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Inquiries at sea......by straight folks


RMS Olympic
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During introductions, or when we get asked the "brothers" question (we tend to get "twins"), I'll say outright, unless it seems physically perilous, "And this is my husband..." Yes, I live in San Francisco, but as long as I'm not asked by an obvious yahoo, I present as married everywhere. We went roller-coastering in Texas, and when we got asked the "twins" question by a middle-aged woman working at Six Flags and by teenaged girls at Schlitterbahn, saying "No, we're married" brought gratifyingly positive responses.

 

I don't know how things will change in the era of Trump/Pence (not for the better, I'm thinking) but so far, I'm thinking that acting as though I'm proud of my man (which I am) has its rewards. And, after all, every time a man says, "This is my wife," he's shamelessly announcing he's straight. (Or bi, in which case he may pop up later in the steam room.)

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  • 5 months later...
We all have different comfort levels, I understand. But if someone is comfortable in asking personal questions to someone they don't know or if their curiousity justifies asking questions in earshot of others....then are there any questions that cross the line?

If a man seated two seats away from a women at a bar on a ship asks " well what kind of sex do you like?" Is his curiousity justification to ask? Because in my opinion, asking me if I am gay is the same thing? If all the people at the bar stared at the women to await her response.....should she answer, should she not let it offend her? Might she feel discomfort the next time she walks into that bar and sees the same people?

Does it come down to its all determined by the questioner? Is all fair game. Is it me who is in the wrong for being offended ?

I could understand asking questions in private once you spend time getting to know someone, but out in a public setting still seems inappropriate to me....

Very intelligent post, and very interesting point you have raised here. I am different in all types of ways from "normal society". So sometimes, you have to put things in perspective for people to understand. This one girl I work with (who is short, wide hips, and wears glasses), had a hard time understanding why some questions and comments were offensive to me. So I had to pull her to to the side and told her "it would be the equivalent as someone always referring to you as 'the girl with glasses' or 'the fat chick', (or if your amputee mother was constantly identified as 'the lady with one leg'), as if YOU are the anomaly in a society of 'defaults'---how would you like that--wouldn't that make you feel like crap?" I was warm and nice about it, and she "got it"--she later sent me a personal note thanking me for taking time to enlighten her.

I have the benefit of being a solo traveller. Never been asked about my sexuality, but I am usually accused of being a crew member. I've been verbally abuses for it too! Quite funny though.

Wow, that is funny. Don't know if that would be a compliment or an insult. ;)

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It's been a while since I started this thread......just reread each post.

Originally posted prior to the Jade cruise last Nov, I sailed prepared for possible questions "...which came in the form of a statement. " if you are gay it doesn't matter to us was the format". I chose not to respond, but the statement was repeated once a day every day. I didn't fly off the handle but internally thought if it doesn't matter why ask. One evening a straight married couple I had met asked if they could join me for dinner in the specialty restaurant....I said yes. But as the meal began the statement was made.....you know what's wrong with this ship...too many ******s on board. On the 4th time he made the comment I picked myself up....handed the server a big tip and walked out. The next day I was confronted by the couple who remarked on how rude I was to just walk out on them....I just walked away. So now this Sept I return to the Ncl Escape probably no more prepared for rudeness, but as I am refusing to have my birthday cruise negatively impacted by others I may not be polite. I will try to keep these posts in the back of my mind.

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I can't imagine still sitting there after the first time that comment was made at dinner let alone waiting for the fourth time. My response would have been, "This table has one too many homophobic bigots for me" before leaving. I had to look back at the original question from the beginning of this thread to refresh my memory of what the exact topic was. In most instances, it would be rude to bluntly ask a stranger what their sexuality is, regardless of what it is thought to be. "None of your business" is a fine response if you plan on not speaking to these people any longer. A less confrontive response might be, "I don't think I know you well enough to discuss that" or something of that nature.

 

Regarding the repeated question in the form of a statement you mention in your recent post, I agree that it is strange to repeatedly pry if it doesn't matter, because clearly, then, it does. Some folks may be genuinely curious and mean no harm. Others may be *******es. Hopefully you can ignore the latter without letting it ruin your experiences. An early response might have been, "If it doesn't matter, I'd appreciate if you'd stop bringing it up."

