Elderly Woman falls on Gem, Security leaves passengers to treat her

[Kingofwylietx]

Yeah, someone falls and then their family immediately wants pictures and a list of names....sounds like a classic scam to me.

 

My mom ran into a pole on the pool deck....we didn't ask for the names of witnesses or for pictures....it didn't even cross our mind. We took her to medical care because she had a gash above her eye that required a suture.

 

I'm not offering medical advice, but I wouldn't be overly worried about someone who is ambulatory, conscious, and not vomiting after a bump to the head. I'd still get looked over, but I certainly wouldn't be hysterical.

 

Frankly, if the response of the injured is to have pictures and names taken....they just want $$ and are hoping to sue. A normal persons response is to give or get help.....not collect names and photos.

[HarpHarp]

Yes. Cruising is definitely an "at your own risk" activity. It's fairly obvious if you read through the cruise documentation that if you get injured on board or on shore, you are fairly SOL. Most ships have a doc... but the last cruise we were on he only had hours from 3pm-6pm.... think about that for a second... Scary, right? I mean, what kind of doc works 3 hours a day, on a cruise ship? What are her credentials? Did she go to medical school in the USA or in some 3rd world country? What is she doing when it's not 3-6pm? Sitting at a bar getting plastered? Banging on a boiler in the boiler room? Serving sushi?

 

SCARY.

 

The fact is... There are no EMTs on board. They don't really have a medical staff. The best they have is a nurse and some kind of doctor who are probably more for the staff than the passengers who are also cross trained in other crew jobs. I mean think about this for a second.. they don't even have a lifeguard posted because they don't want to pay a specially trained professional to fill that position, or pay to cross train staff to be lifegaurds to make sure kids don't drown... what makes you think they have a nurse or EMT on board?

 

On our last 2 cruises (Breakaway & Escape) I talked to 2 of the EMTs working on the ship, so your last statement is untrue. One young lady just came aboard & was standing on deck 8 with her kit & AED.

I also saw them respond to 2 emergencies on other cruises & security always show up to evaluate & make sure it is not a criminal or terrorist action.

[GeezerCouple]

DH had a medical emergency the first morning (day 2) of the 3-day stay in Bermuda, while on a cruise on the Dawn.

 

We called the emergency number, and when we answered that yes, he could walk (we also described the symptoms), they asked us to come to the Med Center immediately.

 

I grabbed some money, credit cards, the passports, and some critical meds we use from the safe and we raced down.

 

The medical team kicked into gear quickly, and pretty soon, they had him hooked up to IV lines and some other medical equipment.

Because things were NOT improving, I was about to ask that they call an ambulance (we were docked, after all) when the doctor announced that HE was calling an ambulance.

I of course said, Yes!

 

The drivers in Bermuda are slow, but the ambulance? It was constantly being *passed* by civilian cars. I was going nuts, but on the other hand, I could see and hear that he was apparently quite stable.

 

We were rushed into the ER and seen immediately.

 

The ER docs said that what the NCL medical staff had done was exactly what they would do, and we should now all wait...

They agreed that it was a good choice to call the ambulance in case things didn't go well.

I already had agreed with what the NCL med staff had done (I am familiar with what happened, but there had *never* been anything this severe), and I agreed with the ER docs.

 

The symptoms subsided, and we returned to the ship.

We then had about 24 more hours to decide whether to stay on the ship and sail back, or to get off and fly home.

(That decision was not easy.)

 

We waited until the next morning to see if any symptoms remained, and he continued to take some new meds... continuation of what the NCL docs had started.

 

We stayed on board, and the sail back was uneventful.

 

Bottom line:

Our at home specialist also agreed that everything NCL had done was *exactly* what she would have done in our big city ER.

 

We were impressed with how the NCL team handled things, although we were, of course, sorry that there was any occasion for us to need to observe it.

[david_sobe]

The title of this thread is very misleading " Elderly woman falls on Gem and NCL security leaves passengers to treat her."

