Weekend cruises(2 Nights out of NY, BREAKAWAY) OFFICIALY CANCELLED

[fshagan]

Can some please explain to me what changed that makes these cruises not allowed? I don't get it. Is it a terrorist homeland security thing because if it that is NUTS. A cruise-to-nowhere can't possibly allow terrorists onto the ship from a foreign port, THERE IS NO PORT! I just don't get the whole thing.

 

See http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/bon-voyage-cruises/story?id=31775815

 

From the article:

 

" ... beginning in 2016, in compliance with U.S laws and regulations, foreign-flagged cruise lines operating out of U.S. ports are not to offer cruises for sale that do not include a call in a foreign port. Ships are cleared into and out of the United States by officials from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security."

 

Still not a reason, right? One reason I've heard is that the crew would be subject to US labor laws if they are doing only US ports, and because the crew does not have valid US work Visas, they cannot work (they are equivalent to illegal aliens). Evidently this provision has been in place but not enforced under "waivers" that are no longer going to be provided. Not sure this is the actual, real reason.

[JAMESCC]

I still don't get the reasoning after reading the article. There must be some convoluted explanation of why? Its stupid and makes no sense.

[njhorseman]

I still don't get the reasoning after reading the article. There must be some convoluted explanation of why? Its stupid and makes no sense.

 

My understanding is that it has to do with DHS deciding that the type of visa typically held by many cruise ship crew doesn't permit them to do anything more than incidental work in the US, and unless a cruise visits a foreign port they've decided that their work in the US for that cruise is more than just incidental.

[Casino Comp Chick]

I'm not on the cruise as I've done the ctn as well as the ba 12 day ....nor would I need airfare.....but.....

 

Ncl would get some bad press if they arbitrarily added 2 days to the 12 day cruises with out offering to pay the airline fee changes.

 

 

And as I mentioned the website still shows 12 day cruises....just when does ncl plan to spring it on pax booking now that it "might" become a 14 day cruise?

 

Btw none of this surprises me anyway and it's difficult to defend ncl as they are not accurately saying this on their website.....very bad decision on their part that will only lead to bad public relations

 

 

A letter to pax already booked on the ctn doesn't make any difference....it is the unaware currently booking the 12 day pax that matters. But it seems ncl doesn't care.....and yes immie or Jimmie I know you are a high roller and ncl caters to you with freebies and that might make you a bit biased.....but why on earth are they still advertising it as a 12 day if they full well know it might become a 14 day. Bad management for sure. Nothing to do with maritime rules....just bad management

 

I'm doing the 10 day gem as I got the rock bottom of prices for January and the 12 day ba is ridiculously high as compared to last jan

 

 

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First off I am not a high roller. I am a mid-roller. 2nd if you follow my posts you will see that there are times I am not happy with decisions NCL has made so I am not what you can call a cheerleader. In fact I got a lot of demerits from this forum during the great smoke debate.

That being said I will welcome an extra few days to my already booked cruise without having to pay for it. As it is adding Friday & Saturday it works out well for me. I do feel bad for the people that book the 2 nighter before the 12 nighter to buy their booze for the longer leg of the trip, hopefully they have the UBP because it can get costly.

[luvtheships]

First off I am not a high roller. I am a mid-roller. 2nd if you follow my posts you will see that there are times I am not happy with decisions NCL has made so I am not what you can call a cheerleader. In fact I got a lot of demerits from this forum during the great smoke debate.

That being said I will welcome an extra few days to my already booked cruise without having to pay for it. As it is adding Friday & Saturday it works out well for me. I do feel bad for the people that book the 2 nighter before the 12 nighter to buy their booze for the longer leg of the trip, hopefully they have the UBP because it can get costly.

 

You still aren't exactly seeing the point I am making.......

 

It is wrong for ncl to still be advertising it as a 12 day on their website if they have intentions ( as evidenced by what you were told by them) that they are planning on turning them into 14 day cruises

 

 

what if I book the 12 day....as advertised on their website.....then find my airfare.....and all of a sudden it becomes a 14 day cruise?

 

If ncl had their website reflecting this possibility then ....oh well

 

But they don't!!!!!!

 

The fact that you have been made aware it could become a 14 nighter but they aren't telling others and are allowing innocent cruisers to book the 12 nighter is terrible.