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Interesting reading. My husband and I have been together almost 25 years and we often get asked ridiculous questions. Unless we fear for our safety, we generally just answer the question directly and without apology. I must say that with a very rare exception, we have found our fellow passengers to be very sophisticated and aware...and perhaps a little jealous! ;-)

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This thread is very interesting. My partner and I are both 58 and have been together for almost 23 years. We must look like an old married couple because we are never asked this question. Once on a Carnival cruise years ago, we were attending the repeater's party and a woman asked me how long we had been together? I replied 7 years and she said that's wonderful! I never saw her before in my life.... I hope not to run into bigots, but that's a chance we take meeting new people. Throwing in large amounts of alcohol and nothings guaranteed!

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Just stumbled across this thread. Nice to see the question is being explored from various angles. I agree, and think it's sad, that there are still some rude/ignorant/phobic/etc. folks out there. However, rather than seeing the "are you gay?" question as prying, I see it as the other person trying (clumsily maybe) to say, "I want you to know you don't have to [hide behind a facade/you can speak openly to me"/etc.]. Determining a person's reason for asking such a question is not always easy, but I have found this paradigm (that of someone just reaching out) has served me well. YMMV

Edited by SoCA6ft5
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Wow SoCa, if it doesn't matter why bring up the subject? To suggest someone is putting up a facade is not only being judge mental on their behavior but suggesting they are a phony. You might have a valid point, but to be honest I do not see justifying myself to a a perfect stranger. I cannot see any justification to ask or push someone to out themselves . The couples that have responded that they either don't get questioned or don't care is totally different from a single person in my opinion. If all questions are fair game, the privacy and respect are gone.

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Wow SoCa, if it doesn't matter why bring up the subject? To suggest someone is putting up a facade is not only being judge mental on their behavior but suggesting they are a phony. You might have a valid point, but to be honest I do not see justifying myself to a a perfect stranger. I cannot see any justification to ask or push someone to out themselves . The couples that have responded that they either don't get questioned or don't care is totally different from a single person in my opinion. If all questions are fair game, the privacy and respect are gone.

Please know I did not mean to offend. I can only speak from my own experience. (I'm the one who hid behind a facade for years. I'm the one who felt I had to hide the fact I was gay). The only point I was trying to make was we don't always know other folks motives. What seems to us as prying may be someone's clumsy way of reaching out. I know this isn't always (or maybe seldom is) the case, but just offering that there may be other reasons behind the question. Perhaps I just don't agree with those who suggest throwing back something snarky to the person who asked the question. "Why do you ask?" seems to me to be more the proper response. But as I said YMMV (your mileage may vary).

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For me it's about putting everyone around me at their ease.

 

Whether someone is uncomfortable on their seat, feeling shy in a group, or awkwardly wondering about something they don't know how to ask... My priority is to try and make them feel comfortable.

 

So with the above examples I might fetch them a cushion, talk to them in a smaller group and introduce them, or just come straight out and answer that question I know they've got burning... The main thing is that everyone has a better time when everyone feels happy and comfortable together.

 

So it's not about trying to remember a 'thing that you can say', or turning the question around, or having a clever one-liner that puts them on the back foot: it's about realising that YOU are the person who has experience of this situation - this happens at least once on every cruise, you've been here before. If you use your confidence to answer that question early on, before it becomes an issue, you'll avoid having your nervousness build up and make it feel tougher to answer it when it comes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd like to add something here...

 

If you are gay

 

And if you have married your partner

 

Please just say your husband or wife early on in the conversation

 

 

If you are wearing a wedding ring and you happen to be alone at the time and we strike up a conversation...as is often and easily done on a cruise....it's just a usual thing to ask if you are traveling with your wife and family...if you are male or your husband and family if you are female

 

 

You don't look any different to me and I'm not a mind reader but the fact is that most people are married to the opposite sex so it's a valid assumption

 

 

However if I suspect you are gay...I usually hesitate when asking...wife or husband...and you take the hint and say...wife or husband..which is a nice thing for you to say imho

 

 

 

It's just an easy thing to say to straight folks I would think so as to avoid any awkwardness

 

 

I'm always saying my husband without giving it a second thought and I'm assuming people take that to mean I'm married to a man...which I am and I'm female

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wow, it's the gay person that has to either explain or provide their status in conversation so the straight folks know who they are dealing with . Now I finally know what to do on my next cruise in Sept. Every time I am I a group, in a bar setting, at a breakfast table I will announce I am a queer so that everyone knows what I am and they don't have to guess not assume. I kinally get it, I have to explain myself, and be concerned with others feelings and comfort. I truly am a second class citizen. Or maybe just wear a tshirt that says I am a fag, take your best shot. A straight women telling me how to present myself....thank you for the advice, I finally know what I am suppose to do, out myself and possibly get hurt....ain't life grand.

