Europa 2 -v- Seabourn Odyssey

[Conte Di Savoia]

This has been, by far, the most interesting posting about travel with Hapag Lloyd that I have read on these boards because it accurately,in toto, summarizes the pluses and minuses of current travel with this company. Of still existing historic passenger shipping companies only Cunard andP&O, compete with its story. That it still survives and is doing so well (2+ years advance for reservations…really?) gives me hope that all is not lost in the current cruise world of ocean-going apartment buildings with water parks.

 

I have had the privilege of traveling with them twice, once around 1985 on the Europa (1981 build,now sailing as Saga Sapphire) and a cruise on the Great Lakes on the chartered C.Columbus in 2005. The former was an attempt at reintroducing their product to a North American clientele (after all they had a strong presence in the North Atlantic from the 19thcentury into the 1960’s). The latter was a chartered ship, not run to the same high standards. Still, it was a terrific experience and gave us the opportunity to arrive in Chicago by ship!. Since then, the line has had ambivalent feelings about going after non-German speaking clientele. When they introduced Europa 2 it sounded as though they were serious about capturing part of that market, but they have not been particularly proactive in aggressively pursuing that audience. Although I love their product, I do not recommend it to the average non-German cruiser. Those seeking major social interactions with fellow passengers are bound to be disappointed. Although Germans can be very fluent in English, they are not prone to reveal that and, speaking if I may for North Americans, we are not likely to be very fluent in German, although my husband knows some high school German. Still, I am one of those passengers who enjoys sitting in my deck chair reading watching the waves roll by and smiling at those promenading along the deck. The cuisine, as discussed in this posting was always outstanding as was the entertainment, which emphasized, at least on my cruises, cabaret and classical composition. There were no tributes to Broadway/The West End or Disney. On Europa we had a classical quartet playing Mozart in the Horizon Lounge as we sailed in and out of the fjords. It brought me to tears, a great travel moment. And opera in the lounge, I was in heaven…except when I exited the performance reeking of tobacco. It’s interesting, that despite the long interval since I travelled with them, the basic product hasn’t changed that much. Still, I flirt with the idea of getting back on board. Maybe one day although after 57 years of traveling on ships, starting from my teenage years to my retirement years, I’m not so fascinated by the current offerings……..except for Hapag Lloyd.

[Catlover54]

Camillus, I never asked for tap water at meals because I always drink sparkling when I eat, old habits. I would just order a small bottle, as I drink very little while eating (too busy trying all the different wines :)). Waiters would ask me what kind I wanted, and then would pour it out of a glass bottle. If I did not finish the bottle they would offer to save it somewhere for my next meal based on my suite #, if I wanted, so there would be no waste, even though it was a very small charge. They also saved leftover wine for me and would check when I next came if I wanted to drink that, or remind me about the wine or the water.

Note also you have free bottled water with and without gas in your suite, unlimited, along with misc juices, sodas, and beer, repleted regularly. But it would just be gauche to carry that free water into the dining room. You can also get free bottled still water ("ohne", or without gas) routinely on bus excursions and around the pool.

Frankly, though it is a multibillion dollar business, if tap water is safe to be drinkable and does not have an aftertaste (most U.S. and German towns), I see no logical point in bottled still water in a dining area as far as health and pleasure goes, so I understand if you like still water it would be emotionally annoying to "pay" for it extra (though remember, this is just by verbally giving your room number if the waiter does not already remember you, no card presentation or signing required, rare exceptions) if you are used to drinking still. Ultimately you still pay for it on inclusive lines too, it is just not as overt as you do not have to recite your room # on SB or similar.

 

The Europa 2 is a luxury "aim to please" ship, so they do not like to say no to anything reasonable. Culturally Germans do not offer tap water to guests or in restaurants even if they often drink their own excellent and safe tap water in their homes. Most places it is just considered rude to do so, though that is changing. So, staff would probably go to the back and in the galley might laugh or shake their heads at the boorish or cheap American cruiser ordering tap water ("Leitungswasser"), even if it is perfectly fine for health and taste on the ship, and would bring you some in a professional manner, but I have not tried it. I am on MS Europa again in a couple months and will ask, or perhaps Ovener has tried it and can tell us now.

