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Understanding how NCL fares are set, and why they go up and down


pokerpro5
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It is highly likely you can do a lot better in the 14-55 day range.

 

Try calling 76 days out and asking how many insides are still available. If it's a lot, you can feel safe to cancel and start price watching on day 55.

 

There is no way they will abruptly sell out of a lot of inside cabins between 75-55 days.

 

Sept 19 is also a generally unpopular date to cruise Alaska.

 

Thank you so much for the tips! I'm going to take your advice and give them a buzz right before The Final Countdown.

 

The unpopular date just may work to our favor. For us, it's perfect: brand new set of vacation days and a crystal-clear schedule.

 

Thanks again!

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Thank you so much for the tips! I'm going to take your advice and give them a buzz right before The Final Countdown.

 

The unpopular date just may work to our favor. For us, it's perfect: brand new set of vacation days and a crystal-clear schedule.

 

Thanks again!

 

Good idea.

 

When you call, claim that you are considering a second cabin, and are curious how many insides are left. If they try to claim that they can't see that, ask for a supervisor/manager.

 

What you're looking to find out is if they are close to selling out, or if there are plenty left.

 

You also might want to go on ncl.com and go through the booking motions (without entering your info or credit card), and see how many insides (and balconies) are offered.

 

However, beware that ncl.com does NOT show all available cabins, or anywhere near it. It just grabs a handful of them. But if all inside cabin categories are still available for booking, you can feel pretty confident.

 

FYI, as I said in the OP here, I got a second room (inside cabin, deck 9) at $349+tax on a 7-day Alaska cruise during peak season in early August. It was like $649-$699, and then abruptly dropped on day 48 prior to sailing.

Edited by pokerpro5
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One other thing:

 

Having just cruised Alaska, I can tell you that a balcony is FAR superior to an inside.

 

Like, no comparison.

 

I've cruised inside before on other itineraries before and was okay with it. But Alaska is a different story. This cruise is more about scenery and less about activities or onboard outdoor fun.

 

It's MUCH nicer to see Glacier Bay from your own balcony, rather than struggling for a view in the cold among a ton of people in the public area.

 

It's MUCH nicer to relax on your balcony during the scenic parts of the cruise, than, again, being stuck in the public area peeping for a view.

 

If you are willing to spend $799/pp, you can likely get a balcony for that rate (or maybe cheaper) once the prices fall.

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One other thing:

 

Having just cruised Alaska, I can tell you that a balcony is FAR superior to an inside.

 

Like, no comparison.

 

I've cruised inside before on other itineraries before and was okay with it. But Alaska is a different story. This cruise is more about scenery and less about activities or onboard outdoor fun.

 

It's MUCH nicer to see Glacier Bay from your own balcony, rather than struggling for a view in the cold among a ton of people in the public area.

 

It's MUCH nicer to relax on your balcony during the scenic parts of the cruise, than, again, being stuck in the public area peeping for a view.

 

If you are willing to spend $799/pp, you can likely get a balcony for that rate (or maybe cheaper) once the prices fall.

 

I seriously cannot thank you enough for all of your help!!! My end goal is to get DH a balcony for the exact reasons you've stated. He genuinely doesn't care what room he ends up in but I want him to have the absolute trip of a lifetime.

 

I'm gonna keep an eye on prices & see the best I can do. At the end of the day, if I can get a balcony for $799 or close to that, I will be one happy camper!

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I saw a thread today where a poster claimed that NCL lowered their fares when a promotion was over, while others chimed in and claimed that their cruise's fares either had not gone down or in fact had gone up.

 

I have also had debates here with people regarding the best time to book.

 

So when is the best time to book, and why do the fares jump up and down?

 

The short answer: It depends.

 

 

Computer Predictive Modeling

 

It is important to understand that there is not a human being watching the sales of your cruise and manually changing the prices. It is mostly done by computer, with the human element simply setting guidelines or coming up with promotions.

 

Initially each stateroom is assigned a "brochure price", or basically the highest rate that anyone will likely pay. It is very rare for the brochure price to be exceeded, and this only happens during super-high-demand cruises.

 

From there, the computer has a model of how the ship and itinerary have sold historically, and if not, it usually has something comparable. It also takes into account how cruises in general have been selling recently for other itineraries. These factors are then used to price each room.

