Royal Caribbean banning emotional support animals

[keithm]

I agree, there should be some sort of registration; ala, handicap license plates, but if you talk with any of the service dog organizations, many don't want this, because they feel (which I don't quite understand) is that the privacy of the person with the dog is at risk.

 

One of my friends took his dog, Katie, on her first airline trip and they said they will never do it again, because of the untrained emotional support dogs and their behavior, which is so unfortunate that he will never fly again.

 

No, I've never had to separate a fight between a service dog (who are trained not to fight back) and an emotional support dog, but I don't think it is up to individuals to interrogate people with dogs, since one wouldn't know who has a true service dog and an emotional support or faker dog. It should be left up to the authorities. What we can do is write letters to our local, state and national governments and ask them to do something about the fakers and ask for a national service dog registration.

The fight by the way was between a service dog & a large Pitbull mix. The service dog nearly had to get put down. The cost to the owner with the Phony "service" dog amounted to well over $100K between medical bills & pain & suffering law suit.. I feel you are absolutely correct in writing to govt. officials about setting up a legit service dog registration. States are at least starting to take action on this, as it should be. Banning emotional support animals, or at least caging them on airlines would be a great step.

[keithm]

Before we go around the bend on officious govt idiots should require documents and thinking we can intervene and ask questions, it is the people cheating that are the issue. If they are going to get service vests, they are going to get a fake document. They are the problem not the program. And confronting, or asking questions? That’s all a disabled person needs is us playing investigator.Kind of like the current situation where neighbors are calling 911 because a black fireman was going door to door checking the neighborhood.

 

And what happens if they ignore you, which is what I’d do, or not respond the way you think they should? Nothing. You are going to embarrass or harass the legit person and you aren’t going to shame the perpetrator. The lady with the lap dog or in the carriage or barking pet doesnt care. She knows everyone knows she’s faking it.

 

When I saw the pet in the restaurant, and I started to get upset, my wife reminded me, that is what the lady wants, so sit back and enjoy our situation and ignore her idiocy. The only ones really being inconvenienced is the waitstaff and that’s the decison of the restaurant/company/Cruise Line.

 

I think I’ve taken “Don Quiote” to heart more and have quit jousting windmills. I remember when Don Q’s family wanted to lock him away and sang “We Are Only Thinking Of Him!”. Great reminder.....for me.

 

Den

I'm in the food industry, so having "pets" around food is NOT a good thing. Yes, I've done the pic snap & "fake" reporting to the police as well as the $2000 fine & 6 mo. in jail for fraud. Hate to say, every time I did it, it worked. It's easy to spot the fake. A service animal is well trained, the fakes obviously are not.

[keithm]

As I said earlier there are a lot if videos on this subject and the ignorance of store keepers, police, owners of dogs and just people confronting dogs legitimate or not. Would anyone get arrested because you saw an actual service dog and didn’t want to enter the establishment. Check the videos.

There's a pub in Woodstock, VT that has a sign on the door simply saying that service dogs are allowed but that emotional pets are not. It goes into pretty good detail differentiating the 2. I asked the mgr. about it & he said it works fine. He said the main problem was dealing with out of town tourists who insist on bring their pets in. He calls the police & they take care of the problem. I don't remember the name of the place, but it's on the same side as the Woodstock Inn.

[Waterluv]

Great move RCCL!! Hopefully the airlines follow and fast. People are definitely abusing and making a complete mockery of a real need for a small few. I’m sure no one has a problem with a person that has a disability and requires a trained dog. I think it was a good decision

[Nebr.cruiser]

We have been on a cruise with a true service animal (blind owner) and another with perhaps 6-8 seeing eye dogs; their owners were in a group, with family members, All the dogs were impeccably behaved; there was an area on the promenade deck--large box with wood mulch--on each cruise for the animals' sanitary habits.

 

I have seen several 'support' dogs as well. One at least was obviously just a pet and was allowed to run all over different venues, much like any small pet dog. I wasn't particularly bothered, but I could see some people were.

