Expedia pushing me to accept 22 hour layover

[CanWeGoYet?]

I booked flights from Narita to Seattle way back last december through expedia. I am flying Singapore Air the first leg of the flight - to LAX. We have a 2nd flight to Seattle through Virgin Air, with about a 3 hour layover.

 

I just got called by Expedia when I was shopping in a grocery store - saying the 2nd flight was cancelled or some such, and that they have 2 alternative flights for me. Both the next day, around 11:30 AM.

 

I booked nonrefundable flights. Now I am kicking myself for not just booking through Celebrity choice air, and getting the direct flight on United to Seattle. I thought Singapore Air would be a step up, but not if I am forced to book a hotel in LAX or spend the night in the airport. A third alternative, they would change my flight from Narita to the next day, & my flight plan would be essentially the same but a day later.

 

Do I have to accept the change in plans, which will greatly increase my trip cost to either book another hotel night in Tokyo, or LA? It's already a long trip with the transpacific cruise, I've lined up pet sitters etc & really don't want to add another day. I dpn't even know if my hotel has a vacancy to add another day - I booked hotel early because we need twin beds.

 

I checked out flights again just the other day - there are 5 cheap flights on Alaska Air that would work to get us back in Seattle on the same day. I mentioned this to the Expedia rep but he said no it has to be on Virgin. What a pain. I am going to call back tonight to straighten this out, but hoping for some advice from others more knowledgeable. I feel like the guy was fast talking me & pressuring me to accept a fairly lousy resolution.

[FlyerTalker]

I booked flights from Narita to Seattle way back last december through expedia. I am flying Singapore Air the first leg of the flight - to LAX. We have a 2nd flight to Seattle through Virgin Air, with about a 3 hour layover.

 

Do I have to accept the change in plans, which will greatly increase my trip cost to either book another hotel night in Tokyo, or LA?

 

I mentioned this to the Expedia rep but he said no it has to be on Virgin. What a pain. I am going to call back tonight to straighten this out, but hoping for some advice from others more knowledgeable. I feel like the guy was fast talking me & pressuring me to accept a fairly lousy resolution.

So...a simple question to start off. Do you have one through ticket or two separate tickets that Expedia grafted together into one price? If two tickets, then most assuredly the agent was correct. Your second flight is booked on Virgin America. Why should you be rebooked onto Alaska Airlines, a direct competitor, because your original Virgin America flight was cancelled? You are being rebooked with your Virgin ticket onto another Virgin flight. Now, you possibly could ask for a refund on that Virgin ticket and purchase one on AS yourself. But even then, who knows if you have a published fare ticket or a consolidator ticket resold by Expedia? Do you know? Do you know your fare basis? Do you know the fare rules for your ticket?

 

Until you have more information, you have no way to honest say that the agent is fast talking you.

 

And as a final note...be careful using terms like "Virgin Air". There is no such company, while there are Virgin America, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia and Virgin Samoa. Which are separate airlines (though there is cross ownership with the last two).

[6rugrats]

I don't know the terms and conditions of this ticket, but usually, if you'd booked directly with the airline, with a schedule change like this, you'd be able to cancel and get a full refund and book a better flight. I am guessing you are traveling on a Singapore Airlines ticket?

 

Is your second leg on Virgin America? Did you look at their schedule and see if there was a better choice for you (I know there aren't that many LAX-SEA flights)? Singapore is also a partner with AA and UA. Is there a flight on one of these carriers that would work for you?

 

I would have a list of what I wanted before I called. If you can't get what you want, don't accept any change. Wait until tomorrow (maybe you'll get some better suggestions here from other posters) and try again.

 

If that's not possible, consider just purchasing a ticket LAX-SEA and skipping the Virgin flight.

[CanWeGoYet?]

Right all, it was Virgin America. I purchased both flights through Expedia at the same time. I have 2 different E codes. Maybe it is absurd to think they would try to book me a flight on Alaska air instead - I tend to think it is no more absurd than asking 2 passengers to accept a 22 hour lay over.

 

The least painful option may be to eat the cost of the Virgin America tickets, since they are non refundable, & just buy new tickets on Alaska. And then hope the new flights don't get rescheduled or cancelled.

[Globaliser]

I booked flights from Narita to Seattle way back last december through expedia. I am flying Singapore Air the first leg of the flight - to LAX. We have a 2nd flight to Seattle through Virgin Air, with about a 3 hour layover.

 

I just got called by Expedia when I was shopping in a grocery store - saying the 2nd flight was cancelled or some such, and that they have 2 alternative flights for me. Both the next day, around 11:30 AM.

