Premium package for wine drinkers is not all that premium

[publicpersona]

Just off an Infinity cruise where I had upgraded my Classic package to Premium with the hope of trying a variety of nicer wines before and during dinner. While the Premium package seemed of benefit to beer, cocktail, and in particular, martini drinkers, as a wine drinker, I was very disappointed.

 

First problem is selection of wines. Far and away, they are pushing bottle purchases. And while the premium lists that I've seen posted, as well as the menu .. excuse me, "guidelines" (we'll get to that), in the Constellation Lounge had a very nice selection of wines by the glass (see image), the reality is that almost always in the bars you can order whatever wine you want, and what you'll get is "whatever is open". Ordering a Mer Soleil Chardonnay, I first naively asked whether it was the oaked or stainless Mer Soleil. That was a mistake. The bar guy had no idea what I was talking about, but in fact he said they don't serve Mer Soleil Chardonnay at all. But I pointed to it on the menu. He corrected me and said it wasn't a menu, it was a "guideline". A few more attempts at ordering from the "guideline" failed, and he ended up pouring me the same chard that they use for the Captain's Club freebies. My observation was there were about 6-8 bottles of wine, and somehow they magically serviced everyone's order.

 

On three occasions now (once on Summit, and twice on Infinity), the wine I was poured was not at all what I ordered, yet I was told that it was. Trying not to sound like a wine snob here, but if the color, nose, and taste didn't give it away, the label was a dead giveaway.

 

Think you could get better wine service in Cellar Masters? Guess again. The Cellar Masters where there really was a good choice of decent wines and somewhat knowledgeable staff is a thing of the past. Gone are the bottles of good wine in waiting, and in its place just a plain old bar with a bartender serving mostly beer and mixed drinks.

 

Another issue about classic vs. premium is that premium is still capped at $15. And guess what .. the wines by the glass are mostly in the $10-$12 range, and then they jump to $16.

 

I will say that the dining room offered a better experience. In fact, on last cruise, I had Classic package yet was offered some very, very nice wines.

 

Bottom line is .. if you are primarily a wine drinker, I see very little benefit in upgrading from Classic to Premium. Chances are pretty good you'll be drinking the same wine either way.

Edited November 26, 2018 by publicpersona

[PhoenixCruiser]

With Royal if you wanted a higher priced beverage they would just charge you the difference and add 18% - is this not the same with Celebrity?

[mmsJack]

Listen, judge free zone here but in my world the first mistake was ordering Mer Soleil - seriously a mediocre mass produced wine. 

 

We found that an open minded, flexible perspective meant an amazing wine experience.

 

No somm: Cellar Masters, MDR or specialty restaurant stuck to price tiers on our last cruise. Once they knew what we liked - it was open season on beautiful interesting wines. We're mostly old world wine drinkers but to each his/her own. The X crew we met seemed to love the opportunity to share wines with us.

 

On our last sailing -  w/ the prem beverage package we never paid a dime for anything over our limit and we were definitely served wines, some on the BTB (by the bottle) list some our package limit.

 

Maybe the bottom line classic v prem is legit - but not our experience. For us, the prem seemed to be open season on fabulous wine. Did we see those every day US consumer labels at every meal - not so much, but nor did we look for them. Working for a European wine importer for 10 + years - I found it a treat I didn't expect... Drink out of the box - SO MUCH FUN!

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by mmsJack

[jelayne]

19 minutes ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

With Royal if you wanted a higher priced beverage they would just charge you the difference and add 18% - is this not the same with Celebrity?

 

Yes it is the same with Celebrity.

 

Our experience has been much different that the OPs.  With 1 or 2 exceptions we have had knowledgeable sommeliers who have served us a wide range of wonderful  wines.  Many of them were not on the “wine list” and we have only once been charged extra & that was for a specific port DH wanted.

[publicpersona]

As I said, what I experienced in the dining room was much better than at the bars and so-called "Cellar Masters". On the last cruise, it was just so-so in Blu unfortunately with the selection being very limited to a short list. But previous cruise we experienced what mmsJack said .. they didn't stick to the price tiers and were serving the by the bottles stuff .. and we were on Classic! So that further illustrates my point.

 

I also don't disagree about the mass marketed wines, but in the bars, there simply weren't other choices. The chards were limited to the "special" wine KJ makes for Celebrity, and something rather thin from Chili.