 

Is ncl that pompous these days?

 

Or is it that they just don't care?

 

Or are they under such poor management that operations are in complete disarray?

 

It doesn't take a genius to realize the website needs updating.

 

 

Btw....just to be sure ....I just checked the website and as of right now ...yep....advertised as 12 nights.....not even a hint of the 14 day possibility

 

 

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Edited July 12, 2015 by luvtheships

[Casino Comp Chick]

You still aren't exactly seeing the point I am making.......

 

It is wrong for ncl to still be advertising it as a 12 day on their website if they have intentions ( as evidenced by what you were told by them) that they are planning on turning them into 14 day cruises

 

 

what if I book the 12 day....as advertised on their website.....then find my airfare.....and all of a sudden it becomes a 14 day cruise?

 

If ncl had their website reflecting this possibility then ....oh well

 

But they don't!!!!!!

 

The fact that you have been made aware it could become a 14 nighter but they aren't telling others and are allowing innocent cruisers to book the 12 nighter is terrible.

 

Is ncl that pompous these days?

 

Or is it that they just don't care?

 

Or are they under such poor management that operations are in complete disarray?

 

It doesn't take a genius to realize the website needs updating.

 

 

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I am getting your point. It is not official and that's why it is still advertised as a 12 nighter. Until its official it will stay that way.

I am in limbo like everyone else though if it is changed its a plus for me, I understand it may not be for everyone else. I am sure there are a lot of logistics involved with changes and they have to have make sure to dot all their i's and cross all their t's before they make a change like that. I am sure that NCL is not happy to have to give out 2 free days times 3 cruises for free to the people that already booked, that is 2 days of free UBP, UDP, Gratuity's free room etc when they typically make a lot of money on the weekend cruises.

Remember this is not their doing, they are being forced to do it by U.S. Customs and Borders so it not the same thing. I am sure whatever the outcome will be will be announced very soon.

Edited July 12, 2015 by iimmie

[Benita]

They don't usually offer anything when they cancel cruises that have been chartered, except a refund. Many were stuck with flights they couldn't cancel.

 

When they chartered the Pearl and made my 11 day cruise into a 10 day cruise, they offered the fare for the day back and gave a hundred dollar shipboard credit if we would keep the booking.

[Crusin6]

Ncl better get moving with this because I'm planning on booking the 12 day but not going to as It will be to difficult for me logistically if it goes to 14 nights and I don't need airfare I just have other logistics issues

 

 

I was ready to book online as I always do...... But something told me to check out cc first

 

 

I feel for newbies that don't understand as much as we seasoned cruisers and cc posters do

 

 

As a previous poster said.....it's not an act of God that might extend this cruise.... Ncl knows full well they might be extending it but they are not letting the cruising public know this as their website says 12 days!!!!!

 

 

Ncl has blatantly chosen to keep this info off their website..... Very interesting

 

 

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[Casino Comp Chick]

Ncl better get moving with this because I'm planning on booking the 12 day but not going to as It will be to difficult for me logistically if it goes to 14 nights and I don't need airfare I just have other logistics issues

 

 

I was ready to book online as I always do...... But something told me to check out cc first

 

 

I feel for newbies that don't understand as much as we seasoned cruisers and cc posters do

 

 

As a previous poster said.....it's not an act of God that might extend this cruise.... Ncl knows full well they might be extending it but they are not letting the cruising public know this as their website says 12 days!!!!!

 

 

Ncl has blatantly chosen to keep this info off their website..... Very interesting

 

 

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Th only cancelled the 2 nighters on Thursday. Friday the phones were probably busy with people changing their bookings. The corporate office is closed on weekends. I do not understand your conspiracy theory.

[luvtheships]

Th only cancelled the 2 nighters on Thursday. Friday the phones were probably busy with people changing their bookings. The corporate office is closed on weekends. I do not understand your conspiracy theory.

