HAL no longer requires formal dress

[caladezi]

We were on Volendam two weeks ago, Smart shorts were not allowed in the Main Dining room on any night. Tidy jeans (not frayed / faded) were allowed in Dining room any night except Formal nights. All ladies were wearing long dressed, cocktail dresses, smart blouses & skirts or trousers (ie not all LONG but def very smart for formal nights). Men without jackets were allowed in to Formal dinner BUT they were in minority and looked rather out of place

 

 

Why are men wearing skirts (kilts) allowed when the rule clearly states pants? Just because that culture considers a skirt "formal" does not mean that it is appropriate when the rule calls for pants. What about the Texan who dresses formal in fancy starch pressed jeans, expensive boots, western jacket and tie? I feel very sorry for any snob in a tux who would be uncomfortable sitting at a dinner table with someone like this.

[14thmed]

Well I guess the schleppers finally made us say "Uncle"

 

HAL- just have a separate dining room for people that want to dress. Charge people an extra $100 per cruise to eat in there. Have bigger shrimp,more lobster,and better cuts of meat.

 

You'll have people lined up with a jacket to get in there (it's always about the food) you can even get into selling jackets on the ship. Order a bunch,they'll go like hotcakes.

 

I'm In.

[cruz chic]

Very well said and I can pretty much guarantee that is what is going to happen. But there are always going to be the Chicken Little's that the "Sky is Falling" (I know that ages me but I remember the book as a kid)I am been trying to say that everyone can still dress up if they want on Gala Nights and there will still be a lot of those that will.

The other term that comes to mind is "Mountain out of a Molehill" :D

The other things is if you have not notice HAL is hurting financially.....they have to give away cabins, the quality of food has sank to an all time low. They have the least amount of crew than any cruise line out there. Service is nothing to what it was 10 years ago. If they did not do something soon to get more people to WANT to cruise with HAL, HAL would soon go away. HAL was really the only cruise line remaining with just a few exceptions that still pushed Formal Nights. But because of the sinking they really had to make some major changes but yet allow those that still want to dress up to fee they can. HAL really is not HAL any longer of course either is Princess. They are really now one cruise line both called Holland America Group.

Personally I think there is a lot more shake down things to happen that will be more obvious.

 

Give away cabins? Only after final. Maybe they should change their smoking policy. That might help. Why not go smart casual every night instead of being wishy washy? Please don't tell me every cruise line discounts after final. It's been my experience that celebrity offers good prices to early bookers.

[qsuzi]

I'm not sure what this is about. I'm referring to the "gala" requirements so I'm not sure why you are quoting the smart casual suggestions. I'm suggesting the entire cruise be smart casual, so no gala.

 

I did understand you to say you were suggesting to go all smart casual so no gala. I should have added/asked do you think HAL's definition of smart casual will end the confusion?

[qsuzi]

Very well said and I can pretty much guarantee that is what is going to happen. But there are always going to be the Chicken Little's that the "Sky is Falling" (I know that ages me but I remember the book as a kid)I am been trying to say that everyone can still dress up if they want on Gala Nights and there will still be a lot of those that will.

The other term that comes to mind is "Mountain out of a Molehill" :D

The other things is if you have not notice HAL is hurting financially.....they have to give away cabins, the quality of food has sank to an all time low. They have the least amount of crew than any cruise line out there. Service is nothing to what it was 10 years ago. If they did not do something soon to get more people to WANT to cruise with HAL, HAL would soon go away. HAL was really the only cruise line remaining with just a few exceptions that still pushed Formal Nights. But because of the sinking they really had to make some major changes but yet allow those that still want to dress up to fee they can. HAL really is not HAL any longer of course either is Princess. They are really now one cruise line both called Holland America Group.

Personally I think there is a lot more shake down things to happen that will be more obvious.

Lisa, where did you get the information that HAL has the least amount of crew of any cruise line? Just curious.

[cruz chic]

I did understand you to say you were suggesting to go all smart casual so no gala. I should have added/asked do you think HAL's definition of smart casual will end the confusion?

 

We seem to be talking about 2 different things. I'm saying end gala so it will be completely optional if some want to dress up. I think the smart casual is clear but there will always be those that can't/won't comply with that.

[GmaPajama]

Why are men wearing skirts (kilts) allowed when the rule clearly states pants? Just because that culture considers a skirt "formal" does not mean that it is appropriate when the rule calls for pants. What about the Texan who dresses formal in fancy starch pressed jeans, expensive boots, western jacket and tie? I feel very sorry for any snob in a tux who would be uncomfortable sitting at a dinner table with someone like this.

 

A snob in a tux? We wear tux and gown on "gala" nights - and we are the furthest things from snobs you'll ever find.

[qsuzi]

We seem to be talking about 2 different things. I'm saying end gala so it will be completely optional if some want to dress up. I think the smart casual is clear but there will always be those that can't/won't comply with that.

 

Yes I do understand you are saying end gala. I have no other questions about your posts on this thread.

