Whatever happened to privacy laws

[bcd2010]

I can't help thinking of this scenario: What if my ex, who has a history of domestic violence, found out, somehow (perhaps from mutual acquaintances, probably accidentally), that I would be on a cruise and pulled this stunt? I would cancel, of course, if I knew in advance (and what if I didn't find out before-hand?) - but the issue is whether the cruise line should be so free-and-easy with that info. I'd sure prefer privacy.

[SeagoingMom]

It is good to know that this can happen -- good for everybody, actually, on both sides of this issue. This way we can all know in the future: 1. whether to be circumspect in our announcements about our cruise plans, or 2. whether we can "surprise" someone by accompanying them on their cruise. (That surprising someone in this way may or may not be a wise decision is a separate matter.)

 

What I am wondering is whether somewhere HAL does not have some fine print that explains what info about us and our booking they claim the right to make use of at their discretion. Whether such fine print is easily available for viewing by customers is another question.

 

My guess is, HAL does this sort of thing all the time, and most times, everybody is happy. This is one of those times when the accommodating nature of HAL's booking practices seems to have backfired.

 

Although it may be too late for the OP to escape the ramifications of HAL's policy (though the OP does not state she wants to), perhaps she would be doing everyone a favor by discussing this with HAL. Or perhaps HAL might offer some sort of compensation (a little OBC, perhaps?) for the dissatisfaction expressed by the OP -- it couldn't hurt to ask. Even so, I imagine most pax are satisfied with HAL when they do what they have done, as most pax want HAL to do this. It's a sticky wicket.

 

Thanks for giving us all a lesson, wannagonow123, though I am sorry for your sake that you had to learn it, too.

[Keith1010]

HAL should have not done that.

 

Keith

[PathfinderEss]

I agree, Hal should not have done that.

[HokiePoq]

OK, I have to ask - what is the reason for being near the back of the ship because you are smokers? Just curious.....

 

 

Considerate smokers, I imagine, as smoke would blow off the end of the ship.

As to the original question, I agree, but the more important question is why the in laws would not consult with the OP first. We travel with various friends and family members and ask each other this if we want to be near each other. Our reservations get linked and this gets you seated together in the dining room ,etc. Or not if the other person wants a different location for their cabin than we do.

We recently booked a HAL cruise with an online broker we'd used before but not for booking HAL. I looked up my mariner number to give them and was told "No problem, I have that." I think the TAs and cruise lines have a giant data base which they share. I certainly get ads from all the other Carnival owned lines. Somewhere, in some cruise contract somehow, we gave up a lot of privacy. There is some convenience in return.

I think OP's problem is with the in laws but it was not HAL's place to do that.

[kazu]

Well, if someone wants to send you a gift they should be able to do it with your names and keep it a secret so you are surprised when you board.

 

On the other hand, if someone says they are a relative or friend, I do think HAL should check first. Sadly, as per the example earlier there may be people one chooses not to be close to - even a stalker-sadly those people wouldn't have the courtesy to let you know they have booked.

 

Sadly, this may be too high of an expectation

[kazu]

Considerate smokers, I imagine, as smoke would blow off the end of the ship.

As to the original question, I agree, but the more important question is why the in laws would not consult with the OP first. We travel with various friends and family members and ask each other this if we want to be near each other. Our reservations get linked and this gets you seated together in the dining room ,etc. Or not if the other person wants a different location for their cabin than we do.

We recently booked a HAL cruise with an online broker we'd used before but not for booking HAL. I looked up my mariner number to give them and was told "No problem, I have that." I think the TAs and cruise lines have a giant data base which they share. I certainly get ads from all the other Carnival owned lines. Somewhere, in some cruise contract somehow, we gave up a lot of privacy. There is some convenience in return.

I think OP's problem is with the in laws but it was not HAL's place to do that.

 

I think they can pull up your mariner number from the name and phone number easily once they have connected with HAL

[cbr663]

This post reminds me of twenty years ago when I was attending university and worked part time in the accounts receivable office of the university. At the beginning of every semester, I would have an entire week of parents calling to pay for their child's university fees and nearly every conversation went like this:

 

Parent: Can you tell me what courses she is enrolled in?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: Can you tell me how many courses she is enrolled in?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: Can you tell me if the medical coverage has been added/deleted?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: Fine. If I give you my credit card number, can you tell me how much will be charged to the credit card?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: What do you mean? I am paying for it and you won't even tell me how much is going to be charged to my account?