 

The Cellar Masters that actually had good wines, and Royal's Vintages are disappearing. They still call them Cellar Masters on Infinity, but it was a generic bar.

[jelayne]

We have the bartenders at the Martini bar & Sunset bar keep bottles of a wine we want stocked at the bar. They set them aside with our name on them never an extra charge.  

[lovecruzin]

We have had no problem getting Mer Soleil on our previous cruises (last was July). It was the oaked not the stainless. Im sorry it is not available for you. I don't consider it mass produced, at least compared to KJ or some of the other labels they carry. I think it is a solid California chard. Perhaps they have something else on the wine list that they would be willing to offer by the glass as a substitute. Speak directly to the Cellar Master not just any of the somms...

[Ladesign]

On more than 1 cruise we have had issues obtaining Vill Maira Sauvignon Blanc.  On our last cruise the wonderful Sommelier maged to get us some every night until the penultimate night.  He usually left the bottle on the table for us and was always chatting, but this time  he very hurriedly poured our galsses from an opened bottle and virtually ran off.  I tased mine and said nothing.  SWMBO tasted hers and immediately said "that isnt Villa Maria its that Wairau Cove "  I went over and spoke to the Head Sommelier and said I found it completely wrong- "and do not blame the Sommelier as I am sure he knew but had been instructed."  Suprise suprise a very flustered sommelier arrived at our table and said it wasnt a different wine and that he had broken the seal when he poured ours.  This was a blatant lie but we were convinced that he was following instructions. 

 

I formally raised the issue with the F & B Director who denied his staff were decanting wine into other bottles- he seemd a tad concerned to learn we are back on the same ship in January 2019.  He said he would ensure we were looked after with wine and we were not to hesitate to contact him if there are any issues.

We had suspicions on the January 2018 cruise that this was also happening (we were with friends from Canadia who only drink reasonable NZ Sauv. Blanc)  We pointed out to the then F & B Director that Wairau Cove is often on sale in UK for £5 (Tesco) but Villa Maria is never sold below £7 and is the biggest selling NZ sauv. blanc in the UK.  He smiled when I suggested that perhaps Miami had bought zillions of Wairau Cove and are now having to be creative to get passengers to drink it.

I know that Villa Maria isnt the best Marlborough Sauv. Blanc, but it is OK for us- would prefer Cloudy Bay but wouldnt expect that on a package.  The Ensemble lounge had 'The Ned' on the menu  (also acceptable) but they dint have any for the whole cruise!

 

Her's hoping that they have plenty of Villa Maria in January or the F & B guy is going to get earache from both UK & Canadia 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ladesign
typos

[publicpersona]

Again speaking primarily about the generic bars here, I'm pretty confident that pouring similar wines to what has been requested is a lot more common than it should be, and many people wouldn't notice.

 

Speaking to someone at Cellar Masters is what I would do except, as I said, on the Summit and Infinity at least, Cellar Masters exists in name only. The bar staff there and bar setup is primarily for mixed drinks and beers.

 

I haven't been on the Solstice class in almost a year, but every time I've done those in the past, the Cellar Masters was really good and I signed up for several of the wine tastings. Best experience was when they did it on the lawn. It was essentially "all you can drink for an hour" for about $20. And they DID have some Old World wines.

 

Will be interesting to see how things are on the Edge with Premium package. I'll let you know in about two weeks.

[mmsJack]

Wagner Family wines who produces Mer Soleil both oaked (classic Mer Soeil) and the unoaked Mer Soleil ('Silver' in that insanely expensive bottle) produce thousands and thousands of cases of wine a year - to my little wineries that's a lot. 'KJ a lot' maybe not, but Wagner is still a driver in the wine world. While imho there's nothing wrong with MS, there are just so many other (less expensive tho less well known) wines out there - they just don't spend big bucks advertising or can't afford to pay for restaurant wine list placements. I seek out the little guys - that's just me.

 

Not that total production matters - what someone likes, they like and that's the beauty of wine. We all get to pick our 100 point wine, our happy wine and thank goodness we don't all like the same thing, right?

