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Phoenix-London on British Airways: seeking advice please

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We are gearing up for our first flight to Europe next summer, traveling as a family of 4 (kids ages 11 and 12 at time of travel). We are staying in London for several days to sightsee before taking a British Isles cruise.

 

Since we live in the Phoenix area, we will almost certainly take one of the two British Airways non-stop flights from Phoenix to London. On the day we travel, there are 2 such flights:

 

 

  • BA 290 leaves Phoenix at 5:10 pm and arrives LHR at 11:10 am the next day.
  • BA 288 leaves Phoenix at 7:40 pm and arrives LHR at 1:35 pm the next day.

I keep going back and forth on two decisions related to our air transportation.

 

 

  1. First, I'm unsure which flight to take. I'm mainly worried about maximizing our chances at sleep and minimizing jet lag. I assume we'll have an easier time going to sleep on the second flight . . . but then again, we'll probably get served dinner around 8:30 or so.
  2. Second, I am debating between going on World Traveler (economy) or World Traveler Plus for the comfort. It's complicated by the fact that I can get two AA Saver round trip seats in economy, probably a smart way to use up 120,000 of our American Airlines miles. (And goodness knows . . . they are certainly not easy to use up!) I really, really would rather sit in the (slightly) larger seats of World Traveler Plus for our 10 hour flight. But I'm having a hard time justifying the extra cash expense since we can get the two frequent flier seats on economy.

Any advice or input, especially from those who have been on one of these specific flights, would be much appreciated!

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Both flights appear to be on 747-400

 

My first choice would be on 288. Only because it arrives later.

1. The 'arrival" rush into LHR is over. Immigrations and passport control might be a little faster.

2. Arriving later in the day means you may be able to check into the hotel when you actually get there.

 

Even if you get some sleep, you'll be running on adrenalin.

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While agreeing with Klfrodo's logic about LHR, I really enjoyed our late afternoon departure (from IAH) which meant we got to enjoy our dinner and get to sleep at a reasonable time to have a good sleep as opposed to finishing dinner at 10 pm or so.

 

Have you thought about putting the kids in WT and you and yours in WT+? That way you get to have a lie flat experience which will significantly improve your chances of actually getting some good sleep and the kids can sleep anywhere....at least all the ones I know can.

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Both flights appear to be on 747-400

 

My first choice would be on 288. Only because it arrives later.

1. The 'arrival" rush into LHR is over. Immigrations and passport control might be a little faster.

2. Arriving later in the day means you may be able to check into the hotel when you actually get there.

 

Even if you get some sleep, you'll be running on adrenalin.

 

Thank you for your response!

 

Good point about the hotel. We're actually staying in an air bnb type apartment, and the person checking us in will meet us at (virtually) any time during the day.

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I would go with the 5:10 PM flight.

 

You will have dinner at a reasonable hour.

 

Watch a movie.

 

Then get some sleep.

 

When you arrive push yourself to stay on the new time zone.

 

Key for us is after checking in to walk around. The outside air does wonders.

 

Glad to hear you are staying in London for several days before the cruise.

 

Keith

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While agreeing with Klfrodo's logic about LHR, I really enjoyed our late afternoon departure (from IAH) which meant we got to enjoy our dinner and get to sleep at a reasonable time to have a good sleep as opposed to finishing dinner at 10 pm or so.

 

Have you thought about putting the kids in WT and you and yours in WT+? That way you get to have a lie flat experience which will significantly improve your chances of actually getting some good sleep and the kids can sleep anywhere....at least all the ones I know can.

 

Thanks for the input, Clay. I was thinking the same thing that finishing dinner around 9 pm or later was not my cup of tea. (I'm of those people who don't do well eating on the later side.)