 

The poster you quoted has a very valid point

 

They knew weeks ago that they were being cancelled regardless of the Thursday notification

 

I too would expect a company as big as ncl to update the website ASAP or at least have a disclaimer posted about the possibility of an extension

 

It's no conspiracy it's just poor management and lack of concern for the pax

 

And really? Weekend closing? IT people work all the time on weekends.....and a situation like this is a perfect example as to why they do

 

 

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[Casino Comp Chick]

Curiosity got the better of me. I just priced out what it would cost NCL for my M1 category (I used December 11 pricing. The loss on my cabin is $2032.88. The fares are $889.00 x 2 + UBP for 2 ppl x 2 days. That is a huge loss of revenue since the beverage plan is never offered on the weekers. The loss of revenue on the DOS is over $5000.00

I can see NCL hating the border patrol right about now

[luvtheships]

Curiosity got the better of me. I just priced out what it would cost NCL for my M1 category (I used December 11 pricing. The loss on my cabin is $2032.88. The fares are $889.00 x 2 + UBP for 2 ppl x 2 days. That is a huge loss of revenue since the beverage plan is never offered on the weekers. The loss of revenue on the DOS is over $5000.00

I can see NCL hating the border patrol right about now

 

I agree they are losing a small fortune

 

But if and when they spring 14 n on those who ready booked or are planning to book 12n they will get plenty of flax

 

I love long cruises and the longer the better but I'm a big planner and line the great majority of pax have many other responsibilities and even without airfare being my issue.... If I book 12 n the only way I would appreciate it turning into 14 n is by act of god

 

Again ncl knows its a real possibly but are not divulging it to the general

Public

 

Not good IMHO.

 

 

 

 

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[Angelus]

This is a very interesting thread. Pretty much everyone in here has a valid point.

On one hand, I understand that there has to be much preparation involved that we're unaware of.

Which additional ports to dock at? Arranging with that dock, time length, port charges, additional services. If that port even has a spot open. They could be full on any particular day. The possible readjustment of other port stops to keep sufficient time travel between each one. I can go on and on.

But at the same time I have to agree with the site's lack of notification.

It's a fact that the 'Nowhere' cruises are cancelled. And that there are possible changes to the 12 day cruises.

If there isn't? Then we all wasted our time worrying about nothing.

But if there is? At the very least put a damn note letting people know. A sticky note! Anything! Or freeze all new bookings till it's resolved.

I was considering this cruise, but can't book it until this matter is fixed.

Like many others, I don't have the luxury to wing it. We need an exact schedule to work with. To arrange around.

I hope that I'm not aggravating anyone, as it is not my intent.

Like I said before, you all have valid points.

And I agree with them.

[fshagan]

Could NCL do this:

 

Extend the 12 day cruises prior to the cruise to nowhere by two days. Include a stop in Manhattan on the 12th day so those passengers who cannot change travel plans can disembark. Sail away without taking on more passengers for two more days at sea and return on the 14th day.

 

That would be a nice perk to customers who have the flexibility to extend their vacations, but not inconvenience those who don't have that flexibility. They would collect the DSC for those extra two days and, at least, minimize their losses by generating at least some income from alcohol and other extras during those two days.

[JAMESCC]

My understanding is that it has to do with DHS deciding that the type of visa typically held by many cruise ship crew doesn't permit them to do anything more than incidental work in the US, and unless a cruise visits a foreign port they've decided that their work in the US for that cruise is more than just incidental.

 

Wow crazy, but makes sense now, thanks.

[luvtheships]

Could NCL do this:

 

Extend the 12 day cruises prior to the cruise to nowhere by two days. Include a stop in Manhattan on the 12th day so those passengers who cannot change travel plans can disembark. Sail away without taking on more passengers for two more days at sea and return on the 14th day.

 

That would be a nice perk to customers who have the flexibility to extend their vacations, but not inconvenience those who don't have that flexibility. They would collect the DSC for those extra two days and, at least, minimize their losses by generating at least some income from alcohol and other extras during those two days.

 

This makes good sense and my bet is that will be what they do

 

 

 

 

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[Casino Comp Chick]

Could NCL do this:

 

Extend the 12 day cruises prior to the cruise to nowhere by two days. Include a stop in Manhattan on the 12th day so those passengers who cannot change travel plans can disembark. Sail away without taking on more passengers for two more days at sea and return on the 14th day.

 

That would be a nice perk to customers who have the flexibility to extend their vacations, but not inconvenience those who don't have that flexibility. They would collect the DSC for those extra two days and, at least, minimize their losses by generating at least some income from alcohol and other extras during those two days.