 

My point isn't that any one wine is better/worse than another just that if someone gets on a cruise ship with hopes of a specific wine there is likely to be disappointment. Plenty of posts about people wanting X wine they drink at home or Z wine that they had on a past sailing and being bummed (to even really, really PO'd) that they can't get it on their current sailing. 

 

It may be valuable to understand that wine can't be purchased by cruise lines like someone's favorite Vodka. Cruise ships submit what's called tenders to wine companies and wine importers. We in turn submit samples and pricing for consideration. If the tender is accepted the cruise line then submits an order - this could be for small to huge quantities of any individual wine. Whispering Angle Rose was big on X sailings last year - they had a lot of wine to move and prob (speculation here) offered Celebrity a deal that they simply couldn't refuse 😉. (WA - another commercially successful brand and while fine, talk about a category [rosé - a.k.a. dry pink wine] that's absolutely filled with value priced gems...!) (And a huge thank you to all the American wine drinkers who have finely embraced pink wine!)

 

Because wine is an agricultural product and every vintage is different (even for the big boys) it's simply not possible for a cruise line to carry the same inventory on every sailing. California had a short vintage in 2015 (I think it was '15, not really my area), Burgundy had a delicious but very small vintage in 2016. Germany had a brilliant abet very short vintage in 2017 😢. Sometimes wines stocked on one sailing are just no longer available next time X tries to order. Sometimes the price of a particular wine goes up (short vintage, winery not as motivated due w/a new vintage, a wine gets amazing press [<- this is a HUGE influencer], Euro/USD exchange rate moves) so the cruise line opts to buy something else to maintain the bev package price points. 

 

Just sharing some of the complexities of this interesting spirit if it helps some to understand why the wine offerings are constantly fluctuating while at the same time cruisers can always bet on getting Bombay Gin 🍸.

 

SO... If pax go on a cruise recognizing that this isn't their local restaurant but rather a huge ship with constantly fluctuating inventory and have an open mind there many new and wonderful wines on every sailing to discover.

 

The Somms on a cruise ship are our friends - they are legitimately a wealth of knowledge. If you engage them they WILL make you happy. As someone already stated, even the bartenders at the more spirits driven bars will take the time to have a special wine for pax that ask with kindness and are patient enough to understand that it may take a mini... Like the Martini bar or the WCB on an X ships, if you go to a craft cocktail bar back home - don't expect an expansive wine list, thats not what they do.

 

Good News - there's always a delicious wine to be found 🍷! Also good news, if you don't like the glass of wine you're offered, don't drink it - the server will bring you something else 🍷! Last bit of good news, you're on vacation BABY,  hunt down that perfect glass of wine like it's your job 🍷!

 

(re. Cellar Master's: 1) On reflection we could NOT get a mixed cocktail in CM and they had very few beer offerings - if somoeone in our party wanted a cocktail we had to go outside to another bar - just our experience 2) We encountered a real Somm with great experience and knowledge 3) We got a card for our last sailing to try the offerings on their 'wine keeper' system. Many, maybe 1 in 4 was flawed. Most were just oxidized or tired, prob because the bottles don't move fast enough. Great idea in theory but not so much in practice it seems. If trying something unfamiliar & it's crap (< official wine terminology) - ask the somm for a second opinion or just let them know you didn't like it. She/he will make it right - we had wonderful service in there!)

[Straughn]

There are four kinds of wine-  red wine, white wine, wine you like, and wine you don’t.  Never is that more obvious than on a cruise ship with limited inventory and a captured audience with wildly varying wine knowledge, experiences, and palates.

[lovecruzin]

5 hours ago, publicpersona said:

 

Speaking to someone at Cellar Masters is what I would do except, as I said, on the Summit and Infinity at least, Cellar Masters exists in name only. The bar staff there and bar setup is primarily for mixed drinks and beers.

 

 

 

I was actually suggesting you speak with the person whose title is “Cellar Master” he/she is basically the head somm.

 

3 hours ago, mmsJack said:

 

 

It may be valuable to understand that wine can't be purchased by cruise lines like someone's favorite Vodka. Cruise ships submit what's called tenders to wine companies and wine importers. We in turn submit samples and pricing for consideration. If the tender is accepted the cruise line then submits an order - this could be for small to huge quantities of any individual wine. Whispering Angle Rose was big on X sailings last year - they had a lot of wine to move and prob (speculation here) offered Celebrity a deal that they simply couldn't refuse 😉. (WA - another commercially successful brand and while fine, talk about a category [rosé - a.k.a. dry pink wine] that's absolutely filled with value priced gems...!) (And a huge thank you to all the American wine drinkers who have finely embraced pink wine!)