 

The computer uses both historical averages and data fed by humans regarding what it expects to sell by certain dates. So if it's expected that 30% of inside cabins should have sold by 270 days out (a hypothetical I'm making up), then it will set prices according to what prices accomplished this last year, and perhaps adjust it up or down in accordance with current market conditions.

 

If the ship sells unexpectedly well, and is ahead of last year's sales, the price will automatically go up. If the sales fall behind prior years, the price will be lowered until it either catches up or it hits a pre-final-payment baseline. More on that shortly.

 

 

 

The Suite Exception

 

The above is done for the common room types -- balconies, oceanviews, and insides. Mini-suites are less plentiful, and thus their pricing is held more steady. This is why sometimes there is a huge price gap between balconies and mini suites, despite their relative similarity. Balconies will fall far below brochure price on many cruises, while mini suites will often see a much lesser reduction.

 

Full suites typically sell well, and there are not many of them. It is assumed that suites will sell out at a fairly constant price, so the sales-goal predictive pricing model is not exercised on them. Furthermore, the suites are considered luxury products, and the cruise line does not want to degrade their perceived value by highly discounting them at any point.

 

What if there are still unpurchased suites as it gets closer to sail time? Will they sail empty? No.

 

That's where the "upgrade fairy" comes in. Sales reps are assigned the task to move existing passengers into unsold suites, for an upgrade fee. If it is getting too close to cruise time, and suites remain unsold, cruisers currently in mini suites (or ones who paid a high price for their balcony room) will be called and asked if they wish to upgrade to a full suite, for what appears to be a reasonable cost. They will also attempt to upgrade lower-tier suite passengers to unsold higher-tier suites in the same fashion, knowing that it's easier to move the lower tier suites either through direct booking or upgrades.

 

This model allows the suites to always sail full, while keeping the price fairly constant.

 

In fact, if you plan to sail in a suite, booking early is the right way to go. You get your room locked in, and you are protected against possible price increases. And of course, if the price drops, you can adjust it provided that it's within the cancellation period.

 

However, if you are not in a suite, and if your itinerary is not either rare or popular, booking early is often a mistake.

 

 

 

The Pre-Final-Payment Baseline

 

For insides, oceanviews, and balconies, the computer keeps dropping the price until the proper number of cabins are sold in relation to the amount of time left before sailing.

 

So if the early bookings are slow, does that mean you will find an extreme bargain?

 

No. The reason you won't is because of the pre-final-payment baseline.

 

You are allowed to cancel for a full refund prior to final payment date (75 days out). People who notice price reductions can easily call up, cancel, and rebook at the new price. Knowing that this can and will occur, NCL will usually just adjust your price down to current levels if you notice a drop prior to the final payment date.

 

Given the customer's ability to re-rate the stateroom he purchased earlier, NCL is careful NOT to over-discount these rooms prior to final payment date. This would result in a large number of people re-pricing their rooms to super-discount fares, and it would cost NCL a fortune.

 

Instead, NCL sets a pre-final-payment baseline rate for each category. If it's before final payment date, the rate will never drop below this baseline, no matter how poorly the cruise sells.

 

This is why you will never find spectacular bargains prior to final payment date. The only way you will get a "bargain" early is if you book, the ship sells unexpectedly well, and the price shoots up. But that's different matter entirely, and fairly uncommon for most mainstream US-departing itineraries.

 

The massive price drops occur AFTER final payment date -- when customers' hands are tied, and they can no longer re-rate their cruise fares.

 

Does this mean that you will find major bargains at the 74 day mark? No. Read on.

 

 

 

Drivin' (A Hard Bargain) at 55

 

NCL allows you to cancel your cruise from 56-75 days out and receive a full refund minus your deposit. As the deposits are typically not very large, this penalty is not very high, and therefore NCL does NOT dump rooms for very cheap during this period. Otherwise, it would be worth it for most cruisers to cancel and rebook at the bargain rates, and again this would cost NCL a fortune.

 

Instead, even on poorly-selling cruises, NCL will wait until at least 55 days prior to sailing to start deeply discounting rooms. Why 55 days? At that point, the cancellation penalty is 50%, which makes it prohibitively expensive for customers to cancel and rebook at a cheaper rate.