 

I see no reason support animals shouldn't be registered, licensed and actually trained, as true service dogs are. I can also see no reason anyone who truly needed one wouldn't be glad to go through the process. Refusing to do this, or getting some fake certification should disallow the pet.

 

I know that there are many people who do have small service animals for legitimate reasons, such as seizure detection. It's too bad that the selfish who just want to take their pet along manage to muddy the waters for the true need.

[RDC1]

Thank you for your response. I see the usefulness of a trained service dog for someone whose diabetes is so severe that he wouldn’t be able to live alone otherwise. However, that person probably wouldn’t feel up to traveling, especially if he also requires renal dialysis.

 

I queried my diabetic friends & family last night. They prefer being able to live their lives as normally as possible, and two travel quite frequently for both work and holidays. So, no they don’t want service dogs. They’ve eagerly awaited non-invasive glucose monitoring devices, at least one of which was approved by the FDA last year. The new devices have pros and cons, but some diabetics do use them successfully.

 

I think many people inaccurately use the term “service dog” when referring to both trained service dogs and companion dogs. The purpose of a trained service dog is to allow someone who would not otherwise be able to function independently to have the most normal life possible. Untrained pets do provide emotional support, but pet owners do not require their pets with them to function independently. I missed my dogs when I traveled, but I never felt that my quality of life (or my ability to function independently) was degraded while I was separated from them.

 

Trained service dogs belong with their owners on planes, trains and cruise ships. Companion animals belong with pet sitters, or in kennels, when their owners travel. I applaud Royal Caribbean for stemming the ridiculous proliferation of companion animals being pushed around their ships in prams.

 

 

Just as a point to note. My friend does not require dialysis. Not sure how that ever entered into the discussion.

 

He also traveled frequently. He was an exec with a pharmaceutical company. The dog did accompany on those travels. Though not on all international trips. It was actually at a meeting in Tokyo where I saw, first hand, a case of where his blood sugar dropped during a meeting and the dog was not present to warn him. The first indication the rest of us had was that his speech started to slur and he started to act like he was intoxicated. Very slow reactions and brain function. Fortunately there were also 3 MD's in the same meeting. Was interesting to see them try and get him to sip a soft drink, while his reasoning was so impacted that he could see that it was a sugared soft drink and as such something he normally had to avoid, but could not understand that his blood sugar was low and he needed to drink some.

[Silkroad]

Just as a point to note. My friend does not require dialysis. Not sure how that ever entered into the discussion.

 

He also traveled frequently. He was an exec with a pharmaceutical company. The dog did accompany on those travels. Though not on all international trips. It was actually at a meeting in Tokyo where I saw, first hand, a case of where his blood sugar dropped during a meeting and the dog was not present to warn him. The first indication the rest of us had was that his speech started to slur and he started to act like he was intoxicated. Very slow reactions and brain function. Fortunately there were also 3 MD's in the same meeting. Was interesting to see them try and get him to sip a soft drink, while his reasoning was so impacted that he could see that it was a sugared soft drink and as such something he normally had to avoid, but could not understand that his blood sugar was low and he needed to drink some.

The same way this entire topic entered the discussion. Some people went off the original topic, and others followed. You’ve made your point. You’re off topic, as am I. I’ll apologize to those following the original thread for my off topic posts, and drop the subject now.

[Toofarfromthesea]

To me, this is analogous to the unruly children problem.

 

If 'emotional support' pets were subject to the same level of obedience training as service animals I think the complaints would dwindle down to just those with animal allergy problems. It is the behavior of the owner and animal that cause the problem. True service animals are some of the best trained animals around and normally will almost completely unobtrusive. Except for those with allergies the problem is not with the presence of the animal, but it's behavior - and the owner's behavior.

[keithm]

So, in your grand omniscience you have an infallible knowledge of exactly who is or who is not a fraud. You can tell at a glance with 100% accuracy that a dog is not there because his person has diabetes, epilepsy, or PTSD. And only a fraudster would become upset with some nosy, confrontational stranger who has no business demanding answers to anything, let alone something as deeply personal as their medical history? You're willing to confront anyone with a dog, because in YOUR opinion they are a fake? Sorry, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. And the harassment you admit to is not right.

