"pure chaos" as Sunshine lists

[pc_load_letter]

So was that $50 per person? Heck, I'd take that. Some duty free booze and perhaps specialty dining....I'd be happy with that.

[CodyMiles1994]

1 minute ago, pc_load_letter said:

So was that $50 per person? Heck, I'd take that. Some duty free booze and perhaps specialty dining....I'd be happy with that.

 

Yes each person in the cabin received $50 on their account the next day.

[sfaaa]

Plus a thrill ride for free. People have to pay to experience something like this at amusement parks. 

[AmazedByCruising]

IMO, "pure chaos" is what you get when pax and crew don't know what's happening. A rather vague letter from the Captain the next day doesn't help. This is my pet peeve since my first cruise where the ship made a full circle which looked like we'd be sailing to Syria and the Captain didn't even mention it.

 

The Captain should find out the problem, get it fixed or maybe not if he can't. But the very first thing after that should be to get the microphone and explain what happened even if it's 3 AM. He should tell the pax not to search for lifejackets and make a joke about many plates that now don't need to be washed. 

 

All this secrecy only leads to angry passengers and negative media attention, while everyone on board would be OK with an explanation that stabilizers can simply fail once in a while and the ships can't do much about that. This thread probably wouldn't exist if the Captain simply explained what was going on.

 

[beerman2]

11 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

IMO, "pure chaos" is what you get when pax and crew don't know what's happening. A rather vague letter from the Captain the next day doesn't help. This is my pet peeve since my first cruise where the ship made a full circle which looked like we'd be sailing to Syria and the Captain didn't even mention it.

 

The Captain should find out the problem, get it fixed or maybe not if he can't. But the very first thing after that should be to get the microphone and explain what happened even if it's 3 AM. He should tell the pax not to search for lifejackets and make a joke about many plates that now don't need to be washed. 

 

All this secrecy only leads to angry passengers and negative media attention, while everyone on board would be OK with an explanation that stabilizers can simply fail once in a while and the ships can't do much about that. This thread probably wouldn't exist if the Captain simply explained what was going on.

 

Wouldn't making an announcement at 3 a.m. create more alarm/panic?  Maybe a better scenario would be for the Captain to announce updates during the night will be provided on the cruise channel, unless it's an emergency.

Further updates will be made in the morning.

[AmazedByCruising]

17 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Wouldn't making an announcement at 3 a.m. create more alarm/panic?  Maybe a better scenario would be for the Captain to announce updates during the night will be provided on the cruise channel, unless it's an emergency.

Further updates will be made in the morning.

 

That's another thing that i'd like. Continuous updates. We're turning now, bunkering takes more time than expected, there are two guests missing so we are late, dolphins at port side.

 

If you are sleeping and the Captain wakes you up saying "such and such, you can go back to sleep" there's no panic. If you are watching a movie and suddenly the ship lists, glasses start falling, which is not what happened during your all inclusive last year, you may want the comforting voice of the Captain saying that you will not be on TV the next day.

 

I don't fly anymore. Yet there was one flight on a tiny plane where I was completely relaxed. I sat next to the pilot. I could see all of his "dashboard". If something would be wrong I'd know. He also explained everything.

 

How difficult is it to say that the ship is listing because  X and Y, we're sorry but you are not in danger. Sleep well.

 

 

[Oceans100]

On 11/4/2018 at 12:35 PM, sfaaa said:

Sounds like quite a thrilling cruise. Exactly what fun ship is all about. 

Definitely a “fun ship” and being the  Halloween cruise their hashtag of #frightfullyfun certainly fit the occasion 

[jimbo5544]

On November 5, 2018 at 8:10 PM, AmazedByCruising said:

 

That's another thing that i'd like. Continuous updates. We're turning now, bunkering takes more time than expected, there are two guests missing so we are late, dolphins at port side.

 

If you are sleeping and the Captain wakes you up saying "such and such, you can go back to sleep" there's no panic. If you are watching a movie and suddenly the ship lists, glasses start falling, which is not what happened during your all inclusive last year, you may want the comforting voice of the Captain saying that you will not be on TV the next day.

