Noticing increasing number of "Service" animals!!!

[NLH Arizona]

IMO, the safety officer and environmental officer aboard any ship should both be trained in ADA requirements for foreign flagged cruise ships, and equipped to not only monitor service animals, but document via video the behavior of these animals.

Then remove the owners of the animal if they blatantly endorse and encourage behavior that is not within the regulations.

 

With such evidence, it would not be hard for shoreside to contest any complaints or legal action.

 

ex techie

I know if I see any of these behaviors that are against health codes; such as, sitting on a table, pooping in pubic, etc., I hope I have my phone with me, because I will take a picture and send it not only to the cruise line, but to the health department in the first US port of call.

[Elaine5715]

Except a dog that detects diabetic issues is always working as is a seizure alert animal

 

Not actually true. These dogs go "off duty" to have a little doggie down time , eat, get some exercise and playtime. More specifically, service dogs are not fed in public and are not food rewarded. Claiming a dog is trained in seizure detection or diabetic alerts are the two most used for fraudulent service dogs. Since proof can not be demanded that the owner has either health issue and since if one doesn't have either, you don't have to worry that the dog would fail at their job. Unlike a seeing eye dog, if you strap on a harness, most dogs will run you into everything and it is way harder to pretend to be blind.

[BeagleOne]

While diabetes alert dogs do tend to be of the smaller lap dog size, since they frequently need to be close to the person's mouth to detect the ketones given off by a sugar low

 

Just a small correction, the ketones come from a too-high blood sugar, not too low (diabetic ketoacidosis).

[Elaine5715]

Having worked in human services for more than 40 years with adults with special needs and diagnosis of mental illnesses, exactly 1 client has a service dog. The vast majority of these folks have such low incomes that the extra costs for an animal is problematic. Studies have always shown that pets are beneficial and that is true. Most commonly, my clients have cats since they require less care than a dog but they would never venture in public with a cherished pet because the stress of keeping their pet safe would put their anxiety levels over the edge.

[Ex techie]

I know if I see any of these behaviors that are against health codes; such as, sitting on a table, pooping in pubic, etc., I hope I have my phone with me, because I will take a picture and send it not only to the cruise line, but to the health department in the first US port of call.

 

I would too!

But also to the CDC, and any news organizations in your area.

The more these violations are reported against the vocal few petitioning abusers, the better.

 

ex techie

[NLH Arizona]

I would too!

But also to the CDC, and any news organizations in your area.

The more these violations are reported against the vocal few petitioning abusers, the better.

 

ex techie

I have a question you may be able to answer. I'm all for a national registry (like handicap plates/placards) for service animals, but in my research I've found that some reputable organizations are strongly against doing this. They sight confidentially, but I don't see how it is any less confidential than having a service dog, since no one would know the person's handicap, other than it would be documented at say the DMV and when asked, they would just show the card that wouldn't have any private information on it. Your thoughts. It sure would stop all these folks from taking fluffy everywhere and make it easier for those with true service dogs, since they wouldn't have to worry about these untrained dogs interfering with them.

[CPT Trips]

There are more issues than confidentiality. But more important to me is that people using service dogs day-to-day aren't out there demanding all these certifications. Maybe the scammers we see aren't a big deal to people that benefit from a service animal? Maybe they think a certification process, if it is to be effective, won't be simple and easy? I'm not sure that we TABs have the insight and experience needed.

[Elaine5715]

I have a question you may be able to answer. I'm all for a national registry (like handicap plates/placards) for service animals, but in my research I've found that some reputable organizations are strongly against doing this. They sight confidentially, but I don't see how it is any less confidential than having a service dog, since no one would know the person's handicap, other than it would be documented at say the DMV and when asked, they would just show the card that wouldn't have any private information on it. Your thoughts. It sure would stop all these folks from taking fluffy everywhere and make it easier for those with true service dogs, since they wouldn't have to worry about these untrained dogs interfering with them.

 

 

The same organizations that cite confidentiality are amazingly hypocritical. They will be standing next to a client lecturing you about confidentiality while wearing a badge that announces in large letters that they work for a mental health organization. There is no reason at all that service dogs can't be registered during the local licencing session with verification from a vet.

[Flatbush Flyer]

So, when all is said and done (with so much gray area and inevitable cheating vs legitimate "service,"), I'll be sticking with cruise lines that prohibit all animals internationally and/or have tons of "hoop jumping" for permission at US start/end ports.

