Furious with Holland America!

[Cruzin Terri]

Rochelle,

Maybe it is time to take this a step further.

 

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Hoe this helps.

Terri

[Donray]

It's plain to see you're a guy who hasn't bought a good new bra lately. $38 wouldn't even begin to pay for it. ;)

 

So, how much would you pay for a used bra? $50.00?

[Sam.Seattle]

...In my opinion you had a reasonable expectation, regardless of fine print on any HAL documents, that once you handed your luggage to a steward that you would find it again at the dock...QUOTE]

 

Holland America has nothing to do with luggage once it exits the ship. The people who take it off the ship and those that place it in the terminal are port employees, not Holland America employees. There is no evidence that it went missing on the ship. If it did, it would likely have been located by now.

 

(I do know an odd story of a piece of luggage that went missing for two weeks on a ship, but it was "found". It turned out to have been in another passenger's cabin for the whole time. That passenger "found" it when they were packing to disembark.)

Funny.... we were on a cruise where we witnessed 3-single ladies traveling in one cabin. When they were packing, they discovered they had a case that belonged to the man in the next door cabin. It does happen....

Edited July 11, 2014 by Sam.Seattle

[Island Lovers]

First of all, I'd like to say that the OP did nothing wrong and has my utmost sympathy on this case. I would be very upset too! It appears that the "lost" luggage may or may not have even left the ship. The fact that two suitcases from the same cabin both went missing at the same time is very suspicious. I would keep contacting HAL every day for at least six weeks! Document all calls - who you speak with, time, date, save emails, etc. The OP had a right to expect that the luggage would be handled with due care and attention as we are instructed to place our suitcases in the hall the night before disembarkation. This is not meant to present an abnormal situation or problem for the passenger. Yes, accidents happen, and many say that's why we have insurance, etc. However, this is perhaps more of a mystery or something worse rather than simply "lost" luggage. I would want an answer as to what happened even if I never retrieved my belongings.

 

As far as value, $100 is a ridiculous amount for HAL to offer as the suitcase on its own is worth more than that. (Yes, that may be all they legally have to do). It is easy to have $4,000 or more in one suitcase. One has to think of the cost to replace all the clothing, shoes, etc. Most of us don't buy used bras, underwear, shoes or even formal wear. The OP must purchase all these goods to replace the lost items. Many ladies only wear formal items or certain shoes rarely, so "depreciation" isn't like a car.

 

OP, please keep us informed. In the meantime, I hope you've checked with your medical insurance coverage as sometimes there is an inclusion of baggage. Also, I'd suggest checking your homeowner's insurance and CAA if you're a member. Register your case with the port agent and police in the disembarkation port, your travel agency, etc. - anyone who may be able to assist or re-direct your luggage if it is found. I wish you every success on this difficult mission. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

[ellieanne]

As far as value, $100 is a ridiculous amount for HAL to offer as the suitcase on its own is worth more than that. (Yes, that may be all they legally have to do). It is easy to have $4,000 or more in one suitcase. One has to think of the cost to replace all the clothing, shoes, etc. Most of us don't buy used bras, underwear, shoes or even formal wear. The OP must purchase all these goods to replace the lost items. Many ladies only wear formal items or certain shoes rarely, so "depreciation" isn't like a car.

 

Ridiculous or not, $100 is the limit of Holland America's liability for lost, damaged, or delayed luggage according to the cruise contract all passengers accept before boarding the cruise. That's a fact. That's what Holland America will pay absent a court order to the contrary. And based on what's been reported here, I doubt the original poster has enough evidence to prove negligence on the part of Holland America that would allow an award outside the terms of the contract.

 

As for depreciation: everything depreciates and it is the standard used for the value of lost, damaged, or destroyed items. That's also a fact. It may not be fair, and it may not be enough to allow the purchase of a new item to replace the lost, damaged, or destroyed items, but the law is to make the individual who suffered the loss whole. Whole in this instance means that the individual is at the same place financially as they were before the loss occurred. The original poster had a number of bras, panties, among other things in the lost bag. She did not say, but I'm willing to bet none of those things were in new with tags, unworn condition. That means the items in question are subject to depreciation. It's the way the law works. Unless you have replacement value, any insurance will only pay the depreciated value of the lost item. Luggage insurance may pay more than the limits of Holland America's liability, but it will not pay replacement value (unless the items were brand new, never worn, with the tags still attached and the individual has receipts for proof of purchase).

