Celebrity wipes out Ketchikan dock

[moki'smommy]

http://www.ktva.com/video-celebrity-...ikan-dock-501/

 

Not sure when Wonder is due to be there......

Edited June 4, 2016 by moki'smommy

[Shmoo here]

http://www.ktva.com/video-celebrity-...ikan-dock-501/

 

Not sure when Wonder is due to be there......

 

The link doesn't work for me.

 

The Wonder is supposed to be in Ketchikan today (Jun 4) from 11:15 am - 7:45 pm.

[moki'smommy]

OK, I'll try it again.

 

http://www.ktva.com/video-celebrity-cruise-ship-slams-into-ketchikan-dock-501/

[Shmoo here]

OK' date=' I'll try it again.

 

http://www.ktva.com/video-celebrity-cruise-ship-slams-into-ketchikan-dock-501/[/quote']

 

Got it that time. Not sure why the first time doesn't link.

[xlxo]

The damage went to dock 3.... the Wonder uses Dock 1 to the East. The Wonder shows up on Saturdays when there are just two or three ships in town. Dock 3 will generally be emptied or shuffled.

 

With dock 3 not working.... the ships will need to be juggled or tendered on other days of the week.

Edited June 5, 2016 by xlxo

[chengkp75]

Hardly "wiped out" the dock, they took down the walkway between dolphins. The dolphins have ladders from the water, so the line handlers will need to be transported to those two dolphins by boat. It will require more expense to dock there, and more line handlers, since those on the two affected dolphins can't range up and down the dock to handle other lines.

[moki'smommy]

Hardly "wiped out" the dock, they took down the walkway between dolphins. The dolphins have ladders from the water, so the line handlers will need to be transported to those two dolphins by boat. It will require more expense to dock there, and more line handlers, since those on the two affected dolphins can't range up and down the dock to handle other lines.

 

You are obviously the expert as to what happened. What I saw was a large metal structure collapsing into the water. What I read was a news report saying there was 2 million dollars in damage....and at that I wondered how they knew that so quickly. The news report said that the ship was "damaged," which it may or may not be. To my eye, it looked more like a big scratch, but again, I'm certainly not an expert on anything having to do with ships, structure, etc. And I'm seeing posted footage, not a real inspection of either ship or dock.

Edited June 5, 2016 by moki'smommy

[PopFla]

Damage to the ship is a bit more than a "scratch". See the photo in the attached link. It takes a pretty hard hit to tear the steel hull of a ship.

 

http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Cruise-ship-crash-dock-damaged-in-Ketchikan-during-high-winds-381850581.html

[moki'smommy]

That is wicked! Looks a whole lot worse in the close up than in the film showing the dock area. It rather reminds me of the first time the Magic went thru the Panama Canal--there was a chunk of steel "removed" when she hit the side which was later mounted and auctioned off for charity.

 

So....seems I overstated the damage to the dock and understated the damage to the ship. Does that mean it comes out even? :D

[chengkp75]

Damage to the ship is a bit more than a "scratch". See the photo in the attached link. It takes a pretty hard hit to tear the steel hull of a ship.

 

http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Cruise-ship-crash-dock-damaged-in-Ketchikan-during-high-winds-381850581.html

 

Actually it doesn't. That's different (close up) from the original video, and is pretty indicative of a single point hit. The steel in that area of the hull is most likely about 8-10mm (1/4"-3/8") thick. What determines whether the steel fractures or merely dents is the presence or absence of framing in close proximity to the impact. Framing creates a "fixed" point, and the steel can only deform from this spot, but if the strike is spaced away from framing, it has more area to spread the deformation energy over, so it only dents.

 

That can be repaired as a temporary (until drydock) repair using a 1 meter square patch which can be welded from the outside while the ship is at any dock. It looks a lot worse than it is, but they will have to remove the insulation and any cabin walls in the way of the repair to ensure an adequate fire watch.

