New Cunard Ship coming in 2022

[Guest SilverHengroen]

As much as we would love to see another Cunard Ocean Liner on the transatlantic run, The sad truth is that the transatlantic crossing market can only support one ship the QM2. The Pinnacle Class Cruise Ship design which is based on the Vista Class Cruise Ship is only about 11 feet longer and about 8.5 feet wider than the Cunard Vistas is not really bad looking. Anyway another new Cunard Cruise Ship Queen is better than no new ship at all. Regards,Jerry

I believe Mickey Arison was quoted as saying QM2 was constantly booked full on her crossings, and as they already had the design it would be a lot cheaper to build her a running mate. The thing to watch will be the power plant, if there’s a big breakthrough in that aspect in the next 10 years, then a new liner would have a pressing business case as it’s Cunard’s bread and butter and their ‘halo’ product. Alternatively if fuel prices continue to rise I think it’s possible they may look at replacing QM2 with an even larger all-diesel ship for 3,000+ passengers to try and minimise per-passenger fuel costs.

 

Maybe they are waiting until QM2 is mid-life so they would only have to worry about building a replacement every 20 years, rather than two in quick succession?

 

I don’t think Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria (especially pre stern-alterations) are actually that bad looking as cruise ships go, kind of conservative in design, but the pinnacle class looks to ‘wacky’ with the stacks of decks at the front only, if they could rein it back a little by deleting even one of those decks (I believe someone compared them above and Cunard’s design has an extra one over Koningsdam?) it probably wouldn’t be too bad a design either though. Inside I’d like to think they could retain more of QM2s features into the design - such as a proper dedicated chart room and Britannia club restaurant!

[Cruise Liner Fan]

I believe Mickey Arison was quoted as saying QM2 was constantly booked full on her crossings, and as they already had the design it would be a lot cheaper to build her a running mate. The thing to watch will be the power plant, if there’s a big breakthrough in that aspect in the next 10 years, then a new liner would have a pressing business case as it’s Cunard’s bread and butter and their ‘halo’ product. Alternatively if fuel prices continue to rise I think it’s possible they may look at replacing QM2 with an even larger all-diesel ship for 3,000+ passengers to try and minimise per-passenger fuel costs.

 

Maybe they are waiting until QM2 is mid-life so they would only have to worry about building a replacement every 20 years, rather than two in quick succession?

 

I don’t think Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria (especially pre stern-alterations) are actually that bad looking as cruise ships go, kind of conservative in design, but the pinnacle class looks to ‘wacky’ with the stacks of decks at the front only, if they could rein it back a little by deleting even one of those decks (I believe someone compared them above and Cunard’s design has an extra one over Koningsdam?) it probably wouldn’t be too bad a design either though. Inside I’d like to think they could retain more of QM2s features into the design - such as a proper dedicated chart room and Britannia club restaurant!

So what do you think they would do with the QM2 if they built another Ocean Liner around 2024? have her do only cruises or scrap her or sell her to another Cruise Line? I do remember that the QM2 was built to have a 40 year service life. Regards,Jerry

[philbob84]

There is a slide-show comparing the new Cunard 'pinnacle' class with HAL's 'Koningsdam’:

 

See here: https://youtu.be/mpXWtTIy4Pw

 

 

I think the design looks much better in Cunards Livery and with its stack and mast design. Much more regal. Truth be told i thought they would of used the Royal class from Princess way before using the HAL Pinnacle. The Pinnicale will probably feel and operate similar to a Vista which will help keep costs lower but sadly I think when QM2 goes there will never be another purpose built Ocean liner :loudcry:

[philbob84]

I’m leaning toward “Queen Ivanka.”