 

I know you won't agree with me but I would much prefer the extra days in the hot Carribean then cold Manhattan. I doubt highly they will do it that way.

[The P]

I know you won't agree with me but I would much prefer the extra days in the hot Carribean then cold Manhattan. I doubt highly they will do it that way.

I agree with you; more fun in the sun. I'm booked on one of the 12 day BA cruises next year and am waiting to see if it changes into a 2 week cruise and if NCL will charge us more. My TA and I await any news....

[Crusin6]

I still think ncl is being negligent toward their pax by not updating the website

 

Especially when they know the cruises could be extended

 

Of course if they extend them you can bet that night 12,will be a call in NYC for those who have already booked and can't extend their trips for any number of reasons

 

 

I guess that is why ncl is in no rush to update website or officially notify pax

 

 

those 12 night pax who must debark as originally scheduled will be angry if the other pax can stay on at no charge for an additional 2 nights

 

 

Of course and as I am following these cruises closely as we were interested in them..... I have seen quite an increase in the past few weeks

 

 

Hmmm. So if you are not already booked you will be paying big time for this cruise going forward as ncl anticipates turning it into a 14 day and you don't think they will do that for free do you? And while they may not be able to get it from those already booked you can bet they will get it from new bookings.

 

I still think ncl is being underhanded by not updating the website and a previous posters excuse about it being a weekend and offices being close is ridiculous.

 

 

The pax getting the worst deal are those currently booking with the new higher prices thinking its a 12 day..... Because that is what they want....then finding out it is really a 14 day.... But need to debark anyway while other pax can continue to enjoy

 

Those are the pax that will demand a price adjustment/obc......and should get it

 

Also imho another reason ncl is not updating their website is because they fully know it is easier to sell a 12 day versus a 14 day.

 

 

 

 

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[Crusin6]

I agree with you; more fun in the sun. I'm booked on one of the 12 day BA cruises next year and am waiting to see if it changes into a 2 week cruise and if NCL will charge us more. My TA and I await any news....

 

 

lol. Chances are very high that night 12 will call on NYC and night 13 Newport Rhode Island or be cruising in circles 12 miles out of NYC.

 

 

 

Also....just checked the website....still showing 12 nights.

 

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Edited July 13, 2015 by Crusin6

[The P]

lol. Chances are very high that night 12 will call on NYC and night 13 Newport Rhode Island or be cruising in circles 12 miles out of NYC.

 

 

 

Also....just checked the website....still showing 12 nights.

 

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I'll take the additional 2 days on the ship if that's what happens no matter where it goes. But if it goes to 14 days and that doesn't work for people, they'll have the option of canceling before. It takes a lot of time to debark and those staying on board won't be happy sitting at the pier. The quicker NCL makes decisions on this, the quicker we'll all be able to decide how to proceed. The revenue department has their calculators busy, LOL...;)

[Casino Comp Chick]

you can bet that night 12,will be a call in NYC for those who have already booked and can't extend their trips.

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How much?

Wouldn't that be classified as a CTN then? If they touch port in NYC that should be the closing of the loop off of the 12 nighter.

I know other people are more knowledgable on this so if anyone knows and wants to jump in to clarify...please do.

[luvtheships]

How much?

Wouldn't that be classified as a CTN then? If they touch port in NYC that should be the closing of the loop off of the 12 nighter.

I know other people are more knowledgable on this so if anyone knows and wants to jump in to clarify...please do.

 

Why do you think NYC couldn't just be added as a stop?

 

If they don't add any new pax at that stop no big deal

 

Why would you now think it would become a ctn?

 

 

I agree that it is very likely night 12 will be a port stop in NYC and night 13 and 14 either at sea or another close by stop

 

As long as no new pax board in NYC it isn't a ctn. it would just become a 14 night cruise with additional USA stops in addition to the numerous foreign ports it called on

 

Rccl has a cruise from Baltimore that stops in port Canaveral and key west plus Nassau and coco cay so multiple usa ports along with foreign ports is not unheard of not to mention all the Canada cruises that make stops in Maine and Boston

 

 

Just don't take on additional pax during that as yet still hypothetical second manhattan stop.

 

 

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Edited July 13, 2015 by luvtheships

[Casino Comp Chick]

Why do you think NYC couldn't just be added as a stop?

 

If they don't add any new pax at that stop no big deal

 

Why would you now think it would become a ctn?

 

 

I agree that it is very likely night 12 will be a port stop in NYC and night 13 and 14 either at sea or another close by stop

 

As long as no new pax board in NYC it isn't a ctn. it would just become a 14 night cruise with additional USA stops in addition to the numerous foreign ports it called on

 

Rccl has a cruise from Baltimore that stops in port Canaveral and key west plus Nassau and coco cay so multiple usa ports along with foreign ports is not unheard of not to mention all the Canada cruises that make stops in Maine and Boston

 

 

Just don't take on additional pax during that as yet still hypothetical second manhattan stop.

 

 

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Ok I wasn't sure if it was allowed. I would still prefer hot sunny weather over NY cold, snow & sleet given the choice.

I guess we will all find out soon enough.

Edited July 13, 2015 by iimmie

[chengkp75]

Another reason to repeal the Jones Act. If this is done then there could be more Hawaiian inter Island cruises, or straight from LA, or San Francisco without a Vancouver or Ensenada stop. NCL Pride of America can do this because it is a US flagged ship and pays hefty fees for this, (of course passed onto the customer.)

Itineraries could be improved for the west coast if we didn't have to go to Ensenada. It would be lovely to sail San Diego to Los Angeles to Catalina to Santa Barbara to San Fransisco with overnights. The possibility of increased tourism for the east coast too ...Just sayin.

 

Merchant Marine Act of 1920

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Jones Act.

The Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (P.L. 66-261), also known as the Jones Act, is a United States federal statute that provides for the promotion and maintenance of the American merchant marine.[1] Among other purposes, the law regulates maritime commerce in U.S. waters and between U.S. ports. Section 27 of the Jones Act, deals with cabotage (i.e., coastal shipping) and requires that all goods transported by water between U.S. ports be carried on U.S.-flag ships, constructed in the United States, owned by U.S. citizens, and crewed by U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents.[2] The Act was introduced by Senator Wesley Jones.

 

Laws similar to the Jones Act date to the early days of the nation. In the First Congress, on September 1, 1789, Congress enacted Chapter XI, “An Act for Registering and Clearing Vessels, Regulating the Coasting Trade, and for other purposes,” which limited domestic trades to American ships meeting certain requirements.[3]

 

The Merchant Marine Act of 1920 has been revised a number of times, the most recent revision in 2006 included recodification in the U.S. Code.[2] In early 2015 Senator John McCain filed for an amendment that would essentially annul the Act.[4]

 

The Jones Act is not to be confused with the Death on the High Seas Act, another United States maritime law that does not apply to coastal and in-land navigable waters.

 

NJHorseman has it correct, it was the fact that allowing foreign crew to serve on ships that only called at US ports was essentially allowing them to work full time in the US without a work visa.

 

John McCain has been fighting to repeal the Jones Act (curiously for CC members, not the PVSA) for years.

 

Disregarding the Jones Act, which doesn't apply to the passenger trade, I will answer as I have on all threads regarding the PVSA (which is the law that applies to passenger trade). If you repeal the PVSA, then every ferry boat, commuter boat, water taxi, casino boat, dinner cruise, and even charter fishing boat currently operating in the US would be free to reflag to a flag of convenience, and therefore not have to meet US taxes, US labor laws, or meet the more restrictive USCG safety, training, and documentation regulations. Jobs would be lost to US citizens, money would be lost to port cities because US citizens are no longer working these ships and boats, and therefore not spending their salary in the local area, US tax revenue would be lost, and probably most importantly, marine accidents and incidents would increase due to the USCG not being able to enforce the US safety laws.

 

Further, many other countries around the world have cabotage laws similar to the Jones Act and PVSA. Japan has them and China as well, which is why Carnival is partnering to build ships in China and fly the Chinese flag, to allow strictly China itineraries.

 

If there was enough demand for US only itineraries (above that already provided by smaller ship companies like Blount), the cruise lines would have one or two US flag ships in their fleet. The cruise lines have no interest in repealing the PVSA.