Windstar no longer "luxury" quality

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

The question is, as one reviewer noted, how long can they stay in business running at half capacity... And how would the service have been with a full complement of pax?

 

We usually don't buy trip insurance, but we might for our March Legend cruise :o

 

Just for curiosity, what is the average occupancy rate for cruises? At least for those lines that turn a profit.

[Snow cat]

The question is, as one reviewer noted, how long can they stay in business running at half capacity... And how would the service have been with a full complement of pax?

 

We usually don't buy trip insurance, but we might for our March Legend cruise :o

 

Just for curiosity, what is the average occupancy rate for cruises? At least for those lines that turn a profit.

 

Most cruisers understand that lower occupancy rates are not unusual at this point in the med season (end).

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Low occupancy is mentioned in several reviews.

[Mrs_Tiki]

Just one person's experience with one sail date, but when I booked our December sailing on the Legend in early September, there were only a few cabins from which to choose in each category we checked.

[sauertea]

In regards to the small number of passengers on our cruise. We sailed on October 17 from Athens to Venice. I think the small compliment of passengers was probably because it was the end of the season. Many of the ports we visited were relatively uncrowded. We talked to quite a few local residents who told us that the season would be done in a couple of weeks and that they would close for the winter.

[sealord]

The question is, as one reviewer noted, how long can they stay in business running at half capacity... And how would the service have been with a full complement of pax?

 

We usually don't buy trip insurance, but we might for our March Legend cruise :o

 

Just for curiosity, what is the average occupancy rate for cruises? At least for those lines that turn a profit.

 

Windstar is owned by Xanterra, a privately held company, and they are huge! They might sell off Windstar if it is not profitable in the long term, but I don't think they are very likely to go Chapter 7 and leave you without a boat. The subject of going 'self insured' is a different issue. I almost missed our last Tauck trip due to a detached retina. That 'cruise' loss would have been substantial (I had insurance), but nothing compared to the cost of evacuation from some remote area.

 

One pax on our trip passed out on an excursion, so they sent him to the hospital via ambulance (cost?) thinking he had a heart attack. Then he missed the river boat, and took a $300 dollar cab ride to catch up. He was still laughing about it when I last saw him ... guessing he had insurance.

[dandee2]

Xanterra will not sell Windstar considering the deal they got when they bought the ships in the first place.

 

That being said, many Canadian (me included) decided that they would not pay a surcharge of over 30% (Canadian $ loosing 30% over the last 2 years VS US$) to sail cruise lines that charge in US$. Same might be said about the Euro and the AUS$. That might be one of the reason they are not full (mind you, on our last 3 cruise with WS, Canadian were making roughly 5-7% of the passengers).

 

Still love WS

 

dandee2

[sealord]

Xanterra will not sell Windstar considering the deal they got when they bought the ships in the first place.

 

That being said, many Canadian (me included) decided that they would not pay a surcharge of over 30% (Canadian $ loosing 30% over the last 2 years VS US$) to sail cruise lines that charge in US$. Same might be said about the Euro and the AUS$. That might be one of the reason they are not full (mind you, on our last 3 cruise with WS, Canadian were making roughly 5-7% of the passengers).

 

Still love WS

 

dandee2

 

Whats the alternative? I would think you would have to deal with the exchange rate regardless of where you go ... or do you just not travel outside of Canada?

 

We just did a river cruise with Tauck on the Danube, and we had quite a few Canadians. Paid in dollars, and they used Euros onboard for what little you could buy.

[6rugrats]

Whats the alternative? I would think you would have to deal with the exchange rate regardless of where you go ... or do you just not travel outside of Canada?

 

Yes, I also don't understand this.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Re the loonie.....

 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Ragnar Danneskjold

[Strenz]

I do not understand either. We know that money exchange is out if our control. I remember when it took US $ 1.55 to buy one Euro so going to Europe was very expensive for us but if wanted to go we had to pay the exchange rate and we wanted to go. I also remember not long ago it took 1.10 US to buy 1 dollar Canadian, since we adore Quebec and go often we paid it. Our Swedish friends send me their CC cards and I buy them their fare and their money is in flex as well. There is not much an individual or a company can do with money exchange. I am sorry Dandee you feel you can not go. I am sure with Celebrity you pay in dollars. I do not have an answer. Good Luck Susanne

[G&S2C]

Ditto! Just back from "Glitter and Glam" cruise. Housekeeping, as well, was off throughout the ship. From stain chairs left at entrance of Amphora to dirty evening glasses still on tables at Yacht Club at 6 a.m.. Doubling the staff and ships in 1 year has definitely caused noticeable growing pains. Nice ship but but not in "ship shape"!