 

 

Thanks for the education, I often wondered how ships acquire their wine.

When cruising I dont expect to find the smaller production labels we often drink at home but am always happy when I see something that is familiar, that I would drink at home or in a restaurant.

[publicpersona]

We all have different tastes in wine, of course. And I certainly have no expectations to find wines like I have laying down in my cellar, nor do I expect the same variety of wines to choose from that I get at the local wine bar. However, and this was the point of my post, paying the premium price for the package when you are interested primarily in wine may not be a good choice because 1) the wines by the glass in the premium price tier are scarce at the bars, 2) the lists of specific wines that you see in posts such as mine above, or even menus, I mean, guidelines in the lounges may grossly exaggerated what you actually have to choose from, and 3) the bartenders may pour a lesser wine of the same or similar varietal anyway.

 

4 hours ago, mmsJack said:

re. Cellar Master's: 1) On reflection we could NOT get a mixed cocktail in CM and they had very few beer offerings

 

If your report is recent, that is very good news indeed that Cellar Master on Solstice class still survive. The data points that I'm reporting are from Summit less than a year ago, and the Infinity from last week. The bar in the Cellar Master area was stocked not with a wide variety of wines, but Scotch, Rum, Bourbon, etc. The few wines that they had were either room temperature for reds (which is usually wrong), or in a dish pan full of ice for whites (also usually wrong), and there's a tendency to be served what's open.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Some of the issues on lack of wine choice on Infinity may be directly related to her current 4/5 nt short sailings, where more guests have the drink package than on other sailings, and average consumption of alcohol per guest is also higher.  The ships Bar Manager may have made decisions on wine/bar service to help shorten service times and reduce waste.  

 

I personally look at each bars specific wine by the glass on it's menu and order from that (the guidelines under the package inclusions are merely examples of wines that might be on offer fleetwide and not representative of a specific venues offerings).  I have never had an issue getting what I ordered, but outside of MDR/specialty dining and Cellar Masters the selection has been uniformly uninspiring and fairly basic on wine by the glass.  Even the few venues with expanded wine by the glass offerings have been just so-so in terms of varietals.  

[publicpersona]

25 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

Some of the issues on lack of wine choice on Infinity may be directly related to her current 4/5 nt short sailings, where more guests have the drink package than on other sailings, and average consumption of alcohol per guest is also higher.  

 

I personally look at each bars specific wine by the glass on it's menu and order from that

 

I think you are right about the short sailings being a factor. But I also discussed the issue with a sommelier that had given us great service on a previous cruise on another Celebrity ship. He mentioned that "They are making changes" and shook his head as if to say they weren't necessarily changes a wine drinker would love.

 

To be clear, the image I posted *was* the wine menu in the Constellation Lounge. Only a few of the listed wines by the glass were actually available.

[phoenix_dream]

It has consistently been our opinion that the wine options under the premium package are very limited to say the least.  We prefer red, and the options generally consist of a couple mid-range cabernets (retail US price approx. $20), maybe one zinfandel, and one or two red blends.  All else is by the bottle, which defeats the purpose of paying for a package.  To me, the word "premium" means a wine with a retail price a bit more than $20, but maybe that's just me.  I also find it frustrating that on occasion the limited options listed are not even available!  We have had a couple of great sommeliers, but they can only do so much with the inventory they are given.

[Covepointcruiser]

On our last sailing on the Silhouette transatlantic we had the premium package.   We went down to Celler Masters thinking we might want to try a good wine, however, above each round rack of wines was the notice, “These wines are not included on any beverage package.”    We never went back.   We did, however get good service in the restaurants as they always brought the bottle and opened it in front of us so we always received what we ordered.

[the_dylaness]

It's like you read my mind.

 

Disembarked Reflection this morning--- overall a nice cruise but definitely not happy I paid to upgrade to premium beverage package as it was very hard to find any of the premium beverages.