 

I truly hope you meet my DDs BIL and his dog one day. His dog has been a godsend, as he has suffered from PTSD after being injured by an IED in Afghanistan years ago. On a bad day, if you confronted him in such an intrusive manner, you would likely find yourself staring up at him from the floor. On a good day, especially if the dog was on his toes, he'd probably just ask for security or cops to charge you with harassment and haul you away.

I'm sure you dog fits the overall bill. If you don't like it when people call out the phonies then too bad. I've not called out the fakes often, but I've called out a few, like the mutt that hopped onto my table to snatch food from my plate. That person was lucky they & their dog didn't get kicked to the moon. No service or emotional support animal would do that (if they were in fact legit) A simple way to solve this, is to issue state cards like a drivers license. Each card could identify the type of animal needed either service or emotional support. End of story.

[keithm]

To me, this is analogous to the unruly children problem.

 

If 'emotional support' pets were subject to the same level of obedience training as service animals I think the complaints would dwindle down to just those with animal allergy problems. It is the behavior of the owner and animal that cause the problem. True service animals are some of the best trained animals around and normally will almost completely unobtrusive. Except for those with allergies the problem is not with the presence of the animal, but it's behavior - and the owner's behavior.

The fakes are easy to spot. MOM needs to get a life & realize there are a lot of people who like to game the system & sometimes others need to call those frauds out.

[NLH Arizona]

The fakes are easy to spot. MOM needs to get a life & realize there are a lot of people who like to game the system & sometimes others need to call those frauds out.

An emotional support animal that goes into a public building is a fake. Emotional support dogs are not service dogs and are not covered under the ADA rules and regulations and are not allowed in public buildings. Emotional support dogs are basically pets that offer emotional support to their owners, whereas service dogs are trained to do a task for the owner who has a disability..

[SoCalTraveler]

On our last flight from Dallas to LAX on Southwest, there were 7 emotional suppport animals. 7. All dogs. None of them were service dogs. Two owners managed to board and get the front bulkhead seats, which allowed some additional area for the two large dogs (80-100 lbs) to lie down. Of course, that took away from the foot room for the other bulkhead passengers. The other five were scattered about, inclding 1 other large dog.

 

Since we typically sit in the exit row on Southwest (trading the inability to recline for the additional leg room) the dogs were not in our row. However, there were arguments about them, including the late boards (C Group) who got stuck in the front bulkhead setas (usually very desirable) but had no leg room, and no place for their carry-ons except at the back of the plane. One guy wanted to use his laptop, but could not stow it overhead were he could retirieve it at above 10,000 feet. Ultimately, the flight crew stowed it forward for him.

 

On the flight to Dallas, we had two emotional support dogs, one large Dalmatian, and one small lap dog. They quite enjoyed barking at each other. Did you know that inside a 737 a dog's bark can be heard all over the plane over the roar of the engines? The flight was full, and the Dalmatian liked to stand guard in the aisle. There certainly wasn't room for him in the full seat row. That was about 3 rows behind us. We knew the Dalmatian was an emotional support dog because he wore a vest which said so.

 

This "emotional support" animal business is out of hand.

[keithm]

An emotional support animal that goes into a public building is a fake. Emotional support dogs are not service dogs and are not covered under the ADA rules and regulations and are not allowed in public buildings. Emotional support dogs are basically pets that offer emotional support to their owners, whereas service dogs are trained to do a task for the owner who has a disability..

I think we just have a state issued(Govt. backed REAL ID)card like a drivers license stating what is what. It will weed out the majority of fakes(which now IS the majority) & show who has a proper Service animal & who has a proper Emotional support animal. The service animals can travel anywhere. The emotional support can as well, but are restricted to only certain venues. Write your legislators & demand it be done!

[keithm]

So, in your grand omniscience you have an infallible knowledge of exactly who is or who is not a fraud. You can tell at a glance with 100% accuracy that a dog is not there because his person has diabetes, epilepsy, or PTSD. And only a fraudster would become upset with some nosy, confrontational stranger who has no business demanding answers to anything, let alone something as deeply personal as their medical history? You're willing to confront anyone with a dog, because in YOUR opinion they are a fake? Sorry, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. And the harassment you admit to is not right.