To treat a fallen passenger would mean give some sort of medical assistance i.e. CPR, direct pressure on bleeding wounds, etc. It sounds like the passengers went over to see if she was ok and contact the proper medical authorities. Security would be doing the same thing the passengers would be doing...."Are you ok? What do you need? Someone call 911 and get a wheelchair, etc.

I am not sure how security is at fault and how passengers "treated" her beyond, are you ok? Let me help you stand up into the wheelchair, etc.

[JillK]

Thought this might be of interest regarding where cruise lines source their medical staff: http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=175%20

[All-ready2cruise]

I hope the dear lady who fell is doing ok now, bruised I'm sure, shaken a bit too, but well enough to go on her next cruise/vacation with her family.

 

Let's not forget the most important thing here and that's the final outcome.

 

I'll just add that while on the British Isles cruise in Sept. there were so many medical incidents that I lost count. The medical team were very busy and I suspect it was due to the average age of passenger on the cruise. The HD said the incidents of medical emergencies is always higher when the average age of pax rises. This is an unfortunate reality that as we age, we become more unstable and more likely to lose our balance and fall.

 

Unfortunately, accidents happen, the team on the ship can only do so much and when someone else steps in... they will likely not interfere.

 

Asking that names and eye witness accounts be taken by NCL security, IMO, is unlikely to happen and could best be taken care of by the family or those by-standers in the area when it happened. No way should NCL be held responsible.

Edited February 22, 2016 by All-ready2cruise

[Leavethekidswithmom]

It's not a medical emergency unless they call it a code Alpha. If you would have said the lady wasn't breathing or having a heart attack, you would have heard a low profile announcement: code alpha pool deck code alpha pool deck and officers and medical personal would have been running full speed.

NCL came with a wheelchair around 10 to 15 minutes after she fell. The fact that an medical emergency was called in and no medical personnel from the ship showed up is pretty lacking on NCL's part.

 

[SuiteTraveler]

In the United States the case of a fall of an elderly person who can't get up, when 911 is called the fire department sends firemen and paramedics in an ambulance who come to pick the patient up off the floor (unless they have some physical injury preventing that such as a broken hip) and even if the patient says they feel OK and they appear to be uninjured, the paramedics always offer to transport the patient to a hospital. However, if the patient (or his or her medical POA) declines, then the paramedics can't transport them. Only, if, for example, the person who has fallen and can't get up, is inebriated, can the paramedics determine that they will take them to the ER regardless of what the patient says because they are not allowed to leave such patients alone. In that case, the paramedics will try to contact a family member who is medical POA to determine what to do and if the medical POA comes to where the patient is and signs a document stating they are now responsible for the patient, then the paramedics don't have to transport the person to the ER.

 

On a cruise ship, the security officers all hold a Basic Safety Training Certificate which includes 1 day of training in basic First Aid/CPR:

http://www.yachtmaster.com/course/stcw-basic-safety-training

Essentially, the security officers fulfill the duties of a fireman on any cruise ship, including assessing injuries and transporting patients to the infirmary. Generally, if the person is injured, they will urge them to go see the doctor but they cannot force them. If the patient were injured in such a way that more medical help was needed immediately, the security officers would have called for the nurses and doctor to come help. If the person needed CPR, they would have begun CPR, if the person were bleeding, they would have taken action to stem the bleeding and get them to the doctor.

 

This video is a good example of how medical emergencies are handled aboard cruise ships:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlm8W9C-rCo

 

If a patient fell and hit his or her head, I would take him/her to the local ER for a head CT just to be safe - but frankly, I would do that with anyone who hit their head hard, not just an elderly person. Only a head CT can determine if someone is bleeding in their brain or not and it is really important to make this determination as soon after the accident as possible because patients can suffer brain injury or even death if they are bleeding in this way.

 

A cruise ship does not have a CT scan machine, so this would be a situation where the smartest medical decision would be to get the patient to a hospital that does have a CT scan machine.