 

And yes, I *have* thought about giving the kids two seats in economy and getting 2 World Traveler Plus seats for ourselves. It is an extremely tempting and cost effective solution considering that our FF miles can get 2 economy seats, but nothing in World Traveler Plus. I start feeling mildly guilty for considering it, but then I realize . . . hey, you're taking the kids on vacation to Europe!! British Airways actually has a policy for this for children over 5. At 11 and 12, I think it's a reasonable choice. (They're old enough to handle themselves reasonably well, and young enough to not be bothered by the smaller seats.)

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I would go with the 5:10 PM flight.

 

You will have dinner at a reasonable hour.

 

Watch a movie.

 

Then get some sleep.

 

When you arrive push yourself to stay on the new time zone.

 

Key for us is after checking in to walk around. The outside air does wonders.

 

Glad to hear you are staying in London for several days before the cruise.

 

Keith

 

Thank you so much, Keith. I will try to remember your excellent advice about taking a walk.

 

Leaning towards the earlier flight. I think it will feel more natural for our schedules. Maybe. I am probably overthinking this!

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Definitely WT for the kids and WT+ for the grownups.

 

You're better off purchasing the WT+ tickets rather than using miles for them. On mileage tickets (either AA miles or their own) BA adds "carrier fees" (used to be called "fuel surcharge" fees until BA got sued in US federal court over it) which severely reduce the value of the miles you spend in the first place, and the WT+ seats also get whacked with the highest Air Passenger Duty (departure tax) rate, while the WT award seats pay the lower price. Those fees are built into the airfare for the purchased tickets but they're ON TOP of the mileage "cost" for the award seats.

 

Even so, look closely at the budget for the award seats. Try valuing your miles at 1.5c or 2c each, add the cost of the fees and taxes, and see how it compares to just buying the seats in the first place. You might be surprised, shocked even.

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Definitely WT for the kids and WT+ for the grownups.

 

You're better off purchasing the WT+ tickets rather than using miles for them. On mileage tickets (either AA miles or their own) BA adds "carrier fees" (used to be called "fuel surcharge" fees until BA got sued in US federal court over it) which severely reduce the value of the miles you spend in the first place, and the WT+ seats also get whacked with the highest Air Passenger Duty (departure tax) rate, while the WT award seats pay the lower price. Those fees are built into the airfare for the purchased tickets but they're ON TOP of the mileage "cost" for the award seats.

 

Even so, look closely at the budget for the award seats. Try valuing your miles at 1.5c or 2c each, add the cost of the fees and taxes, and see how it compares to just buying the seats in the first place. You might be surprised, shocked even.

 

Thank you, Gardyloo, for your thoughtful reply. I actually have an accounting background, so have probably analyzed this to death. The cash cost for an economy flight on BA from Phx to LHR for our dates is approximately $1600. Alternatively, I could spend 60,000 of my AA miles plus $500 in fees. So, a net value of around $1100 for 60,000 miles, or 1.83 cents per FF mile. So really, not a bad use of miles at all, especially given how hard it seems to be to ever *use* AA miles. ;)

 

Still really struggling over the idea of putting the kids into a different cabin. Probably an overactive guilty conscience, since we're pretty much going to be joined at the hip with them for our two weeks in Europe!

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I seem to be the only one on here who has this opinion (given when this has come up before) but I think it's pretty naff when parents go for a higher class of service than their children.

 

When I was a kid I flew longhaul a reasonable amount (every other month or so) and never flew in a different cabin from my parents, even when in Business or First Class. I grew up in the U.K. and it wasn't until I moved to the US that I came across this phenomenon so I guess it's more of a cultural thing.

 

To me it seems like treating your kids like second (or third!) class citizens. Do you put them in a motel whilst you stay in your suite at the Mandarin Oriental, or give them a few Euros for a Big Mac whilst you hit up L'Arpege for a tasting menu?

 

IMO, just because you're taking them to Europe doesn't excuse you from relegating them to the cheapest all round.

 

 

Have you thought about putting the kids in WT and you and yours in WT+? That way you get to have a lie flat experience which will significantly improve your chances of actually getting some good sleep.

 

No lie flat seats in WT+. 38" pitch, a little more width, one less seat in the window pair and some extra recline.