Right all, it was Virgin America. I purchased both flights through Expedia at the same time. I have 2 different E codes. Maybe it is absurd to think they would try to book me a flight on Alaska air instead - I tend to think it is no more absurd than asking 2 passengers to accept a 22 hour lay over.

It's hard to know what options you might have, or reasonably expect to be able to ask for, without knowing the details of your travel plans.

 

My guess is that after you disembark in Yokohama on Sunday 28 September, you're staying on until Saturday 4 October. You were hoping to connect from SQ12 arriving at LAX at 1330 onto VX795 departing LAX at 1650, but that's now been cancelled and the next VX to SEA is on Sunday 5 October at 1135.

 

When you say that you bought both flights through Expedia "at the same time", was that in one transaction or two? Did you ask Expedia for a single trip from Tokyo to Seattle, or did you buy one flight and then buy the second flight in a separate transaction immediately afterwards? I'm not sure what you mean when you say you have "2 different E codes" - even if you had a single ticket covering all of Tokyo-LAX-Seattle, you'd still probably have at least three different booking references (one for Expedia and at least one for each of the two airlines).

 

If my guess as to your travel is correct, I'd be wanting to change the Virgin America to a different LAX-SEA flight. Whether you have to badger Virgin for a refund or whether you should be badgering Expedia to make things right for you depends on whether you have one ticket or two.

[6rugrats]

Difficult to understand from information given; OP would of course have a different confirmation number for each airline:

 

I purchased both flights through Expedia at the same time. I have 2 different E codes

This can be risky and now you know why.

 

Maybe it is absurd to think they would try to book me a flight on Alaska air instead - I tend to think it is no more absurd than asking 2 passengers to accept a 22 hour lay over.

Yes, it is absurd to think Expedia is going to pay the cost to change your flight for your LAX-SEA ticket on Virgin America because the airline apparently had a schedule change. They have no obligation to do so. And VX only has a few flights a day for this routing. Yo

 

If you indeed have two separate tickets, you should have the option, because of this flight cancellation, if that's what it really is, to cancel your Virgin America ticket and receive a full refund.

 

From VX's Contract of Carriage:

In the event the refund is required because of Virgin America's failure to operate on schedule or refusal to transport, the following amounts will be offered to Guests for travel credit or refund:

 

If the reservation is totally unused, the full amount will be credited or refunded (with no service charge or refund penalty); or

If the reservation is partially used, the applicable fare for the unused segment/s will be credited or refunded.

 

You do have rights when your flight is cancelled, even with nonrefundable tickets. You could then purchase a ticket directly with Alaska Air for the flight you want.

Edited July 7, 2014 by 6rugrats

[Globaliser]

Difficult to understand from information given, but appears OP has two separate tickets:

I've had a play on Expedia and other tools, and it looks like the OP could well have bought these in a single transaction, ending up with a single ticket.

 

There's a published SQ one-way fare from TYO to SEA that includes travel on VX from LAX to SEA. SQ prices this at about the price as Expedia offers this itinerary (although funnily enough ITA refuses to price it).

 

The fare rules suggest that this is also valid for travel on AS from LAX to SEA, but ITA won't price it as a through fare and SQ doesn't show AS flights at all.

 

All very odd.

[CanWeGoYet?]

It's hard to know what options you might have, or reasonably expect to be able to ask for, without knowing the details of your travel plans.

 

My guess is that after you disembark in Yokohama on Sunday 28 September, you're staying on until Saturday 4 October. You were hoping to connect from SQ12 arriving at LAX at 1330 onto VX795 departing LAX at 1650, but that's now been cancelled and the next VX to SEA is on Sunday 5 October at 1135.

 

When you say that you bought both flights through Expedia "at the same time", was that in one transaction or two? Did you ask Expedia for a single trip from Tokyo to Seattle, or did you buy one flight and then buy the second flight in a separate transaction immediately afterwards? I'm not sure what you mean when you say you have "2 different E codes" - even if you had a single ticket covering all of Tokyo-LAX-Seattle, you'd still probably have at least three different booking references (one for Expedia and at least one for each of the two airlines).

 

If my guess as to your travel is correct, I'd be wanting to change the Virgin America to a different LAX-SEA flight. Whether you have to badger Virgin for a refund or whether you should be badgering Expedia to make things right for you depends on whether you have one ticket or two.

 

Thanks - when I purchased the flights, the 2 legs came up as a way to fly from Tokyo to Seattle. I purchased both flights at the same time. I meant the different flights had different e codes.

Edited July 7, 2014 by CanWeGoYet?

