Riviera TA Missed Ports-- Odd Situation

[Shawnino]

I doubt we'll ever get the whole story, but here's what happened.

 

After Day 2 (Alicante) we were informed by the Captain that Days 5 and 6 port calls (Canaries) would be missed on Miami's orders: storm in N. Atlantic had Miami tell him to cruise South as quickly as possible to avoid storm then proceed West across the Ocean. Captain twice said this was Miami's call, not his, almost as if he disagreed. Day 3 (Malaga) would be a full port day as scheduled, no need to skip, and Day 4 would have been a sea day in any case en route to Canaries.

 

Day 3 saw everyone streaming ashore in Malaga, not least in search of seasick meds. We were told that the seas would still be a bit rough, but by getting South quickly, we'd skirt the worst of it. Seemed reasonable.

 

Here's where it gets odd: Captain comes on Public Address again the evening of Day 6 (which would have been second day of Canaries) and tells us we are... 60 miles SW of Canaries, sailing at 18 kts. Back of the envelope math suggests we missed two port days to pick up a bit less than 3.5 hours' sailing time (60/18 = ...). We had expected to be hundreds of miles away from Canaries but instead we could have made the first port day, truncated the second one, and seemingly been exactly where we were.

 

Either Captain did not follow Miami's orders, or they were changed and pax not informed. Whichever, pax confused/annoyed to not be informed and seemingly miss at least one port day for nothing

 

Evening of Day 7 (we are basically heading due West, and are well west of Canaries now), storm indeed hits Canaries, with a beachfront Tenerife hotel taking particularly the worst of it. (Google it.) Cruise Director gratuitously says "good thing we skipped Canaries" and gets heckled/called out on it in half-full Riviera Lounge: the storm hit Tenerife two days after would have left it, and just where had we beenon our scheduled port day anyway? He had no answer but said that in future our cuurent location would be posted on Room TVs' Channel 8.

 

After the original announcement (Day 2, Alicante) a few of us were hoping that by booting it past Canaries (and gaining, say, 600 mi.?) we could pick up another port elsewhere rather than just have eight straight sea days. Since we only picked up 60 miles, that didn't happen. After eight sea days (including two days of moderate swell, as foretold by Captain) we arrived in San Juan on schedule. The remaining days passed without incident.  

[ABoatNerd]

Shawnino:

 

Thank you kindly for your report.

 

Your comment "Back of the envelope math suggests we missed two port days to pick up a bit less than 3.5 hours' sailing time (60/18 = ...)." is very telling and similar to recent suspicious missed port situations on panama, new england and now TA itineraries.

 

Interesting the response from guests - heckling the cruise director, questioning the lack of information to guests etc.

 

And the beat goes on, and on.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

19 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

I doubt we'll ever get the whole story, but here's what happened.

 

After Day 2 (Alicante) we were informed by the Captain that Days 5 and 6 port calls (Canaries) would be missed on Miami's orders: storm in N. Atlantic had Miami tell him to cruise South as quickly as possible to avoid storm then proceed West across the Ocean. Captain twice said this was Miami's call, not his, almost as if he disagreed. Day 3 (Malaga) would be a full port day as scheduled, no need to skip, and Day 4 would have been a sea day in any case en route to Canaries.

 

Day 3 saw everyone streaming ashore in Malaga, not least in search of seasick meds. We were told that the seas would still be a bit rough, but by getting South quickly, we'd skirt the worst of it. Seemed reasonable.

 

Here's where it gets odd: Captain comes on Public Address again the evening of Day 6 (which would have been second day of Canaries) and tells us we are... 60 miles SW of Canaries, sailing at 18 kts. Back of the envelope math suggests we missed two port days to pick up a bit less than 3.5 hours' sailing time (60/18 = ...). We had expected to be hundreds of miles away from Canaries but instead we could have made the first port day, truncated the second one, and seemingly been exactly where we were.