I have asked several German friends about the tap water issue and a couple older ones have said that for a few years after the war some municipal water supplies were iffy, so people landed up drinking bottled or spring water, and it helped that it has usually been very cheap in Germany, or even available for free pickup from local springs in some of the "Bad" cities.

 

Another thing Americans may find odd is that the default is to offer water and sodas without ice cubes in it, but if you ask for cubes, they will oblige and serve it that way to you. This is because there was for a long time a lingering superstition that drinking artificially very cold water was unhealthy, so they do you a favor protecting your health by offering water not too cold (beer is cold, however). Plus, most people had no or only tiny fridges after the war (the fridge available was often just the windowsill, e.g., outside an upstairs apartment you would not uncommonly see eggs and butter stored, except in summer) so it was normal for many to grow up simply drinking uniced bottled water stored in the basement or similar).

 

Logic only gets us so far in understanding cultural behavioral trends continuing even when the reason for their evolution is long gone :)

[frantic36]

Catlover the crew would be going out the back and laughing about this cheap Aussie and her husband as well as we much prefer tap water to bottled. We are used to having good quality tap water in our country.

 

From these comments I am definitely not feeling the love for this cruise line. But as Keith1010 would say, it is great there are choices to make us all happy.

 

Julie

[Camillus112]

Many thanks, Catlover, for you usually informative reply. Like Frantic, we have excellent tap water in our area. Catlover, I appreciate all the detailed posts that you share with us at CC.

[vistaman]

Question, can you ask for tap water? Will it be charged? Europa2, of course.

 

So far i never noticed a passenger asking for tap water on the Europa 2 .

 

A few years ago i saw it on the ms Europa by a rather "weird" lady not willing to spend any money on drinks :D

she only had drinks( quite a few ) during parties and even requested once a hot chocolate for dinner…

[Ovener]

It’s day nine on board and we’re in port in Civitavecchia while many guests go on an exhausting tour of Rome. The Yacht Club was much calmer today. So time for a few more comparisons with Seabourn while we relax quietly in the empty Belvedere library and lounge.

Breakfasts on board Europa 2 cater very much for the German taste, but we really like trying different breakfast foods, for example baked spelt, smoked halibut and tuna, pretzels, fresh prawns, liver sausage and even foie gras! I guess when in Rome…(or not, in our case). I think they could do a full English breakfast if pushed, and I have had Eggs Benedict and Eggs Royale, which were quite good. Seabourn wins for croissants and egg dishes though.

Room service breakfast yesterday was sensational, laid up for us on the terrace with a linen table cloth and beautifully presented on fine china with silver cutlery and a flower. The 24 hour room service menu is high quality but limited to a number of Germanic dishes like Currywurst and Schnitzel, plus some room service staples like smoked salmon, spaghetti, caprese salad and club sandwich. Frankly the smoked salmon, served three ways as tsar fillets, was the best smoked salmon in have ever tasted…one of the three types was wrapped in gold leaf! Currywurst, however, is not for me. Where Seabourn scores is in offering the MDR choices each night for room service. Presentation on Europa 2 and quality of ingredients is higher.

Next up, being made to feel special. Hapag Lloyd wins hands down in this. Although staff don't learn names in the Seabourn way (which actually we only encountered once on Odyssey!) many know our names and the overall level of service is much more attentive. In fact we can't go anywhere without being asked about our wellbeing. The biggest difference is in Penthouse suites and above having butlers, who are always there and really will do anything for you. We took an Owner’s Suite last time on Seabourn (and will again in September) as we love the space and the huge deck at the front, but there is no ‘extra’ feeling in terms of service. Butlers Sarah and Marcus are charming, omnipresent, incredibly professional and, as well as providing services like pressing, meal service and unpacking, act as a kind of personal Seabourn Square, sorting out restaurant bookings, tours and any room issues (e.g. they immediately fixed the air conditioning which was running a bit warm). Also higher suites get priority in terms of things like Zodiac rides (but I haven't seen anything in terms of priority for restaurant table choice…that’s only for the top four suites).