Same with smoking: count me in for those cruise lines with the strictest restrictions - both policy and space.

[NLH Arizona]

The same organizations that cite confidentiality are amazingly hypocritical. They will be standing next to a client lecturing you about confidentiality while wearing a badge that announces in large letters that they work for a mental health organization. There is no reason at all that service dogs can't be registered during the local licencing session with verification from a vet.

I don't think verification from the vet is the right way to go about it, I think it should be from a medical professional, just like handicap placards/plates are.

[sparks1093]

So, when all is said and done (with so much gray area and inevitable cheating vs legitimate "service,"), I'll be sticking with cruise lines that prohibit all animals internationally and/or have tons of "hoop jumping" for permission at US start/end ports.

Same with smoking: count me in for those cruise lines with the strictest restrictions - both policy and space.

 

Personally I'm not going to let it bother me or make me adjust my vacation plans. Smoking onboard most cruise ships now is limited to the point that I can avoid it easily enough.

[Elaine5715]

I don't think verification from the vet is the right way to go about it, I think it should be from a medical professional, just like handicap placards/plates are.

 

Possibly...I just see the HUGE fraud with the fly by "docs" who sign the "medical weed" cards for $30 a puff..

[6boysnana]

I had read the long recent thread on "service animals". I think it was on HAL.

The cruiser couple who had fluffy in a stroller and claimed it was a service dog cruised a bunch and played that card with threats of pulling their cruise dollars if confronted.

I just hate it when a pooch has a better cruise wardrobe than me.

 

6boysnana

[CPT Trips]

There are more issues than simply confidentiality when it comes to trying to certify a human/dog service partnership. In reality, it's not as simple as getting a parking permit from DMV.

 

 

There are a whole host of issues that need to be addressed in developing a system to certify service dogs.

What entity issues the "card?"

What training is required for the dog?

Who is an acceptable trainer?

How is that training documented?

Who, what entity, assures the dog is properly trained?

How are both the trainers and those assuring proper training "policed?"

Are these things done on a national or state-by-state basis?

How will this system deal with those people that train the dog themselves?

 

Those were the issues I recall from a work group on the issue. By and large, the number and type of abuses discussed here, simply don't resonate with those that use service animals.

[BlueRiband]

How can registration be a "confidentiality" issue? The very fact that somebody is out in public with a real or alleged "service dog" is a de facto announcement that they have a health condition that requires the assistance of a dog to go about daily living.

[Ex techie]

I have a question you may be able to answer. I'm all for a national registry (like handicap plates/placards) for service animals, but in my research I've found that some reputable organizations are strongly against doing this. They sight confidentially, but I don't see how it is any less confidential than having a service dog, since no one would know the person's handicap, other than it would be documented at say the DMV and when asked, they would just show the card that wouldn't have any private information on it. Your thoughts. It sure would stop all these folks from taking fluffy everywhere and make it easier for those with true service dogs, since they wouldn't have to worry about these untrained dogs interfering with them.

 

Sorry, I have no more insight into this that you do.

I thought however that handicap plates/placards were dealt with on a state by state basis with some state accepting them as proof from other states.

 

Confidentiality IMO is just an excuse to stop this happening. And IMO by the few that are abusing the system.

 

As you say the DMV may know, Social Services may know, you maybe in receipt of government assistance etc.

 

It's the vocalists and extreme rights protestors IMO.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

There are more issues than simply confidentiality when it comes to trying to certify a human/dog service partnership. In reality, it's not as simple as getting a parking permit from DMV.

 

 

There are a whole host of issues that need to be addressed in developing a system to certify service dogs.

What entity issues the "card?" The United States Department of Justice and Civil Right Division.

What training is required for the dog? That would have to be defined and judged by professional trainers. There will be organizations already of animal trainers who can set the training standards.

Who is an acceptable trainer? One who is certified by the USDJCRD

How is that training documented? By the certified trainers. Who are inspected.

Who, what entity, assures the dog is properly trained? The training organization assures the training through mandate from the USDJCRD guidelines.

How are both the trainers and those assuring proper training "policed?" The USDJCRD make inspections. Just as every other public service is inspected.

Are these things done on a national or state-by-state basis? National, to ensure compliance and nationwide acceptance of out of state registration.

How will this system deal with those people that train the dog themselves? That dog would have to be taken to an approved USDJCRD center and assessed.

Only then would the animal be accredited into the system.

