NCL stirs up the gratuity game

[whitecap]

GRATUITY: AN AMOUNT OF MONEY GIVEN TO A PERSON, SUCH AS A WAITER OR WAITRESS, FOR A SERVICE; SOMETHING GIVEN VOLUNTARILY OR BEYOND OBLIGATION USUALLY FOR SOME SERVICE.

 

The key words here are: "for a service", "given voluntarily" and "beyond obligation". If a passenger doesn't go to the MDR, has the head waiter or Matre 'D performed any service? If you charge passengers for "gratuities" are they "voluntary" ?

 

Just food for thought :D

[navybankerteacher]

Neither are valid reasons.

 

Corporations are taxed on profits. If they take in $10 in service charges and pay out $10 in wages from the service charges no profit results and no taxes are due. Nor are payroll taxes an issue. Virtually all cruise ships fly a flag of convenience, employ almost no US citizens or residents in the "tipped" crew positions, and operate in international waters, so payroll taxes are not due to the federal and state governments.

 

The cruise lines can simply include the service charge in the non-commissionable fare (NCF) and pay no commission on it.

 

You are correct in that it makes no difference to the cruise line - but it does make a difference to the employees to whom the tips go. Such income is treated differently in their home countries - meaning that they get to keep more because of the way the cruise line works things. That being the case, the system winds up giving the staff more money without charging the passengers more - so it saves you money.

[SuiteTraveler]

I hope they take the next step and roll it into the price of the cruise.

Fare - $xxxx

Port fees - $xxx

Taxes - $xxx

DSC - $xxx

_____

Total due - $xxxx

 

I agree with this idea 100%. There is no reason not to include the minimum tips in the cruise fare. If you got to an All-Inclusive resort where tipping is not allowed, then you can be sure that is because the resort is paying their employees the equivalent of what they would get at any other resort through tips if not better. If not, there would be NO employees at such a resort, when, in fact if you talk to AI employees, they LOVE working where they do. It is better for the employees and better for the guests. The employees know in order to keep their jobs they must perform. The guests are not hassled about tips and don't have to worry about it at all.

Edited September 16, 2015 by SuiteTraveler

[notentirelynormal]

This "lastly" seems to clearly express your real motivation: "the extra 2 to 3 hundred dollars for tips means a lot". I understand completely: you feel the money belongs in your pocket and not in the pockets of the people who served you EVEN THOUGH IT IS MADE VERY CLEAR TO YOU THAT SUCH MONEY IS PART OF THE COMPENSATION THEY EXPECT AND DESERVE - and should only be withheld for valid reasons.

 

I'm sorry you do not like being called a cheapskate, but ...

 

Husky61 comes on every thread about tipping to defend his right not to tip. I particularly liked when he posted he didn't understand the tipping process in the US. Wait! He lived and worked in California and now lives in Washington. If the shoe fits.....

[Husky61]

They may be important to the crew as well ;)

 

to each his own

 

I'm sure it is important to the crew but it isn't their money.:)

[Husky61]

 

I'm sorry you do not like being called a cheapskate, but ...

 

Why would you call me a cheapskate when you have no idea at all how much I tip or don't tip? I just don't boast about it here on this forum like others.;)

[swedish weave]

Please name and describe three.

 

No !! You can use Google --- It is your friend !!!

[notentirelynormal]

The key words here are: "for a service", "given voluntarily" and "beyond obligation". If a passenger doesn't go to the MDR, has the head waiter or Matre 'D performed any service? If you charge passengers for "gratuities" are they "voluntary" ?

 

Just food for thought :D

 

First, you aren't tipping the M'D. He's is salaried and not part of the tipping pool. You ARE tipping the staff that cleans your cabin and gets you fresh towels. You ARE tipping the people that serve you food. Do you think that food magically appears in the various restaurants and buffet? How did you get that table bussed? Did someone offer you a drink? Those same people are the waiters you aren't tipping from the MDR. They are shuffled from one eating area to another. As long as you use a toilet or bed someone is cleaning up after you. As long as you eat one bite of food someone is prepping, serving it and cleaning up after you eat.

