, he could be fired, and if not fired you can well imagine what the other valet guys would think about him...they would make his life miserable.

 

Just yesterday someone told me about a blackjack dealer who dealt a man playing $25,000 a hand 8 winners in a row. When the man left the table he left the last bet and the winnings from that bet on the table for the dealer, $50,000. I am sure that man thought that $50,000 would change this dealer's life, but in reality, that dealer got about $2000 of that tip because it was pooled and all the dealers on that shift got a piece of it....everyone went home happy that night!!

 

I think that if it bothers you so much that the large tip you leave someone for exceptional service might not all go to him, then you shouldn't leave it. Even if someone you tip has to pool it, that person understands the generous gesture you have made towards him and that you appreciate him and his service and isn't that what you want him to know??

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Nice post as usual. I have lots of things to add but it would be redundant.

 

I wished people realized the feedback cards are even a more important factor then tipping. I dont know how many people put an effort into them. What I do know is people rarely talk about it in these forums.

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There are certainly some opinions on this thread.:eek: I happen to agree with what Margie says in her first post. I'll do what I see fit and not worry about it. I'm on holiday. If it ends up somewhere else, then there is nothing I can do about it and all the differing stories here won't help me decide beforehand either. As long as I am happy doing what I do then that is all I can do.

 

No-one is accusing you of stiffing, Ekaj. You need to lighten up and do as you see fit as will everyone else.

 

Phil

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I do both. I gave cash tips to my waiters/stewards and I wrote down everyone's name on the evaluation cards who provided especially warm, courteous efficient service. I even made the effort to track down waiters who were not our regular servers (i.e. served us at lunch or were especially helpful in the Windsurf) to find out their names.

 

When I got home I wrote a letter to Celebrity and once again complimented these particular crew members for an outstanding job. I received a call from Celebrity telling me that the crew would be told and a note would be placed in their file as this would count toward promotions, time off, etc.

 

This was only my second cruise but on my first cruise on Homes Lines I met my husband who was a Home Lines dining room waiter. He had also worked on P&O and Cunard Lines. He told me they never pooled tips on either the Oceanic or the Doric. He has also worked in fine restaurants in New York City. Most of the upscale restaurants DO NOT pool tips.

 

And yes, there is that tipping out system which was mentioned. He would have to pay the busboy something and in some cases the maitre'd to get good stations to work at.

 

I think some confusion may come in while talking about cruise ships because the "service charge" you pay on drinks/wines does get pooled which helps out those who may be assigned to a bar or area of the ship which is very slow.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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Here is what happened in the past regarding this issue:

 

Tips have been pooled - and thereby guaranteed - for the past 100 years on nearly every cruise ship in the world. The envelopes you used to give the waiter - and still do on some of the more traditional lines - were NEVER kept by him. As soon as the last guest went down the gangway,

all the waiters went to the diningroom and handed in their envelopes to the Maitre d'.

 

The Maitre d' and his assistants counted up all the money, placed it in a pool, and then divided it up according to how many "points" each waiter had earned in the Maitre d's book. It was ALWAYS pooled, the waiter ALWAYS knew he would get tipped even if you did not tip him. There was the same incentive 20 years ago that there is today. Why didn't the waiters tell you they pooled the tips? Because they learned early on that Americans tip better if they think that the money is going to one person. As soon as you find out that others are sharing in the pool, you tend to tip less. Most waiters are not stupid.

Here is the difference now:

There are four changes today:

1.The pooled tips come from the Purser instead of opening all the envelopes.

 

2. The really cheap passengers who disappeared on the last night to avoid tipping are now embarrassed to remove the tips through the Reception Desk. This means the pool is larger and the waiters earn more tip money.

 

3. The quality of passenger has gone down dramatically over the past 20 years. They tip far less and are not nearly as sophisticated as before. Their expectations of service and quality are far lower than they were 20 years ago. Some waiters get lazy because they know that many of their guests do not really understand real service anyway.

 

4. With all the extra restaurants on many ships these days, you rarely see the same waiter twice. He rarely has the chance to get to know the guests as he did 20 years ago. This results in you having to explain to him your wants and needs every time you dine - rather than just once like you did 20 years ago. The service you receive under these circumstances does not seem nearly as personal as it did before.

Tips are pooled on just about ever major cruiseline. Do not let the waiters and stewards fool you into leaving more that they will not see the total of.

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Zalusky. How do feed-back cards feed the kids at home or pay for their schooling?

 

I never said not to tip. I am saying I believe in the tips on the shipboard account approach where everyone gets a more stable salary.

 

These days the tip is really salary and is pretty much required.

 

Some people have claimed that if all tips are put on the ship account giving the staff consistent realistic salary that their incentive would go down.

 

I believe that feedback card is still there for incentive. You can praise and then ding them and it makes a difference.

 

Once again I personally believe they would make more money with prepaid tips then they do now.

 

The only difference is your not seeing there smile when you hand them the envelope and THAT is what I think this is all about.

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The automatic tips on all of the Carnival brand lines do in fact go into a pool. Carnival, Costa, Holland America, Princess, Windstar and Cunard. I received an explanation for HAL as to their procedures. If the guest leaves the automatic tips on their accout, then any extra cash the steward gets is his to keep. In the case where the guest removes the tips from the account, then any cash tips must be turned into the pool. Very easy to track the honesty after three cruises. Failure to comply may result in not having the contract renewed. Either the steward/waiter is dishonest or just not good enough to deserve tips. No cruiseline needs either type. Of course the tips of those, cruising on Celebrity or Royal Caribbean, that choose to have tips placed on their account will be distributed equally to the appropriate servers. Not a general pool.

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This certainly turned out to be an interesting thread despite the heat it generated.

 

Knowing tips are pooled, we will definitely re-think our usual habit of tipping considerably more than the suggested amount. If the extra isn't going directly into the pocket of the person we wish to thank for exceptional service, I see no reason to go above and beyond.

 

How many times have you heard a disembarkation talk at which the cruise director discussed "suggested" tips and then went on to say that if you found someone whose service was particularly pleasing to you, you could certainly feel free to give more than the suggested amount since it would be greatly appreciated by that server or attendant. Knowing what I do now, I can't help but think that's a little misleading. Gee, if you give $100 over the suggested amount and divide that by the number of staff in the pool, you're favorite employee may end up with an extra $5!

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We just got back from Galaxy, and heard a fascinating talk/Q&A session on 'Life at Sea' with the Hotel Director and the Cruise Director. They answered all our questions thoroughly and candidly. They said tips make up 90-95% of the salary of the wait staff and stewards, but no one asked about pooling. Maybe a CC'er can ask that during that same session on an upcoming cruise.

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You can arrange to have tips charged to your account on Celebrity. It just doesn't happen automatically. The nice thing is that if you do arrange it, you get little cards you can still actually hand to the people who you are tipping. That way you can write a little note on it, too, if you like.

 

I have read 2 different versions about getting the little cards when you PRE-Pay your tips. Some say that they didn't get them. How recently have you experienced getting the cards for the pre-paid tipping?

 

Thanks,

Karen

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I'm curious to know if anyone provides a tip in advance... it seems to me that it might be a good idea for steward(esse)s or butlers that can "work miracles" during your journey.

 

And, for what it's worth, when I was a waiter on the StarShip Majestic back in the early nineties, we didn't pool tips. I have no idea what they do on Celebrity.

 

:rolleyes:

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SkyGuy. In 18 cruises, I've never felt it necessary to bribe the staff for excellent service. I've even thought that in some cultures, it could be insulting. My experiences have indicated that the staff takes great pride in their service.

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! was interested to find out the answer to this question so I e-mailed a Celebrity waiter who we have known for 10 years. We correspond fairly regularly. He just completed is last cruise and is opening his own business.

 

He says the waiters keep their own tips. They've had a few problems with the automatic tipping where some passengers will tell the waiters they put the tip on the shipboard account when they haven't. He says it seems to happen mostly with those who don't speak English and he thinks maybe they don't understand that you have to request that this be done.

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I'm going with flagger, tips are pooled on Celebrity. This was the topic for this thread and for the one I asked a while back. With pooling, we will rethink our tipping for all our future cruises.

 

I'm jumping ship :D, will now go with Ma Bell! Sorry flagger, guess I'm fickle.

 

What to do, what to do? :confused:

 

Will continue to tip as always. :eek:

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