Are our beloved cruiseships contributing to global warming and if so by how much?

[DarrenM]

As god only created the world 10,000 years ago global warming is utter nonsense.

[DarrenM]

What happened there? I thought I wasnt British for a minute there.

[Saligo]

I'm not sure that there is much point in posting what I want to say here because most people on this thread seem not to believe in man-made climate change, but I hope most would agree that if cruise lines are doing things in the name of reducing carbon emissions they need to be sure that their actions really do improve things.

 

One of the things several lines are doing is building ships to run on liquefied natural gas (LNG)  Unfortunately, it is becoming clear that current LNG-powered engines actually contribute MORE to overall greenhouse gas emissions than conventional engines.  They do emit less CO2 than conventional engines, but they also emit methane, which has a greenhouse effect many times worse than CO2.

 

At the moment the best thing the cruise industry can do is ban the use of heavy fuel oil and move to marine gas oil.

[That sinking feeling]

Anyone that doesn't believe in man made climate change really shouldn't be allowed outside without their carer. There can be no allowances made here. Climate change is happening and everyone needs to act. Unless of course people believe people like sir david attenborough are liars.

[RocketMan275]

5 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Anyone that doesn't believe in man made climate change really shouldn't be allowed outside without their carer. There can be no allowances made here. Climate change is happening and everyone needs to act. Unless of course people believe people like sir david attenborough are liars.

Neither should anyone who believes in man made climate change and still chooses to cruise be allowed outside without their carer.  

Edited January 29, 2020 by RocketMan275

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, Saligo said:

One of the things several lines are doing is building ships to run on liquefied natural gas (LNG)  Unfortunately, it is becoming clear that current LNG-powered engines actually contribute MORE to overall greenhouse gas emissions than conventional engines.  They do emit less CO2 than conventional engines, but they also emit methane, which has a greenhouse effect many times worse than CO2.

The engines that emit methane from combustion are spark ignition engines, such as are used in buses.  Marine diesel engines are high pressure gas injection types that use a pilot fuel (diesel) to initiate ignition, and methane slip in these engines is reduced to levels as to be negligible.  LNG reduces CO2 and SOX emissions over both diesel and residual fuel, but the only problem with LNG is that NOX is not reduced enough to meet IMO requirements and therefore need either an exhaust gas recirculation system or a catalytic converter.

[Charles4515]

10 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Anyone that doesn't believe in man made climate change really shouldn't be allowed outside without their carer. There can be no allowances made here. Climate change is happening and everyone needs to act. Unless of course people believe people like sir david attenborough are liars.

 

Humans have caused climate change for thousands of years. It is real but we have adapted. Hysteria about climate change  is not action. Not cruising is not going to stop it. Not flying in airplanes is not going to stop climate change. The third world is not going to stop industrializing. Making the middle classes pay is not going to work. The current economic system is incapable of preventing climate change. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Charles4515

[Saligo]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The engines that emit methane from combustion are spark ignition engines, such as are used in buses.  Marine diesel engines are high pressure gas injection types that use a pilot fuel (diesel) to initiate ignition, and methane slip in these engines is reduced to levels as to be negligible.  LNG reduces CO2 and SOX emissions over both diesel and residual fuel, but the only problem with LNG is that NOX is not reduced enough to meet IMO requirements and therefore need either an exhaust gas recirculation system or a catalytic converter.

There are indications that although methane slip is indeed negligible in most situations, many LNG-powered engines emit unburned fuel at low load making methane slip significant in those conditions.  Since methane is many times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2, even relatively modest emissions of it can soon outweigh any benefits from a reduction in CO2 emissions.

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, Saligo said:

There are indications that although methane slip is indeed negligible in most situations, many LNG-powered engines emit unburned fuel at low load making methane slip significant in those conditions.  Since methane is many times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2, even relatively modest emissions of it can soon outweigh any benefits from a reduction in CO2 emissions.

And low load inefficiencies are why cruise ships will have multiple engines, many times of different capacities, to allow the generating capacity to closely match the electrical load and keep the load on any individual engine high.  At most times, the engineers will configure the on-line engines to operate in the 70-85% load range.  Ship's power management systems will automatically drop off an engine if the load gets too low.  And when using an exhaust gas recirculation system to reduce NOX emissions, this has the benefit of returning any unburned hydrocarbons to the combustion chamber for burning.  Cruise ship diesel electric power plants more closely resemble a shoreside power generating station, where there is a relatively stable load that can be anticipated, than an LNG powered bus or truck engine that is subject to continually changing load (from idle to full load every couple of blocks).

[That sinking feeling]

On 1/29/2020 at 6:01 PM, RocketMan275 said:

Neither should anyone who believes in man made climate change and still chooses to cruise be allowed outside without their carer.  

Now that's were we differ. I wasnt saying people shouldn't cruise. We all just need to be more aware and try to be as carbon neutral as possible.

 

I accept I am a hypocrite and as guilty as the next person.

 

My point was aimed at those that seem to think there isn't an issue. I suspect they are same people that believe the earth is flat or that it was created 5000 years ago.