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

:'):'):') LOL

I was also thinking the Iron Lady or Margaret Thatcher :'):')

[Cruise Liner Fan]

I think the design looks much better in Cunards Livery and with its stack and mast design. Much more regal. Truth be told i thought they would of used the Royal class from Princess way before using the HAL Pinnacle. The Pinnicale will probably feel and operate similar to a Vista which will help keep costs lower but sadly I think when QM2 goes there will never be another purpose built Ocean liner :loudcry:

I disagree.If at that time years & years from now the QM2 is still sailing transatlantic at full capacity there will be another purpose built Ocean Liner. Regards,Jerry

[Jack E Dawson]

I'm pretty sure that Cunard/Carnival is watching this thread, and the two other threads dealing with their proposed new ship, in order to judge their core customer's reaction to the design and the whole idea of a 4th ship. Being able to utilize an existing and proven design will save Cunard millions, speed up the rollout process and simplify construction. For these reasons and despite the excellent feedback above, it is unlikely Cunard will make the significant design changes needed to have a real promenade deck (YouTube, search Koningsdam promenade deck) or a more forceful bow structure. They could have given the QM2 a sister ship but that wouldn't have allowed for the increased occupancy that Cunard wants or more likely needs. However, I think Cunard is listening and will do what they can to please their base. Obviously they are proud of their heritage and wish to continue it. But that's more about what goes on inside the ship.

In my opinion the proposed new ship really is nice looking. the problem is that it is always going to be compared to the QM2 an extraordinarily beautiful ship. After all, Cunard could be going down this path-

 

As for what itineraries the new ship will sail, it wouldn't surprise me to see it based in China, Singapore or somewhere in that area, at least part of the time. I saw an article the other day in one of the financial papers where Boeing estimates that there is a market for 4,000+ new commercial jets in the Asia/SE Asia region in the next 20 years. There is a lot of both old and new money there. I'm also putting my money on Queen Anne.

 

Harold

[Guest SilverHengroen]

So what do you think they would do with the QM2 if they built another Ocean Liner around 2024? have her do only cruises or scrap her or sell her to another Cruise Line? I do remember that the QM2 was built to have a 40 year service life. Regards,Jerry

Yep, I think to make the sums work regarding return on investment, the extra thick Hull was used to give her a 40 year fatigue life (the time the ship should last before any major repairs are needed) vs about 20 on a standard cruise ship. So that’s not to say she can’t stay in service longer than 40 years, just they might have to put money into significant works to keep her going after that point. Again, machinery more than the hull will probably be the limiting factor, probably both in terms of service life and fuel efficiency/ emissions regulations in the coming decades. My understanding is that due to the height of the ship and the split funnel uptakes, a complete re-engining as was done with QE2 would not be possible on QM2.

 

As for what they’d do with her if she became ‘spare’, we’ll as per above, all the return on investment sums were done assuming 40 years in service, so I think scrapping her prematurely would be the very last resort, moving her to another carnival brand or selling her, again, I would say would be one stop above scrapping, due to her fame/ iconicness/ synonymity with Cunard. If that were to happen then they would probably try transferring her to another carnival brand like Princess but remove many of the Princess and Queen’s grill suites to up her standard capacity. That scenario would also likely see the gas turbines go and more cabins or passenger areas put in their place. Most likely though would be they’d just pasture her out onto a full cruise schedule requiring slower speeds and less travel, maybe keeping a few crossings on in the peak season and a tandem with the new liner now and again.

[seaventurer]

Great Thread. Queen Anne? Not so fast. I'm glad we're sharing opinions (on the most part). I would wager a different naming approach.

 

I've been on the Koningsdam. I have faith that Cunard will execute it's own deck arrangement and execution with respect to lounges and passenger space. The Koningsdam is quirky (to me). There's no real definition from one lounge (space) to another on Kongingsdam except for decor. Music from one venue overwhelms that of another and it seems almost as there were conflicting teams designing her. It's pretty, but in my opinion a mass of a brand gone astray. Almost like a first attempt to change the game and again, while it's pretty it doesn't seem to work (cosmetically and otherwise.) One superb feature on Koningsdam is the two level pool, midship with it's dome. I never could understand why QE or QV didn't design a dome for the exception that it wouldn't fit with the Winter Garden, but why they couldn't merge a pretty Winter Garden with a dome over the midship pool is beyond me.