Me: I am sorry Mr or Mrs Parent. Your child is an adult and I can only share that information with her.

Parent: But I'm her mother and I am the person paying for it.

Me: I am sorry, but as I said, your child is an adult and I cannot share any of her personal information with anyone else without her written permission to do so.

 

Obviously the OP's cabin number can be easily used to locate the OP and is therefor considered personal information. By accessing this information and using it as the basis of making another booking, without the express consent of the OP, one could argue that HAL did not respect the privacy of the OP. By making the booking directly across the hall, HAL has made it quite easy for the OP to be located.

[durangoscots]

I had a similar thing this year with my Alaska cruise. A friend decided she would like to go on the same cruise.... fine. What was not fine is that she called HAL and gave them my name (not booking number) and they told her they had given her the cabin next to mine. It was ok.... but I was unhappy they had told her that the cabin was next to mine and I did let them know about it. No response.

 

Susan

[TiogaCruiser]

I agree HAL should not have done that. Who knows who the person really is who is trying to book. Seems to me they should require a booking number in the very least.

 

Several years ago I was at a convention and forgot to tell DH what room I was in. We were to meet for a gala that night. The front desk would not even confirm I was a guest there. We both felt a lot better knowing that.

 

That is just a hotel- a cruise ship becomes so much more isolated unto itself.

[doublebzz]

I agree HAL should not have done that. Who knows who the person really is who is trying to book. Seems to me they should require a booking number in the very least.

 

 

Several years ago I was at a convention and forgot to tell DH what room I was in. We were to meet for a gala that night. The front desk would not even confirm I was a guest there. We both felt a lot better knowing that.

 

That is just a hotel- a cruise ship becomes so much more isolated unto itself.

 

A man calls HAL, says I'm Mr. Smith, and my son, Mr. Smith, is sailing on this cruise. I would like a cabin near him. Presumably, to get a booking, both parties would have to give accurate information about their identity.

 

Your wife is very understanding. If my wife was in that situation, she would probably suspect foul play on my part and threaten the desk clerk with castration if he didn't part with the room number or at least call the room.

[HokiePoq]

I think they can pull up your mariner number from the name and phone number easily once they have connected with HAL

 

 

Nice to know, thanks.

[HokiePoq]

This post reminds me of twenty years ago when I was attending university and worked part time in the accounts receivable office of the university. At the beginning of every semester, I would have an entire week of parents calling to pay for their child's university fees and nearly every conversation went like this:

 

Parent: Can you tell me what courses she is enrolled in?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: Can you tell me how many courses she is enrolled in?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: Can you tell me if the medical coverage has been added/deleted?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: Fine. If I give you my credit card number, can you tell me how much will be charged to the credit card?

Me: Sorry, no I cannot share that personal information.

Parent: What do you mean? I am paying for it and you won't even tell me how much is going to be charged to my account?

Me: I am sorry Mr or Mrs Parent. Your child is an adult and I can only share that information with her.

Parent: But I'm her mother and I am the person paying for it.

Me: I am sorry, but as I said, your child is an adult and I cannot share any of her personal information with anyone else without her written permission to do so.

 

Obviously the OP's cabin number can be easily used to locate the OP and is therefor considered personal information. By accessing this information and using it as the basis of making another booking, without the express consent of the OP, one could argue that HAL did not respect the privacy of the OP. By making the booking directly across the hall, HAL has made it quite easy for the OP to be located.

 

You have brought to mind many bad things that could happen this way. Here's a funny one except not to the parents involved....They had paid college tuition for their son (though him, big mistake) for four years and got ready for graduation only to find he'd been living in the college town and having a blast for four years and enrolled in no classes at all.

Yes, I'm convinced OP is right that HAL should not have given the number as they had no way of knowing if it was really OP's relative or someone stalking them for a bad purpose.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

For all the huffing and puffing about privacy laws we have seen so far, how come is it that no one bothered to mention that privacy laws are almost never enforced?...