 

I truly hope you meet my DDs BIL and his dog one day. His dog has been a godsend, as he has suffered from PTSD after being injured by an IED in Afghanistan years ago. On a bad day, if you confronted him in such an intrusive manner, you would likely find yourself staring up at him from the floor. On a good day, especially if the dog was on his toes, he'd probably just ask for security or cops to charge you with harassment and haul you away.

Is the dog, by the way a "properly trained Emotional Support" dog, or really just a trusted pet? There IS a difference. By the way I do NOT just confront anyone. I take a good long look before I say anything. I carefully watch how the dog behaves around the owner & in all cases I've been spot on. So let's not try to cast me as the bully. Reading the results on this thread show you're in the vast minority. Try watching the show "What would you do". You might learn a little, instead of just mouthing off.

[Luvcrusn]

Is the dog, by the way a "properly trained Emotional Support" dog, or really just a trusted pet? There IS a difference. By the way I do NOT just confront anyone. I take a good long look before I say anything. I carefully watch how the dog behaves around the owner & in all cases I've been spot on. So let's not try to cast me as the bully. Reading the results on this thread show you're in the vast minority. Try watching the show "What would you do". You might learn a little, instead of just mouthing off.

On various threads you've mentioned confronting fellow cruisers about smoking, chair hogging, dressing improperly and emotional support animals. Although there are abuses of all these things a suggestion is just leave the policing to staff and relax and enjoy your cruises.:)

[mom says]

Is the dog, by the way a "properly trained Emotional Support" dog, or really just a trusted pet? There IS a difference. By the way I do NOT just confront anyone. I take a good long look before I say anything. I carefully watch how the dog behaves around the owner & in all cases I've been spot on. So let's not try to cast me as the bully. Reading the results on this thread show you're in the vast minority. Try watching the show "What would you do". You might learn a little, instead of just mouthing off.

 

How incredibly rude. Something I've come to expect from your posts. You really do sound like a mean bully. Im not in favor of anyone abusing the accommodations for emotional support animals. But. You like to present yourself as some self important busybody poking their nose where it doesn't belong. You have no right to do that, and you have no authority to do that. Instead of making a spectacle of yourself, why not channel your outrage into something constructive, like lobbying for documentation for service animals?

Oh, and the dog I referred to is a fully trained support dog, not a pet. His person suffers from PTSD, and his dog is covered under ADA regulations.

Edited August 17, 2018 by mom says

[keithm]

How incredibly rude. Something I've come to expect from your posts. You really do sound like a mean bully. Im not in favor of anyone abusing the accommodations for emotional support animals. But. You like to present yourself as some self important busybody poking their nose where it doesn't belong. You have no right to do that, and you have no authority to do that. Instead of making a spectacle of yourself, why not channel your outrage into something constructive, like lobbying for documentation for service animals?

Oh, and the dog I referred to is a fully trained support dog, not a pet. His person suffers from PTSD, and his dog is covered under ADA regulations.

Documentation of service animals? You didn't read my post? I've said to have a "license" type card issued by the state. There's your proper documentation. I & anyone else does have the right to question improper behavior. "The only way for evil to flourish is for the good to do nothing." I did not make that quote. If people don't speak up, then it just makes everyone else an enabler.

[keithm]

On various threads you've mentioned confronting fellow cruisers about smoking, chair hogging, dressing improperly and emotional support animals. Although there are abuses of all these things a suggestion is just leave the policing to staff and relax and enjoy your cruises.:)

As to smoking, it was in relation to that post about a guy who's holding his cigar over on the neighbor's side of the balcony & blowing the smoke there. Dressing improperly: Guy in skanky shorts on the QM2 on formal night. Chair hogging: I wait & then sit in a chair. If the owner shows up later, sorry but no one "owns" a chair on a ship. You leave for a hour, expect to lose the chair. Plenty of pax do the same. Service/emotional support animals: Sorry but people DO need to speak up about fraud. Sorry, but a dog in a stroller is NOT an service dog. It's a pet. Thank God "Publix" markets finally has the balls to do something about the scam: It's called "4 on the floor". No more pets in strollers. If it's a service dog, it walks with the owner or they are told to leave. With the exception of the fakers, support has been overwhelming.