 

I believe QM2 will sail through her 40's. She's spectacular and after sailing on her three times since her remastering, she looks, feels and smells almost NEW. I happen to be lucky (a strategic deployment) and get #3002 in August, one of her new singles, which was, after 140 cruises and crossings, perhaps one of my favorites. The fit and finish was Mercedes Benz quality - and the space was deceiving. Roomy would be an understatement. Thanks Blohm and Voss. OH those windows!

 

In real life, the KDam is not very attractive and brings back to haunts of the ugly duck appeal of NCL's Epic. Out of proportion, just stack 'em as high as you can, up front. Clearly and as stated, the savings in employing a VISTA footprint compared to that of a new design are huge. But, for an extra, say, $100 million, CUNARD could have gone another route. Why not an exploration/adventure ship? It's the hottest space in cruising - Sailing on CUNARD to Antarctica would be fab - TEA and penguins? Hey, Crystal is doing it and we're not dead yet.

 

FYI, the Veranda cabins on KONINGSDAM, new and fresh as they are - are small - tight, especially the bathrooms and I'm not a large person. Given the projected pax capacity of the new QUEEN, I don't believe this will change so don't expect the spacious design of what we're used to?

 

One of Cunard's ships should be positioned in the AMERICAS - the brand is not well recognized in the US market, but could be a breakthrough since the mainstream options we have are getting very blurry. Celebrity is my favorite (after CUNARD) but only because I believe the Solstice class ships are the best designed and sized ships today. Almost flawless. Three times on the Eclipse somewhat qualities that statement.

 

CUNARD makes me feel special, almost privileged and entitled (sorry) but it's that what you want? I want to sail with a cruise brand that knows what delivering a real ocean going product is all about. I love the formality and the outright mix and class of passengers CUNARD garners. It's actually much less pretentious than what one would expect. Perception is reality.

 

QM2 would make the ultimate HOTEL ship in her retirement. I was on HAL's ROTTERDAM V in Rotterdam in May (the first ship I ever sailed on) and stayed in the same suite I was on cruises during her heyday in the '70's. She is a phenomenal example of how to restore a Grand Lady (or Grade Dame) to near perfection (albeit it did take a cool $250 million.)

 

I'm completing my first book - a 220 page Photographic Chronical (hardcover) featuring QM2 and my life. I love CUNARD.

 

How well they are able to transition a new, 3,000 passenger ship into their fleet will be the question. Where will it go; in which market will it serve its shareholders and loyal CUNADER's best, and will CUNARD be able to continue, more like hang onto, the tradition of excellence (White Star Service) they are currently delivering. They will have to draw significant resources from their other ships to make this happen. I have confidence that CUNARD will maintain this standard and look forward to many more great journeys on this brand of excellence (I do not work for CUNARD.)

 

We have until 2022 to see how this unfolds and I suspect this thread by then will have been parced into numerous iterations - let the journey begin.

[Guest SilverHengroen]

I think the design looks much better in Cunards Livery and with its stack and mast design. Much more regal. Truth be told i thought they would of used the Royal class from Princess way before using the HAL Pinnacle. The Pinnicale will probably feel and operate similar to a Vista which will help keep costs lower but sadly I think when QM2 goes there will never be another purpose built Ocean liner :loudcry:

I thought the same regarding using the royal class as a base for their new ship, if they’re going to have 3,000 passengers then a ship big enough to absorb them all would be nice... and it has a much more balanced profile, without the front-heavy stacks of cabins, the Britannia variant for P&O has twin stacks, Cunard could give that a go if they ditch the faux QE2 style funnels that don’t look quite right on the QV and QE due to their over-simplified design! It would also give them much more space to keep more features on QM2 but omitted from QV and QE and to even try some new things...

 

As for a liner to replace QM2, I’d say it’s pretty likely they will eventually build another, even if it’s only in ~30 years time to replace QM2, they have the design, building another to take over where she leaves off would be easy enough and it’s sort of Cunard’s thing, a USP of sorts...

[FennoExpress]

port side prediction!

 

She doesn't look that top heavy in this profile. But the high forehead makes the funnel look stumpy. Would be nice to see how the Royal class design looks with Cunard colours and funnel.

[Germancruiser]

Hi seaventurer, I am so glad I read about your great expriences about the singles on deck three- I have one booked in ten less then two weeks and I am rather excited to see for myself if I can do without a balcony- my first voyage since many many years without a balcony. So I can´t wait to baord! Sorry- very very off topic!

[Germancruiser]

I am still hopefull they will listen and give us the prommenade deck most " Cunarders" love!

[kohl57]

That, alas, is not going to happen. This remains, essentially, a rework of an already redesigned Pinnacle-class "platform", a K-Dam with a red and black funnel. And nothing is going to substantially alter that. Moreover, the arrangement of the lifeboats flat on the Boat Deck enables an extra deck of unobstructed veranda cabins that produces revenue. Additionally, I have read that the SOLAS regulations were tweaked in 2015 (possibly as a result of COSTA CONCORDIA) which mandated lifeboats arranged in this matter. So the lovely boat deck with its steamer chairs and ocean views is gone, replaced by a no-view walk-around "alley". Like walking or jogging in a tunnel.

 

And why I will stick to the now "classic" Vista-class ships and avoid the Pinnacles. They will "improve" cruise ships to the point I will simply not go on them anymore....

[Cruise Liner Fan]

That, alas, is not going to happen. This remains, essentially, a rework of an already redesigned Pinnacle-class "platform", a K-Dam with a red and black funnel. And nothing is going to substantially alter that. Moreover, the arrangement of the lifeboats flat on the Boat Deck enables an extra deck of unobstructed veranda cabins that produces revenue. Additionally, I have read that the SOLAS regulations were tweaked in 2015 (possibly as a result of COSTA CONCORDIA) which mandated lifeboats arranged in this matter. So the lovely boat deck with its steamer chairs and ocean views is gone, replaced by a no-view walk-around "alley". Like walking or jogging in a tunnel.

 

And why I will stick to the now "classic" Vista-class ships and avoid the Pinnacles. They will "improve" cruise ships to the point I will simply not go on them anymore....

Maybe Cunard will be allowed to arrange the lifeboats aboard this Pinnacle Queen like the lifeboats aboard the Vista Queens. If what you say is correct then hopefully the classic wooden steamer deck chairs will be allowed on the top deck looking out at the sea. I have seen youtube videos of the promenade deck aboard the MS Koningsdam which is the first ship in the Holland America Pinnacle Class Cruise Ship and it does look very narrow so that there is no room for the steamer deck chairs. Regards,Jerry

[eroller]

Additionally, I have read that the SOLAS regulations were tweaked in 2015 (possibly as a result of COSTA CONCORDIA) which mandated lifeboats arranged in this matter. So the lovely boat deck with its steamer chairs and ocean views is gone, replaced by a no-view walk-around "alley". Like walking or jogging in a tunnel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure how true this is. The new Viking ships, a brand new design, have a traditional wrap around promenade deck with the boats hanging above the deck.

 

It will be interesting to see how the new Disney Ships are built, as Disney prides itself on a traditional promenade deck.

 

I think it’s purely revenue driven. Even if it were a SOLAS requirement, there are ways around it. The Carnival Dream Class, NCL’s Breakaway Class, and the new MSC Seaside all have beautiful promenade decks. Perhaps not in the traditional sense with the boats above them, but great promenade decks none the less.

 

I don’t see Cunard making any changes to the lifeboat arrangement on the new ship. Why spend the money to reconfigure an existing design? That defeats the entire cost savings of using a clone platform across multiple brands. That is what Carnival Corp is all about. QM2 was a rare exception we may never see repeated.