 

The reductions do not always happen at the 55 day mark. That's just the first time you will possibly see a significant reduction in price. Depending upon how your cruise is selling, you may not see the massive reduction until as late as 14 days before sailing, but it's wise to start looking at the 55 day mark.

 

As a reference point, I just took an 1-way Vacouver-Anchorage cruise this summer. They dumped rooms at bargain rates 48 days before sail date. I grabbed a bargain room, and then the price slowly creeped back up after enough bargain rooms were grabbed. I got mine at the exact low point. It doesn't always work out this well (sometimes they fall even lower), but you need to use your best judgment if you're seeing the bottom price.

 

Will this dumping always occur? No. If the cruise is selling well, they have no need to dump rooms, and therefore you will never see super-bargain fares. However, as I said, most sailings DO have insides/oceanviews/balconies dumped at some point between the 14-55 day mark.

 

 

 

Determining When It Has Bottomed Out

 

It is important to check the NCL website for prices starting from the 55th day prior to sailing. However, if you do see a sharp reduction, how do you know it won't drop even more?

 

You rarely know for sure, but you can take a few steps to help determine this.

 

First off, you're looking for a HUGE sudden reduction in price. If it drops $50, don't get excited. We are talking about hundreds of dollars per person here. If you don't see that, keep waiting.

 

Sometimes the price drop will be huge but not sudden. For example, if you see four successive drops of $50 each, totaling $200, there's a good chance that you have found a great deal.

 

Second, you need to figure out the NCF (non-commissioned fare) part of each price. You can do this by simply calling NCL, asking for the current fare for the room you're interested in, and then asking, "And what portion of that is the non-comissioned fare?" They will tell you, and that amount is constant for ALL stateroom types, regardless of price. The NCF will also not change once it's established for a particular sailing, so you can ask this early on if you want.

 

So let's say they tell you that the NCF is $199 for this itinerary.

 

The price will absolutely, positively, NEVER fall below the NCF. So if you see a price for $249 for an inside stateroom, you should grab it, because it's just $50 over NCF.

 

Keep in mind that it is VERY RARE that they will sell a room for NCF only. Even the greatest bargain inside cabins tend to be at least $50 over NCF. I paid $104 over NCF for my second cabin. I did see some going for $54 over NCF, but I chose to pay an extra $50 to get a location close to my first stateroom.

 

So if you're going for an inside, you want to look for something no more than $150 over NCF, and preferably $50-$100 over NCF.

 

What about oceanviews and balconies? That's a bit harder, as they will never approach NCF. That one you'll have to just eyeball and go with your gut. If you see abrupt reductions of $250 or more on those rooms, you're pretty safe booking and knowing you got the best (or near the best) price possible.

 

Often it's best to strike while the iron is hot when you see massive, abrupt reductions. This is because the public will jump on these bargain rooms, and once those are sold, the computer will no longer be in panic mode, and the prices will creep back up.

 

What about super-super-last-minute rooms?

 

Yes, you can occasionally get bargains there, but it's not necessary to do this, and often waiting too long can backfire.

 

The NCL computer attempts to sell out almost the entire ship by 14 days prior to sail date. It keeps adjusting the prices around prior to that in order to assure this happens. Sometimes some cabins still won't sell, at which point you will still find amazing bargains. It is considered a disaster if a room sails empty, so the computer tries very hard to fill all rooms. However, the price will NEVER drop below NCF (and never below pre-assigned minimums for oceanviews and balconies), so sometimes a few rooms do sail empty.

 

However, given the focus upon filling the ship before 14 days prior to sailing, usually the best deals are already gone before then. It is best to deal shop starting at 55 days prior to sailing, and if you haven't seen a reduction by the 14 day mark, it is unlikely you will see one for that sailing.

 

 

 

The Book Extra People And Cancel Trick

 

One little-known pricing feature on NCL allows you to cancel extra people out of your stateroom for a full refund if you're 14 or more days away from sailing.

 

So if you have a family of 4, don't settle for one room and pay the expensive third and fourth person surcharge.

 

Even if you don't want to play the 14-55 day game of chicken described above, you can still book all 4 people in one room (whenever you feel comfortable doing so), and then keep price-watching starting from day 55 for a possible second room.

 

When you see inside cabins being dumped for near NCF, call NCL, cancel the extra two people out of your room, and book them their own inside cabin!