[diane.in.ny]

Ditto! Just back from "Glitter and Glam" cruise. Housekeeping, as well, was off throughout the ship. From stain chairs left at entrance of Amphora to dirty evening glasses still on tables at Yacht Club at 6 a.m.. Doubling the staff and ships in 1 year has definitely caused noticeable growing pains. Nice ship but but not in "ship shape"!

 

I've seen this problem on other main stream lines. Not limited to Windstar unfortunately.

 

But my question is how was housekeeping in your cabin? Cleaned well and in a timely fashion?

[milepig]

I've been reading this thread thoughtfully since we got off our French & Italian Riviera cruise a few weeks ago, our first on Windstar. We've previously cruised about 10 times: 5 Caribbean on RCI/Celebrity, 1 Alaska on Princess, 3 Azamara in Europe which is what we've been doing lately, and most recently 1 Caribbean on Seabourn in February (coincidentally on this same ship, the Legend).

 

We'd read the reviews and were a little concerned before we left. I can see where it comes from but the reviews are overly harsh. I'd place this cruise as definitely above the mainstream lines, somewhat above the Azamara cruises, and definitely below the Seabourn cruise.

 

To me, the ship looked great; I could see where the upgrades had been put in since February's sailing. It isn't the youngest, hottest ship in town, but it is nicely appointed and well-designed. So to me anyway, the problems weren't with the ship itself.

 

The food was fine--not as good as Seabourn which blew me away--but certainly better than Azamara, which was itself better than the mainstream lines. Again, this isn't where the problems were.

 

 

The service was where I think Windstar fell down a bit. The dining service staff seemed young and inexperienced, and perhaps spread a little thin. Very nice and friendly always, but not always there with what you needed in anything like a timely manner. They seemed like they wanted to provide good service but didn't quite know how to make it top-notch: water glasses not refilled promptly (or at all), tea service so slow in the morning that it was aggravating, long lags on order-taking in the evening, very slow breakfast service. Other small lapses: One evening at Candles, a lamb chop bone fell to the ground and people walked by in many times without picking it up.

 

In addition to these lapses in wait-service, there were other ways in which the service wasn't top notch. We walked right on to the ship--that was good. Then we waited in line for something like 45 minutes to check in--not so good. We had a tender issue throughout the cruise, but especially one day when both tenders stopped functioning. We were at the tender port for an hour or more without one word on what was going on, no updates, not attempt to make the time pass or to explain how long things would be. I'd have expected the guys on duty at the tender pier to try to keep us up-to-date and to interact with the growing crowd and/or the people stuck on the dead tender. No interaction, no information. Isn't that what service would be in this situation? The tender issue continued during the cruise with very little information shared with us.

 

Getting on and off the ship was easy but nobody was there to say the customary "welcome back" or "enjoy your day". Small things but noticeable. Especially when we disembarked, we were on our own--not so much as a goodbye.

 

There wasn't any one thing that said to me "not luxury" but there were enough smaller things that weren't as good as they should have been for me to agree that this was not a luxury cruise. A good cruise? Absolutely. I can't compare it to other Windstar but compared to Seabourn which we'd just been on (as I said--same ship), not quite there. Would I sail them again? Perhaps, but if the price were at premium-plus, not at luxury prices.

 

So I have no axe to grind, no over-arching complaint that taints my whole view. It was a nice cruise--a very nice cruise--but just a little "off" from what a luxury cruise would be.

 

Very well written indeed, and mirrors much of what we experienced on our last two WS cruises. Many, many small things not the way they were done in the past. One more seemingly small but still sub-par example. In AmphorA, in the past the dirty dishes were collected by the server and brought out of the dining room, and clean stuff was neatly put away at the serving station. On the Surf in August the dirty dishes were stacked up in a plastic bin at the serving station, and clean stuff was just dumped there still in the plastic containers from having been washed. Even cutlery, which was sticking up out of the dishwasher holders. I'm 99% sure that in the past the flatware was put into drawers and taken out as needed, and plates, glasses etc, were neatly stacked, not just dumped on the station willy-nilly.