[frugaltravel]

Thanks - when I purchased the flights, the 2 legs came up as a way to fly from Tokyo to Seattle. I purchased both flights at the same time. I meant the different flights had different e codes.

 

Still not enough information :confused:

 

Best is to look at the e-ticket receipt and look for ticket numbers and the Fare Basis and Fare Calculation. You probably have only one e-ticket number that starts with 618, but that also is not enough information in itself to know if your fare is calculated as a "through fare" to Seattle or if the fare is broken up in LAX. Having the Fare Basis and/or the Fare Calculation (which includes X/ and/or O along with 3 letter airport codes) is the only sure way to assist you.

[Globaliser]

I meant the different flights had different e codes.

That still doesn't mean very much. I'm not sure what you mean by "e codes", but if you mean the two booking references that allows you to retrieve the booking from the respective airline's websites, that tells you nothing about whether you have one ticket or two.

Best is to look at the e-ticket receipt and look for ticket numbers and the Fare Basis and Fare Calculation. You probably have only one e-ticket number that starts with 618, but that also is not enough information in itself to know if your fare is calculated as a "through fare" to Seattle or if the fare is broken up in LAX. Having the Fare Basis and/or the Fare Calculation (which includes X/ and/or O along with 3 letter airport codes) is the only sure way to assist you.

Or please, please, please - at least tell us the amount of the base fare and of the additional taxes, fees and charges.

 

And tell us whether my guess about what's happened is correct or not.

[frugaltravel]

Or please, please, please - at least tell us the amount of the base fare and of the additional taxes, fees and charges.

 

The amount of the fare won't tell us a thing about whether it is one ticket or two. Plus, if it is a consolidator fare of some sort, the "base fare" will probably show as IT or BT rather than an actual number.

 

So, OP, giving us the fare basis or fare calculation would be way more helpful than the amount you paid.

Edited July 7, 2014 by frugaltravel

[Globaliser]

The amount of the fare won't tell us a thing about whether it is one ticket or two. Plus, if it is a consolidator fare of some sort, the "base fare" will probably show as IT or BT rather than an actual number.

 

So, OP, giving us the fare basis or fare calculation would be way more helpful than the amount you paid.

I agree, but the base fare would be a start.

 

In this case, the lowest base fares for TYO-LAX on SQ and LAX-SEA on VX, when added together, are higher than the base fare for the SQ through fare TYO-SEA that includes the domestic sector on VX. As it happens, the latter base fare is almost exactly what Expedia is quoting (and the variance could well be due entirely to currency conversion differences, seeing as the TYO-SEA fare is set in JPY, and a USD amount will be a conversion from that).

 

If it's a single ticket on a BT or IT basis, then that's also useful to know (and there may not be be a useful fare basis code for us to work from).

[CanWeGoYet?]

Fare basis - fare calculation - this will likely come as no surprise given my questions & posts so far but I have no idea. Economy / coach class E for the singapore airlines flight, Economy /coach S for the Virgin America.

 

I'd tell you all the info but I'm not sure where to find it. The fare is listed as $509 for each of us, with taxes & fees $394 and a booking fee of $14.

 

The airline ticket number does start with 166. Sorry, not trying to hold back the info, I just don't know what code gives the needed info or where to look for it.

 

I was told an Expedia rep would call me to work this out today by 5, but no one has so I'm on hold now after calling them. I logged into my account, it says my reservation is confirmed & I don't need to do anything. But I know that isn't right, Virgin America rep last night confirmed their airline did reschedule the flight I had booked.

[FlyerTalker]

Fare basis - fare calculation - this will likely come as no surprise given my questions & posts so far but I have no idea. Economy / coach class E for the singapore airlines flight, Economy /coach S for the Virgin America.

 

The fare basis would be a multi-character code. Some possibilities are: EOWJP8 or ERJP8, or something along those lines. It would start with E.

 

The fare calculation would look something like this (this was for a recent trip from SEA to LGA):

SEA DL X/ATL DL NYC 243.72LA14A0UP USD243.72END ZP SEAATL XF SEA4.5ATL4.5

 

Yours would have NRT in place of the bolded SEA and SQ instead of DL. It would have different codes and prices, but the format would be like this. Those letters after the dollar amount are the fare code. Copying the full lines would help greatly to decipher just what you actually bought.

[CanWeGoYet?]

There are no codes beginning with an E that I can see on my itinerary. I have expedia itinerary numbers, expedia booking numbers, and Singapore Airlines and Virgin America confirmation codes.

 

I have since been told by Expedia reps that Singapore Air issued the connecting flight with Virgin America, and if I want to try to get that leg of the flight refunded they need to give permission. Have been on hold twice today with reps from Expedia, calls dropped & no one called back. Called back & asked to speak to a supervisor tonight, who called Singapore Air but can't get an answer because the sales dept. is closed.