 

There will be no penalty for this (if it's 14 days or more away), and you will often get a second room for CHEAPER than adding third and fourth people to your existing room. Sailing with 2 kids under 18? No problem. Just assign one adult to each room. NCL does not care where you actually choose to sleep once onboard (this has been verified countless times here).

 

 

 

What About My Flight?

 

Many people feel uncomfortable waiting until 14-55 days out (especially if it's less than 30) to buy their airline tickets. After all, it is well known that airlines raise their prices as it gets close to the travel date.

 

As insides/oceanviews/balconies rarely sell out until VERY close to cruise time, you are really not risking anything. Go ahead and book your flights as if you're sure you're taking the cruise, even if you have not booked the cruise yet. You WILL get a room onboard of the type you desire (provided it's a balcony/oceanview/inside), it's just a matter of how much you pay.

 

The only itineraries I wouldn't try this would be the Christmas and New Year's ones, as those are popular and will sometimes sell out early.

 

 

 

What About Promotions?

 

Contrary to popular belief, promotions are somwhat independent of fares. It is not correct to say that they always raise prices before a promotion, and lower them afterwards.

 

However, promotions DO affect fares in two ways. First, price drops will often be delayed if a promotion is forthcoming. So if the computer would normally drop the price today but a good promotion is coming three days from now, the price drop will be delayed with the assumption that the promotion will bring in new orders and the percentage of staterooms sold will "catch up" to historical averages.

 

So then why do you sometimes see price drops right after promotions end? If the promotion fails to drum up enough interest to reach the expected percentage sold, the price will be lowered right when the promotion is over.

 

Second, if the cruise is selling ahead of historical averages, and if a promotion is coming up, the price might be raised because it is determined that this sailing doesn't "need" the promotion to reach the sales goals.

 

These two factors can give the illusions that promotions are just a shell game where you are actually paying for the extra perks you get, but in reality it sometimes just works out that way for the reasons stated above. There is not a set rule in the system to jack up prices just for promotions.

 

On a side note, you should always seek out the best promotion possible if booking prior to final payment date, and rebook if you see a better one (provided the fare hasn't risen). If you are booking in the 14-55 day range, you shouldn't worry too much about promotions, as the money you save on fare will typically dwarf any promotion they're running, aside from Kids Sail Free. Of course, Kids Sail Free requires that you stuff extra people in one stateroom, which in my opinion is quite unpleasant for a balcony room or smaller.

 

 

 

What's The Conclusion?

 

If you want a SUITE, book as early as possible, and then watch for price reductions online. (You likely won't see much of one, though.)

 

If you want a mini suite, book as early as possible, and then watch for price reductions online. However, if you are willing to gamble regarding the mini suites selling out (and just take a balcony if they do), I would suggest still waiting until the 55 day mark, because you will often save some money over booking early (though usually not anything dramatic).

 

If you want a baclony, oceanview, or inside, do NOT book early, unless the itinerary is rare (such as one that only sails 1-3 times per year) or during the Christmas/New Year's holidays. Instead, wait for the 55 day mark and do what I described above to get the best price.

 

 

 

Where did I get the above information? Some of it was from my own observations and studies, while some of it came from speaking to a source within NCL with whom I've recently become acquainted.

 

Feel free to ask me any questions.

Thank you for this post! It was one of the most comprehensive post I have ever seen and confirmed what I thought.

I would also add, read your newspaper. Last year there was an article in our paper about cruise ships having a hard time filling ships. I was watching the price for 6 months and when I saw that article, I booked a GTY Balcony. I booked 2 weeks before the April sailing. I was happy because unlike most, I do not cruise for the ship. I vacation to relax and enjoy being away.

This year after watching the price for the same amount of time(comparing airfare, timeshares etc... I just booked last week for an April cruise. I did book a GTY minisuite with balcony. I will be happy again just to get away. For the record, I love to plan trips and usually plan well in advance. For cruises, the last minute bookings have worked for me. I also live in NJ.,so getting to NY is ideal.

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sigh.. been looking at NCL everyday for the past 30 days for a cheap Southern Carribean cruise on the Breakaway.

 

 

 

never seen it lower than $799/person and now at $849/person.

 

 

 

i'll keep looking...