There are more sudden, spontaneous surprises on Europa 2. They have gone out of their way to provide literally world -class coverage of the World Cup. In Messina, the chef went onshore and bought kilos of fresh truffles, so we could eat fresh truffle and parmesan spaghetti in the Yacht Club: I had half a truffle shaved on top of mine as well! When the Stromboli volcano we sailed around at night failed to blow (it is supposed to be active every 20 months minutes), the captain took a detour the next night so we could get a second chance. And yesterday he decided when we left Capri we should sail around the island to take another look: complimentary champagne served. The day before we were offered Zodiac rides to see some Little caves around Lipari, but first another Zodiac was waiting for us Ina cove with glasses of champagne. I guess this is the equivalent of Caviar in the Surf (which didn't happen on our last Seabourn cruise…hopefully next time).

Last night the wonderful hotel manager Frank and International Hostess Lisa invited us for dinner in the MDR Wetmeere and spoiled us with pink champagne and delicious Austrian wines. They are charming and great company, and Frank said if we wanted our dishes done in any other way, or special dishes to order, we had only to ask. We feel incredibly well looked after by them.

Seabourn wins for in-room spirits. Only Penthouse and above suites on Europa 2 gets spirits and the choice is limited, the whisky Ballantines. Most suites just get soft drinks and beer. Last time on Seabourn we had 10 one litre bottles of premium spirits and a wet bar. Perhaps that’s why I don't remember that cruise so well.

Whilst Europa 2 wins for quality of entertainment, Seabourn wins for timing. Shows are 10pm here (sadly we had to abandon the classical pianist before she started as we were so sleepy). It would be wonderful if they could do two shows a night (like with the new Encore-class)…which would probably help with restaurant overcrowding too. While I write this, the classical pianist has just started playing on the Steinway behind us, so mustn't grumble.

I think some people on Seabourn might miss Seabourn Square. Here the equivalent of the Observation Bar is Belvedere, a Nordic designed library-cum-lounge serving tea and snacks. With a Steinway, of course. The concierge service is done by Reception on Deck 4 (with a beautiful piano bar adjacent) and a tour booking office behind it. There is never, ever, a queue at Reception (unlike in Seabourn Square).

Book selection for English titles is much more limited than on Seabourn. There are a few English magazines (and sadly none around the pool, where only German titles are available). There are two printed copies of the Times on board, but you can download English papers on the iPad provided in the room. The first four issues are free. So avid readers will prefer Seabourn.

One very nice German gentleman asked me about Seabourn as he is travelling for the first time on Quest later this year, and was a bit worried, so if you meet him please be as welcoming as our fellow travellers have been to us!

In case you hadn't guessed, Germans aren't as smiley as English speaker (unless they are staff and crew!). Bit that doesn't mean they aren't enjoying themselves. I hope.

On the subject of tap water, I haven't seen anyone ask for it and daren't! We still have a lot of our drinks credit left so it's no hardship having Evian. The drinks credit of €200 per passenger goes a long way with cheap bar prices and free drinks at many events.

 

[English Voyager]

Ovener,

 

If I remember correctly, is the surname of the Frank to whom you refer Neumann?

 

On my cruise on which I was the only English speaking person on board, Frank invited me to dinner in the Tarragon, and I do remember he liked his

 

 

 

 

Rosé Champagne.

He certainly does go the extra mile.





On my Norwegian cruise, one evening it was announced that we would be anchoring, and zodiacs would be provided to transfer passengers to a small landing stage from which it was about a 30 minute walk to a glacier.





As one arrived at the glacier, there was Frank advising passengers that when they were ready free coffee, and waffles, were available at the café.

 

 

As one who likes a leisurely evening meal, the 10pm start to the evening show suited me fine especially since it's duration was generally 45 minutes.





The standard of the performers is generally excellent.

 

One of my favourites is an American singer who has lived, and worked, in Germany for many years, named Kevin Tarte:

Edited June 20, 2018 by English Voyager

[English Voyager]

This is the link that failed in my previous post:

 

 

[Ovener]

Indeed, thank you, Frank Neumann. He is excellent and that sounds like a great cruise you had! Kevin Tarte isn't on board but Viennese Swing are very good and tonight were singing Italian and Spanish tunes very well.

