Libraries

[Haboob]

The book for which I was searching was not rare. It simply was not available for North Americans to purchase from any source. I have no idea why and still wonder about that.

 

North American rights to publish a book are normally sold separately from other rights, so you can figure

that something happened that left just those rights in limbo: Lawyers squabbling over the sale? Publisher

in bankruptcy? Did it happen around 2008 when suddenly the book market was much smaller and lots of

bought books didn't make it to print?. It could have been something as plebian as the author ticking off

an editor.

[rkacruiser]

Haboob,

 

Yes, it was in the 2007-2008 time frame when I began searching for the book.

 

Thanks for your possible explanation of what happened..

[Hlitner]

DW and I have mixed emotions about cruise ship libraries. We are major readers on cruises (it is our primary activity on sea days) so a library with current books is a nice thing. HAL has eliminated librarians and is gradually letting its remaining libraries die a slow death from lack of new inventory. But we also are stockholders and understand that libraries do not generate any revenue and cost money to maintain. Most readers now have various devices (we are big Kindle fans). Years ago we would carry many books (sometimes more then a dozen) in our luggage when we cruised. Now we just carry our Kindles...each of which is always loaded with over 100 unread books. Times change.

 

Hank

[SetAnOpenCourse]

About the stock. If you think the product is becoming less attractive, just dump the stock.

 

Let’s say, you hold stock in something like Dunkin Donuts, and your recent visits to their shops indicated that Boston Creme, or the old fashioned cake donut was replaced with whatever you think is just a pathetic donut. What do you do? Assume they know what they are doing and hop on the internet donut forum, and say that you support their effort to change with market demands? No, just go with your gut... dump the stock!

[camembert]

Mr Chew came in as I was beginning this post, and I told him someone had asked about the library on the Oosterdam, and he just laughed and then he said, tell them they destroyed it.

 

 

We were on the Oosterdam the month of August. No library. They have a few empty bookcases on the left side just when you go in to the Crow's Nest, labeled for the book exchange, but no books, and hardly any to be exchanged.

 

 

On the other side, near the windows at the front of the CN, taking up space & blocking the view, they've got a big wooden structure with some shelves, and a few coffee table books placed here & there on them …

 

 

Very disappointing, and a complete waste of space …

 

Shelves empty....why....one of the staff on Zuiderdam 2 weeks ago was telling me about the huge number of books being routinely stolen on HAL ships. Especially, the more expensive...who is to blame for the elimination of the librairies !!!!!

[avian777]

Shelves empty....why....one of the staff on Zuiderdam 2 weeks ago was telling me about the huge number of books being routinely stolen on HAL ships. Especially, the more expensive...who is to blame for the elimination of the librairies !!!!!

 

Spot on! (y)(y)(y) If I were to hazard a guess, it would be probably the same people who constantly complain about the services, perks and "extras" that HAL has scaled back and/or the price increases that HAL has implemented.

[RocketMan275]

I can't imagine being an avid reader and remaining dependent upon a ships library for reading material. I bring a kindle with at least six/seven books for a seven day trip. Rather doubtful I would find sufficient amount of interesting materiel in the ships library to meet my needs.

[bennybear]

Spot on! (y)(y)(y) If I were to hazard a guess, it would be probably the same people who constantly complain about the services, perks and "extras" that HAL has scaled back and/or the price increases that HAL has implemented.

Really? Blame the victim?

[albingirl]

I can't imagine being an avid reader and remaining dependent upon a ships library for reading material. I bring a kindle with at least six/seven books for a seven day trip. Rather doubtful I would find sufficient amount of interesting materiel in the ships library to meet my needs.

Agree. Reading materials are my best friend on a vacation, and I would never be without my kindle.

[rkacruiser]

Shelves empty....why....one of the staff on Zuiderdam 2 weeks ago was telling me about the huge number of books being routinely stolen on HAL ships. Especially, the more expensive...who is to blame for the elimination of the librairies !!!!!

 

And why are books being stolen? There is no librarian anymore! When one had to check books out, the ship's management knew who had what. And, if "what" was not returned, their account would be debited.

 

"Books being stolen" is a poor excuse, if it is, for the reduction/elimination of the libraries.

[avian777]

Really? Blame the victim?

 

... how is it that the person who (IMO) caused the problem is now the "victim"? :rolleyes::confused::rolleyes::confused:

[bennybear]

So to spell it out, a person who is commenting on what they perceive to be shortcomings ie the victim, is blamed for said shortcomings.

