Service Dog

[Warm-Water Diver]

Well, actually you are judging.

 

I would imagine that the child might have diabetes or some other issue that you can't see. I know they are training dogs now to be able to scent when blood sugar levels aren't right. For that purpose, size wouldn't matter and a small dog would actually be better. Furthermore, with the mother and son both discouraging attention, that speaks to the dog actually being a service dog. When a service dog is working, you aren't supposed to interact with the animal especially without asking the owner's permission. And a service dog is not required to wear a vest.

 

I used my gut instinct and observations over 3 full at-sea days. Could I be wrong in my assessment. Absolutely! But I don't I was far off my assessment. Too many things missing and very odd/vulgar behavior. I think he was an extremely spoiled "son" and used to get his ways in everything. There are things that I can not and will not post that formed my overall opinion.

 

And remember, I shared my opinion. They are not fact but just that.... opinions :rolleyes:

[luddite]

The very first question they ask is what service/task does your dog provide. Are they allowed to ask that question? t it.

 

I would think that they should be REQUIRED to ask that question.

[Zoey]

I dearly love my 12 year old, little five pound dog, BUT after having to walk her on a leash at 6:30 every morning in the dark, the freezing cold or rain or snow, then go home during lunch to walk her, then walk her a couple more times after I get home in the evening.....that is one of the many reasons I need to take a vacation - to get away from all of that for a week, or maybe more. While at five pounds I could easily carry her in a bag, I would never even want to take her on my vacation.

[ColinIllinois]

A point for the record here: Under the ADA, service dogs are not required to wear a vest or any other form of identification.

 

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Edited April 22, 2016 by ColinIllinois

[punkincc]

Yes, I agree, they should ask that question, and according to the NCL website info posted here, they do ask it. But, the problem as I see it is twofold. Number one, they ask the question, but then do not follow up by asking for any certification for the dog. I don't see anything under the ADA rules that would disallow that. I could state anything I want on the NCL form, "My Fluffy detects seizures", and NCL will simply take my word for it. "You can tell us anything you want, and we won't ask for proof", wink wink. They cannot by law ask me directly what my disability is under the ADA, but actually, if they are asking me what task my dog performs, they are really asking what my disability IS, aren't they?

 

And two, they have decided that a dog who provides "emotional support" is not allowed on the ship. There are some dogs who legitimately do provide what could only be described as emotional support, as in the case of PTSD. The PTSD veteran who has an "emotional support" dog would not be allowed to sail under NCL's guidelines. When asked on the form,"what task does the dog perform?", what other response is there except "emotional support".

 

The simple solution is for the cruiseline to ask for the certification for the dog. I realize there are probably bogus ways of getting an official looking paper, but I would also think that there are National associations that certify the training process and make these certifications, and you either have the proper one or you don't. Simply by asking for a certification, they would perhaps discourage many who thought about taking the family pet and thought they'd just give it a shot.

[MommaBear55]

There are several other rules that are pertinant to service dogs at sea. That cannot be left alone in their cabin. The cabin has to be very well cleaned afterward so allergies will not be triggered in the next passenger. There are also multiple requirements for health certifications that are difficult to get and very expensive.

[NLH Arizona]

What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

 

A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.

 

Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?

 

A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.

[SeaShark]

A point for the record here: Under the ADA, service dogs are not required to wear a vest or any other form of identification.

 

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

Yes, and it should also be pointed out that under the ADA, emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals are NOT considered to be service animals and are therefore NOT covered by ADA regulations.

[ColinIllinois]

Yes, I agree, they should ask that question, and according to the NCL website info posted here, they do ask it. But, the problem as I see it is twofold. Number one, they ask the question, but then do not follow up by asking for any certification for the dog. I don't see anything under the ADA rules that would disallow that. I could state anything I want on the NCL form, "My Fluffy detects seizures", and NCL will simply take my word for it. "You can tell us anything you want, and we won't ask for proof", wink wink. They cannot by law ask me directly what my disability is under the ADA, but actually, if they are asking me what task my dog performs, they are really asking what my disability IS, aren't they?