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Still really struggling over the idea of putting the kids into a different cabin.

 

You mentioned that BA has a policy for this, but I haven't flown BA in decades so I'm not familiar with their current policies. I do know, however, that some airlines require that minor children travel in the same cabin class as their parents, or that you pay an unaccompanied minor fee for them. Maybe BA doesn't, but double check if you haven't already. Either way, I'd feel funny getting a much better seat for myself and sticking my kids in the back with strangers.

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Having flown BA WT and WT+, go for the upgrade. The better service, food [business class meal - well it's still airline food], and increased recline [not flat] and excellent noise blocking head phones, priority boarding, juice/water/sparkling wine before take off, win out for us. I would go for the earlier flight, too. By the time the first round of beverages are served on the later flight, you'll be ready for sleep. A light snack/breakfast will be served before landing at LHR.

 

To keep the children happy and occupied during the flight, pick up a few extra snacks at PHX after going through security. Hope it's not Terminal 3; what a mess, just flew PHX to BOS last month. TSA was very aggressive in searches and we have Global and Pre-check.

 

Yes, crunch the numbers - when I did, I moved from BA to Virgin Atlantic to save about $1K RT BOS/LHR.

 

Darcy

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To keep the children happy and occupied during the flight, pick up a few extra snacks at PHX after going through security. Hope it's not Terminal 3; what a mess, just flew PHX to BOS last month. TSA was very aggressive in searches and we have Global and Pre-check.

 

Yes, crunch the numbers - when I did, I moved from BA to Virgin Atlantic to save about $1K RT BOS/LHR.

 

British Airways departs from Terminal 4 at Sky Harbor. Terminal 3 has been a mess for a while, and I agree that for some reason, it takes much longer to get thru TSA (even with pre-check) in T3. I guess it's hit or miss.

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Having flown BA WT and WT+, go for the upgrade. The better service, food [business class meal - well it's still airline food], and increased recline [not flat] and excellent noise blocking head phones, priority boarding, juice/water/sparkling wine before take off, win out for us.

 

WT+ does not get priority boarding. Priority Boarding is limited to First, Club World and oneworld Rubies and up. At some airports there may be a separate WT+ check-in line but this an exception rather than "brand standard". Personally I find it amusing the headphones would be described as "excellent", even the ones in First are terrible, IMO.

 

I should note that BA doesn't participate in TSA PreCheck.

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Having flown BA WT and WT+, go for the upgrade. The better service, food [business class meal - well it's still airline food], and increased recline [not flat] and excellent noise blocking head phones, priority boarding, juice/water/sparkling wine before take off, win out for us. I would go for the earlier flight, too. By the time the first round of beverages are served on the later flight, you'll be ready for sleep. A light snack/breakfast will be served before landing at LHR.

 

To keep the children happy and occupied during the flight, pick up a few extra snacks at PHX after going through security. Hope it's not Terminal 3; what a mess, just flew PHX to BOS last month. TSA was very aggressive in searches and we have Global and Pre-check.

 

Yes, crunch the numbers - when I did, I moved from BA to Virgin Atlantic to save about $1K RT BOS/LHR.

 

Darcy

 

Thank you for the input, Darcy. All of those little extras - and especially the wider seat and greater legroom - make flying WT+ much more appealing to me! Especially for a 10 hour flight.

 

I think we will go with the earlier flight - dinner will work better for us, I think.

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WT+ does not get priority boarding. Priority Boarding is limited to First, Club World and oneworld Rubies and up. At some airports there may be a separate WT+ check-in line but this an exception rather than "brand standard". Personally I find it amusing the headphones would be described as "excellent", even the ones in First are terrible, IMO.

 

I should note that BA doesn't participate in TSA PreCheck.

 

I did hear that BA doesn't participate in TSA PreCheck/Global Entry. Such a bummer! We just got it last year, too! But they have the only nonstop flight from Phoenix to Europe, and I'm not sure a connecting flight is worth it just to fly another airline and get to use our Global Entry.