[avian777]

So to spell it out, a person who is commenting on what they perceive to be shortcomings ie the victim, is blamed for said shortcomings.

 

So to clarify what I thought was already abundantly clear: My response was to camembert's Post (quoted below), which I suggest you re-read with special attention to the portions I bolded. IMO it is the people who steal the library books who are responsible for the decline of the HAL libraries ... and, in turn, the book pilferers are "probably the same people who constantly complain about the services, perks and 'extras' that HAL has scaled back and/or the price increases that HAL has implemented." Does that help? :)

 

 

Shelves empty....why....one of the staff on Zuiderdam 2 weeks ago was telling me about the huge number of books being routinely stolen on HAL ships. Especially, the more expensive...who is to blame for the elimination of the librairies !!!!!

[sammiedawg]

Other cruise lines maintain fully stocked libraries without an attendant in the room. But they actually invest money to continually buy newly released books. I routinely find current best sellers and/or new and notable books.

 

Some attrition of books is inevitable, books can be lost, damaged, misplaced by the reader and accidentally packed. I don’t believe there is mass theft, I just don’t.

If Holland America experiences mass theft, perhaps they are fire sailing too many $399 weeks. Higher prices might improve the onboard experience and keep the riff raff out.

[avian777]

... If Holland America experiences mass theft, perhaps they are fire sailing too many $399 weeks. Higher prices might improve the onboard experience and keep the riff raff out.

 

(y)(y)(y) I think you may have hit on something!!! Great suggestion.

[EDLOS]

And why are books being stolen? There is no librarian anymore! When one had to check books out, the ship's management knew who had what. And, if "what" was not returned, their account would be debited.

 

"Books being stolen" is a poor excuse, if it is, for the reduction/elimination of the libraries.

 

On a recent Brand X cruise line, all books were locked behind glass doors, with a sign that said you may check out and/or return books each day between 2 and 4 PM. An attendant would arrive for the two hour window. There was also a drop box for returning books. The library itself was a quiet comfortable oasis all day.

They also still had a computer nerd to assist you with tech problems. I just don't know how they stay in business with all that overhead. I am sailing that line again in November and again in January.

It's a mainstream line with prices as low and sometimes lower than HAL

I am keeping it secret so all those Riff-Raff book thiefs on HAL don't get wind of it !

Edited September 29, 2018 by EDLOS
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[Hlitner]

Other cruise lines maintain fully stocked libraries without an attendant in the room. But they actually invest money to continually buy newly released books. I routinely find current best sellers and/or new and notable books.

 

Some attrition of books is inevitable, books can be lost, damaged, misplaced by the reader and accidentally packed. I don’t believe there is mass theft, I just don’t.

If Holland America experiences mass theft, perhaps they are fire sailing too many $399 weeks. Higher prices might improve the onboard experience and keep the riff raff out.

 

So which are those "other" cruise lines. We have cruised on 14 lines and the only one that had a really decent library was Cunard (especially on the Queen Mary 2). Other mass market lines (and HAL is simply another mass market line) have small to nearly non-existent libraries. For example, Celebrity actually has a room they call a "Library" on many of it's ships but the book selection is awful. Princess is in the process of upgrading all their ships (and it is taking too long) to provide a 21st Century interactive experience including reasonably priced (free to their loyal cruisers) high speed internet. Recently when we were on the Regal Princess, which now has high speed internet, we noticed that nearly everyone was sitting around looking at a device...be it their phone or a tablet. Many were also reading off those devices. It was unusual to see anyone sitting around with a real book. Times change. I suspect there are still some HAL cruisers who think that the ships should be pulled by a team of swimming horses but that is just not how it works.

 

The problem with ship libraries is that a decent library takes up lots of space, takes staff to maintain, and is expensive. Unlike a public library, on a ship you are dealing a large group of cruisers who are on the ship for a limited period of time. Even if you stock a library with 2 copies of the NYT Best Seller list that would only serve a few dozen cruisers out of more then 1000 (on most ships). Provide high speed internet, which gives everyone the ability to download any book for their device and you have given the entire ship the ability to read those same books. Also consider that my own Kindle can hold around 2000 books which is more then nearly all ship libraries. And that is just a small device that costs less then $100.

 

Hank

[Mabs]

I also do not like seeing the libraries going out, it is something that we enjoy on the ships. At the very least we hope they keep the book exchange, we always bring at least a dozen books, some already read that we can drop off and pick up a few new ones. I usually read at least 2 or 3 books a week as there is not much else to do anymore.