 

I don't fly anymore. Yet there was one flight on a tiny plane where I was completely relaxed. I sat next to the pilot. I could see all of his "dashboard". If something would be wrong I'd know. He also explained everything.

 

How difficult is it to say that the ship is listing because  X and Y, we're sorry but you are not in danger. Sleep well.

 

 

So.....I am sensing you are a control person.  I think they have way to many announcements, let those who feel the need to be involved in every little thing ask and not disturb the vast majority. I was actually not surprised when you said you do not fly anymore...  But to each their own.....happy cruising. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

16 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

So.....I am sensing you are a control person.  I think they have way to many announcements, let those who feel the need to be involved in every little thing ask and not disturb the vast majority. I was actually not surprised when you said you do not fly anymore...  But to each their own.....happy cruising. 

I wonder if Carnival (or cruiselines in general) could have a dedicated TV channel that has overdoses of announcement information, so that folks who want to "tune in" can, and those who don't won't?

 

"Hello, this is your Captain, Spiro Speakeasy, we're about to turn 5 deg to port to avoid a pod of sea-going yaks.  The pools will be unaffected, but those of you over-indulging at the Blue Iguana Bar will have an excuse to fall over now."

 

"Hello, Captain Speakeasy again, that loud thump you heard and bump you felt was a competing pod of sea-going yaks that were trying to impose their authority on the first pod.  No damage to the ship, and guess what's on the menu tonight!"

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I wonder if Carnival (or cruiselines in general) could have a dedicated TV channel that has overdoses of announcement information, so that folks who want to "tune in" can, and those who don't won't?

 

"Hello, this is your Captain, Spiro Speakeasy, we're about to turn 5 deg to port to avoid a pod of sea-going yaks.  The pools will be unaffected, but those of you over-indulging at the Blue Iguana Bar will have an excuse to fall over now."

 

"Hello, Captain Speakeasy again, that loud thump you heard and bump you felt was a competing pod of sea-going yaks that were trying to impose their authority on the first pod.  No damage to the ship, and guess what's on the menu tonight!"

LOL...... you said it much better then I

[schazzy]

2 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I wonder if Carnival (or cruiselines in general) could have a dedicated TV channel that has overdoses of announcement information, so that folks who want to "tune in" can, and those who don't won't?

 

"Hello, this is your Captain, Spiro Speakeasy, we're about to turn 5 deg to port to avoid a pod of sea-going yaks.  The pools will be unaffected, but those of you over-indulging at the Blue Iguana Bar will have an excuse to fall over now."

 

"Hello, Captain Speakeasy again, that loud thump you heard and bump you felt was a competing pod of sea-going yaks that were trying to impose their authority on the first pod.  No damage to the ship, and guess what's on the menu tonight!"

Will the Sea Yak be included or is a $20 up-charge since it's a specialty item?

[ProgRockCruiser]

34 minutes ago, schazzy said:

Will the Sea Yak be included or is a $20 up-charge since it's a specialty item?

For lunch, free of charge.

 

Served in the Havana Bar area late at night it is an upcharge, unless you dance "The Floss".

[gnatz007]

Just off the Sunshine Sunday.  My son and I did the "behind the fun tour" on Saturday (last sea day) and the "listing" issue came up while we were in the engine control room.  The engineer that was presenting was obviously embarrassed that the question came up (you could tell, they were very proud of their jobs, and this was not a proud moment for them).  He was emphatic that it was NOT due to the stabilizers, and when nudged as to the 'why', he immediately said that it was under current investigation by those outside of Carnival, and they were not allowed to say anything more.  It was a little humorous that every engineer knew the exact date, time, etc.   The engineer that was speaking was also on watch that night, and you could tell it personally affected him.

 

No other information than that was given, nor do I expect anything to be said, unless they allow information after the investigation is completed.