 

I would not blame the cruise ship for the woman's fall, however, unless there was some obvious defect that caused the fall. Falling head first usually indicates a true medical problem with the person's posture and gait which can be caused by a number of things including vision problems, ear problems, slowed reaction time/neurological problems, problems with balance and orientation in space and motor and muscular problems. If she fell because of the movement of the ship in the ocean, I would think she needed a walker when onboard a ship.

 

In regards to doctors on cruise ships, they are on call 24x7. The infirmary is usually open with the doctor seeing patients who are staff for 4 hours a day and guests for 4 hours a day for non-emergency care, but if an emergency does occur, the doctor will respond no matter what time of day or night it is. Anyone can always call the infirmary at any time and a nurse will answer because one of the nurses is always on duty and will answer and triage your call and then if you need to see the doctor, she will call him and he will come to the infirmary immediately to meet with you, even in the middle of the night. However, a ship's doctor is somewhat limited in what he or she can do by what equipment is onboard and in a serious emergency, he or she would primarily act to stabilize the patient and then decide whether or not this was so serious a helicopter-med evacuation was required or if the patient should be sent to a hospital at the next port. In this case, the woman would have to agree to be seen by the doctor or her medical POA would have to request this. NCL has no right to force medical services upon a passenger. The doctor would do what s/he could in regards to making sure the patient was stable, but with a head injury, even waiting 24 hours could be too late to save the patient's life if they have any bleeding in the brain, and knowing what I know about this, I would act to get the family member to a hospital with the right equipment, no matter what.

[LMaxwell]

 

10-15 minutes is nothing and actually quite quick

 

 

Doesn't sound quick to me.

[luvtheships]

Doesn't sound quick to me.

 

 

Doesn't sound long to me especially since it's all an estimate by the op anyway who is more than likely biased as she doesn't think Ncl responded correctly in the first place

Edited February 22, 2016 by luvtheships

[formerjar]

For what it's worth...my DH broke his foot on an excursion on the 1/22 Gem cruise. Once we got back to the ship (thanks to some angel fellow cruisers) the medical team kicked in to high gear and was amazing. Xrayed the foot, casted it, passed out the crutches and the chocolate covered strawberries (and drinks for the shaken wife...thanks again angel cruisers). Got us off the ship in NY three days later and we went straight to one of the finest orthopedists in NYC...who praised the Gem team's work and didn't even replace the cast. For what it's worth...

[xriva]

I'm assuming the woman didn't have the Ultimate Fall Package.

[luddite]

Doesn't sound quick to me.

 

But hold on! You aren't quick.

[DMH15]

My sister fell on the pool deck on another cruiseline. She was carrying a glass of wine and did not see the splash.

 

Glass shattered in her hand.

 

People rallied with help. She went to the infirmary and they gave her supplies free of charge. Any office visit/stitches were at a fee. So she declined further care.

 

My sister decided I would use my mom's "butterfly suture" technique. I did a good job. She was sore all week.

 

How do you know the woman did not refuse medical care? Care that might be expensive.

 

And pool decks can be slippery. We have to take personal responsibility.

Edited February 22, 2016 by DMH15

[triptolemus]

I guess OP is upset that a trial judge was not dispatched on scene to immediately render a verdict in favor of the "victim". Obviously, NCL was negligent in the placement of the lounge chairs.

Edited February 23, 2016 by triptolemus

[Turtles06]

I can't speak to the medical care on any particular ship right now, but I will recount this story of a life threatening emergency (with a HAPPY ending) on board the Jade a number of years ago. Iwas truly impressed by the medical and other staff on board.

 

We were on a Med cruise, and had just concluded a very wonderful port day in Rome (from Civi), a private shore excursion that I'd organized with two other couples from our Roll Call (unknown to us before this cruise). We were all having dinner in the main dining room, when one of our new friends (in his 50s) said he was seing double, started slurring his speech, and then slumped over his plate. It was beyond frightening; I ran immediately to the MDR host, who called a Code Alpha. The medical staff were in the MDR incredibly fast.

