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Rick Steves - How not to be that kind of traveler


evandbob
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One thing I will always appreciate about being a Navy Family is the emphasis on 'blending in' when stationed overseas. you get like a week of indoctrination that shows you how to interact with the locals without annoying them to no end. it made our travels to other locals much more enjoyable.

Son spent two years in Yokosuka and 1 1/2 years in Bahrain and found these sessions invaluable, since as a junior officer he was expected to live off base (adding to the local economy). It was especially important in Bahrain during Ramadan. In Yokosuka, he met the owner of a small restaurant down the street from his house who was trying to learn English by watching old westerns. Son would stop by after work to have dinner; he would learn some Japanese and the restaurant owner would learn some English.
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Interesting points of view. Over the years my family has done a lot of independent land travel, river cruises, "small" ships like Lindblad. I lived in France for 3 months and visited regularly for years. However as my parents age and my mom has severe arthritis and mobility issues, cruising has become a good option. We do a mix of independent and ship "bus" tours because most offer accessibility, not because we don't want to "immerse" into the culture. Particularly in Europe where not every where has access for someone with a walker.

 

 

 

Yes, the way one travels may change as they age. As our cruise ship goes from port to port. I sometimes compare it to visiting Epcot in Disney World. You get a flavor for the place you visit but you don’t get the full experience. That doesn’t make it bad. We love cruising! We generally do a combination of cruising and independent travel.

Independent travel teaches tolerance. It shows you that there are ways to do things other than your own. It broadens your worldview. We learn a lot talking to taxi drivers and shopkeepers. It gives you a better feel of the place you are visiting but I would not say we ever “immersed” into a culture. For that you need to live in a place. Our DD studied abroad and she experienced cultural immersion. Today, short-tern visitors can stay in air b&bs located in neighborhoods where the locals live and get a more authentic experience, but we still like the hotel experience.

My advise to friends is that they should not do pre-cruise/post-cruise through the ship. They should plan it themselves or with a good travel agent. Research where you want to stay, eat and what you want to see. It’s fun to go to visit your house of worship in a foreign place. We often do that. CC is an incredible resource for trip planning . The “ports of call”section is packed with information. Planning your own trip provides a more personal,authentic experience and it will cost less too lol. Just my two cents. However, there is no wrong way to travel. Just stay safe and be courteous to those around you.

 

 

 

 

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I do wonder if "bubble travel" is as harmless as some posters suggest:confused:. When I have travelled to destinations that attracts a lot of big organised tours I find there is one of two things usually happening. The destination either emulates the place of origin of whatever is the largest tourist group, whether it is by bringing in their popular franchise or putting their food on the menu or even designing streets and buildings that look like they could have come from their country. Or the destination plays heavily into the stereotypes of their culture because they find the visitors respond really positively to it and seem to somewhat expect it:o. Developing countries I've noticed seem to do this the most.

 

While these things do seem to help businesses sell more stuff to tourists I do kind of think that it is bit of a negative that some places seem to feel pressured to conform to the ideas of what the visitor expects of them rather than the visitor just appreciating or accepting the place for what it is.

I've seen pandering to cultural stereotypes to satisfy the expectations of people on organized tours in Africa and the South Pacific. It is demeaning and offensive. That young man or woman who entertained you with a "traditional dance" to earn a few dollars doesn't dress in traditional costume when you are not there and will probably use the money to buy a new smart phone.

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If she insisted on getting a Diet Coke and walked out of a restaurant over it; I think you are giving her entirely too much credit towards her adapting to her situation. True, she may not like Coca Cola light but there are certainly other beverages available; which she found unacceptable. It’s an attitude that the action represents more than the action itself. She’s saying that since she can’t get the exact same product she can get at home she has no interest in the experience.

 

How often does someone come on here and say ‘I don’t tip at home and don’t believe in tipping so I won’t tip when I’m in the US’. And they get berated about the fact that customs vary based on the region and they should accept the new customs while traveling. This is no different to me. What was probably a perfectly nice restaurant lost business because this lady can’t get over herself.

 

 

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No, I'm giving her NO credit to adapting to her situation.......I just think that it's OK if she chooses not to adapt, because at least it's been a lesson for her and hopefully she'll be more adaptable in the future. Being comfortable, or even being able to, adapt to one's surroundings isn't easy for most, especially when they first try. She gets no credit for adapting (which she didn't do), she does get credit for going out there in the first place and hopefully learning something new.

