Puerto Rico cruise documentation nightmare

[NMLady]

Good point but perhaps not the domestic flights, that may be overkill..

 

In the US soon Real ID drivers licenses will be required for domestic flights if no passport.. In many states the documentation required to get one is a lot. Besides showing birth certificate or passport, a Social Security card and two proofs of residency are required in our state. I went through that when renewing my drivers license, but I do also have a passport.

 

Much easier to get passport.

[Velvetwater]

I won't even try to get into the travel that can be done within the Schengen area:) but documentation requirements actually change rather infrequently. The US cruise industry has nothing to do with the closed loop exception, this was enacted in the DHS regulations when DHS determined that a US citizen on a closed loop cruise poses a low risk to the national security.

 

Still bemused an American is trying to tell a European about Schengen but I digress...

 

The fact of the matter is a passport has a life of about 10 years (mine does anyway). Within a decade there will be new countries that will emerge (over 30 new ones since I got my first passport as a little nipper). Then theres the ever evolving laws/conflicts and administrative changes that deem certain documents invalid. The OP's situation isn't unusual...especially in Asia.

 

 

As far as who is responsible for the closed loop menagerie then either way...it should be changed to stop these incidents from happening and the countless first time US cruisers worrying if their documentation is ok.

[sparks1093]

Still bemused an American is trying to tell a European about Schengen but I digress...

 

The fact of the matter is a passport has a life of about 10 years (mine does anyway). Within a decade there will be new countries that will emerge (over 30 new ones since I got my first passport as a little nipper). Then theres the ever evolving laws/conflicts and administrative changes that deem certain documents invalid. The OP's situation isn't unusual...especially in Asia.

 

 

As far as who is responsible for the closed loop menagerie then either way...it should be changed to stop these incidents from happening and the countless first time US cruisers worrying if their documentation is ok.

 

Mine also has a 10 year life span but had I bought it before I needed it then it would have sat in a desk drawer gathering dust. Being aware of current travel rules is incumbent on all travelers, not just those with passports. And the closed loop exception is the law of the land and isn't likely to change any time soon, regardless of who likes it or who doesn't. (And any US citizen who doesn't like it may of course choose to obtain a passport and be done with it, it is their choice.) (And not to put too fine a point on it me talking to you about Schengen is on par with you discussing closed loop exceptions with me;).)

[Velvetwater]

(And not to put too fine a point on it me talking to you about Schengen is on par with you discussing closed loop exceptions with me;).)

 

I never claimed to know the finer details or history of closed loop cruise documentation and where it comes from (hence me thinking it was a cruise line thing). I just said I believe that making everyone have a passport would help things. It might also encourage them to go to more exotic climes.

 

I know people worry about the cost and I completely get that but say someone is a frequent traveller/cruiser who goes once/twice a year at least. A UK one costs around £70 ($95). Thats about £7 a year extra ($9.50). Children's are often cheaper too.

 

As you can imagine,passports are a sore issue on this island right now..so I'll leave it there.

[sparks1093]

I never claimed to know the finer details or history of closed loop cruise documentation and where it comes from (hence me thinking it was a cruise line thing). I just said I believe that making everyone have a passport would help things. It might also encourage them to go to more exotic climes.

 

I know people worry about the cost and I completely get that but say someone is a frequent traveller/cruiser who goes once/twice a year at least. A UK one costs around £70 ($95). Thats about £7 a year extra ($9.50). Children's are often cheaper too.

 

As you can imagine,passports are a sore issue on this island right now..so I'll leave it there.

 

Yeah, only trouble with that logic is that the total is still due and payable when you apply. I doubt that anyone that is worried about the cost would be willing or able to jet off to exotic climes;). I can't remember if children's passports are still less than adult's but if the child is under 16 it's only good for 5 years. Still and all this is a viable choice for many US citizens and millions choose an option other than a passport on closed loop cruises every year so it's popular.

[Velvetwater]

Yeah, only trouble with that logic is that the total is still due and payable when you apply. I doubt that anyone that is worried about the cost would be willing or able to jet off to exotic climes;). I can't remember if children's passports are still less than adult's but if the child is under 16 it's only good for 5 years. Still and all this is a viable choice for many US citizens and millions choose an option other than a passport on closed loop cruises every year so it's popular.

 

I understand that you can get some really cheap air fares in off peak season over there. A cruising friend of mine has booked tickets from NY to Ireland for less than a weekend break cost apparently. I have to travel in peak season so this wow fare hunting is a mystery to me.

 

Passports are essentially a 'pay per use' bargain if people plan appropriately. One may moan about a passport cost then sink hundreds in the casino. I am not one to say how people should holiday and there is the difference in US attitude to passports/exotic travel that gets discussed heavily on these boards that i won't go into...but to most of the developed world a passport is considered essential for all manners of reasons.

 

Fact of the matter is....if there was a UN (or similar) requirement for anyone voluntarily leaving their country to have a passport things would be easier. Thats pretty much my main point on this post. It would have definitely helped the OP out anyway.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I never claimed to know the finer details or history of closed loop cruise documentation and where it comes from (hence me thinking it was a cruise line thing). I just said I believe that making everyone have a passport would help things. It might also encourage them to go to more exotic climes.

 

I know people worry about the cost and I completely get that but say someone is a frequent traveller/cruiser who goes once/twice a year at least. A UK one costs around £70 ($95). Thats about £7 a year extra ($9.50). Children's are often cheaper too.

 

As you can imagine,passports are a sore issue on this island right now..so I'll leave it there.

I have wondered why you aren't simply allowed to choose the color of your passport... E.g., for those who have a strong preference for Blue, let them have a blue passport cover while the less discerning go with EU pink?

 

I must say, as an uninvolved curious bystander, that I totally envy members of the EU who can simply jog through the entry at the Venice airport, for example, while the rest of us non-EU passport holders like the U.S. and soon the U.K are in line for hours...

[Host Walt]

Please stay on topic. Here's the initiating post.

 

Hello everyone, i am a new member of the forum and am looking for advice on my current situation below:

 

i had a 20 people family cruise that departed today from San Juan to several Caribbean islands and my wife had document issues; we had to stay behind (me, wife, 5 yr old daughter and a 1 yr old boy). We live in Maryland since 2008 and we started doing check in of our trip about one week ago. I noticed that my wife passport expired just 2 months ago but since she had a valid id and a puerto rico issued birth certificate then we didnt really pursue getting another passport. So we flew to PR one day prior the cruise and we got to the cruise terminal about noon on a Saturday. By the time we where at the counter for document processing, it was about 2pm. There we found out that the PR government issued new birth certificates in 2010 and nothing prior was valid. We didnt know this information and after many discussions with management, we where not able to do anything. We called the PR government and of course they where closed on Saturday and my wife was not able to get another birth certificate. This government is absolutely terrible, they should have an emergency location for them to process these documents.

 

I called Royal Caribbean to explain our situation and they did nothing. I explained to them that no where on their website or policy specifies that Puerto Rico birth certificates need to be from 2010+ or they wont be accepted. My wife's certificate is government issued and meets the RC travel requirements according to their policy. They wont even issue a full refund for the trip because they say that we are responsible to verify travel documentation requirements with the state and not with the ship and yet they do provide guidance on documentation.

 

My entire family was upset since we havent seen them for a year... Pretty much all decent hotels are closed due to Hurricane Maria and we have no where to go... This was supposed to be the perfect family vacation and it has converted to a nightmare for us. My daughter still cries when she thinks about it and says that now she cant play with her cousins and go on the slide and ice skating.

 

Who is at fault here? Did i make a mistake? What can i do now?

[Velvetwater]

I have wondered why you aren't simply allowed to choose the color of your passport... E.g., for those who have a strong preference for Blue, let them have a blue passport cover while the less discerning go with EU pink?

 

I must say, as an uninvolved curious bystander, that I totally envy members of the EU who can simply jog through the entry at the Venice airport, for example, while the rest of us non-EU passport holders like the U.S. and soon the U.K are in line for hours...

 

Now you mention it, I don't suppose I have wondered why I can't choose my own colour although many people I know have the covers so they can personalise it anyway. As I am youngish I have only ever known my maroon, red passport and it has lots of good memories for me...I don't want a blue one (I also don't want Brexit but thats for another time).

 

I have memories of bypassing huge lines of non-EU passengers on European cruises too.

[navybankerteacher]

The ability to choose color for passport ? Is this a serious wish?

 

I suppose anything can be wanted: why can't I get blue dollar bills in stead of the usual green ones? How about mauve margarine?

[Velvetwater]

The ability to choose color for passport ? Is this a serious wish?

 

I suppose anything can be wanted: why can't I get blue dollar bills in stead of the usual green ones? How about mauve margarine?

 

I suppose some are very attached to their passport and want it a certain way. The UK newspapers have double page articles based on that very subject.

 

Although there are the aforementioned passport covers that solve this issue.

[sail7seas]

B uy a passport wallet, or holder in whatever color you like. Some really nice leather ones available. Most important is to watch the expiration date and keep the passsport current. THAt would have avoided Op's nigthmare.

[navybankerteacher]

B uy a passport wallet, or holder in whatever color you like. Some really nice leather ones available. Most important is to watch the expiration date and keep the passsport current. THAt would have avoided Op's nigthmare.

 

Good suggestionabout the passport wallet/cover; but I’m afraid (from reading previous posts) that there are some who would prefer to get the passport itself in their color of choice without being “forced” to spend the extra money.

[MicCanberra]

Good suggestionabout the passport wallet/cover; but I’m afraid (from reading previous posts) that there are some who would prefer to get the passport itself in their color of choice without being “forced” to spend the extra money.

More importantly is having a current passport to go with your preferred passport wallet.:D

[Cyber Kat]

Wow some people must have too much time in their hands or are very bored. [emoji15]

 

 

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[sailing canary]

You can't choose the colour because it's not 'your' passport. It's a government issued document and as such belongs to whichever government issued it. It can be revoked.

[CruiseGal999]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I guess this is a leassons learned.. my understanding on birth certificates was that they where official documents no matter when they where issued. Honestly, i will never trust any document from Puerto Rico from now on. The government did not make it clear to pr citizens outside the us of this rule. Also, if Royal Caribbean provides guidance on documentation, the least they could have done is to let us know very clearly on their sitr that individuals should validate a birth certificate with their state.

 

Would they be able to refund additional pre-purchased services like beverage packages and tours?

 

I agree with you 100%. NO ONE else has ever (to my understanding and knowledge) had to get a NEW birth certificate. They have had to GET their BC .... they have had to GET a CERTIFIED issued/copy (whatever) of their BC ... but NOT a whole NEW BC due to some law/policy, etc..

 

This SO SUCKS for you and your family.

[Tapi]

I agree with you 100%. NO ONE else has ever (to my understanding and knowledge) had to get a NEW birth certificate.

 

 

 

This was a unique situation. The old birth certificates from Puerto Rico were easy to forge, and for a while, people from Latin American countries were taking advantage of that to enter the US and claim that they were US citizens. Initially US Customs and Immigration were not catching on but eventually they realized what was going on.

 

One of my cousins was a US Customs agent in Laredo, TX and he came across a Mexican with a PR birth certificate showing that he’d been born in the same small town as my cousin. Needless to say, a few questions revealed that this person with the fake birth certificate had never set foot in Puerto Rico, and even less in that town.

 

Situations like what my cousin encountered is what triggered the crackdown on this type of illegal immigration which prompted the need to have newly designed birth certificates created.

 

As unique as the situation was, it’s not something that most of us who’ve had to get new enhanced drivers licenses in the US haven’t faced.

 

 

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[MicCanberra]

This was a unique situation. The old birth certificates from Puerto Rico were easy to forge, and for a while, people from Latin American countries were taking advantage of that to enter the US and claim that they were US citizens. Initially US Customs and Immigration were not catching on but eventually they realized what was going on.

 

One of my cousins was a US Customs agent in Laredo, TX and he came across a Mexican with a PR birth certificate showing that he’d been born in the same small town as my cousin. Needless to say, a few questions revealed that this person with the fake birth certificate had never set foot in Puerto Rico, and even less in that town.

 

Situations like what my cousin encountered is what triggered the crackdown on this type of illegal immigration which prompted the need to have newly designed birth certificates created.

 

As unique as the situation was, it’s not something that most of us who’ve had to get new enhanced drivers licenses in the US haven’t faced.

 

 

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The first clue was that he didn't recognise him I suppose.

[Shorex]

Please stay on topic. Here's the initiating post.

 

Host Walt, I sympathize. I am sorry your efforts are, for the most part, ignored. But I promise, I shall never, ever, wish for a passport that matches my nail polish. Happy New Year! :)

[CruiseGal999]

This was a unique situation. The old birth certificates from Puerto Rico were easy to forge, and for a while, people from Latin American countries were taking advantage of that to enter the US and claim that they were US citizens. Initially US Customs and Immigration were not catching on but eventually they realized what was going on.

 

One of my cousins was a US Customs agent in Laredo, TX and he came across a Mexican with a PR birth certificate showing that he’d been born in the same small town as my cousin. Needless to say, a few questions revealed that this person with the fake birth certificate had never set foot in Puerto Rico, and even less in that town.

 

Situations like what my cousin encountered is what triggered the crackdown on this type of illegal immigration which prompted the need to have newly designed birth certificates created.

 

As unique as the situation was, it’s not something that most of us who’ve had to get new enhanced drivers licenses in the US haven’t faced.

 

 

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Ok ... thank you. I have read about EDLs here on CC ... but why would you HAVE to get one? Is that in lieu of a passport?

[lbjen]

We're dual UK/US citizens. It's been handy to have two different color passports, but I doubt they'll be too difficult to distinguish from each other once they're both navy. Of course I'd rather there was no reason for the color to be changed to start with.

[Host Walt]

Thread closed. Serious thread drift. See initiating post.