Should Gratuity be based on total cost?

[Linerguy]

I just have to make a comment and put this entire thread in perspective for

myself and my husband.

 

Believe me, we hope we have the opportunity to cruise again and pay gratuities and extra tips to our steward, rather than sitting in a chemotherapy room twice a week hoping for the best.

 

Pam and Ken

 

Good thoughts to you and yours.

[4cats4me]

i hope Princess increases the daily tip amount. Everyone works so hard

$20 a day would be okay with me, as long as it all goes to the hard-working employees and not to corporate.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

I think we are getting off point,

 

if Princess is going down the route of very low entry pricing, attracting new cruisers, who are being sold the idea of nothing else to pay for apart from your drink, and have seen deals including drink, these folks are going to get a shock when they find out about the auto tip and the % it will make up of there costs.

 

Remember I have never been told by any TA to budget for tips, been told is all taken care off, its automatic etc.

 

We here are experienced cruisers or are newbies doing research, however

we make up a tiny % of cruisers,

 

My concern is if I go on a cruise were the price is around £40, a day again some TAs advise cruises in per day costs, getting onboard a ship with hundreds of unhappy first time cruisers will not be fun.

 

from bbc cruise guide Another common cruise complaint we’ve heard about is that dreaded on-board ‘extra’, paying your tips.

 

 

 

yours Shogun

[caribill]

I have booked many cruisers and I am still waiting to be told about the hotel

 

charge

 

It is in the Personalizer nowadays (although it may have always been there).

 

In your Travel Summary PDF it says:

 

Gratuity payment information

 

To simplify the tipping process for our guests, a discretionary gratuity of USD $13.95 per guest for mini-suites and suites, and USD $12.95 per guest in all other staterooms, per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account.......

[Linerguy]

Hi All

 

I think we are getting off point,

 

if Princess is going down the route of very low entry pricing, attracting new cruisers, who are being sold the idea of nothing else to pay for apart from your drink, and have seen deals including drink, these folks are going to get a shock when they find out about the auto tip and the % it will make up of there costs.

 

Remember I have never been told by any TA to budget for tips, been told is all taken care off, its automatic etc.

 

We here are experienced cruisers or are newbies doing research, however

we make up a tiny % of cruisers,

 

My concern is if I go on a cruise were the price is around £40, a day again some TAs advise cruises in per day costs, getting onboard a ship with hundreds of unhappy first time cruisers will not be fun.

 

from bbc cruise guide Another common cruise complaint we’ve heard about is that dreaded on-board ‘extra’, paying your tips.

 

 

 

yours Shogun

 

Sorry, but I think you're the one getting off point. The OP isn't accusing Princess of luring people in with a cheap price, and then, once on board, they spring tips on them (which is not the case). He's saying that, because the cruise was so cheap, he doesn't think he should have to pay the full $12.95 per day for tips (which is also not the case).

 

Also, if you've never had a travel agent tell you about what to budget for as far as tips and other incidentals, you've been going to some pretty lame agents. I've been in this business for 26 years; I assure you, every person I talk to knows exactly what to expect...especially if they're newbies. And if people book directly with Princess, they're directed to the line's website and the Cruise Personalizer, where everything is spelled out as clear as can be. If they choose not to check out the information that Princess provides, it's their own fault. That being said, I can't imagine in this age of instantly accessible information, that someone would step on board a cruise ship completely clueless about what to expect. Nope, I just don't buy it.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Linerguy
Yep

[Cuizer2]

It is in the Personalizer nowadays (although it may have always been there).

 

In your Travel Summary PDF it says:

 

Gratuity payment information

 

To simplify the tipping process for our guests, a discretionary gratuity of USD $13.95 per guest for mini-suites and suites, and USD $12.95 per guest in all other staterooms, per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account.......

 

You are assuming people read.