 

We also experienced one of those hour-long gaps in the middle of tender service, with people piling up on the pier waiting to go back to the ship - in the hot sun, with no WS rep on shore.

Edited November 23, 2015 by milepig

[RMS Olympic]

I sail the Surf on Dec 12th and am anxious to see the product in total. The last time I sailed WS (on the Wind Song) was 16 years ago.....and many WS owners ago. I acknowledge the Surf is aging, but as long as she is clean I will be happy. Food is a personal thing, but quality of preparation and presentation is not a difficult thing to achieve and hopefully it will be superior to mass market big ships. Service though will be a deciding factor for me.......especially on a small ship, the service should be attentive and friendly. If the parent company is in the hotel resort business, then service should be spot on.

I must admit some of the threads concerning WS in general makes me think the power yachts can't compare to the sail vessels......so I am hoping the Surf will be a wonderful experience. I will be comparing my WS experience to my Star Clipper sailings which were wonderful. They were not luxurious, food was simple but well done.....and the crew were fantastic. I must admit the Star Clipper employees made me feel like family.....and kept me coming back for more.

I have sailed everything from Buckets such as the Odysseus to the top of the heap....Regent Voyager,the Seabourn Star, and everything in between. I do believe you get what you pay for so if its a low tariff, I expect less and vice versa. My needs are few......a clean bed, a hot shower, tasty food, good bar service and a friendly crew. This sailing will be my 79th overall, so I am anxious to see how WS measures up. I hope to write a review....and if I do it will be observations and hopefully few "opinions".

Wind Surf.......the first 5 minutes onboard sets the tone......so get ready!:D

[sealord]

I sail the Surf on Dec 12th and am anxious to see the product in total. The last time I sailed WS (on the Wind Song) was 16 years ago.....and many WS owners ago. I acknowledge the Surf is aging, but as long as she is clean I will be happy. Food is a personal thing, but quality of preparation and presentation is not a difficult thing to achieve and hopefully it will be superior to mass market big ships. Service though will be a deciding factor for me.......especially on a small ship, the service should be attentive and friendly. If the parent company is in the hotel resort business, then service should be spot on.

I must admit some of the threads concerning WS in general makes me think the power yachts can't compare to the sail vessels......so I am hoping the Surf will be a wonderful experience. I will be comparing my WS experience to my Star Clipper sailings which were wonderful. They were not luxurious, food was simple but well done.....and the crew were fantastic. I must admit the Star Clipper employees made me feel like family.....and kept me coming back for more.

I have sailed everything from Buckets such as the Odysseus to the top of the heap....Regent Voyager,the Seabourn Star, and everything in between. I do believe you get what you pay for so if its a low tariff, I expect less and vice versa. My needs are few......a clean bed, a hot shower, tasty food, good bar service and a friendly crew. This sailing will be my 79th overall, so I am anxious to see how WS measures up. I hope to write a review....and if I do it will be observations and hopefully few "opinions".

Wind Surf.......the first 5 minutes onboard sets the tone......so get ready!:D

 

I think you will be happy with the first five minutes at least. We have cruised on the Surf twice this year, and we were not disappointed by anything. Of course, we realize that everyone has to be 'new' at something at least a few times in their lives. So you will not always have the most expert waiter in the cruise world. And you might encounter someone who has been taught how to make a Manhatten, and since they were raised in the Philippines, and may not drink, they might not realize that there are at least six ways to make a Manhatten. So they might get confused when you ask it to be made a certain way. And if occassionally everyone decides to visit the same dining venue at the same time, the service might suffer a bit. We have done at least forty cruises, and the Wind Surf is our favorite ship, 'manned' by our favorite people. Last aboard in July, the crew was friendly and engaged, and did their best to handle whatever situation that they encountered. If you are in a hurry for breakfast, and they get overwhelmed by a big crowd, do the buffet instead of the menu. Personally, I have never been in a hurry for anything on the Wind Surf. If you want really prompt service, perhaps McDonalds would be a better choice. (;-)

[RMS Olympic]

Thanks for the response...... great common sense. I have never had an issue with a crew members lack of knowledge and believe praise in public, chastise in private. If there was an attitude problem that would be a different matter and I would seek out their respective supervisor. I do not go on holiday to complain, and when I did b-tch it was because of rude passengers.