 

It's not fair, but it is the way of the law. And as I said before, these things are very rarely fair in the individual's favor.

Edited July 11, 2014 by ellieanne

[Stratheden]

First of all, I'd like to say that the OP did nothing wrong and has my utmost sympathy on this case. I would be very upset too! It appears that the "lost" luggage may or may not have even left the ship. The fact that two suitcases from the same cabin both went missing at the same time is very suspicious. I would keep contacting HAL every day for at least six weeks! Document all calls - who you speak with, time, date, save emails, etc. The OP had a right to expect that the luggage would be handled with due care and attention as we are instructed to place our suitcases in the hall the night before disembarkation. This is not meant to present an abnormal situation or problem for the passenger. Yes, accidents happen, and many say that's why we have insurance, etc. However, this is perhaps more of a mystery or something worse rather than simply "lost" luggage. I would want an answer as to what happened even if I never retrieved my belongings.

 

As far as value, $100 is a ridiculous amount for HAL to offer as the suitcase on its own is worth more than that. (Yes, that may be all they legally have to do). It is easy to have $4,000 or more in one suitcase. One has to think of the cost to replace all the clothing, shoes, etc. Most of us don't buy used bras, underwear, shoes or even formal wear. The OP must purchase all these goods to replace the lost items. Many ladies only wear formal items or certain shoes rarely, so "depreciation" isn't like a car.

 

OP, please keep us informed. In the meantime, I hope you've checked with your medical insurance coverage as sometimes there is an inclusion of baggage. Also, I'd suggest checking your homeowner's insurance and CAA if you're a member. Register your case with the port agent and police in the disembarkation port, your travel agency, etc. - anyone who may be able to assist or re-direct your luggage if it is found. I wish you every success on this difficult mission. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

 

You really should read the whole thread. She didn't leave her luggage in the hall as instructed. She wheeled it down to the elevator lobby and handed it over to a steward.

[sapper1]

So, how much would you pay for a used bra? $50.00?

 

Well considering a new one that doesn't feel like a torture chamber costs me over a $100 then if it were not too used $50 would be a bargain if I were into buying used undergarments. :)

[Surreyman]

You really should read the whole thread. She didn't leave her luggage in the hall as instructed. She wheeled it down to the elevator lobby and handed it over to a steward.

 

Which seems an odd action from someone who has cruised before.

[mkl55]

Hmmm.. I wonder if it got mixed in with the Luggage Direct bags and is sitting around in an airport. I'm worried about that copy of your passport in your bag. That is a very valuable bit of info just out there somewhere.

[Globaliser]

The initial baggage claim area for international flights is not accessible to the general public; it's not even in the main terminal. International passengers do have the option to put their baggage on a carousel that will take their luggage to the regular baggage claim area once they have cleared immigration and customs; maybe it is that second step that you remember.

And there's a very good reason why the baggage carousels for true international arrivals are not open to the public: the baggage must clear customs after it has been claimed by the passenger, and the general public are not allowed into any area before customs clearance. In addition, if international arriving baggage could be taken from a baggage carousel before customs clearance, then it would be open season for smugglers who'd just "steal" the luggage belonging to the mule.

 

So what chrispb remembers at Orlando must be the second baggage reclaim, which is indistinguishable from a domestic arrival carousel. It used to be the case that there was no alternative to handing your bags back and then collecting them a second time at a domestic carousel. This was in the days when you had to clear security again after clearing customs, in order to get back from the satellite to the main terminal to collect your bags for the second time. The option described in the current webpage is more recent, because the relevant shuttle now operates outside the security border so you don't need to clear security again.