 

Either Captain did not follow Miami's orders, or they were changed and pax not informed. Whichever, pax confused/annoyed to not be informed and seemingly miss at least one port day for nothing

 

Evening of Day 7 (we are basically heading due West, and are well west of Canaries now), storm indeed hits Canaries, with a beachfront Tenerife hotel taking particularly the worst of it. (Google it.) Cruise Director gratuitously says "good thing we skipped Canaries" and gets heckled/called out on it in half-full Riviera Lounge: the storm hit Tenerife two days after would have left it, and just where had we beenon our scheduled port day anyway? He had no answer but said that in future our cuurent location would be posted on Room TVs' Channel 8.

 

After the original announcement (Day 2, Alicante) a few of us were hoping that by booting it past Canaries (and gaining, say, 600 mi.?) we could pick up another port elsewhere rather than just have eight straight sea days. Since we only picked up 60 miles, that didn't happen. After eight sea days (including two days of moderate swell, as foretold by Captain) we arrived in San Juan on schedule. The remaining days passed without incident.  

There's nothing in the world quite like armchair ship captains.

What actually happens with weather can be (and often is) far different than what was predicted.

Have you forgotten that the ship you were on is full of many unsteady geezers? This isn't a Navy warship full of hardened sailors. So, there has to be a generous buffer of "time and tide" should a storm take a last minute turn, which would then have you writing a post condemning the skipper for placing your life in jeopardy by not taking adequate precautions.

As for adding a new port on the "spur of the moment," don't forget that all sorts of issues (not the least of which is existing port traffic commitments) can make that an impossible challenge.

Maybe transoceanic cruising on smaller ships is not for you.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Flatbush Flyer

[Shawnino]

@FlatbushFlyer: Something happened and we were not informed. 

Perhaps instead of leading with an ad hominem attack you can address how we missed two ports to pick up 60 miles?

 

(OK, OK, I didn't think you could either.)

[nyfeds]

51 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

I doubt we'll ever get the whole story, but here's what happened.

 

After Day 2 (Alicante) we were informed by the Captain that Days 5 and 6 port calls (Canaries) would be missed on Miami's orders: storm in N. Atlantic had Miami tell him to cruise South as quickly as possible to avoid storm then proceed West across the Ocean. Captain twice said this was Miami's call, not his, almost as if he disagreed. Day 3 (Malaga) would be a full port day as scheduled, no need to skip, and Day 4 would have been a sea day in any case en route to Canaries.

 

Day 3 saw everyone streaming ashore in Malaga, not least in search of seasick meds. We were told that the seas would still be a bit rough, but by getting South quickly, we'd skirt the worst of it. Seemed reasonable.

 

Here's where it gets odd: Captain comes on Public Address again the evening of Day 6 (which would have been second day of Canaries) and tells us we are... 60 miles SW of Canaries, sailing at 18 kts. Back of the envelope math suggests we missed two port days to pick up a bit less than 3.5 hours' sailing time (60/18 = ...). We had expected to be hundreds of miles away from Canaries but instead we could have made the first port day, truncated the second one, and seemingly been exactly where we were.

 

Either Captain did not follow Miami's orders, or they were changed and pax not informed. Whichever, pax confused/annoyed to not be informed and seemingly miss at least one port day for nothing

 

Evening of Day 7 (we are basically heading due West, and are well west of Canaries now), storm indeed hits Canaries, with a beachfront Tenerife hotel taking particularly the worst of it. (Google it.) Cruise Director gratuitously says "good thing we skipped Canaries" and gets heckled/called out on it in half-full Riviera Lounge: the storm hit Tenerife two days after would have left it, and just where had we beenon our scheduled port day anyway? He had no answer but said that in future our cuurent location would be posted on Room TVs' Channel 8.

 

After the original announcement (Day 2, Alicante) a few of us were hoping that by booting it past Canaries (and gaining, say, 600 mi.?) we could pick up another port elsewhere rather than just have eight straight sea days. Since we only picked up 60 miles, that didn't happen. After eight sea days (including two days of moderate swell, as foretold by Captain) we arrived in San Juan on schedule. The remaining days passed without incident.  

We were on your cruise and the manner in which this was handled was sorely disappointing.  The dismal "response" or lack thereof by Reception and Concierge desks on Riviera were the very worst we have ever encountered in all our years of cruising.  Totally and completely ill-equipped to handle and address anything in a full and professional manner!