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Why do you use such terms as queer and fag to describe yourself? Is to deliberately shock and be offensive? If it is, maybe that's where things are going wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Wow, it's the gay person that has to either explain or provide their status in conversation so the straight folks know who they are dealing with . Now I finally know what to do on my next cruise in Sept. Every time I am I a group, in a bar setting, at a breakfast table I will announce I am a queer so that everyone knows what I am and they don't have to guess not assume. I kinally get it, I have to explain myself, and be concerned with others feelings and comfort. I truly am a second class citizen. Or maybe just wear a tshirt that says I am a fag, take your best shot. A straight women telling me how to present myself....thank you for the advice, I finally know what I am suppose to do, out myself and possibly get hurt....ain't life grand.

 

I think the point of working into the conversation whether your partner is male or female is to correct an incorrect assumption that is based on statistics--most married women are married to men and most married men are married to women. Referring to one's partner as wife or husband is perfectly natural and consistent with heterosexual practice (as would be referring to a boyfriend or girlfriend). I think that is the opposite of being a second-class citizen.

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Les37b

My response is one of anger. My original post was because I find being asked to out myself is offensive. The words I used were those that I have received in response to queries. As a former military officer I was indeed a second class citizen not being able to serve openly... In those days it was a felony to do so. I found that post offensive. I am tired of being polite, taking the high road. If you think I am the reason for the problem then you have not read all my posts on this thread. Funny how the recipient of rudeness could be the cause. That suggests I am getting what I deserve. I'll let my neighbor who screams ****** when I am walking my dog know she is entitled . And I will stay off this thread which I should never have started... My bad.

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Les37b

My response is one of anger. My original post was because I find being asked to out myself is offensive. The words I used were those that I have received in response to queries. As a former military officer I was indeed a second class citizen not being able to serve openly... In those days it was a felony to do so. I found that post offensive. I am tired of being polite, taking the high road. If you think I am the reason for the problem then you have not read all my posts on this thread. Funny how the recipient of rudeness could be the cause. That suggests I am getting what I deserve. I'll let my neighbor who screams ****** when I am walking my dog know she is entitled . And I will stay off this thread which I should never have started... My bad.

 

You are correct in saying I'd not read any of your other posts. I've not really read many of the posts... I get an email because I'd participated ages ago and for once I read the content.

 

Nothing is ever black and white and I suspect knowing if the people you are conversing with are friends... or more than friends can make for more interesting conversation. It's not something I would ask necessarily but I could well ask during the cost of an evening.

 

Anyway, apologies if I misread the vibes there.

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Les37b,

Thank you and my apologies for snapping back. We all have different life experiences and different sensitivity levels. I must also realize this thread has changed for me. It is addressing situations faced by couples, my original issue was from the perspective of a solo or single traveler. How to deal with outing questions. Like when I heard a gal be asked why she wasn't married followed by are you a lesbian? I just haven't learned to deal with this stuff. But my experiences are my own and I must respect others and their opinions.

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Wow, it's the gay person that has to either explain or provide their status in conversation so the straight folks know who they are dealing with . Now I finally know what to do on my next cruise in Sept. Every time I am I a group, in a bar setting, at a breakfast table I will announce I am a queer so that everyone knows what I am and they don't have to guess not assume. I kinally get it, I have to explain myself, and be concerned with others feelings and comfort. I truly am a second class citizen. Or maybe just wear a tshirt that says I am a fag, take your best shot. A straight women telling me how to present myself....thank you for the advice, I finally know what I am suppose to do, out myself and possibly get hurt....ain't life grand.

 

 

 

Actually I think the point is since its legal to be married to same sex...how exactly does a straight person know what to do?

