Mens jackets - seabourn odyssey

[Pavovsky]

To get back to the topic of jacket or not, and to put a spanner in the works! I don't know if I am the only Brit who thinks of a 'dress shirt' as the shirt men wear with their DJ (tuxedo) , i.e. for formal evening dress. So hard to understand exactly what the meaning is - presumably a 'business' type shirt a man would normally wear with a suit and tie.

 

 

That is a dress shirt.

 

But is a dressy shirt something else or not?

 

What I will bring (along with 2 sports jackets) is some nice casual shirts.

[Isklaar]

To get back to the topic of jacket or not, and to put a spanner in the works! I don't know if I am the only Brit who thinks of a 'dress shirt' as the shirt men wear with their DJ (tuxedo) , i.e. for formal evening dress. So hard to understand exactly what the meaning is - presumably a 'business' type shirt a man would normally wear with a suit and tie.

 

Not a Brit, but after living here for so long, like you I understand 'dress shirt' to mean one that very likely has a wing collar and/or a ruffle and is worn under a dinner jacket.

I believe this is another of the complications that sometimes arise between British English and US English.

So like you I made a presumption which is that the type of shirt referred to by SB would have a collar and would button up at the front. Perhaps either long or short sleeves.

[SLSD]

In the United States, dress shirt simply means a shirt (usually solid in color or perhaps with a stripe or sophisticated pattern) that could/would be worn with either a suit or sport coat The collar could be the buttoned down variety or a spread collar. We generally call the shirt worn with the tux a "tux shirt" . I would interpret dress shirt to imply long sleeves as generally short sleeves are considered very casual and not worn under a jacket.

[Roxburgh]

In the United States, dress shirt simply means a shirt (usually solid in color or perhaps with a stripe or sophisticated pattern) that could/would be worn with either a suit or sport coat The collar could be the buttoned down variety or a spread collar. We generally call the shirt worn with the tux a "tux shirt" . I would interpret dress shirt to imply long sleeves as generally short sleeves are considered very casual and not worn under a jacket.

 

And therein resides part of the problem. Seabourn is an international line and not an American one. For example, when I lived and worked in Switzerland, it was quite common to wear a short sleeved shirt under a suit jacket in summertime. It might be considered very casual in Texas but not so in Geneva or Stuttgart. Definitions of casual differ from country to country.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Roxburgh

[SLSD]

Roxburgh, You are very right. Different countries different sensibilities. I am still chuckling over someone from England saying that he didn't understand why men from the United States wear so many brown pants (we call it British khaki as a color) while I wonder why so many Englishmen wear red pants--even with a sports coat! The same words will be interpreted by differently by people from different countries.

 

It reminds me of a funny story from years ago. We live in Dallas and my husband was in a large law firm. The firm was having a big party at one of the partner's houses. The printed invitation said "casual" for dress. One of the young women lawyers appeared at the party in jeans. She had not lived in Dallas long enough to know that casual in Dallas is "Dallas casual" which means pretty darn dressed up---Seabourn would call it Country Club casual, but in Dallas it is dressier than that. The young woman lawyer was so embarrassed to be so underdressed. Since that time, whenever I see that casual dress is recommended, I think about this party.

[jenidallas]

As another pseudo-Dallasite, that story makes me chuckle. Mastering the dress code here can be puzzling for the non-natives. A “casual girlfriends’ brunch” calls for a cute new dress (more obscure designer or smaller boutique wins extra points) with heels (but open-toe or slingbacknor wedge because “casual”) and the right handbag. And of course the perfect sunglasses because part of it might be outdoors. And yet it’s a weird world living here in Fort Worth (city of cowboys and culture) where we laugh that you really CAN wear jeans everywhere (save for the two restaurants and private clubs where that isn’t true). But everyone knows that while you CAN show up to the ballet or a exhibition party in jeans, you will also see evening gowns and couture.

 

As far as the 40-somethings/sub-40s, more often than not I see this group (which we still have a couple more years of belonging) trying very hard to exercise proper decorum with the dress code. So many of us already work in professional environments that have dropped down to business casual (in whatever interpretation of that one’s industry has embraced) and welcome the opportunity to dress to impress.

[wripro]

You are so right wripro. If they do not mind sticking out (and some people actually prefer it), then all is well for that passenger.

And it should be for everyone else.

[SLSD]

Jenidallas, After more than thirty years of living in Dallas, and near the city center (Park Cities), I don't think I have to have a new dress for a brunch or the slingback shoes and purse etc. I'm much more practical than that, but do realize that casual does not mean jeans when the invitation is printed. I'm a very laid back person, but I've lived here for so long now and attended so many functions that I know that jeans are for at home, or our farm or maybe to the grocery store unless the social function is a backyard BBQ with our closest four friends and they say they are all wearing jeans. I'm a lot older than you are (66) and our experience may differ quite a bit from yours. Changing demographics and all of that. So happy that there are other Dallasites here on on CC!

 

By the way, my husband's law firm at one time moved to business casual--and then back again. Very interesting. He is retired now and for the last few years DID wear his jeans and boots to work unless he had to appear in court. Senior partners could get by with that and he did. I remember the memos about the pendulum swinging back from business casual (because no one knew how to interpret it) to suits and ties again.