 

Those were the issues I recall from a work group on the issue. By and large, the number and type of abuses discussed here, simply don't resonate with those that use service animals.

 

Answers in RED

 

It is not insurmountable, or really a challenging thing to set up.

The major challenge is getting all states to work together and agree a system.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

How can registration be a "confidentiality" issue? The very fact that somebody is out in public with a real or alleged "service dog" is a de facto announcement that they have a health condition that requires the assistance of a dog to go about daily living.

 

Yep! And those with comfort animals in disguise as service animals are usually too quick to reveal their need and why in a defensive and offensive manner!

Those with a real need know the process and have decorum.

 

ex techie

Edited August 9, 2016 by Ex techie

[CPT Trips]

Answers in RED

 

It is not insurmountable, or really a challenging thing to set up.

The major challenge is getting all states to work together and agree a system.

 

ex techie

 

You must like bureaucracy. ;) Any effective certification is more involved than getting a parking placard, at least NJ's system. And the burden is put on people with disabilities because of a relative handful of scammers.

[Elaine5715]

Yep! And those with comfort animals in disguise as service animals are usually too quick to reveal their need and why in a defensive and offensive manner!

Those with a real need know the process and have decorum.

 

ex techie

 

Saw a woman at the grocery store on Sunday with her dog barely leash training. When the store manager approached and made the mistake of saying "I am sorry, Ma'am but only service animals are allowed". She said "she is a service dog" so he walked away and shrugged his shoulders. Another customer asked her what the dog did and she said and direct quote, "I'd never get my )"$#%# ass of bed but if I don't, she will pissed over everything" and laughed ..

[Ex techie]

You must like bureaucracy. ;) Any effective certification is more involved than getting a parking placard, at least NJ's system. And the burden is put on people with disabilities because of a relative handful of scammers.

 

I do not like bureaucracy at all! I hate it!

But unless you establish a system that is credible, and that does involve a certain amount of bureaucracy unfortunately, it cannot happen.

 

You say a handful of scammers. I respectfully disagree. And not just because of cruises.

I see more and more people in stores with "service animals" that are actually either pets or comfort animals than probably actual service animals! That is absurd! And it isn't just the older generation, the younger millennials caught on quick, and now they need their in a purse dog for their "safe space" (LMAO!) recovery after incurring a minor infraction at collage, or when going out to stores, restaurants, or any other place they may be told their behavior is unacceptable.

Obviously not ALL MILLENNIALS.

 

ex techie

Edited August 9, 2016 by Ex techie
SP

[Ex techie]

Saw a woman at the grocery store on Sunday with her dog barely leash training. When the store manager approached and made the mistake of saying "I am sorry, Ma'am but only service animals are allowed". She said "she is a service dog" so he walked away and shrugged his shoulders. Another customer asked her what the dog did and she said and direct quote, "I'd never get my )"$#%# ass of bed but if I don't, she will pissed over everything" and laughed ..

 

OMG!......

 

No shame. There must be nothing left in that woman.

 

ex techie

[NLH Arizona]

Saw a woman at the grocery store on Sunday with her dog barely leash training. When the store manager approached and made the mistake of saying "I am sorry, Ma'am but only service animals are allowed". She said "she is a service dog" so he walked away and shrugged his shoulders. Another customer asked her what the dog did and she said and direct quote, "I'd never get my )"$#%# ass of bed but if I don't, she will pissed over everything" and laughed ..

I was in a chain restaurant in my town and a woman came in with her two friends and her small dog. They sat down at a table, the dog got his own chair and the lady fed the dog from her plate. I said something to the server that it wasn't a service dog, because service dogs don't act like that and she said, that they were afraid to say anything because they could get sued. I live in a retirement community and you would not believe how many dogs are brought to the grocery stores, banks, CVS, etc. A woman use to bring her dog to one of the association meetings of my community, letting the dog sit on the chair, and I asked someone about the dog and they said it was her emotional support dog. I called the HOA and ask why they were allowing emotional service dogs into public buildings when they are not covered by the ADA...well, that stopped that from happening pretty quick.

[CapeCodCruiser]

Other issues aside, those of you in favor of a national registry -

 

Who's going to pay for it? That's just what this country needs is another bloated bureaucratic agency at taxpayers expense.

[sparks1093]

The easiest thing would be for Congress to redefine some terms in the law, but that's not likely to happen before I reach my bazillionth birthday.