[PrincessLuver]

No matter what you try to compare it to, the analogy doesn't work. Cruising is a different industry. One in which a service charge is applied. You can either afford to pay it, in which you can afford to cruise, or you cannot, in which case you cannot afford to cruise.

 

The resort charge at luxury hotels irritates me, but I like luxury hotels, so I pay it.

 

Like it or hate it, it is the model.

 

Again.....gratuities on a cruise ship are not mandatory....they are suggested...they can be taken off and I see it done frequently on the night before disembarkation....also....I stay at lot's of hotels but never have to pay the resort fee....there are ways around them....tipping has nothing to do with wether you can afford it or not....it is often a custom or voluntary and based on choice...I am sure there are many wealthy people on cruise ships who do not tip....:cool:

[RocketMan275]

Most professionals do work for a wage and not for a tip. You will find that the level of service on the luxury lines, where the service staff is paid a good wage and tipping is not necessary, matches or exceeds the level of service found on the mass market lines where tipping is almost mandatory.

 

Professionals are those in a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science. Service staff are not professionals.

[RocketMan275]

Hi All

 

I think we are getting off point,

 

if Princess is going down the route of very low entry pricing, attracting new cruisers, who are being sold the idea of nothing else to pay for apart from your drink, and have seen deals including drink, these folks are going to get a shock when they find out about the auto tip and the % it will make up of there costs.

 

Remember I have never been told by any TA to budget for tips, been told is all taken care off, its automatic etc.

 

We here are experienced cruisers or are newbies doing research, however

we make up a tiny % of cruisers,

 

My concern is if I go on a cruise were the price is around £40, a day again some TAs advise cruises in per day costs, getting onboard a ship with hundreds of unhappy first time cruisers will not be fun.

 

from bbc cruise guide Another common cruise complaint we’ve heard about is that dreaded on-board ‘extra’, paying your tips.

 

yours Shogun

 

So, your position is that Princess should change it's system of compensation because of the actions of some unethical travel agents misrepresenting the true cost of cruising in the UK?

Edited March 2, 2016 by RocketMan275

[Cuizer2]

Professionals are those in a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science. Service staff are not professionals.

 

First of all I don't agree with your definition of a professional. A professional is someone that gets paid for doing a job. That is what separates a professional from a hobbyist. That job can be cooking, sewing, performing surgery, cleaning or waiting on tables.

 

Nonetheless, the service people on the luxury lines work for a wage and provide service that is equal to or better than those working for a tip on the mass market lines.

[RocketMan275]

First of all I don't agree with your definition of a professional. A professional is someone that gets paid for doing a job. That is what separates a professional from a hobbyist. That job can be cooking, sewing, performing surgery, cleaning or waiting on tables.

 

Nonetheless, the service people on the luxury lines work for a wage and provide service that is equal to or better than those working for a tip on the mass market lines.

 

Whether you agree with the definition is irrelevant. It is a fairly standard definition of a professional. Too often many want to change the definition to where it applies to anyone working for a wage. That is an inappropriate definition.

 

A more useful definition of a professional is this. A profession is one where one must have special training and education to assess the performance of a person performing a task. By this standard, the captain of a cruise ship is a professional. A waiter is not. By this standard, it would be inappropriate to tip a professional since you do not have the capability to assess his performance. It would be appropriate to tip a waiter since you can make an assessment of his performance.

Edited March 3, 2016 by RocketMan275

[Cuizer2]

Whether you agree with the definition is irrelevant. It is a fairly standard definition of a professional. Too often many want to change the definition to where it applies to anyone working for a wage. That is an inappropriate definition.

 

A more useful definition of a professional is this. A profession is one where one must have special training and education to assess the performance of a person performing a task. By this standard, the captain of a cruise ship is a professional. A waiter is not. By this standard, it would be inappropriate to tip a professional since you do not have the capability to assess his performance. It would be appropriate to tip a waiter since you can make an assessment of his performance.

