Question about PSVA act (AKA Jones act)

[BillB48]

PC2, I think you need to bump your question a little higher up. First of all cruises 1 NJ to Quebec and cruise 2 Quebec to NJ would be considered a close loop cruise with accompanying foreign stop and not impacted by the PVSA. Even when combining 1,2, and 3... it would be considered a NJ to Tampa. Cruise 3 goes to all of the ABC islands which is what makes cruise 3 legal.

 

Perhaps the NC rep (or resolutions for that matter)probably does not completely understand the problem or it could be the computers are kicking out in error.

[PC2]

Last year's Serenade repo did NOT visit any of the ABC islands. That is the reason that you could not leave from Bayonne and end in Fort Lauderdale.

 

You absolutely CAN do Rhapsody Bayonne to Quebec then Quebec to Bayonne. Don't give up that cruise.

 

 

Thanks. I am not worried about it. I just think it is funny that Royal keeps saying that you can't take it but every one else says that you can. I have the Anthem booked as a back up.

 

 

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[Clarea]

...

Perhaps the NC rep (or resolutions for that matter)probably does not completely understand the problem or it could be the computers are kicking out in error.

I'm thinking the rep is getting confused with last year's Serenade repo, which as Carol mentioned, did not go to a distant foreign port.

[CruisesOnMyMind]

Thanks. I am not worried about it. I just think it is funny that Royal keeps saying that you can't take it but every one else says that you can. I have the Anthem booked as a back up.

 

 

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I booked the 3 the on Jewel TA last week. The NC Rep wasn't sure it could be done. He supervisor was not in at the time so he contacted someone from RCCL on shore. He then realized it was 6 hours earlier there.

 

In the meantime his boss comes in and says a definite no to the first 2 that it can't be done. RC Rep said it was strange nothing is popping up on his computer not allowing it. I knew from here others had booked cruises only to find out later it can't be done.

 

Since he had sent the email off to headquarters he said he would let me know for sure later that day if they had a different opinion.

 

To make a long story even longer I had to check back with him about something else later that evening and he said he was talking with headquarters at that moment. Turns out it could be done so we booked them. I have the name of the person he talked to at headquarters. Not that it makes any difference whatsoever if it did turn out wrong.

 

Reason I asked here is because of course CC is a lot more knowledgeable then most of the reps. Now I do feel great that we are good to go.

 

Like you I had booked the Anthem previously because it took so long for the Oct st & 11th cruise to come out for the Rhapsody.

Edited May 17, 2016 by CruisesOnMyMind

[BillB48]

I'm thinking the rep is getting confused with last year's Serenade repo, which as Carol mentioned, did not go to a distant foreign port.

 

I think your are on the money on that... I had forgotten that Serenade cruise did not go to a distant foreign port on that cruise.

[BillB48]

Duplicate post... oops

Edited May 17, 2016 by BillB48

[chengkp75]

I booked the 3 the on Jewel TA last week. The NC Rep wasn't sure it could be done. He supervisor was not in at the time so he contacted someone from RCCL on shore. He then realized it was 6 hours earlier there.

 

In the meantime his boss comes in and says a definite no to the first 2 that it can't be done. RC Rep said it was strange nothing is popping up on his computer not allowing it. I knew from here others had booked cruises only to find out later it can't be done.

 

Since he had sent the email off to headquarters he said he would let me know for sure later that day if they had a different opinion.

 

To make a long story even longer I had to check back with him about something else later that evening and he said he was talking with headquarters at that moment. Turns out it could be done so we booked them. I have the name of the person he talked to at headquarters. Not that it makes any difference whatsoever if it did turn out wrong.

 

Reason I asked here is because of course CC is a lot more knowledgeable then most of the reps. Now I do feel great that we are good to go.

 

Like you I had booked the Anthem previously because it took so long for the Oct st & 11th cruise to come out for the Rhapsody.

 

Glad you got it worked out. Let me get my head into this. Cruise 1 is from NJ to Quebec, right? That cruise doesn't even fall into the purview of the PVSA, since it ends in a foreign port. Cruise 2 is from Quebec to NJ, right? That cruise also does not fall under the PVSA as it starts in a foreign port. When combined, they are NJ to NJ, which is a closed loop cruise, and legal under the PVSA. Even with an overnight in Quebec, these two together are fine, and since cruise 3 visits the ABC's, the whole shmear is good.

 

Now, for PC2. Not sure what the RCI agents have been smoking, but they ain't right. Even if a ship has an overnight on a turn-around port, and you stay onboard, the cruises are considered to be one voyage by CBP. Now, if you disembark upon arrival in Quebec, and settle the bill, and take your luggage to a hotel for the overnight, then reboard the next day and check back in, then the two cruises are separate. If this was done, then you could have booked the Serenade cruise from NJ to Quebec and Quebec to FLL.