 

To make a very long and all night story very short, our new friend had had a stroke. The medical staff stabilized him and kept him comfortable. But because ships are not equipped to determine whether a stroke was caused by a clot or a hemorrhage, they can't treat with TPA. They had to get our friend off the ship and to a hospital. (The nurse later caught up with the ship in Greece.)

 

It was late at night and we were in stormy seas off the cost of Italy, and not near any major cities, either. It was also too windy for a helicopter. The ship sailed closer to a town, and in pretty high seas and lots of wind, a small boat came alongside and a fairly dangerous evac was performed. Our friend was lowered over the side on a stretcher to the boat, and his wife climbed down a rope ladder. The ship sent one of the nurses ashore too, to accompany the couple to the Italian hospital.

 

While the evac was being arranged, someone high up in Guest Services took care of dealing with the wife and getting their cabin packed up. Could not have been nicer or more helpful.

 

My own spouse and I spent the entire night in the infirmary and so I witnesed all of this firsthand. I hope nothing like this ever happens to anyone else, but I was very impressed by how the Jade handled this life threatening emergency.

 

Our new friend spent about a week in the Italian hospital, and is alive and well, these years later. (Oh-- the couple was from Canada, which actually flew a doctor over to Italy to accompany this man home when he was ready to be released. Pretty amazing to this American!)

[LMaxwell]

But hold on! You aren't quick.

 

Not sure why you felt compelled to insult me for saying a 10 to 15 minute response to an elderly woman falling wasn't quick. Your insults have gone past laughable, past annoying even. your stalker-esque following of my posts is actually becoming kind of creepy.

[LMaxwell]

Doesn't sound long to me especially since it's all an estimate by the op anyway who is more than likely biased as she doesn't think Ncl responded correctly in the first place

 

Whatever:rolleyes:

[luddite]

Not sure why you felt compelled to insult me for saying a 10 to 15 minute response to an elderly woman falling wasn't quick. Your insults have gone past laughable, past annoying even. your stalker-esque following of my posts is actually becoming kind of creepy.

Yikes!

[shepherdqueen]

On our Jewel cruise, I fell on the pool deck when a child zoomed in front of me and I lost my balance. I had a doctor in the crowd rush to my side, as well as several NCL crew. Once I was back on my feet, and I knew I could walk, I refused any medical attention. I was quite bruised, and a tad sore, but I had my own NSAID.

 

Now on our last cruise, my husband made the mistake of eating a too rare steak (almost mooing, not as he ordered, but he is not one to complain). He was so sick that we did go to the infirmary. There the medical staff took fabulous care of him, including doing an EKG. Once sea sickness was ruled out, they refunded all medical charges, kept him in the cabin for another 24 hours, and gave him the apropriate medication, all at no charge. They called to check on him, and our experience was top notch. I do not remember where the doctor was from, but the other staff member was fun South Africa. We had a quick conversation how we have friends in dogs in Johannesburg.

 

Edited for presumptive text from my tablet. It seems to have a mind of its own.

Edited February 23, 2016 by shepherdqueen

[LMaxwell]

Yikes!

 

I know! :eek:

[macandlucy]

Not sure why you felt compelled to insult me for saying a 10 to 15 minute response to an elderly woman falling wasn't quick. Your insults have gone past laughable, past annoying even. your stalker-esque following of my posts is actually becoming kind of creepy.

 

It's a little creepy to me, too, and I am just experiencing it as a (virtual) bystander.

 

To the people who are bothered by the OP's post, here's another perspective: when I read that story I didn't interpret it as a slam on NCL, more like a reminder of the realities of cruising. You are not in a big city and while I am sure they do everything they can, there are limits to the services they can provide, and it seems, sometimes limits to the speed with which they can deliver those services.

 

Some small towns in Canada don't have nearby hospitals -- I don't take that fact as a criticism of the town, just as a factual reminder and something to consider when traveling there. Same thing for cruising.

[FitchburgWIFamily]

FWIW:

 

My mother (age 80 something) sustained an injury while on an NCL excursion on the Star. We ended up spending quite a bit of time in the ship's infirmary, so here is what I can tell you.