[Haboob]

This is getting kind of silly.

 

Cruise lines are not philanthropic organizations. Their purpose in life and fiduciary duty is to generate the best

profit for their stockholders. (We can argue about short-term vs long-term, but not that basic tenet.)

 

Libraries on board are justified directly by the fares they attract, and indirectly by the reputation they build

and the fares that reputation attracts. With ebooks, fewer folks stop to ask "Is there a library aboard?" when

they choose a voyage, and fewer folks, in general, are impressed or not depending upon whether or not

there is a library aboard a ship.

 

The trend toward no libraries has been in progress since HAL installed TVs in cabins.

[kazu]

Other cruise lines maintain fully stocked libraries without an attendant in the room. But they actually invest money to continually buy newly released books. I routinely find current best sellers and/or new and notable books.

 

Some attrition of books is inevitable, books can be lost, damaged, misplaced by the reader and accidentally packed. I don’t believe there is mass theft, I just don’t.

If Holland America experiences mass theft, perhaps they are fire sailing too many $399 weeks. Higher prices might improve the onboard experience and keep the riff raff out.

 

We might disagree from time to time sammie ;). But on this post I am in 100% agreement. I don't see massive theft either. I've always returned my books whether I signed for them or just took them (as is the new system). Who wants the weight going home? LOL

 

Even Oceania Riviera had a library - no librarian and books were piled waiting to be put away (I just put my read ones back on the shelves where they belonged) but the library was decent, people were enjoying the space and the books. :D and like the new HAL system, you didn't sign just took the book and returned it to the library when you were done.

[sammiedawg]

We might disagree from time to time sammie ;). But on this post I am in 100% agreement. I don't see massive theft either. I've always returned my books whether I signed for them or just took them (as is the new system). Who wants the weight going home? LOL

 

Even Oceania Riviera had a library - no librarian and books were piled waiting to be put away (I just put my read ones back on the shelves where they belonged) but the library was decent, people were enjoying the space and the books. :D and like the new HAL system, you didn't sign just took the book and returned it to the library when you were done.

 

I believe people are fundamentally honest. Cruise lines eliminating libraries are scapegoating onboard “thieves” to divert attention from a cutback.

Oceania has the best libraries. Shelves fully stocked to the point that sometimes they don’t have room for all of them. Open cabinet doors underneath and there will be scores of extra books.

On the Oceania R ships, the library is even better with better lighting and better chair placement.

I still take a kindle. I have the original one ever sold. It is practically an antique but recharges very quickly and works perfectly. For anyone interested, Amazon runs ridiculous specials on brand new ones and on the books. Black Friday is around the corner.

[EDLOS]

On a recent Brand X cruise line, all books were locked behind glass doors, with a sign that said you may check out and/or return books each day between 2 and 4 PM. An attendant would arrive for the two hour window. There was also a drop box for returning books. The library itself was a quiet comfortable oasis all day.

They also still had a computer nerd to assist you with tech problems. I just don't know how they stay in business with all that overhead. I am sailing that line again in November and again in January.

It's a mainstream line with prices as low and sometimes lower than HAL

I am keeping it secret so all those Riff-Raff book thiefs on HAL don't get wind of it !

 

So many of you are hearing a different song I am singing, it's all about the ambiance of a ship's library, a quiet oasis. I do bring my Kindle loaded and seldom use any book except Atlas's and geographical info in the library. Please don't start about HAL still has cloth napkins and turn downs,, you are missing my point Those who say that other cruise lines don't have decent quiet oasis libraries have not sailed the ones I am sailing which is a lot more than what was available on my last two sailings in the Eurodam and Oosterdam in 2016. Everyone's perceptions and needs are different. and I quit HAL after a TA in 2016. I do sail 3/4 cruises each year with the last 12 months logging 73 Days at sea

[SetAnOpenCourse]

One of the great thing about the Dam libraries is/was casually walking through with no specific topic in mind, and a book catching your glance, picking it up, and exploring something new in your mind.

The “coffee table” books alone were worthy of the space!

 

(Oops, forgot to consult the stockholders. Ignore this post! ;))

[albingirl]

I really wish the cruiseline would provide some high speed internet for a limited time to all guests. Therefore, everyone could download books to their kindles or tablets. It would be helpful, particularly on a long cruise. Although, I could download in advance, of course. My public library doesn't always have books that I want available for my kindle on overdrive and it can be a bit of a wait for them.