[Ex techie]

Hardly "wiped out" the dock, they took down the walkway between dolphins. The dolphins have ladders from the water, so the line handlers will need to be transported to those two dolphins by boat. It will require more expense to dock there, and more line handlers, since those on the two affected dolphins can't range up and down the dock to handle other lines.

 

Chief,

 

Wouldn't a hit like that not only disturb the pilings that make up the dolphin, and make weaker?

 

This image appears to show one of the pilings of this specific dolphin torn away?

(third piling from the left)

 

 

Wouldn't that reduce the capacity of the dock to support a vessel mored against it in strong winds from Starboard if docked to port side?

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Actually it doesn't. That's different (close up) from the original video, and is pretty indicative of a single point hit. The steel in that area of the hull is most likely about 8-10mm (1/4"-3/8") thick. What determines whether the steel fractures or merely dents is the presence or absence of framing in close proximity to the impact. Framing creates a "fixed" point, and the steel can only deform from this spot, but if the strike is spaced away from framing, it has more area to spread the deformation energy over, so it only dents.

 

That can be repaired as a temporary (until drydock) repair using a 1 meter square patch which can be welded from the outside while the ship is at any dock. It looks a lot worse than it is, but they will have to remove the insulation and any cabin walls in the way of the repair to ensure an adequate fire watch.

 

She also appears to have more damage than a single point hit.

 

She was holed here:

 

 

Another to the left above the red box, and the larger gash here:

 

Also I would expect as you can see the welds in the plates have deformed, there is a chance they have cracks and will also need to be re welded.

 

I agree a temporary patch can be put in place, but whether it is just a short term fix until she dry docks, or permanent scar, I don't know.

 

ex techie

Edited June 7, 2016 by Ex techie

[Ex techie]

Here is a close up of the pilling of this dolphin:

 

 

Looks pretty wiped out with the ships hull visible through it!

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Snips from the Associated Press.

 

Ketchikan Assistant City Manager Dave Martin said it is unclear how long the berth will be closed because it is too early to say how badly the dock is damaged.

 

"When (things) first happened, they really looked bad, and I'm not saying it looks good," Martin said. "But I think that it's too early on to make that call. We simply don't know."

 

Until the dock is repaired, the port will have to go back to its pre-2007 operations, when there were only two berths, Corporon said.

 

"The simple answer is that we're going to have to have them anchor out and tender (passengers) in," Corporon said.

 

More information on the extent of the damage to Berth 3 is expected next week.

 

 

http://www.krbd.org/2016/06/03/celebrity-cruise-ship-infinity-hits-damages-ketchikan-dock/

Ketchikan Ketchikan Ports and Harbors Director Steve Corporon said damage to one of the Southeast Alaska community’s four cruise-ship berths totaled $2 million to $3 million.

 

He said a barge that acts as a dock and at least two of its three mooring dolphins were damaged.

 

ex techie

[chengkp75]

There does appear to be one piling in the dolphin that has torn partially away. This wasn't visible in the original video, as it concentrated on the next dolphin along. Freestanding dolphins like this are capable of taking "hard landings" from ships. They are anchored at the bottom, so have some "spring" to them at the top to absorb energy.

 

Damage to this particular dolphin may or may not affect the ability to dock ships there. It appears that much of the ship is alongside a pier, and the three dolphins are for the after part of the ship. There are two more dolphins aft of the damaged one, and depending on the length of the ship and where the mooring lines need to be placed, they may get by without using this dolphin. Removing its load bearing area is one concern, structural engineers would need to determine the loading on the remaining dolphins, but there is always a safety factor in the design. It will hinder docking operations as the line handlers will need to be brought to the after dolphins by boat, but that is not altogether unusual.