 

Not sure what they are called on all the various lines, but on Princess the are called Daily Service Charge - not a tip.

 

I was embarrassed to hear that my cousin went on a cruise and didn't tip for his kids. Too much money. This is the same cousin I keep hearing makes lots and lots of money. Oh, did I mention his kids were young adults. Not one was under 18.

[NMLady]

I don't know if I agree with that. First, going to the service desk to remove the DSC is a lot harder than the old cash-in-envelope system where non-tippers simply didn't tip. Plus, the current system forces people to have face-to-face interaction with another person in order to remove the DSC. The new NCL system via telephone takes away that personal interaction, so some people will probably find it much easier to remove their DSC. If they were willing to do it in person, I really doubt they will find it more difficult to do it via telephone. ...

 

It is not done via telephone. The person must first go to guest services while onboard and ask for a form for removing the DSC. So there is still that much face to face interaction. Then, they must fill out the form and EMAIL it to the email address in the form. This requires scanning or a photo. They cannot mail it in. And they can't phone it in.

[Husky61]

Fair enough. It's important to the crew also. However, they should be perfectly honest and tell the crew, especially the cabin steward," you'll be cleaning my toilet all week but at the end of the cruise I'll take back the money you earned."

 

They're not going to order any drinks, are they? There's a gratuity added to those also.

 

I think you are missing the point. The question was about NCL requiring someone to a file claim for the DSC AFTER the cruise and not during the cruise. My point was why should it be difficult to get your own money back, not if the crew earned it or not.:)

[whitecap]

GRATUITY: AN AMOUNT OF MONEY GIVEN TO A PERSON, SUCH AS A WAITER OR WAITRESS, FOR A SERVICE; SOMETHING GIVEN VOLUNTARILY OR BEYOND OBLIGATION USUALLY FOR SOME SERVICE.

 

The key words here are: "for a service", "given voluntarily" and "beyond obligation". If a passenger doesn't go to the MDR, has the head waiter or Matre 'D performed any service? If you charge passengers for "gratuities" are they "voluntary" ?

 

Just food for thought :D

 

First, you aren't tipping the M'D. He's is salaried and not part of the tipping pool. You ARE tipping the staff that cleans your cabin and gets you fresh towels. You ARE tipping the people that serve you food. Do you think that food magically appears in the various restaurants and buffet? How did you get that table bussed? Did someone offer you a drink? Those same people are the waiters you aren't tipping from the MDR. They are shuffled from one eating area to another. As long as you use a toilet or bed someone is cleaning up after you. As long as you eat one bite of food someone is prepping, serving it and cleaning up after you eat.

 

Not sure what they are called on all the various lines, but on Princess the are called Daily Service Charge - not a tip.

 

I was embarrassed to hear that my cousin went on a cruise and didn't tip for his kids. Too much money. This is the same cousin I keep hearing makes lots and lots of money. Oh, did I mention his kids were young adults. Not one was under 18.

 

The point of my post was to show that gratuities/tips are a voluntary action on behalf of the person or persons whom have been provided a service, regardless of who the person was or what service they provided. The recipient of the service MAY decide that the service was so exceptional that an additional "gratuity or tip" is warranted or they may decide that the amount they have were required to pay was sufficient. They MAY also decide that the service was poor or unimpressive and decide to remove the charged gratuities. It is an individual choice a passenger makes and no one, no one, should be ridiculed for their choice. We choose to pay our gratuities and provide an additional gratuity to those who provide exceptional service. That doesn't make us any better or worse or different. Our choice.

[Husky61]

Husky61 comes on every thread about tipping to defend his right not to tip. I particularly liked when he posted he didn't understand the tipping process in the US. Wait! He lived and worked in California and now lives in Washington. If the shoe fits.....