 

There were at least two doctors: one from South Africa and one from...ok, I admit it, I forget. But it wasn't South Africa. Both seemed very competent. Infirmary was pretty well equipped to handle at least my mom's medical needs.

 

Security was alerted to the fact that my mom was insured (I assume by the contracted tour operator) and stopped us as we re-boarded and insisted we go to infirmary (even though by then we kind of had the situation under control more or less).

 

After being seen by the doctor, security came down and had me (as witness) and my mom (as injured party) fill out a questionnaire that really was ... well... kind of a get out of lawsuit heavy. How did it occur, what shoes was she wearing, does she wear glasses, were her glasses on, was she drinking, etc. Lots of ways to kind of "pin" it on my mom instead of on NCL (or on bad luck which is what we attributed it too). We both filled it out to the best of our ability and we signed them and security guard witnessed our signatures.

 

We were told to be seen by medical staff 2x a day for remainder of cruise and did so, hardly ever during their office hours. One or both doctors was always available for us to see.

 

We weren't charged anything.

 

Oh, and it wasn't NCL's fault my mom got injured: it was just bad luck.

[DebbieCruises]

For what it's worth...my DH broke his foot on an excursion on the 1/22 Gem cruise. Once we got back to the ship (thanks to some angel fellow cruisers) the medical team kicked in to high gear and was amazing. Xrayed the foot, casted it, passed out the crutches and the chocolate covered strawberries (and drinks for the shaken wife...thanks again angel cruisers). Got us off the ship in NY three days later and we went straight to one of the finest orthopedists in NYC...who praised the Gem team's work and didn't even replace the cast. For what it's worth...

 

I was on the British Isles cruise on the Star last September followed by the TA back to Tampa. (Yes it was FABULOUS!) Unfortunately, I broke my foot on the first day of our adventure and went to the ship's doctor. He graciously took an x-ray and pronounced my foot to be: "Fine." I asked him to please take a second look because the pain was really bad. I also asked for a shoe or boot to make walking easier. He said they did not have those on the ship, and besides there were no broken bones. He gave me a little ice pack to use and an ace bandage and sent me on my way.

 

So I painfully hobbled and limped for our 4 week adventure. Once I returned home, I went to our family doctor and within an hour of having another x-ray, was told to stay off my foot because I had a severe break. Whaaaat?? I went to an ortho doctor the next day and he said the second toe bone was jammed into the second metatarsal causing the metatarsal to splay open. So I had to endure two surgeries, six weeks on a knee scooter, another 4 weeks in a boot, and 12 weeks of bone growth stimulator treatments. I have written to NCL, called multiple times, sent them my surgeon's notes, and the only response I have gotten came after 9 weeks as a letter requesting a "Conditional Letter" from Medicare. I have spent long wait times on the phone with Medicare as well as my personal insurance, and no one can even figure out what a "Conditional Letter" is. In my communication, I asked that they find better trained doctors who can read an x-ray correctly, so this would not happen in the future to another cruiser. Ironically, 2 weeks into the cruises, a friend fell while boarding the ship and broke her second metatarsal, too. They gave her a boot, a wheelchair, crutches, and offered her every kindness and type of help to make her more comfortable. I wonder where the boot and crutches appeared for her but were not on the ship when I asked.

 

Everyone tells me to get a lawyer (including Medicare and my insurance), but I just don't want to go that route. I broke my foot because I tripped. That's not their fault. What I was upset about was the doctor's mistake in reading my x-ray and not giving me anything to ease my pain during the nearly 4 weeks of travel. I've been told by friends to never cruise on NCL again, but I love NCL cruises. One bad experience can't ruin that for me. I just wish someone had the backbone to apologize for the mistake the doctor made and wish me well in the future. But, I guess, in this litigious society, that can't happen any more. It's just sad that people can't say: "I'm sorry, I goofed." Then we can all get over it and plan the next cruise. :)

[Letsgo 2]

I'm sorry the Lady fell, and i hope she is ok.

not sure how this is NCL'S fault ? I don't see it.

Marion