 

The ruling about cruises to nowhere has nothing to do with the PVSA. The PVSA specifically allows foreign flag cruise ships to do cruises to nowhere. However, CBP has ruled that in order to do a cruise to nowhere, a foreign flag ship must have crew that all have B1 work visas, not the D1 crew visa that allows them into the US on foreign ships.

[CruisesOnMyMind]

Glad you got it worked out. Let me get my head into this. Cruise 1 is from NJ to Quebec, right? That cruise doesn't even fall into the purview of the PVSA, since it ends in a foreign port. Cruise 2 is from Quebec to NJ, right? That cruise also does not fall under the PVSA as it starts in a foreign port. When combined, they are NJ to NJ, which is a closed loop cruise, and legal under the PVSA. Even with an overnight in Quebec, these two together are fine, and since cruise 3 visits the ABC's, the whole shmear is good.

 

You have it right!

 

I just wonder how many people have tried to book this and have been told they can't.

Maybe this is why there is no Roll Call for the Quebec end of it.

[PC2]

Very interesting. I wonder how many times Royal will change their minds about the Rhapsody cruises.

 

 

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[BillB48]

. Even with an overnight in Quebec, these two together are fine, and since cruise 3 visits the ABC's, the whole shmear is good.

 

Now, if you disembark upon arrival in Quebec, and settle the bill, and take your luggage to a hotel for the overnight, then reboard the next day and check back in, then the two cruises are separate.

 

 

Chief, I have had a few electronic discussions with a lawyer who frequents CC and while doing what you suggest may get you under the PVSA radar he has not been able to get a clear answer from the CBP if a break of some length will satisfy the PVSA. Ultimately the same ship will have taken you to a different US port without the distant port call. It appears how much of a break between voyages is required becomes the sticky wicket... is a one day, one week break sufficient? If it is then why can't you take your bags off and settle the bill and leave on the same ship a few hours later the same day? Seems to be who is interpreting the finer points of the PVSA at that time will decided what is right if it ever is discovered.

[chengkp75]

Chief, I have had a few electronic discussions with a lawyer who frequents CC and while doing what you suggest may get you under the PVSA radar he has not been able to get a clear answer from the CBP if a break of some length will satisfy the PVSA. Ultimately the same ship will have taken you to a different US port without the distant port call. It appears how much of a break between voyages is required becomes the sticky wicket... is a one day, one week break sufficient? If it is then why can't you take your bags off and settle the bill and leave on the same ship a few hours later the same day? Seems to be who is interpreting the finer points of the PVSA at that time will decided what is right if it ever is discovered.

 

As with anything to do with CBP, they can and do make up their rules as they go. My information is that if one cruise ends on one day, and the next cruise starts on a different day, and you "permanently" disembarked (left with your luggage, etc) the first cruise, then the two cruises are separate. I was told that the change in calendar date was the key. I have heard of folks doing this, and also folks that were denied this, so I agree it is murky at best.

 

While somewhat different, because you have to travel to a different port between voyages, on the West Coast, you can do a Hawaii to Seattle, get off the ship, travel to Vancouver, get back onboard and do a Vancouver, Alaska, Seattle and still be legal. They do sell the one night Seattle to Vancouver as a cruise, but if you put the three together it becomes illegal.

 

Edited to say I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

Edited May 18, 2016 by chengkp75

[binbali]

Ok I have a question,I have a clearer picture now but still would like an answer if possible.

 

We are cruising Radiance Hawaii to Vancouver then embarking on Solstice Vancouver to Seattle, is this allowed or not? I have been told Vancouver is not a distant foreign port by some. My understanding is Hawaii being USA Vancouver different port but Canada (foreign port?)

 

Can customs refuse our boarding or are we looking at a fine?

 

Its a bit much this PVSA thing,wondering if we should just change itinerary.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Ok I have a question,I have a clearer picture now but still would like an answer if possible.

 

We are cruising Radiance Hawaii to Vancouver then embarking on Solstice Vancouver to Seattle, is this allowed or not? I have been told Vancouver is not a distant foreign port by some. My understanding is Hawaii being USA Vancouver different port but Canada (foreign port?)

 

Can customs refuse our boarding or are we looking at a fine?

 

Its a bit much this PVSA thing,wondering if we should just change itinerary.

 

As long as you are changing ships you are good to go and have nothing to worry about.

 

Bill

[Cuizer2]

Ok I have a question,I have a clearer picture now but still would like an answer if possible.

