Rare Host CJSKIDS Posted August 4, 2017 #651 Share Posted August 4, 2017 http://crew-center.com/miami-florida-cruise-ship-schedule-january-june-2017 According to this site, neither Vista nor Elation arrived/left Port of Miami on June 18, 2017..... Things that make you go, "Hmmmm....". :eek: Toot-Toot!!! The Vista left Port of Miami on June 17, 2017 and returned on June 25, 2017. Perhaps the poster was on the ship and typed in 18 instead of 17! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzaholic41 Posted August 4, 2017 #652 Share Posted August 4, 2017 There was nothing about this at all on our local news and it's certainly a story that likely make news. We have a local Homeland security office here and I have a friend who is a cop with them and a friend that works at the port, so I'll reach and see if they heard anything. I'm heavy into CLIA, work a lot with the cruise parent corporations and have family that works at Port of Miami. I never heard of a murder on Vista either. Vista cruised June 17-25, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jym626 Posted August 4, 2017 #653 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I was on the Emerald Princess the week before this murder, and it has taken me over a week before I felt up to opening and reading this thread. I have only read about a third of the thread, so apologies if what I say is redundant or passe'. We hosted a family event, taking 12 members of our family as our guests on this cruise. It was fabulous. This incident has really shaken me, even though it happened a few days after we cruised AK. Call it morbid curiosity or a need to quell my rattled nerves, but I did want to know what cabin this occurred in (yes I have found it). We were on deck 10, one deck above, and I cannot imagine hearing all this going on below us. Where we were located (center of the ship) our balconies extended out (half covered, half uncovered), but deck 9's balconies in our section (all uncovered) below us also extended out, to cover the lifeboats on deck 8. No one could fall from the balcony of our cabins onto anything but the deck below. So when the news first began to break that the occupants of port side cabins on decks 8-10 were being held for interviews, I wanted to learn more. My cabin was on the starboard side, but 3 of our 6 cabins were on the port side. My heart goes out to the family, to the children, and to the passengers and crew who were probably way more rattled than I still feel, even though I was not there at that time. This is a tragedy, and all of us respond to tragedies differently. For those who did not want to know the cabin number(s), I respect that. But I equally respect those, like myself who wanted to know, and feel no need or desire to be shamed by those who feel differently. Thank you all for keeping the discussion of this painful experience civil and respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggerontheseas Posted August 4, 2017 #654 Share Posted August 4, 2017 http://crew-center.com/miami-florida-cruise-ship-schedule-january-june-2017 According to this site, neither Vista nor Elation arrived/left Port of Miami on June 18, 2017..... Things that make you go, "Hmmmm....". :eek: Toot-Toot!!! If I understood the previous posts correctly I think the murder on the Elation happened in 2009. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusingdiva62 Posted August 4, 2017 #655 Share Posted August 4, 2017 If I understood the previous posts correctly I think the murder on the Elation happened in 2009. I That is correct when carnival used to sail from San Diego. The husband confessed and got a life sentence Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliair Posted August 4, 2017 #656 Share Posted August 4, 2017 A simple Google about the Carnival Elation murder: http://www.cruiseshipdeaths.com/2009/07/31/shirley-mcgill-passenger-cruise-ship-death-birthday-murder-carnival-elation-mexico/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailinglisa Posted August 4, 2017 #657 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I know that time delay sounds bad but it really isn't at all. Remember, this is a self contained, foreign flagged ship with their own on board authority (security). The notification to the FBI was done by Holland America Group in Seattle, not by the ship. That delay in notification really does not matter because the FBI doesn't become relevant until the ship reaches port anyways. It's not like a land based 911 service where the FBI was going to go rushing out to the ship. This also happens in the USA. I am a nurse in a long term care facility. I can be called to a patients room and find them without a pulse no BP, no respirations and with fixed and dilated pupils , or can actually be with them when they die. But the time of death is not when I find the patient, it is when the doctor returns my call and calls time of death. I assume that it would be the same on a cruise ship or any place that does not have a MD present at the actual time of death. The time of actual death and pronounced death can be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedish weave Posted August 4, 2017 #658 Share Posted August 4, 2017 For those who, like me, have been focused on worrying about the three young daughters: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2017/08/03/daughters-friends-recall-smiles-mischief-during-realtors-funeral/538385001/ Thank you for the link. It is refreshing to read how the family is handling this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spleenstomper Posted August 4, 2017 #659 Share Posted August 4, 2017 What does this mean in legalese? http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/04/preliminary-hearing-waived-for-southern-utah-man-accused-of-killing-his-wife-on-alaskan-cruise-ship/ Manzanares waived his right to preliminary hearing. Next up, grand jury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorncroft Posted August 4, 2017 #660 Share Posted August 4, 2017 What does this mean in legalese? http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/04/preliminary-hearing-waived-for-southern-utah-man-accused-of-killing-his-wife-on-alaskan-cruise-ship/ Manzanares waived his right to preliminary hearing. Next up, grand jury. It means that his case will proceed directly to a grand jury who will recommend what he's going to be charged with based on the recommendations and requests of the prosecutors. You realize, of course, that a grand jury doesn't decide guilt or innocense? Just whether or not it