[SLSD]

deleted due to double posting

Edited July 7, 2018 by SLSD

[lincslady]

Here is a thought - perhaps Seabourn should have a special page on their website with photos actually illustrating what is and is not acceptable for the two dress codes. Words alone do not work - the US definition of 'pants' is totally different from the UK one, for instance. Casual is the most difficult; especially when it comes to shirts for men.

 

I think Seadream did something like this some years ago .

 

I am still of the opinion that in hot weather a dark polo shirt with white or beige cotton 'pants' looks smarter than a 'dress ' shirt without a tie. Just IMO of course. I remember how chic Jackie O used to look in her black tees and white pants. Too long ago for most to remember!

[jenidallas]

By the way, my husband's law firm at one time moved to business casual--and then back again. Very interesting. He is retired now and for the last few years DID wear his jeans and boots to work unless he had to appear in court. Senior partners could get by with that and he did. I remember the memos about the pendulum swinging back from business casual (because no one knew how to interpret it) to suits and ties again.

 

We moved from pseudo-business casual (no suits/ties required in the office) to jeans on Fridays to very business casual (jeans everyday, relaxed in-office dress code). I still find it very awkward... but the Millennials love it. Most of us in the leadership ranks have struggled to adjust.

 

I just recently did a massive closet clean-out and donated almost 20 suits... just not something I wear often anymore, even to clients. Thankfully there are great design groups that have popped up to create elegant client-appropriate business wear.

 

As far as the social wardrobe goes, I laugh that some of my friends feel they can’t wear an outfit twice if they got photographed in it the first time (and with so many self-proclaimed lifestyle gurus out there, it seems like more and more brunches are suddenly rebroadcast for days afterwards on blogs, Instagram feeds, etc.. it’s crazy). I don’t personally share the same point of view... and plus, with sites like RTR where you can rent current season designer, I find little reason for actually purchasing things I don’t plan to wear more than a couple times. And no excuse to not have occasion-appropriate wear.

[JPH814]

Not sure why the short sleeve vs long sleeve under a suit jacket/ sports jacket is an issue. As long as you have the jacket on, who knows?

 

 

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[SLSD]

I was merely giving a definition for "dress shirt" from the point of view of someone in the United States.

 

But, at the same time, I found this: "The short-sleeved dress shirt worn as a dress shirt is an abomination, but a fitted, untucked version can look good with jeans.Jun 4, 2010

Short sleeve dress shirts, are they ever ok? | Styleforum

 

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/short-sleeve-dress-shirts-are-they-ever-ok.183598/"

 

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by SLSD

[SLSD]

I hope people realize that i am just having a bit of fun with the short sleeve issue.

[Roxburgh]

When you are sitting in a non-air conditioned office and the temperature outside is 85F (30C), a long sleeved shirt not only loses its allure but also its structural integrity.

[Robisan]

When you are sitting in a non-air conditioned office and the temperature outside is 85F (30C), a long sleeved shirt not only loses its allure but also its structural integrity.

As does occasionally the person wearing it.

[DUHCAR]

I hope people realize that i am just having a bit of fun with the short sleeve issue.

A Seabourn “dress code” thread is no place to have fun. This is tantamount to treason! :)

[SLSD]

I'm beginning to enjoy these dress code threads. Very entertaining. And the idea that different words describing dress mean different things to different people makes these threads even more fun! LOTS of possibilities.

[Robisan]

We moved from pseudo-business casual (no suits/ties required in the office) to jeans on Fridays ...

Casual Fridays: The beginning of the decline of Western Civilization or the liberation of mankind from pantyhose, constricting top shirt buttons and dry cleaners?

 

Discuss.

[Jim Avery]

I'm beginning to enjoy these dress code threads. Very entertaining. And the idea that different words describing dress mean different things to different people makes these threads even more fun! LOTS of possibilities.

Certainly geography counts too. I spent a lot of years living at a beach town in the Florida Panhandle. Fancy dress might mean new flip flops and t-shirt there. Yes, I have a tuxedo and dress appropriately in the evening just saying how different areas have different ideas about "dress up"..:cool:

[Pavovsky]

Went shopping over the weekend. Got myself a new sports coat which fits right into the dress code.

 

 

 

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[Tillylovesseabourn]

Love it!

[markham]

Pavovsky,

 

That’s an exquisite find and will look great on you, no doubt, in the MDR following cocktails at the Club and Obs Bar.

 

While I cannot make out the size and the retail price on the tag, I hope it fits your shape and is not too tight. The jacket won’t expand during your cruise as you do. And I trust you removed the price tag and security device so no one will be moved to gossip about them behind your back, while expressing appreciation for your good taste.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[Heather White]

Certainly geography counts too. I spent a lot of years living at a beach town in the Florida Panhandle. Fancy dress might mean new flip flops and t-shirt there. Yes, I have a tuxedo and dress appropriately in the evening just saying how different areas have different ideas about "dress up"..:cool:

 

Here is another example of different interpretations of clothing terms. An American friend arrived at our London Fancy Dress party in a very elegant tux (or DJ as we would say.) He was taken aback to see an odd assortment of guests, Henry Vlll, a clown, and Tarzan amongst others. I think he said that he would call that a Costme party?

[Heather White]

Costume, not Costme!