 

Sakura, the Japanese restaurant, was really poor tonight - service slow and irregular - I guess the menus are unnecessarily complicated and, again, it was caviar night which messes things up. Yacht Club was heaving with caviar fiends :-)

 

It would be nice if they had a chirashi sushi dish so one could try all the nigiri on rice without ordering individually. Or maybe even a choice of (mixed) bento dishes. Apart from the soup, the food is good, but the choices are too wide, so courses are irregular and slow.

 

Overal, we are finding dinner the most difficult meal on board, with service too patchy and meals too slow. But food is almost always exquisite. Tomorrow we will try lunch in Sansibar (pretty much the room service menu.. almost never advertised..but with a separate kitchen) and dinner in Weltmeere..so far the most reliable evening restaurant.

 

Wish Germans would smile more, but there are plenty of nice people on board.

 

Sorry, English Voyager, I can't see your YouTube clip. I guess that says something about our onboard internet! Slow, not bad, but only one hour a day free. Seabourn wins for all-day-access free for premium suites.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Ovener

[English Voyager]

Ovener,

 

I have to admit that I avoided The Yacht Club for an evening meal much preferring the relative calm of the Weltmeere, or the Tarragon which at the time of one of my cruises had been awarded the title of the best restaurant at sea.

 

Even though my Norwegian Cruise was in June/July 2016 we were dogged by rain and very cold temperatures.

 

Despite that, a member of the on board video team had brought a drone with him and was able to obtain some impressive aerial footage.

 

Are the team's videos of various daily excursions still shown on the TV?

 

If so, then a final total video tends to be shown in the cinema towards the end of the cruise.

[Catlover54]

You can also use your drink credit to order anything on the wine and spirits menu delivered to your room, if you do not care for the included in room whiskey. We swapped our PH “free” whiskey for an extra Baileys.

 

Anything you do not drink, even if opened, goes back to the stock, you cannot give anything to crew or your butler.

 

If you have not tried the red wine Cuvee Anna from South Africa, available in small portions if you like, it is a pleasant inexpensive good food wine they had on board two years ago, last fall on Europa 2, and on Europa last week.

 

Did you say you tried the steak tatar in Taragon yet? If not, even if not on menu, ask for it!

 

And check out the roof lounging area too!

[vistaman]

in grand suites there is a display of the alcoholic beverages as well however there is no butler service in those suites ; neither sliced fruit , sweets and a small taster around 5 pm

i think on board the Europa and the Europa 2 , penthouse passengers must be adressed by the name by the teams on board

the beef tartar is available for breakfast in welmeere as well - but not on the suite breakfast menu - however there is foie gras :)

what I really found very poor on my last seabourn cruise was the absence of fresh orange juice for breakfast

i think if a bottle in a penthouse is empty it will be replaced - on Europa 2 !

[Ovener]

Ovener,

 

I have to admit that I avoided The Yacht Club for an evening meal much preferring the relative calm of the Weltmeere, or the Tarragon which at the time of one of my cruises had been awarded the title of the best restaurant at sea.

 

Even though my Norwegian Cruise was in June/July 2016 we were dogged by rain and very cold temperatures.

 

Despite that, a member of the on board video team had brought a drone with him and was able to obtain some impressive aerial footage.

 

Are the team's videos of various daily excursions still shown on the TV?

 

If so, then a final total video tends to be shown in the cinema towards the end of the cruise.

 

Yes, we had a great, calm and well-timed dinner in Weltmeere tonight. So our problems with Sansibar are a thing of the past. Absolutely excellent. There's a one hour presentation auf Deutsch of the video tomorrow morning. Lunch at Sansibar is also a hidden treat...truffle pizza to die for / of!

Edited June 21, 2018 by Ovener
spelling

[Ovener]

Catlover54 that's good to know thanks. Interestingly the choice of spirits has made me appreciate grappa! Will look for the Cuveé Anna, thanks for the tip. It's boiling down here so the roof deck looks a bit like a frying pan at the moment! Nice and fresh on deck 9 near to the pool and facing out...not hard to find beds but the double beds go quickly.