 

 

But that's a 12-night cruise right? IMHO that is very, very cheap for a 12-night cruise!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Cruise Critic Forums mobile app

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I decided to roll the dice and try your technique for the October repositioning of the Dawn from Boston to New Orleans. We bought one way non-cancelable air tickets from Portland, Oregon to Boston this weekend. Now we will wait and watch until the 55 day point.

 

Our last cruise was a Panama Canal reposition on the Star. I did notice they dropped the pricing just inside the 60 day window for the commodity class staterooms (inside, outside, balconies). Fortunately, we got a good deal booking 10 months ahead of time. But, the prices did drop a little lower when they had the big push to fill the ship.

 

Waiting with crossed fingers...

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I decided to roll the dice and try your technique for the October repositioning of the Dawn from Boston to New Orleans. We bought one way non-cancelable air tickets from Portland, Oregon to Boston this weekend. Now we will wait and watch until the 55 day point.

 

Our last cruise was a Panama Canal reposition on the Star. I did notice they dropped the pricing just inside the 60 day window for the commodity class staterooms (inside, outside, balconies). Fortunately, we got a good deal booking 10 months ahead of time. But, the prices did drop a little lower when they had the big push to fill the ship.

 

Waiting with crossed fingers...

 

Good luck with that one, last years equivalent 7Nov repo the real price drops(IX $399, OX $599) were in the last week with a short 3day window of mid Sept 49days out when most BX and above sold out at cheap prices.

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Very interesting information. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

 

Wonder how much of this is applicable to other cruise lines? I realize you have "inside information" from NCL, but perhaps someone can comment (especially RCCL and Carnival).

 

Happy sails.

 

Kathy

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I read this several nights ago and book marked it for future reference.

 

It makes a lot of sense and I have seen some of these things happen.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to compile this information and explain it so well. I know this question is ask around here so often.

 

 

Now...I wonder does this same theory work for all the cruise lines? I have less than 2 weeks before the 55 day mark hits on a cruise I'm watching with another cruise line and it has done nothing but increase about $200+ over the last month. :eek: :( Thoughts?

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Now...I wonder does this same theory work for all the cruise lines? I have less than 2 weeks before the 55 day mark hits on a cruise I'm watching with another cruise line and it has done nothing but increase about $200+ over the last month. :eek: :( Thoughts?

 

I only have one experience with a major price drop after final payment, and that was for the Oasis. I was in a suite, and prices had skyrocketed after we booked.

 

I went back and checked my booking confirmations for that cruise. Low and behold, on September 21st, which was 55 days out, I saw a huge price drop and upgraded to a Loft suite for very little money. Since I'm obsessed, I kept watching, and ended up doing a second upgrade to an Aqua Theater Suite at 40 days out. I remember being floored by the second upgrade...it cost me $7.50 per person!:D

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I only have one experience with a major price drop after final payment, and that was for the Oasis. I was in a suite, and prices had skyrocketed after we booked.

 

I went back and checked my booking confirmations for that cruise. Low and behold, on September 21st, which was 55 days out, I saw a huge price drop and upgraded to a Loft suite for very little money. Since I'm obsessed, I kept watching, and ended up doing a second upgrade to an Aqua Theater Suite at 40 days out. I remember being floored by the second upgrade...it cost me $7.50 per person!:D

 

Wow, that's an awesome story with an awesome price for the upgrade. Lucky you. I'm hoping this will be the case with other cruise lines. I would really like to see that "drop" to jump on board and book around the 55 day mark. :)

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Wow, that's an awesome story with an awesome price for the upgrade. Lucky you. I'm hoping this will be the case with other cruise lines. I would really like to see that "drop" to jump on board and book around the 55 day mark. :)

 

I would be willing to bet they all use pretty similar pricing strategies. I thought it was interesting that the first big break came at exactly 55 days, which is what the OP said to look for!

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sigh.. 3 days out and price is still $799 for the 12day southern carribean on Breakaway.

 

looks like I'm not going this winter.

I think you may have set your sights too high, or too low… Have you ever seen prices go much lower than that for the Breakaway? Seems like a great price to me (although I would go for OX at $1049 to get the free UBP).
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I think you may have set your sights too high, or too low… Have you ever seen prices go much lower than that for the Breakaway? Seems like a great price to me (although I would go for OX at $1049 to get the free UBP).

 

1st time I followed pricing for the Breakaway.

 

Gem had a 11day to eastern carribean for $499 a couple of months ago.