[Oslo Dutch]

Not sure how true this is. The new Viking ships, a brand new design, have a traditional wrap around promenade deck with the boats hanging above the deck.

 

It will be interesting to see how the new Disney Ships are built, as Disney prides itself on a traditional promenade deck.

 

I think it’s purely revenue driven. Even if it were a SOLAS requirement, there are ways around it. The Carnival Dream Class, NCL’s Breakaway Class, and the new MSC Seaside all have beautiful promenade decks. Perhaps not in the traditional sense with the boats above them, but great promenade decks none the less.

 

I don’t see Cunard making any changes to the lifeboat arrangement on the new ship. Why spend the money to reconfigure an existing design? That defeats the entire cost savings of using a clone platform across multiple brands. That is what Carnival Corp is all about. QM2 was a rare exception we may never see repeated.

 

This is correct, the lifeboat arrangement on Pinnacle class is pure revenue driven. Lower lifeboats mean an extra deck with higher revenue balcony cabins instead of outsides with a restricted view. A promenade deck with deckchairs is nice, however not from an onboard revenue point. I can remember even on Celebrity they hardly put deckchairs on the Promenade deck in order to dissuade us to sit there and move on the upper decks instead. (with bar service)

 

Shame really.......

[kohl57]

No, the days of Cunard being the apple of the Arison eye seem over... they got QM2 as a custom built "one-off" and that's it. Indeed, in terms of fleet and market impact, Cunard is a jr. partner in the Carnival Empire and the original QUEEN VICTORIA being "snatched" from the cradle to become, instead, ARCADIA, shows the pecking order. So look for the new "Cunarder" to be again a K-Dam with a red/black funnel, a library (if we're lucky) and grill accommodation to distinguish her from her HAL fleetmates. And that's about it I fear.

 

I enjoyed cruises in MARINA and RIVIERA with no boat deck and not even a walk-around "alleyway" BUT, unlike QE and QV, they have exceptional open deck spaces that are properly looked after. Those on the Cunarders (QE at least) are an absolute mess making the Boat Deck an essential.

[Guest SilverHengroen]

No, the days of Cunard being the apple of the Arison eye seem over... they got QM2 as a custom built "one-off" and that's it. Indeed, in terms of fleet and market impact, Cunard is a jr. partner in the Carnival Empire and the original QUEEN VICTORIA being "snatched" from the cradle to become, instead, ARCADIA, shows the pecking order. So look for the new "Cunarder" to be again a K-Dam with a red/black funnel, a library (if we're lucky) and grill accommodation to distinguish her from her HAL fleetmates. And that's about it I fear.

 

I enjoyed cruises in MARINA and RIVIERA with no boat deck and not even a walk-around "alleyway" BUT, unlike QE and QV, they have exceptional open deck spaces that are properly looked after. Those on the Cunarders (QE at least) are an absolute mess making the Boat Deck an essential.

QM2 is Cunard’s raison d’etre, carnival only bought it to build QM2 to profit from the transatlantic niche market, and seem to be doing quite well from it. QM2 also serves as a ’halo’ product to draw in attention, her secondary purpose. Where QV, QE and the new ship come in is making it ‘worth it’ to maintain the brand, economy of scale for shoreside operations so to speak. They can bring the Cunard shipboard atmosphere to more people at once in more locations, but the real Cunard experience is on the Atlantic.

 

Arcadia going to P&O was actually because they decided they needed to maintain the QG, PG, Britannia set up/ ratios from QM2 on QV. Arcadia as a smaller ship could only accommodate a much smaller QG and PG (indeed I understand it was to be only QG and Britannia at one stage in the ship’s development) and had no grand lobby and a cramped queens room. You can see this from the ship’s current deck plans.