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I did hear that BA doesn't participate in TSA PreCheck/Global Entry. Such a bummer! We just got it last year, too! But they have the only nonstop flight from Phoenix to Europe, and I'm not sure a connecting flight is worth it just to fly another airline and get to use our Global Entry.

 

You don't need to be flying an airline that participates in TSA PreCheck to be able to use Global Entry, they are two separate programs. I have been using Global Entry when arriving off BA flights for years and years. Just insert your passport as normal and it brings up all your flight information.

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You don't need to be flying an airline that participates in TSA PreCheck to be able to use Global Entry, they are two separate programs. I have been using Global Entry when arriving off BA flights for years and years. Just insert your passport as normal and it brings up all your flight information.

 

Thank you for the clarification . . . I guess I didn't understand the distinction. So Global Entry helps to expedite re-entry into the U.S., and would apply to our arrival back in Phoenix (since Sky Harbor has Global Entry kiosks).

 

But it would not help to expedite us through security at either Sky Harbor (on our Phx-London leg) or Heathrow (on our London-Phx leg), because British Airways does not participate in TSA Precheck. Is that about right?

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Thank you for the clarification . . . I guess I didn't understand the distinction. So Global Entry helps to expedite re-entry into the U.S., and would apply to our arrival back in Phoenix (since Sky Harbor has Global Entry kiosks).

 

But it would not help to expedite us through security at either Sky Harbor (on our Phx-London leg) or Heathrow (on our London-Phx leg), because British Airways does not participate in TSA Precheck. Is that about right?

 

Yes, you are correct. Although even if BA did participate in PreCheck the TSA have zero jurisdiction in the UK so you won't see any PreCheck lines at Heathrow.

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Have you flown with BA recently? Especially in cattle class? They truly are the pits, I'm sorry to say.

 

I'm ashamed to have to talk of our so called national airline like this but honestly their service, food etc are awful.

 

If you have any alternative then give BA a miss.

 

If not then take some extra food with you!

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WT+ does not get priority boarding. Priority Boarding is limited to First, Club World and oneworld Rubies and up. At some airports there may be a separate WT+ check-in line but this an exception rather than "brand standard". Personally I find it amusing the headphones would be described as "excellent", even the ones in First are terrible, IMO.

 

I should note that BA doesn't participate in TSA PreCheck.

 

Our last 4 flights, BOS/LHR/BOS with BA have all called WT+ to board before WT, thus it's a quasi perk, allowing us to get the hand luggage into the overhead and settle in for a pre-cruise beverage. First on my agenda - take out a few Lysol wipes and wipe the arm rests, beverage tables, remote and monitor. As far as the noise blocking head phones - anything is excellent compared to ear buds and the crummy things sold on domestic flights.

 

LHR offers expedited entry if you fly first or business. I've seen the sign while standing in line at passport control.

 

Upon return to the US, Global Entry is a nice way to avoid the long lines in BOS and elsewhere. Insert your passport into the kiosk slot, do the biometric hand/finger scan, face forward and in seconds, your entry slip appears. No need to complete the blue US Customs card while on the homeward flight.

 

Security leaving LHR is very thorough. IMO, far more so than any I've experienced at any US airport.

 

Re: BA's overall decline - Those planes flying the BOS/LHR route tend to be the older ones, 747 v 787's like Virgin flies. Service on all planes isn't like it used to be.

 

Anything is better than economy, especially flying from PHX to LHR.

 

Darcy

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Our last 4 flights, BOS/LHR/BOS with BA have all called WT+ to board before WT, thus it's a quasi perk, allowing us to get the hand luggage into the overhead and settle in for a pre-cruise beverage. First on my agenda - take out a few Lysol wipes and wipe the arm rests, beverage tables, remote and monitor. As far as the noise blocking head phones - anything is excellent compared to ear buds and the crummy things sold on domestic flights.

 

LHR offers expedited entry if you fly first or business. I've seen the sign while standing in line at passport control.