I went on that one.

 

was hoping the breakaway would drop to $45/day too :p

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Pokerpro5, wonderful insight, appreciate you do this.

 

We are two families with kids and looking to do the Getaway for July 25th, looking to get 4 balcony's next to each other. Given this, is it hard to do negociating since we have put this caviot onto our plans? We normally do the balcony/inside room with the kids and us, but with the current promotion of the specialty dining plan, we wanted to take advantage of getting balcony's and the specialty plan added for free for the whole family (we rarely drink, so the beverage plan has no appeal). Since this is a July 25th cruise, the 55 day rule, should we wait till May 31st to book or book now, but wait till May and look for discounts to final pricing. Any help appreciated.

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1st time I followed pricing for the Breakaway.

 

Gem had a 11day to eastern carribean for $499 a couple of months ago.

I went on that one.

 

was hoping the breakaway would drop to $45/day too :p

 

That was an incredible price. Probably not realistic to expect Breakaway to drop that low because it's a newer ship, but hey, no reason not to watch prices and jump if you see something you like (and can travel short notice). $799pp for a 12-night cruise on Breakaway is an amazing price as is, IMHO.

Edited by Dave85
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Thanks pokerpro. I've done well in the past booking last minute, even with haven suites. Final pmt on my upcoming Europe cruise on the jade is In a couple days. I booked the cruise initially as a 14 night vs 2 seven night because a year ago the 14 night was a couple hundred less than 2 seven nt (taxes on two seven nt were higher along w/slightly higher cruise fares.)

 

Since booking I've yet to see the price of my ov or any other cat decrease. Instead they've doubled but that's hard to judge lately because they're now sold with the Ubp, Udp and or obc. The sailing is early May and dates can't be changed because airfare is booked.

 

So today's sale is the first price drop I've seen. Not for the 14 nt but dropped for the 2 seven nt. I called TA and canceled, rebooked as 2 seven nights, saved $100 on fare and got ubp and $400 obc, ($200 for each leg).

 

Much of the savings is actually due to KSF and KS 50% for second leg, we have 3 in the room. I have a hunch the price of balconies and mini suites will decrease vs increase prior to sailing compared to the last couple years patterns.

 

I see the jade cruises coming up selling for a fraction of the cost. Some sailings I could be in a h3 for less than our OK room. All of the havens and most of the suites have been gone for our sailing for a few mos now. I know the winter sailings are a different demand and so will go for less in the end but the price drop today despite the sale gives me hope to upgrade to a balcony.

 

lm planning on keeping the bookings I have and making the final payments however should the price of balconies drop considerably prior to sail and I decide to upgrade what do you think the odds are that I get to keep perks? I think those are some hefty perks and they may go away if I upgrade. Thanks for any insight.

Edited by littlelulu01
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The pattern on the Jade and spirit has seen prices relatively high and some real drops for the Nov, Dec, Jan.

 

The choice sale made the early 2015 cruises absolute bargains because the prices also dropped.

 

lead in price with UDP and UBP was $499 + $125tax. on the 10/11 days in Jan.

(best prices within 4 weeks of sailings), Spirit went to the same prices.

 

Feb is following trend for the Jade. Spirit is getting better money.

 

The later cruise will be higher as the weather becomes warmer much more popular with UK bookings. Also April the ship reverts to summer sailing 7n round trip Venice these are always more expensive.

 

I think the low price on these 7 night trips(with packages) will be nearer $700-$800. might go lower if the perks drop.

 

Be interesting to see where March April prices trend after the sale settles UK has choice through end of Feb.

Edited by insidecabin
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sigh.. 3 days out and price is still $799 for the 12day southern carribean on Breakaway.

 

looks like I'm not going this winter.

 

You must be joking, $800 plus dollars for a 12 day cruise? Don't forget they are feeding you. The only trip cheaper than that is 12 day vacation in a trailer park:D

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You must be joking, $800 plus dollars for a 12 day cruise? Don't forget they are feeding you. The only trip cheaper than that is 12 day vacation in a trailer park:D

 

my price point is $50/day because I've been to eastern carribean (11day for $499) on the Gem.

southern carribean only has 2 ports I've haven't been to.

 

anyway, the point is moot now.

no more southern carribean on Breakaway till 2016.

Edited by fstuff1
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