 

Read a little more closely to what I have said. I have never defended MY RIGHT to not tip, but the right of others. I'm sure that I tip as much as you if not more.

 

And show me where I ever posted that I didn't understand the tipping process in the US.

 

Perhaps you just have a small reading comprehension problem which I can easily overlook.:):)

[notentirelynormal]

The point of my post was to show that gratuities/tips are a voluntary action on behalf of the person or persons whom have been provided a service, regardless of who the person was or what service they provided.

 

And my point was that on Princess it is not called a TIP it is called a Daily Service Charge. It is a charge for daily service.

[LHT28]

some people mention the cruise lines should pay their crew a "living wage" so they do not need to rely on the DSC/tips

 

My question is what would you consider a "living wage" & what Country would you base this amount on ?

The Country the crew member comes from?

The USA? or some other formula?

[whitecap]

And my point was that on Princess it is not called a TIP it is called a Daily Service Charge. It is a charge for daily service.

 

This from Princess web site:

 

During your cruise, regardless of which Princess ship you choose, you will meet staff who provide you with excellent service. Crew members often rotate to different vessels within the Princess fleet which helps to maintain our high standards on every ship. These dedicated workers reflect our philosophy that all crew on all ships are but one family who share in our success.

 

To simplify the tipping process for our guests, a discretionary gratuity of $12 per person for mini-suites and suites, and $11.50 per guest in all other staterooms per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. This gratuity will be shared amongst those staff who help provide and support your cruise experience, including all waitstaff, stateroom stewards, buffet stewards, and housekeeping staff across the fleet.

 

For your convenience, this gratuity can be pre-paid online via Cruise Personalizer. Alternatively, you may call us at 1-855-500-7690 and reference Special Services item number 0591. Pre-payment is available up to 2 days prior to departure.

 

A 15% gratuity is added to bar charges, dining room wine accounts, and Lotus Spa® services. This is shared amongst the beverage staff, their support staff and Lotus Spa® personnel.

 

Casino dealers and youth staff do not share in these gratuities. We know you will find these services onboard exemplary.

 

Please note gratuities will be deemed undisputed unless a request to modify is received prior to disembarking the ship.

 

As you can see it is referred to as a "discretionary gratuity".

[Husky61]

There was a time when DH and I scrimped and saved to be able to afford something. We did not go somewhere until we had enough money to pay for everything for which there was a cost. If we used a credit card, we only did if we could pay the full balance when due. It's really quite simple, one just needs to save longer.

 

Quite simple, everyone else needs to do things the way you do.:rolleyes:

[maywell]

Quite simple, everyone else needs to do things the way you do.:rolleyes:

Yes, they should - so people are not crying poverty that they can't pay $10 a day tips. Its like how can you afford $10,000 in a suite that fits 6 for 2 people for 7 days but you can't afford $140 in DSC?

 

Sheesh...Travel within your means... [emoji57]

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

[mafig]

I think you are missing the point. The question was about NCL requiring someone to a file claim for the DSC AFTER the cruise and not during the cruise. My point was why should it be difficult to get your own money back, not if the crew earned it or not.:)

 

I'm not missing the point .. rather I'm not missing your point and neither are most people here.:rolleyes: It will be difficult to get what you call "your own money back" and for that I am very happy.:D

 

Do you think bouncing a check is the same as getting your own money back???

Edited September 16, 2015 by mafig

[SantaFeFan]

I agree with this idea 100%. There is no reason not to include the minimum tips in the cruise fare. If you got to an All-Inclusive resort where tipping is not allowed, then you can be sure that is because the resort is paying their employees the equivalent of what they would get at any other resort through tips if not better. If not, there would be NO employees at such a resort, when, in fact if you talk to AI employees, they LOVE working where they do. It is better for the employees and better for the guests. The employees know in order to keep their jobs they must perform. The guests are not hassled about tips and don't have to worry about it at all.