 

In addition, several months before this cruise, Stirrup Cay was changed to Nassau.  A monumental waste of time at this worthless port, IMHO.

 

We were on a Sirena New England sailing about 2 years ago and missed Bermuda due to an impending hurricane.  O gave us a $500 credit towards another cruise, which we put towards this TA. On this cruise, we missed the Canary Islands completely.  Response from O - ZIP!

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by nyfeds

[ABoatNerd]

The surfacing knowledge about Oceania's contempt of guests is now appearing on many social media boards and consumer complaint sites. While all cruise lines get complaints about poor service and indifferent treatment of guests, what I have determined based on boards, reviews, talks with my current and previous TA's is that Oceania receives considerable complaints about arrogant customer service considering the small fleet size.  My friends have all spoken to their TA's and report there is an increasing dissatisfaction about Oceania from the TA end (food decline, price increase, particularly difficult and lengthy resolution of issues and the missed ports). 

 

This topic is an example of the principle of customer service excellence. Oceania fails. What cheerleaders try to avoid is this - we are the customer and Oceania will explain themselves any time when the product offering is changed. 

 

This principle is no different than if your paid landscaper says big changes are needed to the plan - they are required to explain and indicate why the changes, what options are available and consequences, all so the customer understands and accepts.

 

What is common to all the fall cruises with the many missed ports is this - Oceania explained little, treated guests as idiots incapable of understanding the circumstances of future weather and not worth consulting with.

 

Guests on Oceania are not newbies and most are retired with considerable knowledge. My fiasco of a panama canal cruise was loaded with navy folk from California and British Columbia and it did not take them long to calculate what options were available to Oceania to regain missed ports.

 

I and others from my cruise are having good success being compensated via making a consumer complaint with their state and Cdn provincial consumer affairs organizations as well at the federal level.  I suggest go there, it is interesting, fun and you make Oceania have to deal with their arrogance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

47 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

@FlatbushFlyer: Something happened and we were not informed. 

Perhaps instead of leading with an ad hominem attack you can address how we missed two ports to pick up 60 miles?

 

(OK, OK, I didn't think you could either.)

There are numerous reasons why, not the least of which is needing to predict how and where to be to best avoid bad weather. This could result in far less than a straight line forward (ever been in an airline holding pattern?). In essence, your 60 miles could've been 260 miles (though not in a straight line). Likewise, slowing down to avoid weather is always a possibility. 

In addition, I already cited the port traffic issue (no parking space, personnel, shortage, et al.) and there are many other factors too numerous to mention here.

This somewhat reminds me of a non-military, government training cruise (maritime academy) long ago. The next segment of a cruise was Okinawa to Honolulu. Had to leave days early due to typhoon. Saipan was full of Navy ships due to a WWII commemorative event. But, fortunately, the port captain was a Cal Maritime grad. (Had he not then rafted us three deep, I never would have gotten to meet Paul Tibbits at the event)

Fast forward to news that Honolulu tugs had just gone on strike. Next possible port was Midway (now a bird sanctuary). Ships not allowed (unless, in this case, it had a MARAD designation and two five gallon drums of strawberry ice cream). Still had the Honolulu tug challenge. But, fortunately, owner of one tug company was another Cal Maritime grad.

For these, and other factors, you don't want to know how little straight line gains we made and none of it had to do with weather once we "got out of dodge" (aka Okinawa).

Edited November 29, 2018 by Flatbush Flyer

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, nyfeds said:

In addition, several months before this cruise, Stirrup Cay was changed to Nassau.  A monumental waste of time at this worthless port, IMHO.

 

 

 

Both  those  stops  are  a waste of time  IMO

 

[LHT28]

I do  not need to hear  every detail  of  where we are   if  we miss ports  I will take  the Captains word  as to why

I am  not  a Master Mariner  but  I do know  that it will take twice or even 3 times as long to go  the same distance  by sea as it does by car

 

 too bad  the weather  ruined your cruise   maybe cruising is not for you

Reading other forums here  there were other cruises  also disrupted by the storms in the Med

[nyfeds]

40 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I do  not need to hear  every detail  of  where we are   if  we miss ports  I will take  the Captains word  as to why

I am  not  a Master Mariner  but  I do know  that it will take twice or even 3 times as long to go  the same distance  by sea as it does by car

 

 too bad  the weather  ruined your cruise   maybe cruising is not for you

Reading other forums here  there were other cruises  also disrupted by the storms in the Med

We love cruising. Ship does happen, regardless of land or cruise trips.The real issue at hand that we don't appreciate is rude, poor customer service, which was what our real issue was with Reception and Concierge crew.  I am retired from the hospitality industry.  If I would would have treated my guests as so many of us were poorly subjected to on this cruise (and there were many who voiced their displeasure), I would have been fired.

 

To be balanced, we received some stellar service throughout the ship.  Both the excellent and the horrid were reflected in our cruise evaluations.

Edited November 29, 2018 by nyfeds

[Shawnino]

36 minutes ago, nyfeds said:

We love cruising. Ship does happen, regardless of land or cruise trips.The real issue at hand that we don't appreciate is rude, poor customer service, which was what our real issue was with Reception and Concierge crew.  I am retired from the hospitality industry.  If I would would have treated my guests as so many of us were poorly subjected to on this cruise (and there were many who voiced their displeasure), I would have been fired.

 

To be balanced, we received some stellar service throughout the ship.  Both the excellent and the horrid were reflected in our cruise evaluations.

 

+1. Great service about the ship, but Reception was generally brutal/rude (exceptions: the two taller gents who were fine) and our Concierge on 9 was utterly useless and disinterested. Every time we asked for help he said no.

 

Reception for instance kept calling the second cabin under my name demanding a credit card imprint for incidentals from them-- despite me having put my card down for both rooms both five months before cruise and at shoreside check-in. I had to go to reception four times to sort it out, and on all but the third, the women at Reception acted like I was imposing on them. I finally told one of them to stop giving me attitude about wanting their credit card and not mine (some people do not own credit cards, esp. in Russia... this woman refused to believe that) and asked to see the Chief Purser.

The Chief Purser did sort matters in about 25 seconds, and with a smile that matched her total professionalism. Our party was never called again re: credit card. Good on her.

 

[wripro]

Interesting that Oceania seemingly encounters more storms than any other cruise line.

 

More storms = more unreturned port fees = more profit!

[babysteps]

Seems that, based on CC reports, if you don't want a vacation with (sometimes very) limited information or response regarding port cancellations, O may not be the best fit.  Or select voyages very carefully by region & time of year in order to minimize skipped ports.

 

One thought I haven't noticed so far in these discussions - just because it's safe to exit your storm shelter doesn't mean it's a good idea to dock a cruise ship lol.  When a port is affected by a large storm, the port authority may choose to restrict tourism access (before or after) to yield to supplies/cargo/relief efforts and/or damage inspections.  And local tourist facilities may remain closed or open-but-damaged even if the port is available.  Not saying that pre/post-storm local restrictions were at issue in either of the latest 2 episodes of "hey, who moved my port stop", but may have been in play (or not). 

[Our experience - We have missed one port so far on 6 O cruises, but in addition on various cruises have had schedules impacted by weather (including going through glacier alley near Ushuaia at night instead of afternoon, after being pinned to the dock by high winds for several hours) and medical emergencies (early arrival, late arrival, mid-sea-day delay & early departure on different occasions).  Meanwhile, the one time we went to the Falklands (perhaps our most-likely-to-miss stop so far), it was a lovely 65f degree day - the *next* day we would have missed the stop though.    Also, reception staff more than once seem to hearken back to "the customer is wrong" service approach - but the vast majority of the time are lovely.  None of this fell into the big-issue bucket for us. As always, your mileage may vary!]

Edited November 29, 2018 by babysteps

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, wripro said:

Interesting that Oceania seemingly encounters more storms than any other cruise line.

 

More storms = more unreturned port fees = more profit!

you should  be  a writer  with all your conspiracy theories 😉

[cruzzzinma]

And we we ended the cruise with a disembarkation that was the worst experience I have had in 20 cruises.