 

I have not changed the definition of a professional. People who engage in sports for pay are professional. People who do the same thing at a college level are not. A person who works for pay is a professional in their chosen profession.

[iceleven]

Would you be willing to receive less for your $300 than the person paying $600 in the same category? Are you willing to receive fewer options for entertainment, food, activities, etc.?

 

I can see it now....."What would you like Mr. $300 guy, one piece of chicken or fish? And how about you, Mr. $600 guy, will it be the chicken, fish, steak, pasta, soup, salad, or all of the above? And how many?"

 

If you want to give the staff less because you're paying less, then you should receive less than those who paid more for the same category. But you don't, and neither should the staff.

 

Just sayin'.

 

This is saying it and I would perceive it.

[cruzsnooze]

Do you really believe that "tipping...has nothing to do with service"? Do you really think that employees would provide better service working for a wage than working for tips?

 

Top rated cruise lines like Azamara have no tipping it's included and their service tops any mass market line.

[capriccio]

Top rated cruise lines like Azamara have no tipping it's included and their service tops any mass market line.

 

And do you pay more for a cruise on Azamara than you would on the equivalent Princess cruise when including the gratuities?

[cruzsnooze]

Top rated cruise lines like Azamara have no tipping it's included and their service tops any mass market line.

 

And do you pay more for a cruise on Azamara than you would on the equivalent Princess cruise when including the gratuities?

 

I can't quote post # 66 which I responded to which has nothing to do with fares.

[Cruise Junky]

And do you pay more for a cruise on Azamara than you would on the equivalent Princess cruise when including the gratuities?

 

But how do you compare when Azamara includes so much more like drinks and specialty restaurants. Tips are just part of the package

[martin jenkins]

Whether you agree with the definition is irrelevant. It is a fairly standard definition of a professional. Too often many want to change the definition to where it applies to anyone working for a wage. That is an inappropriate definition.

 

A more useful definition of a professional is this. A profession is one where one must have special training and education to assess the performance of a person performing a task. By this standard, the captain of a cruise ship is a professional. A waiter is not. By this standard, it would be inappropriate to tip a professional since you do not have the capability to assess his performance. It would be appropriate to tip a waiter since you can make an assessment of his performance.

 

try telling that to a waiter or somellier in a high end restaurant who are a wealth of knowledge, agree waiters on a cruise ship arnt professionals nothing more than plate carriers.

[livinforcruisin]

Hi everyone,

 

Just reading through the thread and the many that have come before it has made me wonder. Firstly I am from the UK. Secondly we do tip for certain services which includes waiters etc. Thirdly I have never removed the auto gratuity as I believe it is an inherent cost to cruising.

 

My question is really more out of interest. Does the cruise idustry ever reveal what percentage of their cruisers actually do remove tips? I do see big line ups at the pursers desk / reception on the last night of the cruise and wondered if they were there to remove their tips.

 

Observations: I have cruised extensively on Princess and less so on P&O which is the British Brand.

 

On P&O the room service (tip) daily charge is much less and there is no gratuity on drinks. So it does make the overall cost of cruising cheaper. However, we have noticed a considerable difference in the standard of service from bar staff and waiters on P&O i.e. much poorer service.

 

Ask for a glass of water only, and 9 times out of 10 you never receive one. Ask for water in the Horizon court equivalent and you are told they only serve 'paid for' drinks. You can then see several waiters standing around in the buffet area not serving passengers at all but who will not go and get you a drink. Now the question is, is this down to no additional gratuities on the drinks or is it a cultural issue with the waiters who are predominantly Indian on P&O?

 

I don't know the answer to that but give me a Princess Cruise hands down over P&O any day of the week where the service across the board is of a much higher standard. I think tips do incentivise staff. Should they be a replacement for a fair living wage? No. If the renumeration that cruise employees receive is simply down to the whim of the cruising public who routinely remove gratuities then that is a very unfair employer who cares little for their staff.