 

Steak tartare is excellent, thanks Vistaman, but I don't think even I could face it at breakfast. Fresh juices though are excellent...there is even freshly squeezed carrot juice, which is sublime!

[Ovener]

Final comments on an excellent cruise...on our last night. Best holiday of our lives. But still really looking forward to our Seabourn cruise in Greece in September. In a nutshell, Europa 2 is a stunningly beautiful ship with incredible design and space...and rightly gets such high ratings. Food and service are exceptional, apart from pinch points in the evening when things occasionally fell apart. We enjoyed the enrichment and surprises. For us, being on a German ship is part of being abroad and it's really nice to do something a bit different, with very different food, but we appreciate it won't be for everyone. Seabourn is more relaxed, and better value, but this really was truly exceptional, in another class, and if you don't mind being a bit of an outsider as an English speaker (nevertheless being incredibly well looked after) please do think of giving it a go if you like the itinerary.

[Ovener]

Ovener,

there is a (rather inactive) roll-call for that cruise in case you would like to join-in.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2587539

Looking forward to see you on board!

 

Thank you! Sorry for the delayed reply. I will take a look when back ashore shortly. Look forward to seeing you on what looks like an amazing itinerary.

[Isklaar]

Ovener, glad that you had such a fabulous cruise.

Thank you for making your comparison. It's been very interesting and helpful for me.

[Ovener]

I thought I should provide a footnote to this topic, having been on the Odyssey again in September on a Greek Islands Odyssey fortnight’s cruise. 

 

The Odyssey seemed old fashioned and worn compared to the Europa 2, but we still had a great cruise and the itinerary and enrichment was first class. Having been spoiled by Europa 2’s design ethic, on embarkation it felt like stepping out of Harvey Nichols into a Debenhams (sorry, I don’t know the US equivalent). But the Odyssey is such a nice ship overall that feeling quickly disappeared. It’s just that Hapag Lloyd would never let you see any rust stains...the ship has that ‘just out of dry dock’ feeling. 

 

We’re trying the Ovation next year (and Crystal Serenity, having swapped a Crystal river cruise for that - after all the Danube and rafting problems people experienced this year). I’ll be interested in seeing how they stand head-to-head! 

 

Fellow passengers were typically older than on Europa 2: I would say mid-seventies was the norm.  Huge Australian contingent as well as US. We met a very charming Canadian couple. Many older male passengers seemed angry the whole time and we witnessed one slap a poor Filipino tender crew member who was helping him onto the ship. The passengers on Europa 2 were having a lot more fun and were better mannered. 

 

We had the feeling that something had ‘gone wrong’ before this cruise as there was a bit of a bad atmosphere on embarkation and the staff took a bit of time to get up to speed, but then, once they got going, they were great. Our Dutch captain had been brought in at short notice from Holland America; we understood that the previous captain had fallen ill. 

 

The Resturant was very slow and made mistakes each time with our orders so we embargoed that pretty quickly. The newly rolled out Earth and Ocean was very good but too popular! We had to get sat down before they opened to get a seat, so we only went twice. Great and innovative menu, but repetitive.  The Thomas Keller Grill was excellent but we still can’t see all the fuss over the Caesar Salad prepared table-side. Steaks just amazing. Colonnade was very good and Maitre D’ Kristof was absolutely first class and really makes sure everything works like clockwork. Choice of wine was fine.

 

Food on Europa 2 is higher quality and no expense spared: lobster available every night and foie gras for breakfast. Great to have an Asian choice of food too. All crew on Europa 2 are much more of an ‘ensemble’, though there can be some real pinch points at dinner. 

 

If you’ve been to the light, hip Sansibar club on Europa 2, the Club on Odyssey seems from a different era...and not in a good way. 

 

With excellent weather, the pool deck on Odyssey was permanently rammed so the aft pool deck was a welcome escape. The whole pool area on Europa 2 is larger and better designed so you can choose sun or shade and get some privacy. 

 

The theatre feels very old fashioned compared to the Europa 2 (notable for its double height, its giant video wall and lack of pillars).  