Edited August 10, 2015 by qsuzi

[caladezi]

A snob in a tux? We wear tux and gown on "gala" nights - and we are the furthest things from snobs you'll ever find.

 

Good for you. That's the way it should be, but there have been several posts in this thread where posters have talked about how uncomfortable they were or would be if their tablemates were not dressed as they were. If that type of thing affects their dining experience then they are indeed snobs and should request a table by themselves so they can just sit an admire each other.

[Wakepatrol]

Very well said and I can pretty much guarantee that is what is going to happen. But there are always going to be the Chicken Little's that the "Sky is Falling" (I know that ages me but I remember the book as a kid)I am been trying to say that everyone can still dress up if they want on Gala Nights and there will still be a lot of those that will.

The other term that comes to mind is "Mountain out of a Molehill" :D

The other things is if you have not notice HAL is hurting financially.....they have to give away cabins, the quality of food has sank to an all time low. They have the least amount of crew than any cruise line out there. Service is nothing to what it was 10 years ago. If they did not do something soon to get more people to WANT to cruise with HAL, HAL would soon go away. HAL was really the only cruise line remaining with just a few exceptions that still pushed Formal Nights. But because of the sinking they really had to make some major changes but yet allow those that still want to dress up to fee they can. HAL really is not HAL any longer of course either is Princess. They are really now one cruise line both called Holland America Group.

Personally I think there is a lot more shake down things to happen that will be more obvious.

 

 

It will never happen because HAL is with Carnival but....

 

What if they were independent and started an ad campaign called Cruising Like It Used To Be" had higher prices but not Seabourne Regal etc.

,

Advertise - you will be met at the gangway and escorted to your room. handed a glass of champagne. You will dress up and feel like a Princess or King for an entire week. Can they not find any takers for this?

 

Believe it or not,there's a middle market for nice things. We have a fish restaurant in a strip mall,where dinners are $27 a plate and people are waiting 90 minutes to get in. Yes I know they could go to Arthur Treachers for 1/8 of the price but not everyone wants Arthur Treachers.

 

There's a middle market that does not want a Yugo can't afford a Bentley but would like something nice in the middle.

 

 

not arguing with you (you're one of my favorite posters) just thinking out loud

Edited August 10, 2015 by Wakepatrol

[igraf]

This would not be the first time that a HAL employee gave out wrong information.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

How about the name and extension # of this employee? The information in your post conflicts with the written info for our upcoming cruises, and I would certainly hate to have our vacation ruined by bad information without a citable source. (Already know who you are. I just need the HAL employee.) Thanks! :)

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

Personally I think there is a lot more shake down things to happen that will be more obvious.

 

I have sensed this on a real level for a while now.

How long will Princess and HAL compete for the same market?

My thoughts on in which direction is HAL going clarified for me a bit last week while on NCL. Even this 'old lady' senior HAL sailor liked the vibrancy and youth I found on NCL. :) Did I like NCL better than HAL? For sure, No.

Did I like it a lot? For sure, yes. HAL has to make some changes in order to thrive, IMO, and dress code is but just one of those changes.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2015 by sail7seas

[Tennessee Titan]

IMHO: This has been beaten to death. Dress how you want, do what you want, and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

As has been said over and over, If you don't like it, go elsewhere.....

[rafinmd]

No, it is not necessary to go that far. Most everyone will dress decently most of the time. I own a tuxedo which I pack for all cruises, even for lines that allow almost anything to be worn on "elegant" nights. DW and I always get compliments for looking good on those nights.

 

First of all, your suggested dress code is punctuated properly. Try making a run on sentence. It'll be more authentic. :) Here's the real one. Use it as an example.

 

"For gentlemen, jacket and tie are appropriate, collared shirt and slacks are required in all restaurants except those on Lido Deck which permit jeans, shorts and T-shirts."

 

With the old dress code, you could never tell if someone was nicely dressed because they wanted to be, or if they were nicely dressed because they were forced to be. With the new dress code, you'll have a much better indication of a person's motivation. It's not perfect, but there's definitely something to be said for the voluntary stratification.

 

"Like" for both responses.

[JPH814]

IMHO: This has been beaten to death. Dress how you want, do what you want, and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

As has been said over and over, If you don't like it, go elsewhere.....

 

The problem is - HAL used to be the "elsewhere" you would go to for a more traditional, formal experience. There is now one less "elsewhere" to go.

 

Funny, the same people who are telling the "formal" crowd to go "elsewhere" are the people who the "formal" people were telling to go "elsewhere" when they were ignoring the rules.

[George C]

This would not be the first time that a HAL employee gave out wrong information.

 

igraf

 

Hope you are right, one of the thing I like about Hal is that the people are dressed a little nicer than most cruises.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Lisa, where did you get the information that HAL has the least amount of crew of any cruise line? Just curious.