[Shawnino]

23 minutes ago, cruzzzinma said:

And we we ended the cruise with a disembarkation that was the worst experience I have had in 20 cruises.

 

Yes, but I'm half willing to give O a pass on the disembark. Half.

 

To be fair to O, we were docked from roughly 6am. That local authorities didn't clear the luggage by 8am likely wasn't O's issue. 

Once we were ready to go at 8:45, there was an accident on the gangway which froze everything. I don't know if you saw the pax's face as they eventually wheeled him to the medical centre for further price-gouging, but I did, and it was serious.

 

What they needed to do, not just for our convenience but for general safety, was have a second gangway open. And they didn't. And yeah they got exposed.

[RJB]

2 hours ago, cruzzzinma said:

And we we ended the cruise with a disembarkation that was the worst experience I have had in 20 cruises.

Where did you disembark?  

[Paulchili]

3 hours ago, cruzzzinma said:

And we we ended the cruise with a disembarkation that was the worst experience I have had in 20 cruises.

What happened?

[Go-Bucks!]

If a certain cruiseline is making you unhappy, choose a different one. Great news...there are many, many of them...all price ranges, different size ships, different cultures.  But if you expect to never miss a port again, I think you'll be disappointed. People complain about all lines, so obviously none are without issues.  Good luck in the future!

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, Shawnino said:

Once we were ready to go at 8:45, there was an accident on the gangway which froze everything. I don't know if you saw the pax's face as they eventually wheeled him to the medical centre for further price-gouging, but I did, and it was serious.

 

 

 

I guess  they should have just let him  get a taxi to a local hospital

 

You people are unreal

[Ken the cruiser]

Wow! We were on this TA leg as well as the previous 3 legs and had a totally different experience. Yes, HQ and the Captain decided to skip the Canary Islands due to the massive low in the north Atlantic that was heading South and we're glad they did as we really didn't feel like cruising across the Atlantic through 25-35+ foot swells for 2 days if we would have stayed the 2 days in the CI. As far as the Concierge on the 9th floor goes, Carlos was great and was very helpful when we needed help resolving a reservation issue. But I must say some people ask some really strange things, and that's just while we were sitting there checking into our flight prior to disembarkation.

 

The same goes for the folks behind the customer service desk. They have to deal with all kinds of issues and attitudes every day, to include ours when we had issues transitioning between legs. I guess the computer doesn't know how to handle a cruise when it's a B2B followed by a Grand Voyage. But, they were always professional and eventually resolved our issues to our satisfaction. All things considered, we thought they dealt with the stress of the position quite well.

 

I might also add the destination services folks, Arthur, Pablo and Liane, were great and always were a big help when we needed them to "launder" our 30+ O excursions to convert our nonrefundable OBC into refundable.

 

As far as the food and service goes, it was simply great, except they don't cook the scrambled eggs long enough up in the Terrace Cafe. But that's a personal preference and we learned to work around it. We would have them cooked to order at the grill if they weren't too busy, or order something else, or simply eat breakfast in the GDR.

 

Our BIG issue, and mind you we were on the Riviera for 44 days total, was the internet service, or the lack there of, and we will not sail on another O class ship again until they fix it. Whoever came up with the decision to offer unlimited internet service to every cabin, without upgrading the existing system, made a very bad decision. But the good news I hear is that they are going to update the system during the next dry dock in 2019. The bad news is it will remain a total disaster until then! Funny thing was the service was fine on both the Sirena and Nautica when we sailed on them in May and July/August, respectively. But there are only 330 cabins on the R class ships rather than 600+ cabins on the O class ships.

 

Just as a side note as far as missed ports go, we missed Malta on the first leg, Athens to Athens, because of high winds and Venice was flooded when we arrived there for 3 days between the 2nd and 3rd legs, Athens to Venice and Venice to Barcelona. On our 3rd leg, we missed Rhodes because of a medical emergency and we had to go back to Messina causing a 6 hour delay. But since a storm was going to be pounding Rhodes if we had continued on, the decision was to do a sea day and head to the next port which was Crete. Then, of course, we missed the 2 Canary island ports on the 4th leg, which was definitely a bummer for those that just booked the TA as they were the highlights of that leg.

 

But, as someone said, ship happens especially when you cruise the Med in November. But for us, overall, it was a great cruise and once O fixes their internet "saturation" issue on the O class ships, we would have no problem recommending O to anyone that asks.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Ken the cruiser

[Mura]

Just a comment about the complaints about internet service on Riviera on this cruise.  Actually, we were originally booked on the first leg for this cruise and then the TA but switched to a May cruise (Monte Carlo to Rome to Barcelona).  On that cruise I had no complaints about the internet.  I know it's not going to be as good as it is at home!  But it was fast enough for me.

 

I do tend to go online to download email, then go offline to prepare answers, go back online to send the answers.  I don't know if that's a factor.

 

I wonder why what worked adequately for me in May would have been unsatisfactory in November.  The itinerary?

 

Maybe.

 

Mura

Edited November 30, 2018 by Mura

[LHT28]

6 minutes ago, Mura said:

I wonder why what worked adequately for me in May would have been unsatisfactory in November.  The itinerary?

 

Maybe.

 

Mura

 

I agree  it worked fine  last Dec  for me

mind you we do not upload photos  to send home or do Face time or other  chats

I do not cruise for the internet

 

[Mura]

That's true.  I'm not sending photos home (I do that after I AM home), I don't chat, etc.  I'm keeping track of email (which is mostly stuff I delete without reading), writing home when I need to, going to a website if I must.  Sometimes I go to CC to make a comment about the cruise ... as I recall I did when we were on our Lima-NYC cruise in 2015 and had an outbreak of Noro.  I wanted to warn people about the problem.  I think, Lyn, that you were on the cruise that left shortly thereafter from Montreal which had a recurrence of the problem.  Am I wrong on that score?

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to run a business from a cruise ship ... I know that some people need to keep in contact with their business.  But we never have had to ...

 

Mura

[Ken the cruiser]

46 minutes ago, Mura said:

Just a comment about the complaints about internet service on Riviera on this cruise.  Actually, we were originally booked on the first leg for this cruise and then the TA but switched to a May cruise (Monte Carlo to Rome to Barcelona).  On that cruise I had no complaints about the internet.  I know it's not going to be as good as it is at home!  But it was fast enough for me.

 

I do tend to go online to download email, then go offline to prepare answers, go back online to send the answers.  I don't know if that's a factor.

 

I wonder why what worked adequately for me in May would have been unsatisfactory in November.  The itinerary?

 

Maybe.

 

Mura

The issue is complicated. First, if you logged off of your O account, it was difficult at times to log back onto your account. Second, sometimes after reviewing and subsequently deleting emails, they would reappear in the Inbox over and over after subsequently deleting them before connectivity was long enough to send the deleted messages to our email server. Sometimes it would be 4-5 hours before email was able to be successfully downloaded.

 

Third, my DW was unable to send any emails with an attachment, even if the attachment was less than a MB. Fourth, connectivity was bearable only after midnight or when everyone was at dinner or the evening show, sometimes. During the day in port connectivity was nonexistent most of the time.

 

Fifth, if there were a lot of devices left on in cabins which maintain an active login, remember everyone has unlimited service so why log off, each email client on those devices would automatically bind to their respective email server every 5 minutes or so to download any new email. To do this each device has to establish a connection on the router nearest them. These routers can only handle so many connections, with the oldest connection being terminated when a new device tries to bind to the router. My DW would be logged on doing something and then get disconnected for no apparent reason.

 

The bottom line is we've been on 30+ cruises and have experienced various levels of internet service. The internet service we experienced on all 4 legs of this cruise on the Riviera was the worst we have ever experienced and it just wasn't us. Everyone we talked with, to include the GM, Dominic, and the CDs agreed that it was terrible.

 

Sure, you can minimize the impact by using workarounds that limit your access that work best for you, but this should not be the case. O needs to upgrade their internet software and hardware functionality to meet the demand, especially if they are going to offer unlimited service to everyone and optionally charge $9.99/day for streaming, which BTW uses the same bandwidth and router service as the rest of the unlimited users.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Ken the cruiser