 

The degree to which they altered the vista design for QV and QE makes me think they might have a similar degree of free rein here, to raise the lifeboats if the promenade is deemed an essential Cunard distinguishing feature (and they do promote it a great deal). Remember we’ve only seen a single artists’ rendition so far and it was likely based heavily on Koningsdam as the Cunarder’s design has yet to be finalised.

[TheOldBear]

QM2 is Cunard’s raison d’etre, carnival only bought it to build QM2 to profit from the transatlantic niche market, and seem to be doing quite well from it. QM2 also serves as a ’halo’ product to draw in attention, her secondary purpose. Where QV, QE and the new ship come in is making it ‘worth it’ to maintain the brand, economy of scale for shoreside operations so to speak. They can bring the Cunard shipboard atmosphere to more people at once in more locations, but the real Cunard experience is on the Atlantic.

 

Arcadia going to P&O was actually because they decided they needed to maintain the QG, PG, Britannia set up/ ratios from QM2 on QV. Arcadia as a smaller ship could only accommodate a much smaller QG and PG (indeed I understand it was to be only QG and Britannia at one stage in the ship’s development) and had no grand lobby and a cramped queens room. You can see this from the ship’s current deck plans.

 

The degree to which they altered the vista design for QV and QE makes me think they might have a similar degree of free rein here, to raise the lifeboats if the promenade is deemed an essential Cunard distinguishing feature (and they do promote it a great deal). Remember we’ve only seen a single artists’ rendition so far and it was likely based heavily on Koningsdam as the Cunarder’s design has yet to be finalised.

 

I think it is safe to assume that a promenade would be considered a popular feature - on the recent westbound crossing quite a few hardy souls were out on the deck despite force 10 or 11 winds.

The wind was mostly off the bow, and the doors from the interior of deck 7 to the promenade were roped off. [did not stop folks who had enough outside from coming in with a blast of air]. The terrace doors ere open, so you could come up from deck 6 [where there were a few folks in the 'minnows' pool] or down from deck 8 to reach the promenade.

[eroller]

.

 

 

 

The degree to which they altered the vista design for QV and QE makes me think they might have a similar degree of free rein here, to raise the lifeboats if the promenade is deemed an essential Cunard distinguishing feature (and they do promote it a great deal). Remember we’ve only seen a single artists’ rendition so far and it was likely based heavily on Koningsdam as the Cunarder’s design has yet to be finalised.

 

 

 

I would be willing to bet this will not happen. I would like to be proven wrong but I doubt it. Changing interior public layout and design is quite different than changing the technical aspects of an existing ship platform. That requires much more work and expense, and of course re-classification. If this were the intent I think the rendering would have reflected it from day one. In this day and age of computer generated graphics, which often look like the real thing, I see fewer and fewer alterations from the renderings to the finished product.

 

I expect the new Cunarder to look exactly like the rendering. Of course it’s possible Carnival decides at a later time to send the ship to HAL and design something different for Cunard. Unlikely but possible.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

QM2 is Cunard’s raison d’etre, carnival only bought it to build QM2 to profit from the transatlantic niche market, and seem to be doing quite well from it. QM2 also serves as a ’halo’ product to draw in attention, her secondary purpose. Where QV, QE and the new ship come in is making it ‘worth it’ to maintain the brand, economy of scale for shoreside operations so to speak. They can bring the Cunard shipboard atmosphere to more people at once in more locations, but the real Cunard experience is on the Atlantic.

 

Arcadia going to P&O was actually because they decided they needed to maintain the QG, PG, Britannia set up/ ratios from QM2 on QV. Arcadia as a smaller ship could only accommodate a much smaller QG and PG (indeed I understand it was to be only QG and Britannia at one stage in the ship’s development) and had no grand lobby and a cramped queens room. You can see this from the ship’s current deck plans.

 

The degree to which they altered the vista design for QV and QE makes me think they might have a similar degree of free rein here, to raise the lifeboats if the promenade is deemed an essential Cunard distinguishing feature (and they do promote it a great deal). Remember we’ve only seen a single artists’ rendition so far and it was likely based heavily on Koningsdam as the Cunarder’s design has yet to be finalised.