 

We are cruising Radiance Hawaii to Vancouver then embarking on Solstice Vancouver to Seattle, is this allowed or not? I have been told Vancouver is not a distant foreign port by some. My understanding is Hawaii being USA Vancouver different port but Canada (foreign port?)

 

Can customs refuse our boarding or are we looking at a fine?

 

Its a bit much this PVSA thing,wondering if we should just change itinerary.

 

You are fine. The PVSA only comes into play when a ship transports someone between two US ports. The Radiance is taking you from Hawaii to Vancouver, BC. Vancouver, BC is not a US port, so this cruise is fine.

 

THEN YOU ARE CHANGING SHIPS.

 

You are then cruising from Vancouver, BC to Seattle. Vancouver, BC is not a US port, so this is fine.

 

Since you changed ships in Vancouver, BC, the combination of the two cruises is not a violation of the PVSA because neither ship transported you between two US ports.

 

IF the Radiance had taken you from Hawaii to Vancouver to Seattle, that would be a violation of the PVSA since the ship (the Radiance) transported you from Hawaii to Seattle.

 

Vancouver, BC is a foreign port. It is not a distant foreign port under the PVSA rules.

 

Since you are from Australia, I would like to point out that there is a city in the state of Washington named Vancouver. However, Vancouver, Washington is not a cruise port. However, this could be an issue if you were flying.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Cuizer2

[Merion_Mom]

Ok I have a question,I have a clearer picture now but still would like an answer if possible.

 

We are cruising Radiance Hawaii to Vancouver then embarking on Solstice Vancouver to Seattle, is this allowed or not? I have been told Vancouver is not a distant foreign port by some. My understanding is Hawaii being USA Vancouver different port but Canada (foreign port?)

 

Can customs refuse our boarding or are we looking at a fine?

 

Its a bit much this PVSA thing,wondering if we should just change itinerary.

 

I answered you on the other thread where you posted this. Did you see it?

 

You are fine.

 

 

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2220492&page=156

Edited August 30, 2016 by Merion_Mom

[binbali]

Thank you both for the reply,I think I have my head around it all. Much appreciated!

[Cuizer2]

Thank you both for the reply,I think I have my head around it all. Much appreciated!

 

Are you sure, because three of us replied (not two). :)

[binbali]

ha ha true, thank you x 3. I would have done the highlight the quote thing but I don't know how to!:D

[Cuizer2]

ha ha true, thank you x 3. I would have done the highlight the quote thing but I don't know how to!:D

 

In the lower right corner of every post there is a quote button. It "usually" works.

[springaussie]

Please tell me if I am wrong This is not allowed.

Back to Back

Radiance

Seward to Vancouver

Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

 

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[Clarea]

Please tell me if I am wrong This is not allowed.

Back to Back

Radiance

Seward to Vancouver

Vancouver to Hawaii.

Correct, not allowed.

 

However, if you make it a B2B2B (Vancouver to Hawaii), it would be allowed.

[springaussie]

Thanks Bob for confirmation

 

 

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[Cuizer2]

Please tell me if I am wrong This is not allowed.

Back to Back

Radiance

Seward to Vancouver

Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If the two cruises are on the same ship, without a stop in Russia, then it is a violation of the PVSA. Of course, if it is a US flagged ship, the cruise would be perfectly legal.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Cuizer2

[Tarponjeff]

I know this is an old thread but looking for answers.  Us Citizen on a ship (cruise) from SYD, Australia to Hawaii (3 stops in HI), then a second cruise (same ship) from Hawaii (3 stops again) then continue with a stop in Victoria, then on to Vancouver and disembark.  Fly back to US from Vancouver.  Two TA's told me that there is no problem on this itinerary and the PSVA.  Other people say they could not book it per the cruise line due to the "Jones Act" Seems the cruise line calls the PSVA the Jones Act.  Anyone know if this itinerary is good to go??  Thanks. 

[Clarea]

3 minutes ago, Tarponjeff said:

I know this is an old thread but looking for answers.  Us Citizen on a ship (cruise) from SYD, Australia to Hawaii (3 stops in HI), then a second cruise (same ship) from Hawaii (3 stops again) then continue with a stop in Victoria, then on to Vancouver and disembark.  Fly back to US from Vancouver.  Two TA's told me that there is no problem on this itinerary and the PSVA.  Other people say they could not book it per the cruise line due to the "Jones Act" Seems the cruise line calls the PSVA the Jones Act.  Anyone know if this itinerary is good to go??  Thanks. 

PVSA does not apply at all.  Your cruise starts and ends outside the US.