 

Upon return to the US, Global Entry is a nice way to avoid the long lines in BOS and elsewhere. Insert your passport into the kiosk slot, do the biometric hand/finger scan, face forward and in seconds, your entry slip appears. No need to complete the blue US Customs card while on the homeward flight.

 

Security leaving LHR is very thorough. IMO, far more so than any I've experienced at any US airport.

 

Re: BA's overall decline - Those planes flying the BOS/LHR route tend to be the older ones, 747 v 787's like Virgin flies. Service on all planes isn't like it used to be.

 

Anything is better than economy, especially flying from PHX to LHR.

 

Darcy

 

Thank you, Darcy.

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Have you flown with BA recently? Especially in cattle class? They truly are the pits, I'm sorry to say.

 

I'm ashamed to have to talk of our so called national airline like this but honestly their service, food etc are awful.

 

Obviously this is somewhat subjective but as a BA Gold/Silver cardholder for almost 15yrs now I really don't see the "awful service" you speak of. Yes, there have been some well known cuts, and the law of averages when you've flown them dozens/hundreds of times means you might find one member of cabin crew on an off day but I certainly wouldn't describe them as "the pits".

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We are gearing up for our first flight to Europe next summer, traveling as a family of 4 (kids ages 11 and 12 at time of travel). We are staying in London for several days to sightsee before taking a British Isles cruise.

 

Since we live in the Phoenix area, we will almost certainly take one of the two British Airways non-stop flights from Phoenix to London. On the day we travel, there are 2 such flights:

 

 

  • BA 290 leaves Phoenix at 5:10 pm and arrives LHR at 11:10 am the next day.
  • BA 288 leaves Phoenix at 7:40 pm and arrives LHR at 1:35 pm the next day.

I keep going back and forth on two decisions related to our air transportation.

 

 

  1. First, I'm unsure which flight to take. I'm mainly worried about maximizing our chances at sleep and minimizing jet lag. I assume we'll have an easier time going to sleep on the second flight . . . but then again, we'll probably get served dinner around 8:30 or so.
  2. Second, I am debating between going on World Traveler (economy) or World Traveler Plus for the comfort. It's complicated by the fact that I can get two AA Saver round trip seats in economy, probably a smart way to use up 120,000 of our American Airlines miles. (And goodness knows . . . they are certainly not easy to use up!) I really, really would rather sit in the (slightly) larger seats of World Traveler Plus for our 10 hour flight. But I'm having a hard time justifying the extra cash expense since we can get the two frequent flier seats on economy.

Any advice or input, especially from those who have been on one of these specific flights, would be much appreciated!

 

 

 

World Traveler Plus! We loved it. So worth the extra money. For our October cruise we purposely chose a cheapie cruise ship cabin to offset the extra cost for WT +

We are not made of money, and I am a bargain traveler, but I have no regrets about spending more than double to have comfort. We never even suffered jet lag due to being able to get some decent shut-eye for several hours. The food service and food was very good. We were on an SFO LHT 4:40 pm flight which arrived at 11:30 am and it was perfect. In our case we were headed to Barcelona, so by the time we got to our hotel it was 7:00 pm, so we never missed a beat.

FWIW, we were able to pre-board with the First Class group.

 

For our next trip we are inclined to try Norwegian economy plus.

Edited by 4cats4me

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World Traveler Plus! We loved it. So worth the extra money. For our October cruise we purposely chose a cheapie cruise ship cabin to offset the extra cost for WT +

We are not made of money, and I am a bargain traveler, but I have no regrets about spending more than double to have comfort. We never even suffered jet lag due to being able to get some decent shut-eye for several hours. The food service and food was very good. We were on an SFO LHT 4:40 pm flight which arrived at 11:30 am and it was perfect. In our case we were headed to Barcelona, so by the time we got to our hotel it was 7:00 pm, so we never missed a beat.

FWIW, we were able to pre-board with the First Class group.

 

For our next trip we are inclined to try Norwegian economy plus.