Edited March 3, 2016 by livinforcruisin

[deise17311]

To the OP - I have an easy solution - Don't go, cancel you're trip -

[RocketMan275]

First of all I don't agree with your definition of a professional. A professional is someone that gets paid for doing a job. That is what separates a professional from a hobbyist. That job can be cooking, sewing, performing surgery, cleaning or waiting on tables.

 

You're using "professions" to describe "occupations". Lots of folks like to describe themselves as "professionals" when they are not.

 

Nonetheless, the service people on the luxury lines work for a wage and provide service that is equal to or better than those working for a tip on the mass market lines.

 

Analysis of the effects of the eliminating tipping as a major portion of compensation in certain occupations has, in general, shown a reduction in the income of servers and the quality of the service rendered.

[RocketMan275]

My question is really more out of interest. Does the cruise idustry ever reveal what percentage of their cruisers actually do remove tips? I do see big line ups at the pursers desk / reception on the last night of the cruise and wondered if they were there to remove their tips.

 

I've never seen any statistics that would answer your question. It probably would have too many variables to be useful across the cruise industry.

 

On P&O the room service (tip) daily charge is much less and there is no gratuity on drinks. So it does make the overall cost of cruising cheaper. However, we have noticed a considerable difference in the standard of service from bar staff and waiters on P&O i.e. much poorer service.

 

Imagine that. Basing compensation on services provided improves service.

 

I don't know the answer to that but give me a Princess Cruise hands down over P&O any day of the week where the service across the board is of a much higher standard. I think tips do incentivise staff. Should they be a replacement for a fair living wage? No. If the renumeration that cruise employees receive is simply down to the whim of the cruising public who routinely remove gratuities then that is a very unfair employer who cares little for their staff.

 

I've yet to get an answer to the question "What is a 'living wage'?"

 

The crew on a cruise ship comes from a widely diverse background. Should the 'living wage' be based upon the differences in cost of living for their home countries? If so, why should a waiter from one country earn a higher 'living wage' than a waiter from a different country? If the 'living wage' is not based upon country of origin, then how is it a 'living wage' since it is no longer based upon the cost of living?

[Mom33]

I just have to make a comment and put this entire thread in perspective for

myself and my husband.

 

Believe me, we hope we have the opportunity to cruise again and pay gratuities and extra tips to our steward, rather than sitting in a chemotherapy room twice a week hoping for the best.

 

Pam and Ken

 

Prayers go out to both of you, that the "best" will be and you can resume cruising. Some times the trivial matters here on CC need a reality check.:)

 

Our last three cruises were great sales with good onboard credit. The onboard credit more than covered the daily service charge.

I would suggest that is true for many cruisers. So in this situation, Princess is paying the tips.

We tip additional to those that gave us good personal service.

Newbies should know that tipping is part of cruising. No one should remove the tips from their account.

[cruzsnooze]

But how do you compare when Azamara includes so much more like drinks and specialty restaurants. Tips are just part of the package

 

The question posed was do I think service would be better with a salary VS tipping. The answer is already out there with cruise lines that do just that and the service is superior. So the answer is yes, I have experienced better service with wages of crew VS tipping.

[cruzsnooze]

 

 

 

Does the cruise idustry ever reveal what percentage of their cruisers actually do remove tips? I do see big line ups at the pursers desk / reception on the last night of the cruise and wondered if they were there to remove their tips.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Many people are settling their accounts with cash. Many people are getting a printout of their accounts to check for accuracy. Many people already checked their accounts and found a discrepancy and want to get it taken care of. Many people are on B2B's and want to find out about what the procedure entails and if they have to disembark. Many people are trying to get a different disembarkation time with a new luggage tag to reflect that. Many people are getting cash for their unused OBC.

So it's not all about removing gratuity at all. Adjustments on the DSC can be done anytime during the cruise so why wait to the last day when the lines are the longest.