[Sunprince]

Not sure if this has been said before so my apologies for repeating this. Windstar is not and has never been a "luxury" cruise line as implied by the subject of this thread. If anyone thinks it is, then you need to venture into the luxury cruise market. Silversea, Crystsl, Seabourn, Regent are luxury lines...WS is not. We have sailed WS, Regent and Seabourn. The WS sailing ships are a unique experience which we enjoyed, but lowered our expectations after having previously sailed on Regent. Both were nice but different. I would not sail on the new 3 WS ships. They are outdated, no real balconies and the pricing is at a premium. Seabourn is not much higher priced, when you factor in what is included. Service, food and the overall experience is far superior.

 

For those concerned about the CAD, Seabourn prices in Canadian dollars at a much more favourable rate than those lines charging USD. If you can get a Seabourn "sale" offering a balcony guarantee it actually works out less expensive than most WS cruises. I am not a Seabourn or any other cruise line cheerleader, only a smart consumer looking for value and a great cruise. Hope this helps.

[Snow cat]

Not sure if this has been said before so my apologies for repeating this. Windstar is not and has never been a "luxury" cruise line as implied by the subject of this thread. I would not sail on the new 3 WS ships. They are outdated, no real balconies and the pricing is at a premium.

 

I concur with what Sunprince says...I would only describe it as "casual elegance" (as Windstar does) not luxury so anyone looking for luxury would likely be disappointed.

 

On the other hand, I was very pleased with our cruise on the new WS ship. Enjoyed it very much and would sail on any of them again in an instant.

[Strenz]

I have been amused about all the definitions about luxury and WS. For me it is such a personal term. My luxury is another's regular occurrence.

" state of great comfort vs extravagant living"

" condition of great abundance vs great ease and comfort"

" something adding great ease or comfort but not necessary"

"Elegance"

" something one enjoys but does not get often"

" something expensive that you enjoy but do not necessarily need"

So speaking to friends and family who have taken the WS due to the experiences my husband and I have had and believe it or not and I am not a travel agent, it has been over 100 people since 1999 when we took our first cruise. Everyone of them would have described WS as luxury, casual elegance. For it is elegant and for us luxury and thankfully not ostentacious. We do not need people serving us drinks in the water in a tux. WS gives us our sense of luxury:

Sails, wind, sea, great service, wonderful food, terrific mattresses, great water pressure and bath products, friendliness with crew and passengers, no crowds and lines, fair prices, lovely drinks, nice wine selection, quiet, destinations that are intellectually stimulating and destinations that are relaxing, salt air, experiences i.e., Tall Ships, going trough the Dardenals, and I could go on. Are they necessary in life no but they sure are wonderful and being able to share the experiences with people we love time and again. Is everything perfect 100% of the time no but who cares for us it is about as perfect a way to travel as one can get. We are trying the motor yacht in 6 days and I am sure that will meet our definitation of luxury. Happy Sailing, don't let the word define your experience and make you miserable enjoy it for we are the fortunate ones to be able to define the word within ourselves. Susanne

[sealord]

I have been amused about all the definitions about luxury and WS. For me it is such a personal term. My luxury is another's regular occurrence.

" state of great comfort vs extravagant living"

" condition of great abundance vs great ease and comfort"

" something adding great ease or comfort but not necessary"

"Elegance"

" something one enjoys but does not get often"

" something expensive that you enjoy but do not necessarily need"

So speaking to friends and family who have taken the WS due to the experiences my husband and I have had and believe it or not and I am not a travel agent, it has been over 100 people since 1999 when we took our first cruise. Everyone of them would have described WS as luxury, casual elegance. For it is elegant and for us luxury and thankfully not ostentacious. We do not need people serving us drinks in the water in a tux. WS gives us our sense of luxury:

Sails, wind, sea, great service, wonderful food, terrific mattresses, great water pressure and bath products, friendliness with crew and passengers, no crowds and lines, fair prices, lovely drinks, nice wine selection, quiet, destinations that are intellectually stimulating and destinations that are relaxing, salt air, experiences i.e., Tall Ships, going trough the Dardenals, and I could go on. Are they necessary in life no but they sure are wonderful and being able to share the experiences with people we love time and again. Is everything perfect 100% of the time no but who cares for us it is about as perfect a way to travel as one can get. We are trying the motor yacht in 6 days and I am sure that will meet our definitation of luxury. Happy Sailing, don't let the word define your experience and make you miserable enjoy it for we are the fortunate ones to be able to define the word within ourselves. Susanne