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I've seen pandering to cultural stereotypes to satisfy the expectations of people on organized tours in Africa and the South Pacific. It is demeaning and offensive. That young man or woman who entertained you with a "traditional dance" to earn a few dollars doesn't dress in traditional costume when you are not there and will probably use the money to buy a new smart phone.

 

I don't particularly like that kind of thing, but I don't think it's demeaning......Well, at least it's not demeaning to them - maybe it's demeaning to the tourists. It's honest, well-paid work; acting (and/or dancing) in a theatre troupe to share a story happens all over the world, for tourists and locals. All that differs is the location and type of story.

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I've seen pandering to cultural stereotypes to satisfy the expectations of people on organized tours in Africa and the South Pacific. It is demeaning and offensive. That young man or woman who entertained you with a "traditional dance" to earn a few dollars doesn't dress in traditional costume when you are not there and will probably use the money to buy a new smart phone.

 

"Pandering to cultural stereotypes" That is just the kind of attitude that results in the Ugly Cruiser or Traveler! When folks are willing to join clubs, rehearse hours a week, etc. so that they can present some of their cultural history to tourists....they should be thanked. This is not pandering in any way shape or form. Go to the Puerto Rican Day parade in NYC and you will see the local's with a PR heritage showing-off their culture for others to enjoy. If you cruise on HAL, you will often see the Indonesian crew members taking lots of their personal time (and giving up sleep) to put on a show which features song and dance from their culture. Watching this is not pandering...but simply respecting their culture and learning.

 

You are right, that men or women do not normally dress in their traditional costumes...but they are doing it for YOU because they want you to enjoy some of their cultural heritage. If you are unwilling to accept that at face value then you have some personal issues! We live in Puerto Vallarta for part of the year (for over 12 years) and you cannot believe all the festivals, dance performances (on public squares), music, etc. that happens on a weekly basis to "Celebrate" the culture of the various peoples of Mexico. And guess what, the folks viewing those performances are a mix of Mexicans and Gringos young and old. Yes, that is right, we are all out there enjoying the hard work done by these folks in the name of showing off their amazing culture to tourists and locals alike. . By your reckoning even the Mexicans are "pandering" to their own culture. Give me a break.

 

The truth is that all this talk about "cultural misappropriation," "cultural appropriation," etc. is actually insulting the folks that truly want others to share in the joy of their cultural heritage. Your kind of talk is simply PC baloney (no insult intended to balogna lovers). Accept it for what it is,,,,,educational entertainment presented for your enjoyment...not criticism. If you ever cruise on HAL and see the Indonesian or Filipino cruise shows, talk to the performers (who are all members of the crew volunteering their free time) and ask them if they feel "demeaned" or "offended." I suspect they would feel truly offended that you would dare ask the question!

 

Speaking of culture, HAL is starting a nearly year long voyage (around most of the world) on one of their ships (Maasdam) which will be presenting all kinds of programs on the regional cultures of the areas in which they cruise. Rather then having the same ole production shows, they plan on bringing aboard local dancers, singers, lecturers, etc. to perform and speak to the cruisers. By your reckoning those of us on that voyage will be "pandering" to these folks by appreciating all the hard work they do to properly present their culture. I suspect if you were to talk to those locals who will generally be in costume and ask them "do you feel offended and demeaned" they would look at you and wonder what planet you come from! And I am sure they would be quite upset that you did not simply appreciate their performance.

 

Do you honestly think that when DW and I are relaxing at a Parisian Cafe, drinking decent French Wine, eating amazing French Cuisine, and enjoying the uniquely local atmosphere that we are "pandering" to the culture! To quote a TV personality, it sound like you have been drinking too much kool aid!

 

Hank

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You are right, that men or women do not normally dress in their traditional costumes...but they are doing it for YOU because they want you to enjoy some of their cultural heritage.

No, they are doing it because they need the money and some tour operator or local entrepreneur is paying them to do it. It is pandering to cultural stereotypes that create a false image about developing countries.

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Son spent two years in Yokosuka and 1 1/2 years in Bahrain and found these sessions invaluable, since as a junior officer he was expected to live off base (adding to the local economy). It was especially important in Bahrain during Ramadan. In Yokosuka, he met the owner of a small restaurant down the street from his house who was trying to learn English by watching old westerns. Son would stop by after work to have dinner; he would learn some Japanese and the restaurant owner would learn some English.