 

And two, they have decided that a dog who provides "emotional support" is not allowed on the ship. There are some dogs who legitimately do provide what could only be described as emotional support, as in the case of PTSD. The PTSD veteran who has an "emotional support" dog would not be allowed to sail under NCL's guidelines. When asked on the form,"what task does the dog perform?", what other response is there except "emotional support".

 

The simple solution is for the cruiseline to ask for the certification for the dog. I realize there are probably bogus ways of getting an official looking paper, but I would also think that there are National associations that certify the training process and make these certifications, and you either have the proper one or you don't. Simply by asking for a certification, they would perhaps discourage many who thought about taking the family pet and thought they'd just give it a shot.

 

 

As previously stated in this thread, PTSD is covered under the ADA so those dogs are considered working dogs and not emotional support dogs.

[punkincc]

What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

 

A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.

 

Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?

 

A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.

 

 

Well, this is the problem with the ADA. It is ludicrous, IMO, for the ADA to state that service animals need not be certified. There is probably no legitimate service animal who has not been trained and certified. This only shelters those with no disabilities who simply want to carry Fluffy around everywhere they go under the shelter of this guideline.

 

The ADA guideline was probably written with the scenario in mind of someone entering a restaurant or another place of business and is addressing what the employees can say to the person who has entered. Obviously, in that scenario it would be unreasonable to ask the person to produce certification for the dog.

 

And I still say, if you ask what task my dog performs, you are in effect asking what my disability is.

 

Only the POA is US registered, but NCL is a US based company. Do the ADA regulations even apply to NCLs other ships?

Edited April 22, 2016 by punkincc

[NLH Arizona]

SERVICE DOGS

Norwegian Cruise Line accepts service dogs that are trained to perform a specific task. A service dog may be needed for many different conditions, which would be acceptable under the American with Disabilities Act (ADA) guidelines.

 

In accordance with the ADA, Norwegian Cruise Line does NOT accept “Emotional Support” dogs as service dogs, they CANNOT sail.

 

Guests must provide copies of the dog’s current vaccination records that show all shots are up-to-date (including Rabies), as well as a USDA or International Health certificate.

 

Guests are responsible for checking with all ports of call for any special requirements they may have. Guests are responsible for bringing all food, medication and life jacket for the dog.

 

A sand box will be provided.

 

All guests traveling with service animals must book at least two weeks in advance to allow sufficient time to check with each port of call and provide Norwegian Cruise Line with all required documentation.

 

For additional information, call (866) 787-4655 (voice), fax (305) 468-2171, or send an e-mail to accessdesk@ncl.com, or have your travel agent contact us.

 

NCL makes it very clear that emotional support dogs can not sail on their ships, but unfortunately folks lie; it happens on the ships and it happens on land. Until the ADA makes certification a must (which many groups are against) and makes it a crime in all states (in some it is a crime to say a dog is a service dog when it is not), the issue of folks bringing little fluffy where he/she is not allowed will continue.

[punkincc]

As previously stated in this thread, PTSD is covered under the ADA so those dogs are considered working dogs and not emotional support dogs.

 

Yes, but in reality, NCL cannot ask, "what is your disability", in order to receive the response, "PTSD". They only ask the question, "what task does your dog perform?" I don't know what other response most with PTSD would give other than something along the line of "emotional support" thereby disqualifying themselves under NCL's rule. Sort of a catch 22.

 

I suppose the smart ones will just lie and say the dog detects seizures.

Edited April 22, 2016 by punkincc

[Quilting_Cruiser]

Yes, but in reality, NCL cannot ask, "what is your disability", in order to receive the response, "PTSD". They only ask the question, "what task does your dog perform?" I don't know what other response most with PTSD would give other than something along the line of "emotional support" thereby disqualifying themselves under NCL's rule. Sort of a catch 22.

 

I suppose the smart ones will just lie and say the dog detects seizures.

 

There's nothing to stop the person being asked revealing what their disability is if they want to. They shouldn't have to, but it's their information to share. But, rather than that, they can respond with another task their dog is trained for. PTSD dogs do more than provide emotional support.