 

Well spoke! (;-) We have cruised Silversea, and it was very nice ... and all inclusive. That initself makes this an apples and oranges discussion. And on Silversea we had the benefit of having to figure out what to ask of our butler. Going aboard Windstar, however, is like going home to our home away from home. I think they have been voted the best small ship cruise line several times for a reason ... or a number of reasons. On the other hand, we don't look for flaws, we just enjoy the overall experience.

[avalong]

I have been amused about all the definitions about luxury and WS. For me it is such a personal term. My luxury is another's regular occurrence.

" state of great comfort vs extravagant living"

" condition of great abundance vs great ease and comfort"

" something adding great ease or comfort but not necessary"

"Elegance"

" something one enjoys but does not get often"

" something expensive that you enjoy but do not necessarily need"

So speaking to friends and family who have taken the WS due to the experiences my husband and I have had and believe it or not and I am not a travel agent, it has been over 100 people since 1999 when we took our first cruise. Everyone of them would have described WS as luxury, casual elegance. For it is elegant and for us luxury and thankfully not ostentacious. We do not need people serving us drinks in the water in a tux. WS gives us our sense of luxury:

Sails, wind, sea, great service, wonderful food, terrific mattresses, great water pressure and bath products, friendliness with crew and passengers, no crowds and lines, fair prices, lovely drinks, nice wine selection, quiet, destinations that are intellectually stimulating and destinations that are relaxing, salt air, experiences i.e., Tall Ships, going trough the Dardenals, and I could go on. Are they necessary in life no but they sure are wonderful and being able to share the experiences with people we love time and again. Is everything perfect 100% of the time no but who cares for us it is about as perfect a way to travel as one can get. We are trying the motor yacht in 6 days and I am sure that will meet our definitation of luxury. Happy Sailing, don't let the word define your experience and make you miserable enjoy it for we are the fortunate ones to be able to define the word within ourselves. Susanne

 

what she said :-)

[Lobes1]

I have been amused about all the definitions about luxury and WS. For me it is such a personal term. My luxury is another's regular occurrence.

" state of great comfort vs extravagant living"

" condition of great abundance vs great ease and comfort"

" something adding great ease or comfort but not necessary"

"Elegance"

" something one enjoys but does not get often"

" something expensive that you enjoy but do not necessarily need"

So speaking to friends and family who have taken the WS due to the experiences my husband and I have had and believe it or not and I am not a travel agent, it has been over 100 people since 1999 when we took our first cruise. Everyone of them would have described WS as luxury, casual elegance. For it is elegant and for us luxury and thankfully not ostentacious. We do not need people serving us drinks in the water in a tux. WS gives us our sense of luxury:

Sails, wind, sea, great service, wonderful food, terrific mattresses, great water pressure and bath products, friendliness with crew and passengers, no crowds and lines, fair prices, lovely drinks, nice wine selection, quiet, destinations that are intellectually stimulating and destinations that are relaxing, salt air, experiences i.e., Tall Ships, going trough the Dardenals, and I could go on. Are they necessary in life no but they sure are wonderful and being able to share the experiences with people we love time and again. Is everything perfect 100% of the time no but who cares for us it is about as perfect a way to travel as one can get. We are trying the motor yacht in 6 days and I am sure that will meet our definitation of luxury. Happy Sailing, don't let the word define your experience and make you miserable enjoy it for we are the fortunate ones to be able to define the word within ourselves. Susanne

 

I would agree completely, except on our last WS cruise the food was forgettable, at best, and our cabin and that entire deck stank of cigarette smoke. No more WS for us!

[diane.in.ny]

I would agree completely, except on our last WS cruise the food was forgettable, at best, and our cabin and that entire deck stank of cigarette smoke. No more WS for us!

 

What ship were you on?

[Flatbush Flyer]

I would agree completely, except on our last WS cruise the food was forgettable, at best, and our cabin and that entire deck stank of cigarette smoke. No more WS for us!

 

 

Time to move on to Oceania. Perhaps no sails but they are small ships with great food and one of the most restrictive of smoking policies in the cruise industry.