 

Yoko was by far my favorite duty station. we too found a mom and pop Gyoza place in Yokohama. none of them spoke a lick of English and our Japanese was limited to Biru Kudasai and Gyoza Ichi kudasai. we made it work. we were among the only Gai jin who frequented the place and gave the proprietor a Command ball cap when we left. apparently he wore it proudly for some time afterward ( yes we shared the place with others in the Wardroom)

 

JOs are not required to live off base( we didn't.) however if he was single the BOQs are very limited and there simply may not have been room for him when he arrived. what command? we also were on Okinawa and Mr spook did a 1 year IA to Qatar.

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One of the best cultural shows I've attended was in Barbados and unflinchingly depicted the history of slavery and it's subsequent abolition.

 

There were some tourists who were offended that the subject was included and vocalized that they should not be subjected to such a harsh reality while they were enjoying their vacation.

 

Meanwhile, I was thankful we attended and glad that slavery wasn't whitewashed by the presenters. It was IMO, better than most of the theater shows I've seen on a cruise ship.

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"Pandering to cultural stereotypes" That is just the kind of attitude that results in the Ugly Cruiser or Traveler! When folks are willing to join clubs, rehearse hours a week, etc. so that they can present some of their cultural history to tourists....they should be thanked. This is not pandering in any way shape or form. Go to the Puerto Rican Day parade in NYC and you will see the local's with a PR heritage showing-off their culture for others to enjoy. If you cruise on HAL, you will often see the Indonesian crew members taking lots of their personal time (and giving up sleep) to put on a show which features song and dance from their culture. Watching this is not pandering...but simply respecting their culture and learning.

 

You are right, that men or women do not normally dress in their traditional costumes...but they are doing it for YOU because they want you to enjoy some of their cultural heritage. If you are unwilling to accept that at face value then you have some personal issues! We live in Puerto Vallarta for part of the year (for over 12 years) and you cannot believe all the festivals, dance performances (on public squares), music, etc. that happens on a weekly basis to "Celebrate" the culture of the various peoples of Mexico. And guess what, the folks viewing those performances are a mix of Mexicans and Gringos young and old. Yes, that is right, we are all out there enjoying the hard work done by these folks in the name of showing off their amazing culture to tourists and locals alike. . By your reckoning even the Mexicans are "pandering" to their own culture. Give me a break.

 

The truth is that all this talk about "cultural misappropriation," "cultural appropriation," etc. is actually insulting the folks that truly want others to share in the joy of their cultural heritage. Your kind of talk is simply PC baloney (no insult intended to balogna lovers). Accept it for what it is,,,,,educational entertainment presented for your enjoyment...not criticism. If you ever cruise on HAL and see the Indonesian or Filipino cruise shows, talk to the performers (who are all members of the crew volunteering their free time) and ask them if they feel "demeaned" or "offended." I suspect they would feel truly offended that you would dare ask the question!

 

 

 

I don’t think this person was talking about cultural festivals. We were in Tanzania a few years ago and the situation there was heart breaking. In the bush, they are still primarily an agricultural community. And we saw many teens dressed in traditional garb on the side of the road looking for hand outs rather than continuing the community traditions of farming; probably because they made more doing that. Their culture and community is going down the tubes due to tourists who will pay them to take a picture in a costume.

 

 

 

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Yes, the way one travels may change as they age. As our cruise ship goes from port to port. I sometimes compare it to visiting Epcot in Disney World. You get a flavor for the place you visit but you don’t get the full experience. That doesn’t make it bad. We love cruising! We generally do a combination of cruising and independent travel.

Independent travel teaches tolerance. It shows you that there are ways to do things other than your own. It broadens your worldview. We learn a lot talking to taxi drivers and shopkeepers. It gives you a better feel of the place you are visiting but I would not say we ever “immersed” into a culture. For that you need to live in a place. Our DD studied abroad and she experienced cultural immersion. Today, short-tern visitors can stay in air b&bs located in neighborhoods where the locals live and get a more authentic experience, but we still like the hotel experience.