 

 

No exact statistics other than some talks with Hotel Directors. But anyone that has ventured away from Hal in the past two years will tell you the amount of severs in the dining room, stewards cleaning cabins are bar staff serving drinks is far less than other cruise lines based on passenger ratio. In almost all the ships Hal has added cabins and reduced the number of crew cabins for the added revenue cabins. The opposite is being done for lines such as NCL, Celebrity and RCL. Anyone that knows Officers on any Hal ship will tell you that not having enough crew is and cabins to place crew even if they could get more is their biggest challenge. ......... Just how many threads and posters have commented about the lack of servers and no Wine stewards in the dining room. How about the stories of the many cabins the stewards must clean twice a day. One does not need exact numbers when it's plain and clear right in front of them. I can tell you that is definitely not the case on NCL [emoji6]

 

 

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[LAFFNVEGAS]

Hope you are right, one of the thing I like about Hal is that the people are dressed a little nicer than most cruises.

 

 

Curious when was the last time you were on another cruise line that the passengers on the other line were dressed LESS nicer than those on Hal? And what line was that?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lizzie68]

I think Lisa is right in many of the points she has made. And there seems to be an appalling lack of trust in fellow passengers - why assume that everyone but yourself will be wearing sweats and tshirts or whatever? We are grown up people, we know how to conduct ourselves and how to dress. A minor change in the policy is not going to open the dam to Walmart nation.

HAL is hurting big-time, and some of the cutbacks seem more evident on HAL than on other lines. Especially in the crew to passenger ratio. They are desperate to survive, and they can no longer offer the "Signature of Excellence".

It is no accident that it is now the only line that allows smoking on balconies when all the others ban it. I am sure there is a hope that they will attract a whole new clientelle.

As someone else posted, let's just settle down and see how it rolls out. And if worst comes to worst, there are other cruise lines.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Lizzie68

[POA1]

Curious when was the last time you were on another cruise line that the passengers on the other line were dressed LESS nicer than those on Hal? And what line was that?

 

 

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Silversea, 2005. Royal Caribbean, 2006. Oceania, 2006.

[JPH814]

I think Lisa is right in many of the points she has made. And there seems to be an appalling lack of trust in fellow passengers - why assume that everyone but yourself will be wearing sweats and tshirts or whatever? We are grown up people, we know how to conduct ourselves and how to dress. A minor change in the policy is not going to open the dam to Walmart nation..

 

 

Look at the history:

When black tie was required, people pushed the envelop by wearing business attire (suit and tie)

When suit and tie was required, people ignored that and dropped the tie and started wearing golf shirt and a sports jacket.

Now a jacket is no longer required, only no jeans and no shorts.

Why should we have faith in "grown up people"?

[RedneckBob]

If you have to ask, there is no point explaining it to you.

 

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me y'all. But I may not be the smartest turnip off the truck but I thought I asked a simple questions which I have no clue the answer.

 

Why are CC people so infatuate with the topic of formal wear and what people wear on the boat, more so than the boat activities, ports, wildlife, food, entertainment, etc ?

[qsuzi]

No exact statistics other than some talks with Hotel Directors. But anyone that has ventured away from Hal in the past two years will tell you the amount of severs in the dining room, stewards cleaning cabins are bar staff serving drinks is far less than other cruise lines based on passenger ratio. In almost all the ships Hal has added cabins and reduced the number of crew cabins for the added revenue cabins. The opposite is being done for lines such as NCL, Celebrity and RCL. Anyone that knows Officers on any Hal ship will tell you that not having enough crew is and cabins to place crew even if they could get more is their biggest challenge. ......... Just how many threads and posters have commented about the lack of servers and no Wine stewards in the dining room. How about the stories of the many cabins the stewards must clean twice a day. One does not need exact numbers when it's plain and clear right in front of them. I can tell you that is definitely not the case on NCL [emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I have only one HAL cruise and many on Princess and RCI and agree with you on the staff to passenger ratio issue based on my experience and what I've read on this board - but again that was only one cruise.

 

On dress code I have been on HAL, Princess, and RCI so far this year and didn't find much difference in how cruisers dressed. I had read so much on this board about dress on HAL so was surprised that the dress code was not as formal as I thought it would be.

Edited August 10, 2015 by qsuzi

[qsuzi]

Silversea, 2005. Royal Caribbean, 2006. Oceania, 2006.

 

Overall not much, if any, difference in dress between Crown Princess in January, HAL Veendam in March, and RCI Jewel in June - all 2015. Length and location may be a factor, e.g., they were all 7 day cruises; 2 to the Mexican Riviera and 1 to Alaska.

Edited August 10, 2015 by qsuzi

[Wakepatrol]

Look at the history:

When black tie was required, people pushed the envelop by wearing business attire (suit and tie)

When suit and tie was required, people ignored that and dropped the tie and started wearing golf shirt and a sports jacket.

Now a jacket is no longer required, only no jeans and no shorts.

Why should we have faith in "grown up people"?

 

Yea- the same grown up people that put booze in mouthwash bottles:rolleyes: