Rise in Gratuities

[eddie11]

I found this post on the Cunard board (and I’m so sorry I didn’t copy in the posters name - apologies to him should he call in here). I feel more and more that I am becoming ‘the obedient customer’ he describes, accepting continual little downgrades together with continual little gratuities rises.

 

 

It feels like base prices are holding, reducing or only rising very little though? Certainly one week fiords cruises (like our first in 2010) are lower priced now than then. There’s a circle there to square. Perhaps we moaners need to go to a different cruise line ... but that reduces the opportunity to take ex-UK sailings hugely

 

 

Anyway - here is the post. I think it’s relevant here

 

 

 

 

The "obedient consumer" is most beloved by business and is the foundation of increased profits.

 

The cruise lines are all reducing the value of their product because of the "obedient consumer" as well as favorable economic conditions which is allowing consumers to cruise more.

 

I believe basic marketing should be taught to every high school individual so they learn about their future willing and repetitive exploitation by private enterprise. May be people will wake up to the methods of modern capitalism. While reasonable profit is required, gouging and deliberate downgrades are not.

 

We have enjoyed Cunard and now Oceania. We fired Celebrity in 2015 because of their vast (and continuing) downgrading of their once unique and great product.

 

I am a ruthless consumer and will kick to the curb any and all service providers if I even smell of downgrading that can not be justified by inflation or because of difficult sector circumstances like government intrusion/legislation/product scarcity.

 

I read posts on CC and shake my head at people complaining about downgrading but still booking future cruises. Or being incredibily loyal trying to minimize downgrades.

 

It is called the consumer behavior bell curve folks and after 40 years in marketing I still shake my head at "obedient consumers". We just love today's obedient consumers!

 

Time to rebel?

[insanemagnet]

The £7 is shared between your cabin steward (or butler) and the dining room and buffet waiters. With a ship like Britannia it could potentially be as much as £25,000 a night so it is a lot of money.

Exactly.

 

As nobody (apart from the one person here) would tip a cleaner in a hotel or tip the staff in a buffet, that means the tip relates solely to the evening meal. £7 pp for that seems a reach.

[jake 26]

I found this post on the Cunard board (and I’m so sorry I didn’t copy in the posters name - apologies to him should he call in here). I feel more and more that I am becoming ‘the obedient customer’ he describes, accepting continual little downgrades together with continual little gratuities rises.

 

 

It feels like base prices are holding, reducing or only rising very little though? Certainly one week fiords cruises (like our first in 2010) are lower priced now than then. There’s a circle there to square. Perhaps we moaners need to go to a different cruise line ... but that reduces the opportunity to take ex-UK sailings hugely

 

 

Anyway - here is the post. I think it’s relevant here

 

 

 

 

The "obedient consumer" is most beloved by business and is the foundation of increased profits.

 

The cruise lines are all reducing the value of their product because of the "obedient consumer" as well as favorable economic conditions which is allowing consumers to cruise more.

 

I believe basic marketing should be taught to every high school individual so they learn about their future willing and repetitive exploitation by private enterprise. May be people will wake up to the methods of modern capitalism. While reasonable profit is required, gouging and deliberate downgrades are not.

 

We have enjoyed Cunard and now Oceania. We fired Celebrity in 2015 because of their vast (and continuing) downgrading of their once unique and great product.

 

I am a ruthless consumer and will kick to the curb any and all service providers if I even smell of downgrading that can not be justified by inflation or because of difficult sector circumstances like government intrusion/legislation/product scarcity.

 

I read posts on CC and shake my head at people complaining about downgrading but still booking future cruises. Or being incredibily loyal trying to minimize downgrades.

 

It is called the consumer behavior bell curve folks and after 40 years in marketing I still shake my head at "obedient consumers". We just love today's obedient consumers!

 

Time to rebel?

Excellent post and most of us are the 'obedient customers' to utility providers insurance, etc.

Often I read threads complaining about 'cutbacks' by cruise lines and then the complainer lists the cruises they have to come on that/those lines.

The bean counters must have a right old chuckle.

[kalos]

It does make you ponder as to what P&O's end game is regarding this "optional" charge ?

Could it be to get it to a set amount before announcing that they are to be part of the fare ?

 

Looking at Marella Cruises , they could put their fares up another £1 per person for any reason they like and hardly anyone would bat an eye lid at the cost .( eg -was £660 now £667 pp)

 

So maybe that could be P&O's plan we can only second guess them .

They do have a few things they hope they can depend on, some of us auto tip or pay by other ways and with some of a mind set they subsidising those that do not pay this.

We pay our auto/service but in no way do I think I'm subsidising anyone as the charge is optional and that is P&O'S Terms and conditions. (Included in the fare sooner the better for me )

 

We like the N East coastline and when not cruising like to visit the area and stay there .

Only the other week we were in a very nice Indian on the sea front , the meal was great and they got a nice Tip off us as we paid our bill.

A couple near us finished their meal ,stuck their change in their pockets all smiles told the staff thanks for a great meal ,then left .