 

So true! A bit OT, but if you take the time to read the fine print of those privacy policy statements that banks, etc., send out from time to time, you will see that they list all the ways they violate your privacy and still remain within the law. They are allowed to share your personal information with "partners" and "affiliates", etc. Scary.

[durangoscots]

A man calls HAL, says I'm Mr. Smith, and my son, Mr. Smith, is sailing on this cruise. I would like a cabin near him. Presumably, to get a booking, both parties would have to give accurate information about their identity.

 

quote]

 

Actually of course, he could get a booking- but maybe not next to Mr. Smith (the younger) unless he had his booking number or we had both talked to the same TA, PCC or whoever.

 

Susan

[navybankerteacher]

I do wonder if sometimes HAL is doing that because it thinks that it is being helpful. HAL would be more helpful if it understood privacy laws and made a commitment to adhere to them. I understand you concern and one cannot help but wonder what other personal information HAL would willingly share if asked.

 

A number of posters have referred to " privacy laws" - it would help if they cited the statutes which they feel are being violated.

 

It is obvious that the OP must have given the in laws a fair amount of information: ship and date. The in laws possession of that information was reasonable grounds for HAL to assume that there was no desire for privacy - and the HAL staffer was attempting to be helpful.

 

I believe that if the OP were to raise the issue with HAL , HAL would make every effort to rectify by assigning a different cabin - of equal or better level.

[cruisemom42]

I can't believe anyone would think this is okay. :eek:

 

HAL won't even confirm that there is a large group onboard your sailing (due, many here have said, to privacy issues). So how is it okay for them to confirm someone is a passenger on a particular ship absent clear evidence (such as booking number) that the passenger has passed on the information to the other person? Suppose the other person (say an abusive ex-partner or spouse) was merely fishing for information but didn't know for sure whether this was the cruise?

 

Or what's to stop someone on your roll call with whom you might have casually chatted or shared info for a private tour, from deciding that they want to be booked next door to you onboard ship and become your new best friends. I'm sure this would be an annoyance for many.

 

I would never have thought any cruise line could confirm I was onboard a particular sailing without a booking number. As a solo traveler, it is a little upsetting to discover otherwise.

[serendipity1499]

You know that this is the law as it applies to the Federal Government, right?

 

Yes I do know that, but if you look at the Freedom of Info Act it also states This Act does not apply to "PRIVATE COMPANIES OR ASSOCIATIONS" as I quoted from the ACT in my post.. HAL is a private company!

 

As far as I know there is NO law or ACT which would apply to HAL with the exception of giving out the cabin or booking number.. Obviously HAL could not do that, but in this case either the OP or her Husband told the in-laws on what ship & what date they were on, so don't blame HAL for accepting the BIL's reservation..

 

I was a Mgr & in charge of our Res. Dept, & many calls pertaining to Psgrs lists were transferred to me or one of the Supervisors.. I could not divulge our Psgr list except to the Police/FBI or Immigrations etc. & I had to verify their phone number first.. However if someone called & told me that his daughter was on the flight & he wanted to be put on the same flight, I could book him without confirming the Psgr list. or the seat his daughter was in & yes I could even put him in the seat next to his daughter..

Edited June 25, 2014 by serendipity1499

[RuthC]

I'm not a lawyer, and have never played one on TV, but I doubt there are any privacy laws that were violated here.

Which does not mean that HAL doesn't have a poor business practice if it reveals information about their individual passengers.

 

Should the in-laws have been able to book a cabin on this ship/date? Of course; HAL is in the business of booking cabins to anyone who is willing to pay the fare.

 

Should HAL have acknowledged that the OP was aboard, and offered to place the caller near her without her consent or further information? No. That's the business practice that needs to be revisited. Either get permission from the OP before proceeding, or have the caller furnish the OP's booking number and/or cabin number.

 

It's the HAL policy that needs to be addressed, for the benefit of all passengers.

[wannagonow123]

I suppose I should have titled this "How about a little privacy" and left out the word "law". I am not going to sue, cancel, or anything else. I just wanted to vent how everything came to be.