 

The big pluses for Seabourn remain: the clubby feel, relative value for money compared to Hapag Lloyd, inclusive drinks, much more varied itineraries, availability of cruises, better tours for English speakers and ability to socialise easily with other passengers. 

 

The pluses for Europa 2 are: significantly classier and more spacious ship, friendlier crew with better service (they go out of their way to make English speakers feel welcome and special) better entertainment, better ‘surprises’ like Zodiac rides, superb food and more varied food, with speciality restaurants open lunchtime, amazing pool deck with retractable Magradome over it. 

 

The big, big problem with Europa 2 is there’s only one of them (well, one bilingual ship of this size with HL, that is) itineraries are very limited and they get booked years in advance.  A number of crew said they needed a Europa 3, and fast! Still, we’re booked on HL’s new smaller bilingual ship, Hanseatic inspiration, for two years from now 🙂.

 

So if you prefer a ship for its ambience, service and food over drinking, socialising and excursions, do think about Europa 2...but be prepared to think very far into the future...2021 cruise options are already being booked up. 

[Isklaar]

Thanks for the recent comparison update, very helpful. 

[Able Seaman H]

I've just read through the whole thread and found it an informative read. I too have looked at Europa 2 and indeed seen her at close quarters sailing in and out of Portsmouth - we have a modest Penthouse for occasional use overlooking the harbour 🙂

 

Europa is definitely a much more expensive cruise and for us that is the deal breaker, we enjoy Seabourn, don't need any more looking after so probably wouldn't benefit from the extras. I also enjoy my conversations with fellow guests.

 

I am interested to hear your views after sailing on Encore / Ovation. To my mind they raise the bar when it comes to interior fir out. More like a private yacht. The changes are often very subtle, wooden trim on the outside of a winding staircase rather than steel, panels in the lifts and so on but combined you do feel as though you are in a different space. Yes, the theatre is still a single height space but Thomas Keller becomes a proper eating space with a dedicated bar area (open to all), sushi chips in with a dining alternative - go in the evening and let them bring you a selection topped up what you fancy.

 

I'm not suggesting one is better than the other but await your thoughts on the newer Seabourn ships which might address some of the shortcomings you identified. Dare I say it as someone clearly not cost averse you might even find sanctuary within the infamous Retreat area !!!!

 

Anyway, have fun and let us know how you get on.

 

Henry 🙂

[Ovener]

4 hours ago, Able Seaman H said:

I've just read through the whole thread and found it an informative read. I too have looked at Europa 2 and indeed seen her at close quarters sailing in and out of Portsmouth - we have a modest Penthouse for occasional use overlooking the harbour 🙂

 

Europa is definitely a much more expensive cruise and for us that is the deal breaker, we enjoy Seabourn, don't need any more looking after so probably wouldn't benefit from the extras. I also enjoy my conversations with fellow guests.

 

I am interested to hear your views after sailing on Encore / Ovation. To my mind they raise the bar when it comes to interior fir out. More like a private yacht. The changes are often very subtle, wooden trim on the outside of a winding staircase rather than steel, panels in the lifts and so on but combined you do feel as though you are in a different space. Yes, the theatre is still a single height space but Thomas Keller becomes a proper eating space with a dedicated bar area (open to all), sushi chips in with a dining alternative - go in the evening and let them bring you a selection topped up what you fancy.

 

I'm not suggesting one is better than the other but await your thoughts on the newer Seabourn ships which might address some of the shortcomings you identified. Dare I say it as someone clearly not cost averse you might even find sanctuary within the infamous Retreat area !!!!

 

Anyway, have fun and let us know how you get on.

 

Henry 🙂

Thanks Henry. Yes, I am really looking forward to the Ovation and will post afterwards. I’m probably going to pass on the Retreat though...the idea of it is totally lost on me. I think I’d rather retreat to the cabin balcony: At least you have a view! 

[SLSD]

This is a fascinating thread.  Thank you Ovener for posting.  I hope you will continue. 

 

I wonder if the slow meals are a cultural thing.  I wonder also if you can see a difference in the style of food.  While airline food is not a good comparison, we found the food on Lufthansa to be very Germanic last summer--and just not appealing. 