[Mynki]

To be honest in the UK I had never seen or heard of an emotional support dog until I read CC.

Sorry, to me it is ridiculous. GOOD decision RCI and hope that other US lines follow. Looking on from outside the USA we have often said 'Only in America' (no offense) and are glad that someone 'over the pond' has seen sense.

 

 

PS Hubby has just suggested that folk "take a teddy bear" If needs be --- sorry, made me laugh and I couldn't agree more. My 2 small ones come along every year .... but they stay in the cabin !!!

 

I only discovered the existence of emotional support animals after reading posts on here too! The whole idea is ridiculous to me.

 

I was also genuinely astounded that a pig had been allowed to board a plane with its owner as an 'emotional support animal'!

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/30/travel/emotional-support-pig-booted-flight/index.html

 

How this happened is beyond me. Apart from the obvious health and safety risks when the inevitable happens you've got to ask yourself is it fair on the pig? Surely it would rather be outside with its own kind doing what the species is hard wired to do than be carted around a brightly lit and noisy, busy airport. Surely the animals psychological welfare will be affected by this environment? I wonder if the moron who owns it sees the irony?

[dkjretired]

Documentation of service animals? You didn't read my post? I've said to have a "license" type card issued by the state. There's your proper documentation. I & anyone else does have the right to question improper behavior. "The only way for evil to flourish is for the good to do nothing." I did not make that quote. If people don't speak up, then it just makes everyone else an enabler.

 

Which would be illegal to ask for documentation even if the state issued the ID. Federal law trumps state law. If you question someone, they have no obligation to answer you. I have better things to do than get into arguments on a cruise, dealt with that crap for 30 years. Just go on a cruise and enjoy yourself.

[hcat]

On our last flight from Dallas to LAX on Southwest, there were 7 emotional suppport animals. 7. All dogs. None of them were service dogs. Two owners managed to board and get the front bulkhead seats, which allowed some additional area for the two large dogs (80-100 lbs) to lie down. Of course, that took away from the foot room for the other bulkhead passengers. The other five were scattered about, inclding 1 other large dog.

 

Since we typically sit in the exit row on Southwest (trading the inability to recline for the additional leg room) the dogs were not in our row. However, there were arguments about them, including the late boards (C Group) who got stuck in the front bulkhead setas (usually very desirable) but had no leg room, and no place for their carry-ons except at the back of the plane. One guy wanted to use his laptop, but could not stow it overhead were he could retirieve it at above 10,000 feet. Ultimately, the flight crew stowed it forward for him.

 

On the flight to Dallas, we had two emotional support dogs, one large Dalmatian, and one small lap dog. They quite enjoyed barking at each other. Did you know that inside a 737 a dog's bark can be heard all over the plane over the roar of the engines? The flight was full, and the Dalmatian liked to stand guard in the aisle. There certainly wasn't room for him in the full seat row. That was about 3 rows behind us. We knew the Dalmatian was an emotional support dog because he wore a vest which said so.

 

This "emotional support" animal business is out of hand.

 

Southwest has been the worst with too many animals who are pets running loose versus service animals.

 

They also seem to let anyone who asks have the FREE blue early boarding pass...no drs note required. While many seem legit and in need of extra time,,,many others sprint off the plane and reject the wheelchair waiting for them. Nickname is Lourdes airline... they cite ADA butI think there is a fed airline law,.even more liberal than ADA.

 

Anyone who fakes it, ruins it for those who truly need assistance!

[1980dory]

To be honest in the UK I had never seen or heard of an emotional support dog until I read CC.

Sorry, to me it is ridiculous. GOOD decision RCI and hope that other US lines follow. Looking on from outside the USA we have often said 'Only in America' (no offense) and are glad that someone 'over the pond' has seen sense.