 

I asked him what the fare basis was for the flights. He says $509 fare base and $197 tax each ticket.

[Globaliser]

Fare basis - fare calculation - this will likely come as no surprise given my questions & posts so far but I have no idea. Economy / coach class E for the singapore airlines flight, Economy /coach S for the Virgin America.

 

I'd tell you all the info but I'm not sure where to find it. The fare is listed as $509 for each of us, with taxes & fees $394 and a booking fee of $14.

I have since been told by Expedia reps that Singapore Air issued the connecting flight with Virgin America, and if I want to try to get that leg of the flight refunded they need to give permission. Have been on hold twice today with reps from Expedia, calls dropped & no one called back. Called back & asked to speak to a supervisor tonight, who called Singapore Air but can't get an answer because the sales dept. is closed.

Thanks. This is all consistent with (but does not prove) that you've got a ticket using SQ's one-way fare from Tokyo to Seattle, fare basis EOWJP8. The base fare is JPY 51800, which is listed today as converting to USD 506 (but it looks like ITA's conversion rate might give a USD equivalent of something like USD 511 if it could be persuaded to quote using this fare, which it still refuses to do, possibly because this is a constructed fare).

 

The fare rules include this:-

FLIGHT APPLICATION
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
   ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
       SQ FLIGHTS 0011 THROUGH 0012
       ANY VX FLIGHT OPERATED BY VX
       [b]AS FLIGHTS 0001 THROUGH 0999[/b]
       AS FLIGHTS 2000 THROUGH 2999
       AS FLIGHTS 3248 THROUGH 3299
       AS FLIGHTS 3380 THROUGH 3499
       JL FLIGHTS 0001 THROUGH 4999
       JL FLIGHTS 6000 THROUGH 6099
       JL FLIGHTS 6400 THROUGH 9999
       NH FLIGHTS 0001 THROUGH 3110
       NH FLIGHTS 3179 THROUGH 3504
       NH FLIGHTS 4800 THROUGH 5649.

The bolded line seems to me to make it possible (but I don't put it any higher than that) that the same fare is valid for an SQ-AS connection to get you to SEA on the same day.

 

You might therefore want to see whether you can get Expedia and SQ to work together to rebook you onto an AS flight on the same day (Saturday 4 October?) using the same fare.

[TruckerDave]

This might be a dumb question, but why didn't you just book the direct NRT-SEA flight on ANA (All Nippon Airways)? I see Delta also has a direct flight as well.

[Zach1213]

This might be a dumb question, but why didn't you just book the direct NRT-SEA flight on ANA (All Nippon Airways)? I see Delta also has a direct flight as well.

 

They both have nonstop flights. ANA's is on the 787 as well, which is a lovely aircraft.

[CanWeGoYet?]

I had read good things about transpacific flights on Singapore Air, that was why I picked this airline despite having a nonstop flight instead of going through Choice Air for a non-stop United flight. I don't recall if I saw a flight come up on search with ANA, or it may have been a lot more expensive than the other choices I was considering. Hindsight 20/20. I was going to just be done with it, and just buy new tickets on Alaska Air from LAX to Seattle. But then I'm told that would create 2 tickets, and I would have to collect luggage at LAX, go through customs & then get our bags on to the new Alaska flight. This is more than I want to even think about after a 10 hour flight from Tokyo. So I will continue to try to work something out through expedia. I really want Singapore Air to be the ones putting through the luggage on to the next flight & not have to mess with it myself.

[FlyerTalker]

I had read good things about transpacific flights on Singapore Air, that was why I picked this airline despite having a nonstop flight instead of going through Choice Air for a non-stop United flight. I don't recall if I saw a flight come up on search with ANA, or it may have been a lot more expensive than the other choices I was considering. Hindsight 20/20. I was going to just be done with it, and just buy new tickets on Alaska Air from LAX to Seattle. But then I'm told that would create 2 tickets, and I would have to collect luggage at LAX, go through customs & then get our bags on to the new Alaska flight. This is more than I want to even think about after a 10 hour flight from Tokyo. So I will continue to try to work something out through expedia. I really want Singapore Air to be the ones putting through the luggage on to the next flight & not have to mess with it myself.

Brrruppp. So sorry to burst your bubble, but you are going to have to ""mess with it". At LAX, you are going to have to retrieve your luggage and go through US Customs after you have passed through immigration. Now, I don't know if AS or VX have agents to take your bag for a redrop at TBIT. If they were through checked, you would still need to take them to a baggage drop location outside customs where hopefully they would get processed to your next flight. And if they were not through checked, then you would need to take them yourself to either VX (in T3) or AS (in T6).