My advise to friends is that they should not do pre-cruise/post-cruise through the ship. They should plan it themselves or with a good travel agent. Research where you want to stay, eat and what you want to see. It’s fun to go to visit your house of worship in a foreign place. We often do that. CC is an incredible resource for trip planning . The “ports of call”section is packed with information. Planning your own trip provides a more personal,authentic experience and it will cost less too lol. Just my two cents. However, there is no wrong way to travel. Just stay safe and be courteous to those around you.

 

 

 

 

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Their culture and community is going down the tubes due to tourists who will pay them to take a picture in a costume.

 

 

 

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Or their culture and community are going down the tubes because they can't make a living at it in modern Tanzania, even if no one paid them to take pictures. Maybe getting their picture taken is the what they need to do to help keep food on the table or help their siblings go to school.

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JOs are not required to live off base( we didn't.) however if he was single the BOQs are very limited and there simply may not have been room for him when he arrived. what command? we also were on Okinawa and Mr spook did a 1 year IA to Qatar.

He was assigned to DESRON 15 on USS Fitzgerald (he left a year before the collision, but qualified as OOD while aboard her). He explained to us that as a single officer, living on base was not an option for him. He's at NPS in Monterey now, where living on base similarly is not an option - but he has a very nice apartment with a bay view. This morning he posted photos from his weekend day trip to Big Sur.:D
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I don’t think this person was talking about cultural festivals. We were in Tanzania a few years ago and the situation there was heart breaking. In the bush, they are still primarily an agricultural community. And we saw many teens dressed in traditional garb on the side of the road looking for hand outs rather than continuing the community traditions of farming; probably because they made more doing that. Their culture and community is going down the tubes due to tourists who will pay them to take a picture in a costume.

 

 

 

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I have heard others say the same thing when visiting third world countries and this is quite different than seeing a cultural performance on a tour or ship. It’s an extremely sad situation similar to Pandora’s Box, once it’s open you can’t really close it. I guess best answer is to travel with a socially responsible tour operator.

 

 

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"Pandering to cultural stereotypes" That is just the kind of attitude that results in the Ugly Cruiser or Traveler! When folks are willing to join clubs, rehearse hours a week, etc. so that they can present some of their cultural history to tourists....they should be thanked. This is not pandering in any way shape or form. Go to the Puerto Rican Day parade in NYC and you will see the local's with a PR heritage showing-off their culture for others to enjoy. If you cruise on HAL, you will often see the Indonesian crew members taking lots of their personal time (and giving up sleep) to put on a show which features song and dance from their culture. Watching this is not pandering...but simply respecting their culture and learning.

 

You are right, that men or women do not normally dress in their traditional costumes...but they are doing it for YOU because they want you to enjoy some of their cultural heritage. If you are unwilling to accept that at face value then you have some personal issues! We live in Puerto Vallarta for part of the year (for over 12 years) and you cannot believe all the festivals, dance performances (on public squares), music, etc. that happens on a weekly basis to "Celebrate" the culture of the various peoples of Mexico. And guess what, the folks viewing those performances are a mix of Mexicans and Gringos young and old. Yes, that is right, we are all out there enjoying the hard work done by these folks in the name of showing off their amazing culture to tourists and locals alike. . By your reckoning even the Mexicans are "pandering" to their own culture. Give me a break.

 

The truth is that all this talk about "cultural misappropriation," "cultural appropriation," etc. is actually insulting the folks that truly want others to share in the joy of their cultural heritage. Your kind of talk is simply PC baloney (no insult intended to balogna lovers). Accept it for what it is,,,,,educational entertainment presented for your enjoyment...not criticism. If you ever cruise on HAL and see the Indonesian or Filipino cruise shows, talk to the performers (who are all members of the crew volunteering their free time) and ask them if they feel "demeaned" or "offended." I suspect they would feel truly offended that you would dare ask the question!

 

Speaking of culture, HAL is starting a nearly year long voyage (around most of the world) on one of their ships (Maasdam) which will be presenting all kinds of programs on the regional cultures of the areas in which they cruise. Rather then having the same ole production shows, they plan on bringing aboard local dancers, singers, lecturers, etc. to perform and speak to the cruisers. By your reckoning those of us on that voyage will be "pandering" to these folks by appreciating all the hard work they do to properly present their culture. I suspect if you were to talk to those locals who will generally be in costume and ask them "do you feel offended and demeaned" they would look at you and wonder what planet you come from! And I am sure they would be quite upset that you did not simply appreciate their performance.