 

At Miami, international arrivals baggage carousels (which are pre-customs) are not accessible to the general public.

[debijaynes]

In Orlando last November the baggage claim was definitely not open to the outside area. Coming from Frankfurt we claimed our bags and then went thru Customs. Maybe for US travel it's open, but not foreign!

[sapper1]

International flights to Fort Lauderdale from major Canadian airports are true international flights but we do NOT pick up our bags in the customs area. They go to the general arrivals area which is wide open. Our baggage is screened and cleared by US officials at the Canadian airport of departure. Passengers are also screened so when we land in Fort Lauderdale no further security measures are necessary.

 

We don't even have to claim our bags anymore when connecting in Toronto or Montreal and wheel them through customs. The customs officer has a picture of your bags on his screen and will sometimes ask you to identify them. If they want to inspect them further they can call them up and have you open them.

[Globaliser]

International flights to Fort Lauderdale from major Canadian airports are true international flights but we do NOT pick up our bags in the customs area. They go to the general arrivals area which is wide open. Our baggage is screened and cleared by US officials at the Canadian airport of departure. Passengers are also screened so when we land in Fort Lauderdale no further security measures are necessary.

These are the reasons why pre-cleared flights from major Canadian airports (and other airports where US pre-screening operates) are not true international flights. Because passengers and bags have already cleared US immigration and customs before the flight departs, they then operate indistinguishably from US domestic flights - including arriving passengers intermingling with departing passengers in the concourse after disembarkation at the US port, and baggage delivery directly to a domestic baggage carousel.

[cruz chic]

International flights to Fort Lauderdale from major Canadian airports are true international flights but we do NOT pick up our bags in the customs area. They go to the general arrivals area which is wide open. Our baggage is screened and cleared by US officials at the Canadian airport of departure. Passengers are also screened so when we land in Fort Lauderdale no further security measures are necessary.

 

We don't even have to claim our bags anymore when connecting in Toronto or Montreal and wheel them through customs. The customs officer has a picture of your bags on his screen and will sometimes ask you to identify them. If they want to inspect them further they can call them up and have you open them.

 

Not claiming your bags to go through customs is only true when you are flying air canada. If you use westjet , you will still need to claim them. This was true as of April 2014. Another reason to not use westjet.

[Fouremco]

Not claiming your bags to go through customs is only true when you are flying air canada. If you use westjet , you will still need to claim them. This was true as of April 2014. Another reason to not use westjet.

Not so! I always fly WestJet when possible and have never had an issue since Ottawa was added to the list of Canadian cities with pre-clearance facilities. The pre-clearance process applies to passengers of all airlines flying to the US from those airports offering this service. As a result, I'm very familiar with the domestic arrivals in Fort Lauderdale!

[Lizzie68]

Not so! I always fly WestJet when possible and have never had an issue since Ottawa was added to the list of Canadian cities with pre-clearance facilities. The pre-clearance process applies to passengers of all airlines flying to the US from those airports offering this service. As a result, I'm very familiar with the domestic arrivals in Fort Lauderdale!

 

That must be a very recent change, because last time we connected through TO (a couple of months ago) we opted to use Air Canada because Westjet required that you collect your baggage and check it through again whereas with AC it was checked through.

[Lizzie68]

Which seems an odd action from someone who has cruised before.

 

Why? I've collected my bags from the elevator area on embarkation to help out the stewards, and they appreciated it, so likewise in reverse I would imagine while they are heading up and down the hallways hauling baggage to the elevator lobby. And she did say that the deadline was approaching, or maybe past, for having the bags outside your door.

[Fouremco]

That must be a very recent change, because last time we connected through TO (a couple of months ago) we opted to use Air Canada because Westjet required that you collect your baggage and check it through again whereas with AC it was checked through.

Nothing new, but I think that the difference is that I'm take a direct flight from Ottawa to my US destinations, whereas you are taking a connecting flight through a Canadian city. Nevertheless, assuming you go through the US pre-clearance process, when you do get to your final destination, you will go to domestic arrivals and pick up your luggage without going through customs.