 

As a side note... everything went flawless on our cruise... with the exception of the Melting Cake being overly cooked (more like a brownie).  The food was for the most part very good, the crew was outstanding, we especially liked Mikey, and the time we spent on the bridge with the Captain, who was cordial, funny, and very engaging and we didn't feel particularly rushed to leave.  I even snuck some time chatting with the officer on the watch who was very informative about what their time on the bridge is like and then also took a sit in the Captains chair...

[AmazedByCruising]

4 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

So.....I am sensing you are a control person.  I think they have way to many announcements, let those who feel the need to be involved in every little thing ask and not disturb the vast majority. I was actually not surprised when you said you do not fly anymore...  But to each their own.....happy cruising. 

 

To each their own means, I'm not native to English, "whatever you personally like", doesn't it? If so it's the wrong wording as I'd love to fly without being really anxious about any weird noise. On a plane, it would be solved if I could watch the cockpit cam and see all the meters.  

 

 

On a ship I actually like high waves. When topics on CC will have "pure chaos" in the title and the Captain needs to decide between comforting 100 panicking passengers and the 2000 others that don't like the amount of announcements, I think the decision should be to make the announcement. 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by AmazedByCruising
spelling

[AmazedByCruising]

4 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I wonder if Carnival (or cruiselines in general) could have a dedicated TV channel that has overdoses of announcement information, so that folks who want to "tune in" can, and those who don't won't? 

 

 

I'v been wanting that for a long time! 

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

To each their own means, I'm not native to English, "whatever you personally like", doesn't it? If so it's the wrong wording as I'd love to fly without being really anxious about any weird noise. On a plane, it would be solved if I could watch the cockpit cam and see all the meters.  

 

 

On a ship I actually like high waves. When topics on CC will have "pure chaos" in the title and the Captain needs to decide between comforting 100 panicking passengers and the 2000 others that don't like the amount of announcements, I think the decision should be to make the announcement. 

 

For it not being your native language you do well...

Edited November 20, 2018 by jimbo5544

[Thorncroft]

On 11/19/2018 at 4:10 PM, AmazedByCruising said:

 

To each their own means, I'm not native to English, "whatever you personally like", doesn't it? If so it's the wrong wording as I'd love to fly without being really anxious about any weird noise. On a plane, it would be solved if I could watch the cockpit cam and see all the meters.  

 

 

On a ship I actually like high waves. When topics on CC will have "pure chaos" in the title and the Captain needs to decide between comforting 100 panicking passengers and the 2000 others that don't like the amount of announcements, I think the decision should be to make the announcement. 

 

 

To each their own is a dismissive and arguably rude expression. 

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

 

To each their own is a dismissive and arguably rude expression. 

Well, since I said it, I guess I can comment here. It was neither dismissive nor rude.  It was just the opposite...and actually just like it reads....the poster can feel the way they want and I might have a different feeling entirely, it required no more comment or arguments and even ended with happy cruising.  You can try and stir the pot but it is off base.  We can discuss further if you want....or to each their own.  

[AmazedByCruising]

29 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Well, since I said it, I guess I can comment here. It was neither dismissive nor rude.  It was just the opposite...and actually just like it reads....the poster can feel the way they want and I might have a different feeling entirely, it required no more comment or arguments and even ended with happy cruising.  You can try and stir the pot but it is off base.  We can discuss further if you want....or to each their own.  

 

I feel I need an American 🙂

 

[bury me at sea]

9 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

I feel I need an American 🙂

 

LOL.  Your English is fine.  In case you ever want to use the phrase, it's actually "to each his own" since each is singular.  It's a very common grammatical error.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, bury me at sea said:

LOL.  Your English is fine.  In case you ever want to use the phrase, it's actually "to each his own" since each is singular.  It's a very common grammatical error.

explains the C in grammar......

 

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

I feel I need an American 🙂

 

We are good, you can have an opinion, and I can have one as well that my differ.  There was no slight on my part.