There is also the story that Carnival Corp. bought Cunard to build the QM2 because of the popularity of the 1997 Titanic movie. The ship that was originally supposed to be the Queen Victoria but instead was given to P & O and named Arcadia because Cunard wanted to make improvements to the Vista Class Cruise Ship design. The ship that did become the Queen Victoria and her sister ship the Queen Elizabeth were stretched out 29 feet longer in overall length than the other Vista Class Cruise Ships and designed with the same public rooms and luxury suites aboard QM2, And I predict that the same thing will happen to the Pinnacle Queen when she enters service in 2022. The overall length of Queen Elizabeth & Queen Victoria is 964 feet long and the beam of the Q.E. & Q.V. is 106 feet wide. The overall length and beam of the Pinnacle Queen based on the dimensions of the M.S.Koningsdam is 975 feet long in overall length and a beam of 114 feet wide. And hopefully the classic wooden steamer deckchairs will be located on the top deck of the Pinnacle Queen if the Promenade Deck is not large enough for the classic wooden steamer deckchairs. Regards,Jerry

[bUU]

I think it is safe to assume that a promenade would be considered a popular feature - on the recent westbound crossing quite a few hardy souls were out on the deck despite force 10 or 11 winds.

It remains to be seen what percentage of days will this new ship devote to trans-Atlantic crossings, though. I wonder, though, to what extent is this promenade matter shaped by passenger intransigence. There was and continues to be a lot of chatter about the ms Konigsdam not having a promenade, but very little acknowledgement of the myriad offerings of the ship that practically speaking could substantially replace what is no longer offered on the promenade. I read marginally credulous claims that it is impossible to enjoy the view from the sky deck, impossible to enjoy resting on the loungers in the retreat, impossible to enjoy a walk on the narrower (but lounger-free) promenade, etc., as if any variance from precise, stringent, legacy-driven specifications precludes any value from what is offered. This parallels discussions we see going on regarding the main dining room offerings on lower-grade cruise lines: There is a lot of chatter about the downgrading, but very little acknowledgement of the ascendancy of specialty, premium restaurants as the direct replacement, offering food and service commensurate with what was offered in the main dining rooms a generation ago, for those who hold that specific niche interest. These claims ring hollow to me because of their one-sidedness, the fact that they do not recognize what is gained (affordability, to a great extent) and the fact that they do not recognize available alternatives offered by the same corporation, alternatives that do satisfy such precise, stringent, legacy-driven specification.

[kohl57]

Perhaps. Although being the customer, the passenger, the people who paying for all this in the end, I am not sure if our wishes, preferences, born of habit or just general cluelessness, is "intransigence" or just wanting what WE want out of a holiday at sea. Any company that views its customers preferences as an annoyance or inconvenience isn't likely to have many in the end now is it?

[seaventurer]

WOW, this is beginning to get forensic. My take is the percentage of promenade enthusiasts (and I am one of them) is so overwhelmingly small compared to those who never set foot on it, or even know there is a promenade would not influence making the requisite design changes (cost.)

 

FYI: There was a SOLAS regulation about 15 years ago that imposed lifeboats be no more than 43' above the waterline. Those lifeboats aren't going to gain any height.

 

CUNARD's concept (with new tonnage) would be to expand their customer base - grow their product offering, converting cruisers from other brands which most likely don't have a large or loyal promenade deck guest following. I've been on ships with decent promenade decks that are empty from dawn til dusk. I'm afraid there aren't many of us left. The joggers and walkers will have to (and usually do without avail) settle for a track up top and frankly speaking, I'm not quite sure many of them are steamer chair, rug and bouillon folks. What happened to the bouillon? This would be particularly true if CUNARD geared this ship to the AMERICAN market. Rock climbing for God's sake. Does anyone miss those?