 

Just to make it clear --- we have nothing other than the utmost respect for Guide Dogs for the Blind in the UK (know one very well .. woof) and Hearing Dogs for the Deaf etc as well as recognised dog support - what you would call service dogs in the US I imagine

 

I find that some people just take advantage and have read about the so called ES Dogs with open jaws. Unreal.

 

We have pets that we stress about leaving at home but they stay at home ---- well, in the K - E- N - N- E- L- S --- shhhhh

 

PS Hubby has just suggested that folk "take a teddy bear" If needs be --- sorry, made me laugh and I couldn't agree more. My 2 small ones come along every year .... but they stay in the cabin !!!

 

Excellent observations. You Brits are so level headed! And I really love the teddy bear suggestion. Why not include a pacifier to suck on while holding holding the teddy bear??? Very placating, at least when I was 2 years old. Perhaps the adults could substitute those items for a dog!

Just think; emotional support for the owner and harmless entertainment for other cruisers who can observe. No poop or pee on the floors, no barking, no biting, no growling, no contamination of food surfaces in eating venues, etc., etc.

In fact, the cruise lines could offer pacifiers as incentive percs instead of OBC, etc. to sell cruises.

 

BOOK WITHIN 30 DAYS AND GET FREE PACIFIER! BOOK WITHIN 7 DAYS AND GET A FREE PACIFIER AND A FREE TEDDY BEAR! ACT NOW! LIMITED TIME OFFER! BE THE ENVY OF OTHERS WHO MISSED THIS GREAT OFFER!*

 

*our cruise line understands your needs and will make any effort to accommodate your desire for emotional support services. Just ask for our TB&PP (Teddy Bear and Pacifier Package)

[NLH Arizona]

Southwest has been the worst with too many animals who are pets running loose versus service animals.

 

They also seem to let anyone who asks have the FREE blue early boarding pass...no drs note required. While many seem legit and in need of extra time,,,many others sprint off the plane and reject the wheelchair waiting for them. Nickname is Lourdes airline... they cite ADA butI think there is a fed airline law,.even more liberal than ADA.

 

Anyone who fakes it, ruins it for those who truly need assistance!

The ADA only covers true service dogs, it does not recognize emotional support animals (from ADA: Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.), so if anyone is citing the ADA with regard to emotional support dogs, they are incorrect.

 

Emotional support dogs fall under two laws and they are the Air Carriers Access Act (ACAA), which allows animals to fly free on airlines and the Fair Housing Act (FHA), which allows emotional support animals in housing that doesn't allow animals and these are the only two laws surrounding emotional support animals and the only places they are allowed. Whereas, under ADA rules and regulations, a service dog can go anywhere, including public buildings, etc.

 

Also, there is no government national registry for a service dog and even if a state says they require an ID, the federal law (which clearly states there is no ID needed) supersedes any city or state laws.

 

The Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 requires the landlord/property manager to make a reasonable accommodation to their policies and procedures allowing the tenant to have the emotional support animal. The Air Carriers Access Act allows for mentally or emotionally disabled persons to be accompanied on flights by an emotional support animal.

[lambcom]

On our Baltic cruise on the Silhouette last year, a passenger insisted on bringing his emotional support dog (a shivering toy poodle) on our tour of the Hermitage Museum. When we arrived the museum refused to let the dog in. A verbal fistfight ensued between the guide, the museum officials and the dog owner that went on for 45 minutes while we all stood in the lobby. Finally, the dog owner and dog returned to the bus, but our tour was cut short by 45 minutes as a result. NO MORE EMOTIONAL SUPPORT DOGS!!!

[Mynki]

On our Baltic cruise on the Silhouette last year, a passenger insisted on bringing his emotional support dog (a shivering toy poodle) on our tour of the Hermitage Museum. When we arrived the museum refused to let the dog in. A verbal fistfight ensued between the guide, the museum officials and the dog owner that went on for 45 minutes while we all stood in the lobby. Finally, the dog owner and dog returned to the bus, but our tour was cut short by 45 minutes as a result. NO MORE EMOTIONAL SUPPORT DOGS!!!

 

 

I'm genuinely surprised the dog got past Russian immigration.