 

I can't tell from the small photo whether the ship was holed at that location as well, but if so, again, another even smaller patch would repair. As bad as all the lengthy scraping looks, there is nothing visible in the photos to show that framing was damaged (in fact, you can see where the deformed plating comes back to original at clearly defined vertical areas where the framing is behind. None of those deformations, with the exception of the larger hole, show any extremely sharp deformation, which is when cracking of welds happens. In fact, the presence of a "Panama bitt" at the extreme right of the photo is indicative of extra framing in the area, and this is also borne out by the lack of plating deformation under this bitt. I don't see any sharp deformation of any seam or butt weld of the plating, so I would not expect any cracking there. Modern welds are as strong and flexible as the base steel they join. The presence of the porthole near the damaged area will complicate the repair a little, finding a good area of "fair" metal to patch into. The denting all along the upper "scrape stripe" will be found to be acceptable to class, and will become the owner's decision whether to renew before drydocking, or ever. Most of the lower scrape area forward of the porthole is similar. Cruise lines like to have clean appearing ships, so I would expect that the damage will be repaired in drydock (next scheduled), but many cargo ships would patch the two holes and leave the rest for the remainder of the ship's life.

[ArthurUSCG]

I don't see any damage done to the ship beyond the skin. If you say the buckling/crease go thru the framing. If the port hole was not there, would be an easy patch job. Now, they have to cut the patch around the porthole. It still a simple enough repair that can we done in a few hours.

 

I have seen some cargo ships that look like patch jobs and what was not patched was dented. It is common out side of the cruise ship industry.

 

It is expensive to get the construction equipment in place to replace the pilling for the dolphins. Especially if it is not scheduled and is an emergency repair. A good chunk of the $2mil is getting the equipment and supplies to the site.

[Ex techie]

There does appear to be one piling in the dolphin that has torn partially away. This wasn't visible in the original video, as it concentrated on the next dolphin along. Freestanding dolphins like this are capable of taking "hard landings" from ships. They are anchored at the bottom, so have some "spring" to them at the top to absorb energy.

 

Damage to this particular dolphin may or may not affect the ability to dock ships there. It appears that much of the ship is alongside a pier, and the three dolphins are for the after part of the ship. There are two more dolphins aft of the damaged one, and depending on the length of the ship and where the mooring lines need to be placed, they may get by without using this dolphin. Removing its load bearing area is one concern, structural engineers would need to determine the loading on the remaining dolphins, but there is always a safety factor in the design. It will hinder docking operations as the line handlers will need to be brought to the after dolphins by boat, but that is not altogether unusual.

 

I can't tell from the small photo whether the ship was holed at that location as well, but if so, again, another even smaller patch would repair. As bad as all the lengthy scraping looks, there is nothing visible in the photos to show that framing was damaged (in fact, you can see where the deformed plating comes back to original at clearly defined vertical areas where the framing is behind. None of those deformations, with the exception of the larger hole, show any extremely sharp deformation, which is when cracking of welds happens. In fact, the presence of a "Panama bitt" at the extreme right of the photo is indicative of extra framing in the area, and this is also borne out by the lack of plating deformation under this bitt. I don't see any sharp deformation of any seam or butt weld of the plating, so I would not expect any cracking there. Modern welds are as strong and flexible as the base steel they join. The presence of the porthole near the damaged area will complicate the repair a little, finding a good area of "fair" metal to patch into. The denting all along the upper "scrape stripe" will be found to be acceptable to class, and will become the owner's decision whether to renew before drydocking, or ever. Most of the lower scrape area forward of the porthole is similar. Cruise lines like to have clean appearing ships, so I would expect that the damage will be repaired in drydock (next scheduled), but many cargo ships would patch the two holes and leave the rest for the remainder of the ship's life.

 

From this angle and I have zoomed in on the small picture so it is pixelated, it does look like there is a hole:

 

As you say, without the Panama bitt being there, and the additional framing and being a strengthened area, maybe the damage would have been more severe.

 

ex techie

[chengkp75]

From this angle and I have zoomed in on the small picture so it is pixelated, it does look like there is a hole:

 

As you say, without the Panama bitt being there, and the additional framing and being a strengthened area, maybe the damage would have been more severe.