 

PTSD Dogs are trained to:

 

• Assistance in a medical crisis
  
• Provide treatment related assistance
  
• Assistance in coping with emotional overload
  
• Perform security enhancement tasks
  

 

PTSD Service Dogs can:

 

• help adjust serotonin levels
  
• help lower blood pressure
  
• help with episodes of depression
  
• provide companionship
  
• calm their handler
  
• preventing people from crowding around or rushing up on their handler
  

Edited April 22, 2016 by Quilting_Cruiser

[punkincc]

There's nothing to stop the person being asked revealing what their disability is if they want to. They shouldn't have to, but it's their information to share. But, rather than that, they can respond with another task their dog is trained for. PTSD dogs do more than provide emotional support.

 

PTSD Dogs are trained to:

 

• Assistance in a medical crisis
  
• Provide treatment related assistance
  
• Assistance in coping with emotional overload
  
• Perform security enhancement tasks
  

 

PTSD Service Dogs can:

 

• help adjust serotonin levels
  
• help lower blood pressure
  
• help with episodes of depression
  
• provide companionship
  
• calm their handler
  
• preventing people from crowding around or rushing up on their handler
  

 

 

 

Re the first two items on your list, does the dog have advanced medical training as well? Or is it just an "alert" the dog provides should a "medical crisis" occur, "bark bark". For the 4th one, has the dog completed a police or military type program for dogs, or is "security enhancement" just a growl and bareing of the teeth?;)

 

The other 6 or so items seem to all fall under the "provide emotional support" category.

Edited April 22, 2016 by punkincc

[Quilting_Cruiser]

Re the first two items on your list, does the dog have advanced medical training as well? Or is it just an "alert" the dog provides should a "medical crisis" occur, "bark bark". For the 4th one, has the dog completed a police or military type program for dogs, or is "security enhancement" just a growl and bareing of the teeth?;)

 

The other 6 or so items seem to all fall under the "provide emotional support" category.

 

I was simply pointing out that when asked what tasks the dog has been trained to do, there are answers other than "provide emotional support" in response to your comment that you didn't know what other answer someone would give if asked what tasks the dog is trained to perform. I don't have a PTSD dog and don't train them so can't answer your questions other than to say service dogs are not taught to be aggressive and to growl and bare their teeth at people.

 

You may believe most of this qualifies as "providing emotional support" but as several of us have repeatedly pointed out, a PTSD service dog is not an emotional support animal. It is a working service animal as recognized by the ADA.

 

BTW, it's not "my" list. It's from an organization the trains service animals.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Quilting_Cruiser

[punkincc]

I don't have a PTSD dog and don't train them so can't answer your questions other than to say service dogs are not taught to be aggressive and to growl and bare their teeth at people.

 

...............a PTSD service dog is not an emotional support animal. It is a working service animal as recognized by the ADA.

 

BTW, it's not "my" list. It's from an organization the trains service animals.

 

 

I agree that a dog who is PTSD trained and certified is a working service animal as recognized by the ADA. I think a person with PTSD who has a trained and certified animal should be able to cruise. What I am pointing out, is that some of these "tasks", if listed on NCL's questionnaire, ( in order to avoid listing those which relate back to emotional support ) would leave NCL scratching their heads and wondering what "performs security enhancement tasks" has to do with needing a service dog due to a disability. My doggie may make me feel more secure, but that does not qualify me to bring her on a cruise.

 

It just seems to me that although NCL can't come right out and ask about the nature of a disability, the response makes it pretty clear what it is, in most instances. I don't see anyway for a person with PTSD to get around this ban on emotional support dogs without just disclosing the disability upfront, and then hoping NCL is smart enough to differentiate between this and Aunt Susie who gets really anxious if she has to leave Snookie at home. Most anything else on this list, NCL is going to classify as "emotional support, which it is.