That was the same as the cruise tip, optional really . They paid what they wanted and we did the same .

I think if the pound increase is a problem ,even in principle then those people should go take it off .

 

Eglesbrech Your aquaintance who was thinking of booking and she was scandalised at the prospect of having to pay predetermined tips before the service was even offered and regardless of the quality. She felt it was wrong that this was added and the passenger then has to do something to stop it, like the worst kind of inertia clause. Her reaction was surprising as she is a very generous individual so it was not down to meanness - she just thought it was wrong.

 

You can tell her I agree even though we pay them .Never liked it , just paid it :confused:

[callyuk]

Exactly.

 

As nobody (apart from the one person here) would tip a cleaner in a hotel or tip the staff in a buffet, that means the tip relates solely to the evening meal. £7 pp for that seems a reach.

 

We have travelled extensively in India, Latin America and the near East and have always left a tip in the room for the cleaner when leaving, and will continue to do so. (We also used to do this in the early days of package travel to Spain.)

We don't leave £7 a day, but on a level considered acceptable for the country we're visiting.

[grapau27]

If there are 2 adults and 2 children in a cabin then that's a lot of money for tips.

 

I can see why anyone new to cruising who was not fully aware of these costs might simply cancel the tips once they become aware of it. It is not fully clear during the actual booking process and travel agents conveniently don't seem to mention it.

 

 

I recently gave some information about cruising to an aquantance who was thinking of booking and she was scandalised at the prospect of having to pay predetermined tips before the service was even offered and regardless of the quality. She felt it was wrong that this was added and the passenger then has to do something to stop it, like the worst kind of inertia clause. Her reaction was surprising as she is a very generous individual so it was not down to meanness - she just thought it was wrong.

 

 

Other new cruisers may well have the same attitude, particulalry if faced by a bill they knew nothing about.

 

I suspect those of us who have cruised for years have been brainwashed into accepting the status quo. It was interesting to get a perspective from someone from the outside so to speak.

Interesting and true post.

[grapau27]

Yes, you are right there. It is an anachronism from when the very poor were serving the very rich. Can't see new cruisers paying it if they can avoid it and for a family of 4 it is £400 on a 2 week holiday. It is accepted in the US culture but not so in the UK.

For us it is 2 for 2,3,4 or 5 nights on P&O so not an issue but for 4 for 14 nights it is an awful lot of extra money especially if they weren't aware of it.

[grapau27]

I consider myself a 'new cruiser' only having done two with another one booked. I have always paid the gratuity and will continue doing it as I budget for this before I book. Yes £400 for a family of four is a lot I agree but in relation to the cruise prices of other lines it's reasonable for good service. However if I don't get good service or I find rudeness amongst those serving us I would remove the auto tips and tip accordingly but this has never happened up to now.

I agree with all your points.

[grapau27]

But £7 per day

 

 

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£7 per person i think not.

A pound for room cleaners and up to £5 tip for evening meal is more than generous.

[Millers]

For us it is 2 for 2,3,4 or 5 nights on P&O so not an issue but for 4 for 14 nights it is an awful lot of extra money especially if they weren't aware of it.

 

 

 

Obviously a “drop in the ocean”

 

 

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[grapau27]

Passengers who are 6 months old up to under 13 years old do not get charged tips on P&O. On US lines they would be charged the regular amount which is increased if they were in a suite.

 

This is a big positive for booking P&O as opposed to the US lines out of Southampton in particular.

 

Regards John

Very relevant point.

[grapau27]

My brother-in-law was thinking of booking his first cruise for 2019 to celebrate a significant wedding anniversary. Knowing that we have done many cruises he asked my advice on any info/tips I could give him about who to cruise with, best cabins and general info. When we got to tips/gratuities/service reward scheme or whatever you want to call it and told him the majority of mass market cruise lines automatically added a charge onto you onboad account and the costs he was amazed and asked lots of questions which to be honest I struggled to justify charges. He said he wasnt against giving tips but surely it should be at the end of the cruise and at his discretion on who and how much he gave. One final statement he said which said it all was " why is it his job to give in his opinion high amount of tips so that staff get a decent wage surely that was the cruise lines job. I could not really argue with him or justify it and he is now no longer looking at a cruise but other holidays.

It can be hard to justify especially on longer cruises.

[pete14]

I am reading this thread with increasing unease. I would like gratuities to be built into prices and if so, nobody could escape with not paying so they would not need to be at current or new levels.

However, in this thread, and in many others on the same topic, the real ‘victims’ are not people who have to pay more on top of the price they have paid for their holiday (most can well afford it) but the recipients of the gratuities who continue to give great service and presumably have seen their gratuities gradually reducing because the people they serve and clean for don’t want to pay a little extra. They have no voice on here. I wonder whether any of those who remove gratuities and do not ‘give an envelope with an equivalent amount’ have the nerve to explain why to their steward and/or waiter, the victims of the choice they make.

[grapau27]

That how I am beginning to feel. I do actually always pay the auto tips but more and more people are clearly not and in some case I can see why: they don't have to so they simply choose not to.

 

If this money is needed for wages then put it on the price so that we all pay, not just a proportion of us who leave on the auto tips / pay in cash. People booking then all know up front what the holiday costs them and there are no nasty surprises for new pax once they get onboard.

 

If it is genuinely a "tip" then leave it to the discretion of pax based on the service they receive.

 

It's interesting that normally anyone decrying the system on one of these threads gets shot down very quickly. I get the impression that there are now many more of us getting annoyed about the constant price rises for what is supposed to be a voluntary expression of gratitutde for good service.

Although we autopay tips and give extra cash too but i certainly empathise with others that tips should be incorporated into the cruise cost so everyone contributes.

[grapau27]

I found this post on the Cunard board (and I’m so sorry I didn’t copy in the posters name - apologies to him should he call in here). I feel more and more that I am becoming ‘the obedient customer’ he describes, accepting continual little downgrades together with continual little gratuities rises.

 

 

It feels like base prices are holding, reducing or only rising very little though? Certainly one week fiords cruises (like our first in 2010) are lower priced now than then. There’s a circle there to square. Perhaps we moaners need to go to a different cruise line ... but that reduces the opportunity to take ex-UK sailings hugely

 

 

Anyway - here is the post. I think it’s relevant here

 

 

 

 

The "obedient consumer" is most beloved by business and is the foundation of increased profits.

 

The cruise lines are all reducing the value of their product because of the "obedient consumer" as well as favorable economic conditions which is allowing consumers to cruise more.

 

I believe basic marketing should be taught to every high school individual so they learn about their future willing and repetitive exploitation by private enterprise. May be people will wake up to the methods of modern capitalism. While reasonable profit is required, gouging and deliberate downgrades are not.

 

We have enjoyed Cunard and now Oceania. We fired Celebrity in 2015 because of their vast (and continuing) downgrading of their once unique and great product.

 

I am a ruthless consumer and will kick to the curb any and all service providers if I even smell of downgrading that can not be justified by inflation or because of difficult sector circumstances like government intrusion/legislation/product scarcity.

 

I read posts on CC and shake my head at people complaining about downgrading but still booking future cruises. Or being incredibily loyal trying to minimize downgrades.

 

It is called the consumer behavior bell curve folks and after 40 years in marketing I still shake my head at "obedient consumers". We just love today's obedient consumers!

 

Time to rebel?

Its like auto renewing car insurance,phone contracts, broadband,AA etc, if you don't negotiate you get taken for a ride if you just take whats offered.

[grapau27]

Obviously a “drop in the ocean”

 

 

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For 2 on a mini break we don't notice it but it certainly adds up if you are on a longer cruise.

[grapau27]

I am reading this thread with increasing unease. I would like gratuities to be built into prices and if so, nobody could escape with not paying so they would not need to be at current or new levels.

However, in this thread, and in many others on the same topic, the real ‘victims’ are not people who have to pay more on top of the price they have paid for their holiday (most can well afford it) but the recipients of the gratuities who continue to give great service and presumably have seen their gratuities gradually reducing because the people they serve and clean for don’t want to pay a little extra. They have no voice on here. I wonder whether any of those who remove gratuities and do not ‘give an envelope with an equivalent amount’ have the nerve to explain why to their steward and/or waiter, the victims of the choice they make.

Some people have thick skin and no conscience.

[Millers]

Why do we need a conscience, it not a matter of life or death. There are more important thing out there. People who need our help and support, who don’t have a home or money of food. Get real

 

 

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[grapau27]

Why do we need a conscience, it not a matter of life or death. There are more important thing out there. People who need our help and support, who don’t have a home or money of food. Get real

 

 

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If you cruise you are the one who needs to:. Get real.

[Millers]

If you cruise you are the one who needs to:. Get real.

 

 

 

Explain, please

 

 

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[grapau27]

Explain, please

 

 

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Explained fully in every tipping thread: halo.

[Millers]

Halo.? No it isn’t explained

 

 

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[jeanlyon]

If the tips are optional, then people will certainly remove them and either use an envelope or nothing at all. If you make it a compulsory service charge, then it's paid up front when you pay for your cruise. Simple.

[grapau27]

Halo.? No it isn’t explained

 

 

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Pete14 asked if people who don't tip have the nerve to tell the cabin stewards or waiters why they have given no tips.

I could never not tip and indeed have never stopped tips in 45 cruises because the crew do everything in their power to make our cruises special.

People in my opinion who can leave no tips and smile at the crew have Thick Skin and no conscience.

We contribute regularly to many charities too.

I hope this explains my comments.

Regards Graham.

[pete14]

Why do we need a conscience, it not a matter of life or death. There are more important thing out there. People who need our help and support, who don’t have a home or money of food. Get real

 

 

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No it is not a matter of life or death. It is a matter of people who can pay hundreds or thousands of their hard earned money on a cruise whilst seeking to save what is just pocket money to many (a glass of wine or a g and t) by not showing some financial appreciation to those people who work damned hard to make the cruise experience so good for us. People who live away from their homes and families for months on end to provide financially for them and their future.