 

Thank you for the nudge. In our case, World Traveler Plus is probably a reasonable amount over the price of the World Traveler seats, especially once the extra baggage allowance is factored in. What's killing me mentally is the fact that we can get two World Traveler seats using our FF miles. And we've been saving those darn American FF miles for *years*! I feel like we've caught a unicorn and dare not let it go, ha! ;)

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Disney:

 

If you go with the two different seat selections, why not put yourself and one child in Plus and Husband and other child in regular economy? Then during the flight you and your husband can change seats to get a chance for the better legroom.

 

I am very OCD to saving money (grin) and if I had miles to use and could save a good little chunk of change I would do the above!!! Anyway you decide, it is a long 10 hours but at least you are non-stop!!

 

Pooh

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Disney:

 

If you go with the two different seat selections, why not put yourself and one child in Plus and Husband and other child in regular economy? Then during the flight you and your husband can change seats to get a chance for the better legroom.

 

I am very OCD to saving money (grin) and if I had miles to use and could save a good little chunk of change I would do the above!!! Anyway you decide, it is a long 10 hours but at least you are non-stop!!

 

Pooh

 

Seriously this may be a great idea. It might be about the best compromise we can come up with given all the circumstances. We could probably switch so that whichever adult-child pair rides in WT+ on the way to London will return in WT on the way back, and vice versa.

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Seriously this may be a great idea. It might be about the best compromise we can come up with given all the circumstances. We could probably switch so that whichever adult-child pair rides in WT+ on the way to London will return in WT on the way back, and vice versa.
Just a word of caution. I'm not sure that switching of seats between different cabins is allowed. The named ticket holder should be in the correct seat prior to departure. Trying to switch might be problematic.

 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Forums mobile app

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Seriously this may be a great idea. It might be about the best compromise we can come up with given all the circumstances. We could probably switch so that whichever adult-child pair rides in WT+ on the way to London will return in WT on the way back, and vice versa.
Just a word of caution. I'm not sure that switching of seats between different cabins is allowed. The named ticket holder should be in the correct seat prior to departure. Trying to switch might be problematic.
Changing seats during a flight is discouraged.

 

However, if Adult A and Child X have a WT+ round-trip ticket and Adult B and Child Y have a WT round-trip ticket, but they swap on boarding the second flight so that B and Y sit in WT+ for the whole of that flight while A and X sit in WT, that should be fine. It's a good idea to let the cabin crew know that you're going to do that, so that they know and in case there is some reason on the day why that shouldn't happen.

 

But the easier thing to do is to buy A and X a ticket which is WT+ outbound and WT inbound, and to buy B and Y a ticket which is WT outbound and WT+ inbound. That's dead straightforward to do, and it means that no swapping needs to take place.

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Changing seats during a flight is discouraged.

 

However, if Adult A and Child X have a WT+ round-trip ticket and Adult B and Child Y have a WT round-trip ticket, but they swap on boarding the second flight so that B and Y sit in WT+ for the whole of that flight while A and X sit in WT, that should be fine. It's a good idea to let the cabin crew know that you're going to do that, so that they know and in case there is some reason on the day why that shouldn't happen.

 

But the easier thing to do is to buy A and X a ticket which is WT+ outbound and WT inbound, and to buy B and Y a ticket which is WT outbound and WT+ inbound. That's dead straightforward to do, and it means that no swapping needs to take place.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply! You make an excellent point.

 

In the end, I spotted a pre-Christmas sale on Virgin Atlantic. We bought four tickets - together - in Premium Economy, at a cost per person that was less than the British Airways nonstop in economy. We'll actually be flying Delta in Comfort Plus to JFK, and then Premium Economy on Virgin Atlantic from JFK to London.

 

Now I just need to make sure we can make our connecting flight in JFK, but that's another thread, ha! (And I'm pretty sure we'll be just fine, with 1 hour 40 minutes on the flight to London and 2 hours 40 minutes on the flight back.)

 

Thank you to all who replied!

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