 

I personally enjoy gay company but also enjoy straight company and I aim to offend neither group

 

But if you are male and married to a male I just hope it won't bother or offend you if

 

 

I assume you are married to a woman and may use the term wife

 

 

Or is it better to ask your....wife?...husband?

 

 

Fwiw the owner of a store I frequent has kids from a first heterosexual marriage

 

This person is divorced

 

This person wears a wedding ring

 

Since I can recognize that he is gay (don't ask me how because it doesn't matter)...plus I noticed he wears a same sex wedding band....still the first time we engaged in a personal conversation (he is very friendly and knows all his customers)....I still paused when discussing our spouses....

 

I said my husband

 

Then paused and said....and your?

 

He answered promptly...my husband

 

And why shouldn't he?

 

As I said it doesn't matter to me just as long as it doesn't bother you if I say...your wife....when you are married to a man...which makes him your husband

 

And vice versus of course for lesbians

 

In this day and age there is no need to take offense at this

 

 

 

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Edited by luvtheships
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I think the point of working into the conversation whether your partner is male or female is to correct an incorrect assumption that is based on statistics--most married women are married to men and most married men are married to women. Referring to one's partner as wife or husband is perfectly natural and consistent with heterosexual practice (as would be referring to a boyfriend or girlfriend). I think that is the opposite of being a second-class citizen.

 

 

 

Exactly!!!!!

 

 

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okay, I havent read the whole thread but have dipped in and out over the last few days.

 

For me this question is no different to situations we face regularly land side. Or at least regularly if you have a job and or social scene that isnt ghettoised.

 

I have very rarely had negative reactions, mostly because I am lucky to live in a country (NZ) that is largely accepting. Those that cant accept know that if they cause a fuss they will be ostracised not me. And so it has been on cruises too.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think asking to confirm suspicions is acceptable, but as an opening gambit it is a little forward. As for my answer, it is usually "No, but I am working on it", as for the man at the afternoon tea that bazbov mentioned, I agree with him, I wouldn't sit next to me either.

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Les37b

My response is one of anger. My original post was because I find being asked to out myself is offensive. The words I used were those that I have received in response to queries. As a former military officer I was indeed a second class citizen not being able to serve openly... In those days it was a felony to do so. I found that post offensive. I am tired of being polite, taking the high road. If you think I am the reason for the problem then you have not read all my posts on this thread. Funny how the recipient of rudeness could be the cause. That suggests I am getting what I deserve. I'll let my neighbor who screams ****** when I am walking my dog know she is entitled . And I will stay off this thread which I should never have started... My bad.

 

ro - No need to stay away, just laugh out loud at some of the comments. Each of us have a different comfort level and desire to approach this.

 

As I do not travel solo, but with my husband I usually say 'my spouse' or 'the one who must be obeyed, for the moment' etc. and when he shows up or they see us at dinner or out and about then the look on their faces in some instances is priceless...

 

I, personally, support any approach YOU choose to take in this regards. What makes you most comfortable, after all it is your vacation and YOU choose how you wish to interact with fellow passengers.

 

bon voyage My friend and stay ultra private when that is your choice.

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I think the point of working into the conversation whether your partner is male or female is to correct an incorrect assumption that is based on statistics--most married women are married to men and most married men are married to women. Referring to one's partner as wife or husband is perfectly natural and consistent with heterosexual practice (as would be referring to a boyfriend or girlfriend). I think that is the opposite of being a second-class citizen.

 

 

ff - for Us, it is not an issue. My husband always correct people when I Am not around and I do not care either way. I have only encountered two (2) less than optimal experiences in this regards in over 15 cruises. I tend to be recognizable around the ships I travel on, so there is no running away or blending in! LOL

 

I have met several GLB passengers who rather remain low keyed and I respect that fully, their choice.

 

BTW - I never feel or Am ever made to feel or believe that I Am a second class citizen in any respect when cruising, regardless when I choose to or not, correct the assumption(s). People assume everyday things we need not.

 

For example on my last sailing the executive chef always assumed that I was married to a female friend who was traveling with us and her husband.... we got the biggest laugh out of it as my husband was introduced to him as my spouse from the start. I think it just could not sink in, but that was fine.

 

 

He meant no offense and still provided great special meals and desserts, for me specifically, as I Am vegan. In fact he went out of his way to do so.

 

 

bon voyage

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