 

The smoking policy is a deal breaker for me, but happy that it works for some. Also, I would miss getting to know the other passengers.  

 

While taller ceilings and more space sounds great, I haven't yet heard anything to make me a convert. 

 

[Ovener]

Thank you SLSD.

 

I’m not sure the slowness of the meals was cultural with Hapag Lloyd, I think it’s just they were all cooked to order, had to be served simultaneously under cloches and could be rather over-complicated in service (particularly on caviar night). 

 

The MDR on Odyssey seems actually slower than Weltmeere on Europa 2, though Seabourn’s other restaurants are faster than Europa 2’s speciality restaurants.

 

But...you can actually get food at Sansibar on Europa 2 (equivalent to the Club) - it has its own little kitchen -and we only found out about that at the end of the cruise. It did a wicked black truffle pizza and was quick and superb at lunchtimes. 

 

Yes, there is a difference in the style of the meals. Whilst Hapag Lloyd is Germanic in the breakfast choices, room service and the ‘classics’ menu in Weltmeere, there is still more choice than on Seabourn, as you have a French, Asian, Japanese and Italian speciality restaurant and a very international menu in the Yacht Club and on the daily changing menus in Weltmeere. We really like healthy German breakfast choices such as Bircher Muesli,  loads of different seeds, bio yoghurts and smoked fish. The bread choice is outstanding.

 

Room service is a bit limited if you don’t like Wiener Schnitzel (theirs is great BTW) or Curry Wurst (not my favourite at all!). Club sandwich, burger and (yawn) pasta still feature. 

 

But let’s face it, rib eye steak is a bit of a feature on Seabourn. I love it, but it sometimes seems to crop up at every venue. Thank goodness for Earth and Ocean doing something a little different. 

 

Sorry the smoking is an issue...I think that will change and is already doing with the new Expedition ships. 

[Tom504]

Ovener, great post!

 

We are booked on a Seabourn Greek islands cruise in late August into September and may run into you. On our first cruise with a Seabourn, I adored every Brit I met. What astounded me was how you all can listen to someone speak for a few seconds and figure out from which shire they hail. In the USA we can do that in a rough regional way only. 

 

Re smoking, I totally understand Seabourn’s general position, but there were nuances which escaped me. The most popular smoking area seemed to be adjacent to the outside bar above the pool. However, if you wanted to smoke a cigar, you had to go outside behind Seabourn Square where, of course, there is no alcoholic beverage service. 

 

The strange part part is that they placed pipe smokers into the category of cigar smokers. As an occasional pipe smoker, I’ve never had anyone say anything negative about being near me while I am puffing away. Cigarette smoke is annoying but this is what most people mean by ‘smoking.’ So why Seabourn caters to cigarettes vs. cigars makes sense, but I would think their policy re pipe smokers would align pipes with the cigarette reserved area. Even so, i think smoking on a balcony or veranda would be a deal breaker for me, or any interior spaces. 

 

Re Europa, I would be fascinated by the different languages spoken, but would fear this could become isolating. Part of the fun of cruising is meeting other people. That is, being able to communicate. But the pay for your drinks as you go is precisely why I want an all-inclusive cruise line. If I hear what you are are saying, E2 is more expensive, not all-inclusive, allows way more smoking, harder to book, and would be more isolating. 

 

 

[raphael360]

Thank you for your extensive review on the Europa 2 on our Seabourn forum.

Comparing the Europa 2's penthouse suite 50 person small yacht to the veranda suite on the SB Odyssey is a little like comparing apples to kiwi.  The better comparison would be the Europa 2 to the Crystal Esprit over on the Crystal forum (wink).  I am glad to learn the smaller yachts are a smokers' heaven as to avoid them anytime ever in the future.

 

If I were a person of wealth I would jump on the chance to book the 8 day Crystal Esprit Grand Prix cruise owner's suite at $42K US.  But sadly, we are of more humble means must settle for veranda suites on the 6 star Seabourn ships.  Next lifetime I'm planning on coming back wealthy, next lifetime.