 

We all still have to live and have the right to enjoy this life and not revert back to the stone age. 

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, That sinking feeling said:

Now that's were we differ. I wasnt saying people shouldn't cruise. We all just need to be more aware and try to be as carbon neutral as possible.

 

I accept I am a hypocrite and as guilty as the next person.

 

My point was aimed at those that seem to think there isn't an issue. I suspect they are same people that believe the earth is flat or that it was created 5000 years ago.

 

We all still have to live and have the right to enjoy this life and not revert back to the stone age. 

Unfortunately, many of the proposals to fight global warming, ie, Green New Deal, would move us quite a distance towards the stone age.  Consider this:  supposedly global warming began with the industrial revolution.  It makes sense then that we would would have to reduce our carbon emissions to levels not seen since before the industrial revolution.  Carbon emissions are the price of energy and energy is the price of civilization.  When you consider the carbon energy required to produce wind and solar, those technologies aren't the solution.  Which leads us to nuclear.  Problem is the environmentalists so worried about global warming also oppose nuclear.

[That sinking feeling]

18 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Unfortunately, many of the proposals to fight global warming, ie, Green New Deal, would move us quite a distance towards the stone age.  Consider this:  supposedly global warming began with the industrial revolution.  It makes sense then that we would would have to reduce our carbon emissions to levels not seen since before the industrial revolution.  Carbon emissions are the price of energy and energy is the price of civilization.  When you consider the carbon energy required to produce wind and solar, those technologies aren't the solution.  Which leads us to nuclear.  Problem is the environmentalists so worried about global warming also oppose nuclear.

Completely agree. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Completely agree. 

 

Exactly.

 

And if someone believes that strongly about global warming then what the heck are they doing cruising in the first place?  They are no different than the celebrity hypocrites who 'save the planet' by eliminating meat at their awards dinners, but who arrive at those dinners in private planes and stretch limos.  Everyone wants to tell OTHER people what to do while excusing themselves when it is inconvenient to live up to their own rhetoric.  Ricky Gervais would have a field day with these hypocrites.

 

Never believe their words.  Watch their actions.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Toofarfromthesea

[cb at sea]

NOTHING we do contributes to the climate in any way.  The climate will run it's own course, just as it's done for 4.5 BILLION years....long before humans were here.

[tip]

3 hours ago, cb at sea said:

NOTHING we do contributes to the climate in any way.  The climate will run it's own course, just as it's done for 4.5 BILLION years....long before humans were here.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.  Science is real.

[tip]

On 1/15/2020 at 12:21 PM, DarrenM said:

As god only created the world 10,000 years ago global warming is utter nonsense.

Are you Sheldon Cooper’s mother by any chance?

[Charles4515]

7 minutes ago, tip said:

Denial is not a river in Egypt.  Science is real.

 

Ignore cb at sea. Take a look at their post count. They troll on the boards and post anything to increase their post count. If they post anything that makes sense or is correct it is accidental. 

[Tierlifer]

I drove to my cruise from Seattle to Miami in a 1978 Ford Pinto while eating McDonalds with stryofoam containers that I disposed of in a plastic bag. 

[chipmaster]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:21 AM, DarrenM said:

As god only created the world 10,000 years ago global warming is utter nonsense.

🤣

[chipmaster]

On 1/31/2020 at 10:26 AM, cb at sea said:

NOTHING we do contributes to the climate in any way.  The climate will run it's own course, just as it's done for 4.5 BILLION years....long before humans were here.

OMG darwian has failed, LOL 🤣

[DarrenM]

On 1/31/2020 at 9:59 PM, tip said:

Are you Sheldon Cooper’s mother by any chance?

Two things.

1. I am male.

2. I have nevr been pregnant.

3. Who is Sheldon Cooper?

 

Ah, thats 3 things.

[DarrenM]

Three things.

1. I am male.

2. I have nevr been pregnant.

3. Who is Sheldon Cooper?

4. Why do you ask?

 

OK thats 4.

[tip]

4 hours ago, DarrenM said:

Three things.

1. I am male.

2. I have nevr been pregnant.

3. Who is Sheldon Cooper?

4. Why do you ask?

 

OK thats 4.

Two Things:

 

1.  Watch “The Big Bang Theory” or “Young Sheldon” (U.S. television sitcoms) and you will no doubt recognize Sheldon Cooper’s mother.

2.  Do you also believe that the Earth is flat?

[Goodtime Cruizin]

On 1/29/2020 at 6:27 AM, That sinking feeling said:

Anyone that doesn't believe in man made climate change really shouldn't be allowed outside without their carer. There can be no allowances made here. Climate change is happening and everyone needs to act. Unless of course people believe people like sir david attenborough are liars.

 

Well if this is your really position on the subject... just stop cruising. For you are admitting that you're persnally contribuitng to man made climate change.  

Edited February 2, 2020 by Goodtime Cruizin

[Goodtime Cruizin]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:58 PM, tip said:

Denial is not a river in Egypt.  Science is real.

 

Science is on this subject is only a real theory.