[Surreyman]

And she did say that the deadline was approaching, or maybe past, for having the bags outside your door.

 

No she didn't say that, there was quite a time to go - she did say had to get to the casino by 11.

[WpgCruise]

Nothing new, but I think that the difference is that I'm take a direct flight from Ottawa to my US destinations, whereas you are taking a connecting flight through a Canadian city. Nevertheless, assuming you go through the US pre-clearance process, when you do get to your final destination, you will go to domestic arrivals and pick up your luggage without going through customs.

 

Our experience on connecting flights is we pre-clear U.S. Customs and Immigration at the last airport before leaving Canada. For example if we connect in Toronto, for a flight to Fort Lauderdale, we pre-clear in Toronto, if we have a direct flight from Winnipeg, we pre-clear in Winnipeg.

 

And this has been the procedure when using WestJet, Air Canada, United, American and a whole bunch of carriers no longer around, such as Wardair and Canada 3000. (Yep, I'm old):)

[Copper10-8]

Our experience on connecting flights is we pre-clear U.S. Customs and Immigration at the last airport before leaving Canada. For example if we connect in Toronto, for a flight to Fort Lauderdale, we pre-clear in Toronto, if we have a direct flight from Winnipeg, we pre-clear in Winnipeg.

 

And this has been the procedure when using WestJet, Air Canada, United, American and a whole bunch of carriers no longer around, such as Wardair and Canada 3000. (Yep, I'm old):)

 

How' bout those nice orange colored jets of CP Air? ;)

[iancal]

I loved that CPAir/CAI tin. Logged many, many business miles on them-domestic and international. Now that was service...but it so much more expensive when compared to todays cost in inflation adjusted dollars. And the frequent flyer program/service was second to none. Guess that is why they went bust!

Edited July 11, 2014 by iancal

[cruz chic]

Our experience on connecting flights is we pre-clear U.S. Customs and Immigration at the last airport before leaving Canada. For example if we connect in Toronto, for a flight to Fort Lauderdale, we pre-clear in Toronto, if we have a direct flight from Winnipeg, we pre-clear in Winnipeg.

 

And this has been the procedure when using WestJet, Air Canada, United, American and a whole bunch of carriers no longer around, such as Wardair and Canada 3000. (Yep, I'm old):)

 

Yes of course. This is correct.

[cruz chic]

Not so! I always fly WestJet when possible and have never had an issue since Ottawa was added to the list of Canadian cities with pre-clearance facilities. The pre-clearance process applies to passengers of all airlines flying to the US from those airports offering this service. As a result, I'm very familiar with the domestic arrivals in Fort Lauderdale!

 

I assume you would be leaving from Ottawa going directly to Fort Lauderdale so how would this even apply?

[chrispb]

And there's a very good reason why the baggage carousels for true international arrivals are not open to the public: the baggage must clear customs after it has been claimed by the passenger, and the general public are not allowed into any area before customs clearance. In addition, if international arriving baggage could be taken from a baggage carousel before customs clearance, then it would be open season for smugglers who'd just "steal" the luggage belonging to the mule.

 

So what chrispb remembers at Orlando must be the second baggage reclaim, which is indistinguishable from a domestic arrival carousel. It used to be the case that there was no alternative to handing your bags back and then collecting them a second time at a domestic carousel. This was in the days when you had to clear security again after clearing customs, in order to get back from the satellite to the main terminal to collect your bags for the second time. The option described in the current webpage is more recent, because the relevant shuttle now operates outside the security border so you don't need to clear security again.

 

At Miami, international arrivals baggage carousels (which are pre-customs) are not accessible to the general public.

 

You may be right. I cleared customs etc in Atlanta (picking up my luggage and handing it back) so my arrival was domestic. My family arrived just before me on their direct international flight, had already picked up their luggage but were in the area of my carousel when we met up. Son-in-law had already gone downstairs to sort out the car.

 

Thinking about it now, they must have cleared customs and immigration before we met up because they were all done by the time of my arrival.

 

This was around 7 yrs ago so things may have changed yet again.