 

There are some trade offs with the K-DAM footprint (which I have been on) in our favor. For example, the main, mid-ship pool embedded in a wonderful two story domed oasis is amazing. While not a KDAM fan (see my earlier post), I'm confident (optimistic) CUNARD will have license to continue their tradition with the iconic lounges and dining venues by re-configuring the design foundation of the public decks (to a certain degree) as opposed to what Holland America tried to do and IMO failed. Remember HAL is trying to reinvent themselves - CUNARD has a proven, established and widely accepted tradition of how their product is delivered. I love what they did with QE.

 

Change is inevitable and if the only transition or evolution is a reduced promenade (a tunnel is correct) than so be it. I'm sure she will have some extraordinary features we won't know about. Heck, delivery is 5 years off. They may not cut steel for another 3 years, so there's a very large window for ensuring the ship is perhaps more than we could ever imagine. Everything could change in that time frame, look at VIRGIN's new ship(s) and in fact it may. Technology and design are moving ahead at breakneck speeds.

 

Of the items on my wish list (simple), I'd like to see them emulate QM2's new single staterooms and put a bunch of them on this new ship. They sell out, always, and I fell in love with #3002 (QM2). I'm so happy with CUNARD frankly, whatever we end up with will no doubt be a great ship (albeit a tad ugly). If anyone believes the Westerdam is anything like the QE or QV except for the bones, look again. Thank you CUNARD.

 

SV

[omah1975]

WOW, this is beginning to get forensic. My take is the percentage of promenade enthusiasts (and I am one of them) is so overwhelmingly small compared to those who never set foot on it, or even know there is a promenade would not influence making the requisite design changes (cost.)

 

FYI: There was a SOLAS regulation about 15 years ago that imposed lifeboats be no more than 43' above the waterline. Those lifeboats aren't going to gain any height.

 

CUNARD's concept (with new tonnage) would be to expand their customer base - grow their product offering, converting cruisers from other brands which most likely don't have a large or loyal promenade deck guest following. I've been on ships with decent promenade decks that are empty from dawn til dusk. I'm afraid there aren't many of us left. The joggers and walkers will have to (and usually do without avail) settle for a track up top and frankly speaking, I'm not quite sure many of them are steamer chair, rug and bouillon folks. What happened to the bouillon? This would be particularly true if CUNARD geared this ship to the AMERICAN market. Rock climbing for God's sake. Does anyone miss those?

 

There are some trade offs with the K-DAM footprint (which I have been on) in our favor. For example, the main, mid-ship pool embedded in a wonderful two story domed oasis is amazing. While not a KDAM fan (see my earlier post), I'm confident (optimistic) CUNARD will have license to continue their tradition with the iconic lounges and dining venues by re-configuring the design foundation of the public decks (to a certain degree) as opposed to what Holland America tried to do and IMO failed. Remember HAL is trying to reinvent themselves - CUNARD has a proven, established and widely accepted tradition of how their product is delivered. I love what they did with QE.

 

Change is inevitable and if the only transition or evolution is a reduced promenade (a tunnel is correct) than so be it. I'm sure she will have some extraordinary features we won't know about. Heck, delivery is 5 years off. They may not cut steel for another 3 years, so there's a very large window for ensuring the ship is perhaps more than we could ever imagine. Everything could change in that time frame, look at VIRGIN's new ship(s) and in fact it may. Technology and design are moving ahead at breakneck speeds.

 

Of the items on my wish list (simple), I'd like to see them emulate QM2's new single staterooms and put a bunch of them on this new ship. They sell out, always, and I fell in love with #3002 (QM2). I'm so happy with CUNARD frankly, whatever we end up with will no doubt be a great ship (albeit a tad ugly). If anyone believes the Westerdam is anything like the QE or QV except for the bones, look again. Thank you CUNARD.

 

SV

 

I agree, I think that it's much more important what she is like inside than out, once your onboard your not really going to see what she looks like. As I said before, I'm looking forward to seeing what new innovations they come up with.