[Quilting_Cruiser]

Re the first two items on your list, does the dog have advanced medical training as well? Or is it just an "alert" the dog provides should a "medical crisis" occur, "bark bark". For the 4th one, has the dog completed a police or military type program for dogs, or is "security enhancement" just a growl and bareing of the teeth?;)

 

The other 6 or so items seem to all fall under the "provide emotional support" category.

 

 

 

Here's a robust list of what those categories include. Lots of options for answering the question from NCL and answers to your question about what it is they do in certain situations: Tasks to mitigate certain disabling illnesses classified as mental impairments under the Americans with Disabilities Act

[calmpets]

For what it's worth, my husband is the ADA compliance guy for the city we live in, and PTSD dogs are considered service dogs.

[bobg529]

There are always people around who will try to game the system. Rules are set to weed out as many scammers as possible and usually succeed, but once in a while someone will slip through the cracks. There are a lot of crazy things that go on in today's world that years ago would have been unheard of, but we are all so deathly afraid of being declared politically incorrect that we shut our mouths and let it go on. I applaud NCL for setting a reasonable policy in regards to service animals and encourage them to enforce the rules they set forth. We don't need MORE rules, we just need enforcement of the rules that are in place, and not just on ships at sea either.

[punkincc]

For what it's worth, my husband is the ADA compliance guy for the city we live in, and PTSD dogs are considered service dogs.

 

 

Out of curiosity, what is your city's stance, and the ADA's if known, on the apparent "don't ask, don't tell" policy when it comes to certification. Surely they are aware, or maybe not, of how easy it is to obtain a false certification. Although I don't know why most would bother to get one, as apparently documentation cannot be asked for under ADA guidelines, making it very easy for anyone to provide a stock answer at the door and gain entry with the pooch recently adopted at the pound.

[k9x8]

You aren't required to prove its a service dog. On the other hand, NCL can't prove its not a service dog.

 

However, the handler of any so called service animal that disrupts, soils, or otherwise misbehaves can be told to leave the premise.

 

Remember, too, that businesses might be hesitant to confront a faker, but nothing stops me from doing so. That 4 month old chihuahua in your big ol' purse is a service dog? Really?

[CalLuvsCrusingToo]

I think most of us can agree, if the dog is a Truly needed "working" Service dog? We don't have a prob with that.

 

Its the phoneys trying to get away with something.

We see them All the time......at your restaurants, stores, shopping centers.

Its like these dog owners, thinks every store is a Petco? :mad:

 

First time I saw a dog on a cruise..... was an older man Walking his dog on a leash thru the buffet! The dog is barking like crazy, which makes 100 of us turn to look....Where did the dog come from, & whats it doing next to our food?

 

Next day I see the same small dog in the arms of a middle aged man.

He carried the dog into a restaurant, and it appears they gave him a table in the back.

 

I only saw the dog being carried after the first days debacle.

I think they had a talk with him.

 

Do we think it was the real deal? Doubt it.

 

But main concern being the dog shouldn't be walked thru where everyone is attempting to eat. And we appreciated the Crew telling them they can't do that.

That was an eyeopener.

[Wavesprite]

There's no reason why a real service dog shouldn't be walked through the buffet or is in a restaurant. There's much more likely a chance of some sort of contamination from a human hand, sneeze, head of hair, then a dog that is below the counter level hurting anyone's food......

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CasinoCruzGirl]

It is becoming more acceptable to bring your pet to some retail stores. Here is a list of 33 stores that allow dogs not just service dogs but your family pet dog.

 

http://barkpost.com/dog-friendly-stores/

[IDKaren]

There are always people around who will try to game the system. Rules are set to weed out as many scammers as possible and usually succeed, but once in a while someone will slip through the cracks. There are a lot of crazy things that go on in today's world that years ago would have been unheard of, but we are all so deathly afraid of being declared politically incorrect that we shut our mouths and let it go on. I applaud NCL for setting a reasonable policy in regards to service animals and encourage them to enforce the rules they set forth. We don't need MORE rules, we just need enforcement of the rules that are in place, and not just on ships at sea either.

 

Ahhh Finally the voice of reason😎