will go to trial. There is no way that this gets no billed by the grand jury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spleenstomper Posted August 4, 2017 #661 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Thanks. What I'm wondering is if this is any indication of a guilty or innoncence plea. I think the obvious easiest thing for him to do for his family is plead guilty. We will know soon enough... curious if this would indicate one way or the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherylandtk Posted August 4, 2017 #662 Share Posted August 4, 2017 It could be an indication of the plea, but also could be to let some time go by and limit testimony to the actual trial. Memories fade, people die, edges soften, even with something as horrific as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triptolemus Posted August 4, 2017 #663 Share Posted August 4, 2017 It means that his case will proceed directly to a grand jury who will recommend what he's going to be charged with based on the recommendations and requests of the prosecutors. You realize, of course, that a grand jury doesn't decide guilt or innocense? Just whether or not it will go to trial. There is no way that this gets no billed by the grand jury. I appreciate your participation, but could you please clarify... are you a lawyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colo Cruiser Posted August 4, 2017 #664 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I appreciate your participation, but could you please clarify... are you a lawyer? Lot's of law experts in their own mind. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherylandtk Posted August 4, 2017 #665 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Nope, but my BIL is and I asked him, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquahound Posted August 4, 2017 Author #666 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) I see it's time for some clarification again. Grand Jury (in this particular context). All felonies in the federal system go before a Grand Jury. The Special Agent and the prosector provide just enough information to establish Probable Cause. Assuming this is achieved, the GJ comes back with what's called a True Bill. The whole purpose of a GJ is to prevent unfounded and oppressive prosecution. This is how federal cases get Indicted. The subject is not there. There are no pleas. It's not a trial. In many, if not most cases, this process is done before the subject is even arrested. Although, that's not the case here because the subject was arrested on what's called a Criminal Complaint. Edited August 4, 2017 by Aquahound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorncroft Posted August 4, 2017 #667 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I appreciate your participation, but could you please clarify... are you a lawyer?Not a lawyer, but after spending 3 weeks on a grand jury I kinda know what goes on in that secret room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiseesusee Posted August 4, 2017 #668 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierlesscruisers Posted August 4, 2017 #669 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Sure can't argue with that! ;p Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wander Posted August 4, 2017 #670 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Sailinglisa, You are right about the time of death being when a Physician** declares the death and notes the time it was so declared. It does not necessarily indicate the actual time of death. Frequently that is unknown at that time. **In some special circumstances perhaps another "official" can "call" the death, I do not know. For example, a ship without a physician on board, isolated villages in Alaska where there is no physician, deaths in the field in wartime, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammajamma2013 Posted August 4, 2017 #671 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Lot's of law experts in their own mind. :rolleyes: Or might have grand jury experience. Edit: I just read the remaining posts with explanations, please ignore this. Edited August 4, 2017 by mammajamma2013 "back out" of post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare 4cats4me Posted August 5, 2017 #672 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I see it's time for some clarification again. Grand Jury (in this particular context). All felonies in the federal system go before a Grand Jury. The Special Agent and the prosector provide just enough information to establish Probable Cause. Assuming this is achieved, the GJ comes back with what's called a True Bill. The whole purpose of a GJ is to prevent unfounded and oppressive prosecution. This is how federal cases get Indicted. The subject is not there. There are no pleas. It's not a trial. In many, if not most cases, this process is done before the subject is even arrested. Although, that's not the case here because the subject was arrested on what's called a Criminal Complaint. I have a question. If all felonies at a federal level go to Grand Jury first, I am curious why one of our Cruise critics posted that Manzanares has "waived his right to a preliminary hearing." Can a defendant opt for a prelim at any time in the federal system, or must his/her case proceed to Grand Jury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Fountain Posted August 5, 2017 #673 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Is there any other type of Jury than a Grand Jury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dforeigner Posted August 5, 2017 #674 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Is there any other type of Jury than a Grand Jury? Generally speaking, Federal, state and county prosecutors utilize grand juries to decide whether probable cause exists to support criminal charges. A regular jury (6 to 12 people) – aka a petit jury – hears only trial cases. A regular jury decides the facts. The judge presiding over the trial decides the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iv18-Diane Posted August 5, 2017 #675 Share Posted August 5, 2017 You have no idea what could have happened in a ship cabin or hotel room prior to your stay, so why would it matter. You might not even know what had happened in your house prior to you buying it. A customer of a travel agent that I know asked if he could get a discount on that cabin. He was serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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