 

If you expected to leave your bags in Tokyo and see them again without effort in SEA, you were very mistaken. OTOH, that would have happened with either of the non-stops between NRT and SEA. Or even flying on Korean or Asiana from NRT to SEA via SEL. But through LAX - that's your first port of entry into the USA and that's where you will do customs and immigration.

[CanWeGoYet?]

Not what I wanted to hear, but the info helps so thank you sincerely Flyertalker, as well as the others who have responded to my thread.

 

This is info that expedia could not give me, as they have been saying my bags would be checked through if I could get the flights on one ticket. Even the alaska air rep was saying this last night.

 

So I can't see much reason to keep struggling to get it all on one ticket - especially since I was on hold for 3 hours again today with expedia while they call Singapore air or their help desk or transfer me to a supervisor, I get cut off again & with no call back.

 

I don't see myself ever booking through expedia again.

[CanWeGoYet?]

Booking through Celebrity choice air - nonstop flight through United but it's an ANA flight. Cheaper than my flights with expedia, will cancel my flights with them. It will cost me nearly $200, but it's worth it to have a nonstop flight and be done with trying to deal with expedia.

 

I didn't know the United flight was only managed by United but actually an ANA flight. This was a royal pain that actually worked out for the best, better than my original plan. Thanks again to all for your help.

[FlyerTalker]

Now, let's be clear. Your schlepping may be as little as retrieving your bags from the carousel, loading on a luggage cart, lining up and walking through a customs checkpoint (where you may or may not be stopped for inspection), and then passing on to a drop-off point where you give your bags back for onward processing. Or it may be more involved. But it will be more than just a simple domestic connection where your bags move and you never see them. I do not know SQ to AS/VX procedures at the TBIT at LAX, so I can only give the extremes from one end of the possibility spectrum to the other.

 

I do know that I have had to take full possession of my bags on previous overnight connections to a morning AS flight out of LAX; taking them to the hotel and then back in the morning. This was several years ago, so things may be different now. Whether this might apply to a VX overnight I cannot authoritively say.

 

One thing to remember is that through checked bags merely means that the bags have been tagged to the end destination and entered as such in the computer system. You still need to handle them for enroute customs and sometimes for overnights. I did the retrieval schtick at MEX on a forced Aeromexico overnight, even with through tagged bags. OTOH, you usually don't need to do this with SQ - though at SIN, where systems are different. As always YMMV - I wish there was a more comprehensive, single answer.

 

Personally, I'd rather be aware of the worst case and be pleasantly surprised if it works out better. But that's my personality, and it sometimes spills over into my commentary.

 

Again, much depends on whether this is one ticket or two, whether SQ would through check on two tickets, and if VX/AS will hold bags overnight. Good luck.

[Globaliser]

Cheaper than my flights with expedia, will cancel my flights with them. It will cost me nearly $200, but it's worth it to have a nonstop flight and be done with trying to deal with expedia.

In your shoes, I would push for a fee-free cancellation. I would certainly be aiming to cost Expedia more than $200 in hassle whilst doing so, even if I was ultimately unsuccessful. Even though the schedule change is not Expedia's fault, Expedia seems to have singularly failed to explain to you why it is not possible to rebook the connection on a same-day AS flight (whether the explanation stems from it being a one-ticket journey or a two-ticket journey or from some other reason). Edited July 9, 2014 by Globaliser

[Twickenham]

This is info that expedia could not give me, as they have been saying my bags would be checked through if I could get the flights on one ticket. Even the alaska air rep was saying this last night.

 

Well, as Flyertalker so aptly explained, they are right. It's just that they're not fully explaining the procedure.

 

So I can't see much reason to keep struggling to get it all on one ticket

 

Because keeping it on one ticket protects you in case of a delay of your first flight. If they're one ticket, the airline has to rebook you on another flight if you miss the connection, but if they're 2 completely separate tickets, then they have no such obligation, you are considered a no-show for the 2nd flight, and you potentially could have to buy a new ticket to complete your journey.

 

I don't see myself ever booking through expedia again.

 

This is not a personal criticism, 'cause many people do, but I just cannot fathom why one would book air with any OTA. Book directly with the airline, cut out the middle man, then when these issues crop up it's much easier to regulate.

 

I agree with Globaliser - I'd be pushing for them to cancel for free. Well, actually I'd be booking a LAX hotel for my layover, but then I'm one of those crazy people that books 22-hour connections on purpose...:D