 

ex techie

 

I'm starting to believe that those "two" holes are the same one. I think the one you blew up is the same area as the area shown in the photo with the red box on the dock. I think the paint has been scraped to get a good look and to prep for the temporary patch.

 

The relationship between the hole, the porthole and the Panama bitt is a bit too similar in my mind to be two different areas.

[Ex techie]

I'm starting to believe that those "two" holes are the same one. I think the one you blew up is the same area as the area shown in the photo with the red box on the dock. I think the paint has been scraped to get a good look and to prep for the temporary patch.

 

The relationship between the hole, the porthole and the Panama bitt is a bit too similar in my mind to be two different areas.

 

Now that you say that, It actually does look like it could be the same area, with a after and later photo.

 

Truck1 on the DIS has stated he has seen 3 holes from photo's he has seen.

Tonka's skipper also said that "I do not see a hull plate joint in the photo. In theopen gash I see the frame severely bent/distorted and the point where the frame was welded to the hull plating has been pulled/torn away." on the DIS.

 

Just using all sources, and some will be right and some wrong. Until the CG release a report, I guess we will not know.

 

ex techie

[chengkp75]

Now that you say that, It actually does look like it could be the same area, with a after and later photo.

 

Truck1 on the DIS has stated he has seen 3 holes from photo's he has seen.

Tonka's skipper also said that "I do not see a hull plate joint in the photo. In theopen gash I see the frame severely bent/distorted and the point where the frame was welded to the hull plating has been pulled/torn away." on the DIS.

 

Just using all sources, and some will be right and some wrong. Until the CG release a report, I guess we will not know.

 

ex techie

 

I'm not sure whether that is rolled up hull plating or a bent frame. Even if it is the frame, it is over such a small area that they will just crop out the bent section and insert a new piece. Still a very simple and common repair.

[Loonbeam]

The ship is sailing and last I heard not expected to miss any dates, so all in all the damage cannot have been significant enough to be considered of any risk.

[moki'smommy]

The fact that the ship could be repaired sufficiently to allow her to pass a Coast Guard inspection and continue on her planned route does not mean that the damage was insignificant. It only means that it was repairable.

 

Several experienced experts were able to educate the rest of us here as to how the matter will likely be handled. And they were right--temporary repairs at the dock which will suffice until a permanent repair is arranged in dry dock.

[iceman93]

I wonder if the comments by the assistant city manager are setting them up to secure even more money from Celebrity down the line. If many cruise ships need to tender rather than dock at Ketchikan, that is going to affect shore excursion and simply food/beverage revenue in the city. Fewer excursions can be sold, and fewer guests will go ashore just to wander around, shop, and dine.

[Ex techie]

I wonder if the comments by the assistant city manager are setting them up to secure even more money from Celebrity down the line. If many cruise ships need to tender rather than dock at Ketchikan, that is going to affect shore excursion and simply food/beverage revenue in the city. Fewer excursions can be sold, and fewer guests will go ashore just to wander around, shop, and dine.

 

No mention of economic impact, so unless you know different, that is the estimated cost of repairs most likely based on the cost of installing the affected dolphins that were hit?

 

ex techie

[chengkp75]

The fact that the ship could be repaired sufficiently to allow her to pass a Coast Guard inspection and continue on her planned route does not mean that the damage was insignificant. It only means that it was repairable.

 

Several experienced experts were able to educate the rest of us here as to how the matter will likely be handled. And they were right--temporary repairs at the dock which will suffice until a permanent repair is arranged in dry dock.

 

Just a fine gradation to your comment. A "permanent" repair, to the satisfaction of all regulatory agencies will be accomplished while in service, I would expect within a week or so, in Vancouver. Whether the company decides to do further "cosmetic" repairs when in drydock is up to them. Cruise lines do tend to take out the "dimples" more than other ship owners.