 

I guess they were jealous of how excited we were about the cruise, and wanted to partake. I wished they had spoke to us first, and we would have given them our cabin#. I can still smile, because we did not tell them how much we paid. We got one of those casino offers. When I asked how much they paid, I snickered. Their inside way way more than our balcony.

[navybankerteacher]

A little off-topic: but I am inclined to feel that privacy is important and should be respected, some privacy laws (or at least application thereof) extend to absurd length. Two state universities, whose financial aid programs demand all sorts of information from parents - before rejecting applications (in my case at least) still refused to provide ANY information concerning courses selected, meal programs elected or any details concerning medical treatments (even the fact that any treatment had been provided) - and refused to send reports of academic progress. They were, of course, delighted to accept my tuition checks.

 

What I found interesting was the fact that a private college had no problem with providing parents with that sort of information - leading me to believe that Federal statutes were not that clear cut.

 

Sure, HAL probably should not have assigned the cabin they did - or even confirm that OP had booked - but in this particular instance, OP's loose lips were more to blame than HAL's attempt to provide service.

[serendipity1499]

I can't believe anyone would think this is okay. :eek:

 

HAL won't even confirm that there is a large group onboard your sailing (due, many here have said, to privacy issues). So how is it okay for them to confirm someone is a passenger on a particular ship absent clear evidence (such as booking number) that the passenger has passed on the information to the other person? Suppose the other person (say an abusive ex-partner or spouse) was merely fishing for information but didn't know for sure whether this was the cruise?

 

Or what's to stop someone on your roll call with whom you might have casually chatted or shared info for a private tour, from deciding that they want to be booked next door to you onboard ship and become your new best friends. I'm sure this would be an annoyance for many.

 

I would never have thought any cruise line could confirm I was onboard a particular sailing without a booking number. As a solo traveler, it is a little upsetting to discover otherwise.

 

That's true they will not confirm Psgr. lists & no where did the OP state that HAL confirmed they were on the cruise.. The in-law called & told the Agent what cruise they were on & asked to be put in a nearby cabin..The HAL agent did as asked without confirming they were on board!..

 

You are correct, there is no way you can protect your privacy when you join a roll call! You are the one who is confirming that you are on board & HAL can't stop anyone from booking a cabin next door to you..

 

And as a solo Psgr I would never join a roll call, because I would be blabbing to everyone (not just CC members) who even looks at this WEB site that I am on board a particular ship & date!

[navybankerteacher]

I suppose I should have titled this "How about a little privacy" and left out the word "law". I am not going to sue, cancel, or anything else. I just wanted to vent how everything came to be.

 

I guess they were jealous of how excited we were about the cruise, and wanted to partake. I wished they had spoke to us first, and we would have given them our cabin#. I can still smile, because we did not tell them how much we paid. We got one of those casino offers. When I asked how much they paid, I snickered. Their inside way way more than our balcony.

 

I am glad that no real harm was done in your case - and your learning of relative pricing must provide a little compensation.

[serendipity1499]

A little off-topic: but I am inclined to feel that privacy is important and should be respected, some privacy laws (or at least application thereof) extend to absurd length. Two state universities, whose financial aid programs demand all sorts of information from parents - before rejecting applications (in my case at least) still refused to provide ANY information concerning courses selected, meal programs elected or any details concerning medical treatments (even the fact that any treatment had been provided) - and refused to send reports of academic progress. They were, of course, delighted to accept my tuition checks.

 

What I found interesting was the fact that a private college had no problem with providing parents with that sort of information - leading me to believe that Federal statutes were not that clear cut.

 

Sure, HAL probably should not have assigned the cabin they did - or even confirm that OP had booked - but in this particular instance, OP's loose lips were more to blame than HAL's attempt to provide service.

 

When our Son enrolled in a local university, 30 years ago, we had a Parents orientation..Since we were paying his tuition, we asked if the University would send us reports of his academic progress & they said they could not even though we were paying for it!

 

No where did the OP state that HAL confirmed they were on board!

 

[Typhoon1]

Simple answer, they booked them, because it was an easy way to fill another cabin.