Edited November 23, 2018 by jimbo5544

[BlerkOne]

On 11/2/2018 at 5:40 AM, chengkp75 said:

Okay, here's my take on this.  First off, I call BS on the stabilizers causing this.  Stabilizers do not stop rolling, they merely slow it down to a comfortable level, and no fin stabilizer existing on a ship today has the force able to make a ship list and continue to list.  I will pretty much bet the farm that this is exactly the same thing that has happened to a couple of Princess ships a couple of years ago, and to the Norwegian Sky back in 2002, that I know about, and likely several other cases.  This is "turn induced heeling".  When a ship turns, there is a centrifugal force that tries to keep the ship moving in a straight line, and since the turning force is underwater where the azipods or rudders are, the force acts up higher on the ship, leaning it out, away from the turn.  The faster the ship is going, and the more the rudders are turned, the more force is produced to heel the ship over.  This is why cruise ships (and really any ship) going at sea speeds will limit helm maneuvers to only a few degrees of rudder, unless it is an emergency.  My guess is that there was either a glitch in the autopilot, or an "operator error" when changing course while on autopilot that caused a significant helm order from the autopilot to the steering, and this caused the heeling, especially since it lasted only a minute, as the bridge officer would have noticed the error immediately and corrected.

 

Plates and such will start to slide at around 15* of heel, nowhere near a dangerous angle.  The Norwegian Sky incident I noted above heeled the ship about 30*, virtually every plate and glass onboard was broken, and over 100 guests were sent to hospital, some for broken bones, in Vancouver, so if there were no injuries, this was not a serious heel.

 

As for the comment that a glitch that causes ballast to be moved too quickly can cause a heel like this, that just isn't so, you physically cannot move hundreds of tons of water that quickly.  This was most likely the other significant cause of heeling, "wind induced heel", where the ship changes course, and the wind is now more or less on the side of the ship, and the ship acts like a sail, and heels over from the force of the wind.  Ballast, fuel, and drinking water will then be needed to be moved to correct the heel, but this takes a while, as again, you can't move tons of liquids as quickly as the ship can heel over.  Then with the liquids loaded asymmetrically to counteract the wind, if the ship changes course again, or the wind dies down, that asymmetrical load suddenly causes the ship to heel over the other way, until the liquid can be moved back.

 

As a note, cruise ships carry very little ballast, and major shifts to correct heeling is done with fuel and drinking water.

 

I think I will call BS on some of this, if I understand it (or not). A 5 degree sudden list should clear tables of dishes. I think a list over 40 degrees, approaching 50 degrees would likely capsize the ship.

[Thorncroft]

If the Carnival corporate ship could execute a turn as quickly as one of their cruise ships can suddenly heel over,  hurling everything on to the floor in a matter of seconds, they could get rid of JH and his tiresome teaser announcements of a pending "brilliant" announcement, that turns out to be underwhelming, a year later. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Thorncroft

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

I think I will call BS on some of this, if I understand it (or not). A 5 degree sudden list should clear tables of dishes. I think a list over 40 degrees, approaching 50 degrees would likely capsize the ship.

Well, what you think is a 5* list may not actually be one.  Most folks that don't go to sea tend to overestimate lists and rolls.  5* does not even cause dishes to move, let alone "clear a table".  Most ships don't even start to limit soup from bowls to cups, and put anti-slide mats on the table until you are in the 15* range.  Try this, take a table 48" wide, and put some dishes on it.  Raise one side 4", do the plates slide off onto the floor?  Some glasses probably tipped over, but even that is not a guarantee.  4" over 48" is the sine of 5*.

 

And, until you understand ship stability, don't presume to know what would capsize a ship or not.  I've been on a couple of ships, caught in storms, that listed over 45*+, and came right back up.  If you understood what forces act to right a ship, you would know that the farther the ship heels over, the greater the force generated by the ship to right itself.  This is true right up until about 80-90* (depending on the ship's stability, the relationship between the center of gravity and the center of buoyancy).  The major limitation on a cruise ship's maximum roll angle is when the first open upper deck (promenade deck), that does not have watertight doors, has it's edge submerged, and the non-watertight doors allow water into the ship, changing the stability calculation through downflooding and free surface effect, much as the Concordia, when she grounded the second time, and the water inside flowed to the low side and took her over.  Ships are a lot like the punching clown, which is very tall, but the weight down at the bottom keeps it coming back upright.