 

Do you honestly think that when DW and I are relaxing at a Parisian Cafe, drinking decent French Wine, eating amazing French Cuisine, and enjoying the uniquely local atmosphere that we are "pandering" to the culture! To quote a TV personality, it sound like you have been drinking too much kool aid!

 

Hank

 

Agree, I would take it a step further all this PC stuff has gone wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too far. Be yourself, enjoy your surroundings, the more authentic we are ... the more everyone has a good time.

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How many of you have ever met Rick Steves in person and had a conversation with him ?......We have...not what we expected at all...hmmmm.

 

 

 

I've met him sort of . I , too, live in Southern California and I usually go to all the travel shows when they come to town . I was sitting by myself at a large table having lunch and he asked if he could join me . He looked exhausted and I asked him if he was okay . He replied that he was fine . That was it . He was between presentations and I didn't want to intrude.

 

His mantra has always been travel cheaply and mix with the locals .

 

 

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Or their culture and community are going down the tubes because they can't make a living at it in modern Tanzania, even if no one paid them to take pictures. Maybe getting their picture taken is the what they need to do to help keep food on the table or help their siblings go to school.

 

 

 

Well, our guide was a local and was very vocal that this was a bad thing for the communities. He said he would stop for us if we wanted to but we agreed and chose not to feed into it.

 

But to get back in point. I love to be in a place when they have a heritage event or festival occurring. That is not this. This is the dumbing down of a culture to create a roadside attraction to make a quick buck by appearing to be what Americans think of as ‘african’. Personally, I would much rather see people going about their daily lives than faking it.

 

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Then stop taking tours and excursions; learn enough of the language to get by, and then drive or take public transit around on your own.

 

 

You don't even have to be fluent in any language......we got up early one morning in Sofia, Bulgaria, and walked, in the pre-dawn pitch darkness, towards the general direction of the train station, without actually knowing where it was.

 

Encountered a lady walking her dog...she had no English, we had no Bulgarian....after being unable to ask directions or convey our intent, my wife mimed pulling a steam whistle and said "Toot Toot"

 

Instant communication....with hand signals she provided perfect instructions and we were on our way. There's always common ground!

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Well, our guide was a local and was very vocal that this was a bad thing for the communities. He said he would stop for us if we wanted to but we agreed and chose not to feed into it.

 

But to get back in point. I love to be in a place when they have a heritage event or festival occurring. That is not this. This is the dumbing down of a culture to create a roadside attraction to make a quick buck by appearing to be what Americans think of as ‘african’. Personally, I would much rather see people going about their daily lives than faking it.

 

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This was more what I was referring to when it comes to playing to stereotype. Ghana is a poignant example where they have this growing art scene of unique works from local artists displaying their culture and heritage but tourists don't even look at this stuff because they complain it is not "African". They want what they consider "traditional" African art that in reality is mass produced in backyard factories by people who aren't even from the tribes the works belong to. They couldn't even tell you what the symbols mean so the heritage is lost anyway. It stiffles growth in the creative arts industry and it devalues traditional art so the traditional owners of the design can't make money out of their own heritage.

 

The problem isn't having people take pride in their culture and want to show it off to you but when it becomes a mass manufactured heritage then I think it is a little negative to a community if they feel pressured to play up to these ideas because that is what a tourist expects to see.

Edited by ilikeanswers
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You don't even have to be fluent in any language......we got up early one morning in Sofia, Bulgaria, and walked, in the pre-dawn pitch darkness, towards the general direction of the train station, without actually knowing where it was.

 

Encountered a lady walking her dog...she had no English, we had no Bulgarian....after being unable to ask directions or convey our intent, my wife mimed pulling a steam whistle and said "Toot Toot"

 

Instant communication....with hand signals she provided perfect instructions and we were on our way. There's always common ground!

Oh yes, fluency is certainly not required, but a little does help just to open doors - to show people you've made an attempt to communicate in their language, rather than expecting them to communicate in yours. I had a group of people in a small Portuguese town help me by towing my car out of a ditch and giving me correct directions, even though I only had about 10 words of Portuguese. But I think it helped a little.

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No, they are doing it because they need the money and some tour operator or local entrepreneur is paying them to do it. It is pandering to cultural stereotypes that create a false image about developing countries.

 

How is any of this different from the red coats and bearskins worn in military parades in London?

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