 

We took most meals in Oceanview Cafe (unusual for us but traveling with our small children so much easier.) Wine selection there VERY limited.  Only occasionally could you find Villa Maria SB.  Dining room had a better selection but we weren't usually eating there.  Cellar Masters limited hours (yes sometimes I want a nice glass of wine before 4 pm on vacation) and sometimes impossible to get any service.  (I literally sat in there one evening around 7pm for perhaps 10 minutes before finally going to the MDR and asking if they could send someone to help me.)  And even then half the time they did not immediately have the wine we wanted available and had to go get it from somewhere else (??).  This was the only place on the ship we could find La Fin Du Monde which is perhaps our favorite beer.  Want one with your cheeseburger at lunch?  Nope.

 

We also had questions about wines being poured into other bottles.  We had discussed this concern when we were served a zinfandel that tasted like cheap tinny "red blend" or something else equally non zin-ish.  Later that same night we sat next to a woman in Ensemble Lounge who complained that the Decoy wine she'd requested tasted like plonk. She requested the bartender to open a bottle right in front of her and pour it- grudgingly she did and the woman seemed satisfied that it was the right wine that time.

 

Something is going on.

[sofietucker]

Aw man. We leave on Summit in Jan...had gotten the premier package for the wines too (well, and the Absolute Elyx). We'd had bad luck sometimes on other cruise lines--v. limited choices, not what's on menu--but a fab experience on the Equinox (last winter? I forget.). The bartenders at various bars always opened the bottles in front of us. Cellar Masters had that vacuum system with spigots--we tasted some amazing wines as well as one that had gone off; told them & watched them change it out. Wine tastings/pairings were all excellent.  Do agree that you can't always find wine X at each bar. We usually tracked them down and brought our glasses along to OV, dinner, or whatever, as well as ordering another glass immediately upon sitting--and telling the sommelier *which bar* they could find wine X, to save them time in their hunt. Most important thing we do is make friends with the head sommelier upon boarding and then engage in conversation from time to time. Plus of course bring our max # allowed bottles from shore; on Brilliance in the Med, we did this at every port & it was never confiscated.

[boom_boom]

I agree! When we sailed on the Millie with a premium package is was discouraging to see that I could buy a whole bottle of the premium wine in my local supermarket for the price of 1 glass onboard. And, it is also hard to find the wine you like at every bar. They have a "list' but that isn't a real list, Just what they MIGHT have on hand.

But, I guess that's what happens when you can't or don't want to afford a cruiseline like Seaborn, etc.

Better to cruise with not very good wine than not cruise at all.

[sofietucker]

18 hours ago, boom_boom said:

 (snip)

Better to cruise with not very good wine than not cruise at all.

You betcha!!! We'll just have to make do with fancy liquors too... As they say, first-world problems, lol. (On that front, we chose this itinerary to islands hit hard by the storms--Antigua, etc.--to spend our tourist dollars there.)

Edited December 4, 2018 by sofietucker

[SadieC]

I agree with many of the posters re the wine selection particularly within the so-called Premium package.  Have only been on Celebrity, completing more than 10 cruises with them  Thought we'd try something new for a special anniversary and just got back from Regent Cruise line to Tahiti.  Wow!!  Talk about premium wine choices for everybody that wants it.  Almost the same price as our Celebrity cruise to the Panama last year too, once you add in all the add-ons like excursions and drinking plans.   

[publicpersona]

I stated that I would report back on how things are on the Edge. And again, I’m focusing on the issue of getting a premium level wine outside the main dining room.

 

Ordered a Villa Maria Sauvignon Blanc from the menu. It didn’t taste at all like a New Zealand sauvignon blanc, so I kindly ask if I could see the label. You guessed it.

 

 

[lovecruzin]

Royal Caribbean must have gotten a deal on the Seeker Chardonnay. It was the only chard by the glass on Azamara. Then they ran out of it one night and told us the De Loach was similar, the only thing similar was that they were both California fruit. The De Loach was a stainless, unoaked. 

When questioning the somm as to what appellation, he looked at the back of the bottle to where it said bottled in St Helena and said thats where the grapes were grown...I laughed and decided not to correct him, better not to embarrass the somm on a ship!

[publicpersona]

It isn’t getting any better. In the Fine Cut Steakhouse on Edge, how many different Chardonnays by the glass does the purchaser of the most expensive drinks package have to choose from? Answer: Zero.