 

First you say you "agree with this idea 100%" and then you say that you want the DSC included in the cruise fare. The very example you are using to support your argument to include the gratuities as part of the base fare doesn't include DSC as part of the base fare! It is a separate line item independent from the fare.

 

So, which do you actually agree with? Including it in the cruise fare, or adding it to the cruise fare like is is listed in the example you quoted? They are two different things.

 

We prepay our DCS, so to us it is just like the example you quote. Although we pay it as one payment transaction which includes the fare, it is still s separate line item on the invoice.

Edited September 16, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[Aquahound]

It is not done via telephone. The person must first go to guest services while onboard and ask for a form for removing the DSC. So there is still that much face to face interaction. Then, they must fill out the form and EMAIL it to the email address in the form. This requires scanning or a photo. They cannot mail it in. And they can't phone it in.

 

Thanks for the correction. :) I think I read some misinformation about it.

[SantaFeFan]

This from Princess web site:

 

During your cruise, regardless of which Princess ship you choose, you will meet staff who provide you with excellent service. Crew members often rotate to different vessels within the Princess fleet which helps to maintain our high standards on every ship. These dedicated workers reflect our philosophy that all crew on all ships are but one family who share in our success.

 

To simplify the tipping process for our guests, a discretionary gratuity of $12 per person for mini-suites and suites, and $11.50 per guest in all other staterooms per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. This gratuity will be shared amongst those staff who help provide and support your cruise experience, including all waitstaff, stateroom stewards, buffet stewards, and housekeeping staff across the fleet.

 

For your convenience, this gratuity can be pre-paid online via Cruise Personalizer. Alternatively, you may call us at 1-855-500-7690 and reference Special Services item number 0591. Pre-payment is available up to 2 days prior to departure.

 

A 15% gratuity is added to bar charges, dining room wine accounts, and Lotus Spa® services. This is shared amongst the beverage staff, their support staff and Lotus Spa® personnel.

 

Casino dealers and youth staff do not share in these gratuities. We know you will find these services onboard exemplary.

 

Please note gratuities will be deemed undisputed unless a request to modify is received prior to disembarking the ship.

 

As you can see it is referred to as a "discretionary gratuity".

 

I would support your argument if the service staff had the same "discretionary" decision making when providing you with service. You feel it is your discretion how much you will give or not give the service staff? Then the service staff should have the equal discretion as to what level of service they will provide to you. You want to be able to give them a smaller amount? Then they should be able to give you a smaller amount of service in return.

 

What did you say? You don't want them to have equal discretion on how much service they give you???? Hum, that seems a bit one sided and unfair, doesn't it?

Edited September 16, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[sloopsailor]

Why would you call me a cheapskate when you have no idea at all how much I tip or don't tip?

 

Edited September 16, 2015 by sloopsailor

[CPT Trips]

No !! You can use Google --- It is your friend !!!

 

So you don't know three countries (that have high representation of tipped employees on cruise ships) that tax tips and wages differently.

 

Don't feel bad, Goggle doesn't know either :p.

[whitecap]

I would support your argument if the service staff had the same "discretionary" decision making when providing you with service. You feel it is your discretion how much you will give or not give the service staff? Then the service staff should have the equal discretion as to what level of service they will provide to you. You want to be able to give them a smaller amount? Then they should be able to give you a smaller amount of service in return.

 

What did you say? You don't want them to have equal discretion on how much service they give you???? Hum, that seems a bit one sided and unfair, doesn't it?

 

Gee, you asked me questions then answered for me?? You apparently missed my post that said WE ALWAYS PAY THE GRATUITY!!!!. My point has been that the payment of gratuity is "voluntary" and therefore a person who decides not to pay it shouldn't be called names or made fun of.

[Husky61]

Yes, they should - so people are not crying poverty that they can't pay $10 a day tips. Its like how can you afford $10,000 in a suite that fits 6 for 2 people for 7 days but you can't afford $140 in DSC?

 

Sheesh...Travel within your means... [emoji57]

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

 

I love it, people should do things the way you do!:eek: