Panama Canal

[Bee Guy]

We would like to cruise through the "new" Panama Canal.  Is it possible to book a Panama Canal cruise and be sure that you will go through the new canal?

[leaveitallbehind]

That would be cruise line and ship itinerary dependent.  You would have to see if the itinerary specifies which canal is used and whether it is a full transit or partial. A number of Atlantic / Pacific re-positioning itineraries use the canal as their means of transit.  Others with the canal as as part of their regional itinerary use it for a partial transit.

 

Many of the larger ships today - if offering a Panama Canal itinerary - would likely need to use the new canal due to their size.  But again, it would depend on what ships a cruise line offering a transit are using for the itinerary.  I would talk with the cruise lines directly or a travel agent to see what information they can provide.

Edited December 9, 2018 by leaveitallbehind

[Nebr.cruiser]

I have seen cruises that advertise that they will use the new canal; you would just have to read the itinerary with care.  Probably some of the bigger ships that were unable to use the original canal.  

 

I suppose it would be possible that they would be assigned to the old one?

[CruiserBruce]

You are just going to have to do the research and determine if a given ship is going to use the new or old locks. Generally speaking, if the ship isn't too big for the old locks, they will use the old locks. The number of  cruise ships using the new locks is pretty small.

 

Discussed frequently on the Panama board, here:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/54-panama-canal/

[Essiesmom]

Currently, Princess offers partial transits through the new locks on the Atlantic side on a regular basis.  The next cruise will be on Dec. 9 and following that on Jan 2.  Disney Wonder will do a full transit on a cruise that starts February 24 from Port Canaveral.  Carnival Valor will do a partial transit on the Atlantic side on a cruise starting from Galveston on Feb. 28.  Emerald Princess has a full transit eastbound from several west coast ports in April. Carnival Sunrise will do a partial transit from the Atlantic side on a cruise leaving NYC on May 27.  NCL Bliss will transit westbound on a cruise leaving Miami on March 30.  

  This info is from www.cruisetimetables.com, choosing Panama Canal (cruising canal) from the Ports of Call list.  Except for the NCL ships which don't list their transit days.  You just have to know who does them and look at the maps.  EM

[Heidi13]

To guarantee a Canal transit using the new locks you need to book a cruise on a post-Panamax ship, which is a ship too big for the old locks.

 

Look for ships with a beam of > 110 feet or 32.2 metres. Max length for the old locks was about 965 feet or 295 metres.

 

Basically any of the newer mega ships must use the new locks.

[Underwatr]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

To guarantee a Canal transit using the new locks you need to book a cruise on a post-Panamax ship, which is a ship too big for the old locks.

 

The restriction on post-Panamax cruise ships is more than due to the size of the locks. The Bridge of the Americas is too low for unrestricted passage by many large cruise ships. I've studied this for the Queen Mary 2; QM2's air draft is enough that it exceeds the unrestricted height but is less than the maximum height permitted with prior permission.

 

From the Panama Canal Authority's OP Notice to Shipping No. N-1-2018, Vessel Requirements:

 

f. Maximum Height 
 The allowable height for any vessel transiting the Canal or entering the Port of Balboa at any state of the tide is 57.91 meters (190 feet) measured from the waterline to its highest point. With prior permission from the Transit Operations Division Executive Manager, height may be permitted to 62.5 meters (205 feet) on a case-by-case basis, with passage at low water (MLWS) at Balboa. Maximum Height Restrictions are due to the tide and the unpredictable upward movement of water from swells, surges, waves, etc., and maintenance equipment suspended beneath the bridge at Balboa.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Underwatr

[fishywood]

Sheesh, what a bunch of complicated responses to a "Who is buried in Grant's Tomb?" question.

 

If you want to transit the new locks, pick a ship too large for the old ones. The end.

 

The implication in post #3 that "some of the bigger ships that [are] unable to use the original canal [locks]...would be possibl[y] assigned to the old ones [locks]" is beyond befuddling.

Edited December 11, 2018 by fishywood

[Heidi13]

16 hours ago, Underwatr said:

 

The restriction on post-Panamax cruise ships is more than due to the size of the locks. The Bridge of the Americas is too low for unrestricted passage by many large cruise ships. I've studied this for the Queen Mary 2; QM2's air draft is enough that it exceeds the unrestricted height but is less than the maximum height permitted with prior permission.

 

From the Panama Canal Authority's OP Notice to Shipping No. N-1-2018, Vessel Requirements:

 

f. Maximum Height 
 The allowable height for any vessel transiting the Canal or entering the Port of Balboa at any state of the tide is 57.91 meters (190 feet) measured from the waterline to its highest point. With prior permission from the Transit Operations Division Executive Manager, height may be permitted to 62.5 meters (205 feet) on a case-by-case basis, with passage at low water (MLWS) at Balboa. Maximum Height Restrictions are due to the tide and the unpredictable upward movement of water from swells, surges, waves, etc., and maintenance equipment suspended beneath the bridge at Balboa.

You are correct that clearance under Bridge of America is an issue for pax vessels, but this is verified by the Ops Depts when developing itineraries. Mega ships that are too high cannot be scheduled for full transits, so you will not find them included in any Canal itineraries.

 

If a pax vessel is scheduled for a cruise comprising a full Canal transit and the ship's beam is > 32.2m then it must use the new locks and it will clear BoA. 

[Underwatr]

You're right, one thing I overlooked is that if a ship schedules an itinerary through the Panama Canal, it means that they have considered the logistics of fitting through the canal.

 

My train of thought was that I didn't know what post-Panamax cruise ships also fit under the bridge, so it might be unusual for one to go through the canal.

[Underwatr]

Here's an article on cruise ships using the new "Neo-Panamax" locks 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2018/05/14/norwegian-bliss-cruise-ship-record-panama-canal-transit/606652002/

 

The article lists the following ships as using the new locks. Probably there are more...

• Norwegian Bliss 
• Caribbean Princess
• Carnival Splendor

 

[Texas Tillie]

I was on the Disney Wonder in Nov, 2017 through the new locks. Check and see if Disney is still repositioning that ship in the spring and or fall.

[Greg4502]

If you have never been through the old locks, I would do that first. The new locks operate different, than the old.

You can not see the old locks from the new ones.

[Bee Guy]

15 minutes ago, Greg4502 said:

If you have never been through the old locks, I would do that first. The new locks operate different, than the old.

You can not see the old locks from the new ones.

 

I agree.  I should have mentioned that we have been through the old locks a couple of times. 

[Texas Tillie]

4 hours ago, Greg4502 said:

If you have never been through the old locks, I would do that first. The new locks operate different, than the old.

You can not see the old locks from the new ones.

 

I agree too, having done the old ones twice and the new ones once. Old is a better experience.

[evandbob]

Even if your ship goes through the old locks, there is usually an excursion to visit the new locks and see their construction, etc. and how they differ. 

 

There may also be a tour that can take you through the new locks on a ferry or smaller boat like they have with the old locks for cruise ships that don't enter the Camal and just dock in Colon?

[chase22]

Would the old locks on Princess be called "Full Transit"?  I'm just starting to look into a Panama Canal cruise and I want to do the old locks first.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, chase22 said:

Would the old locks on Princess be called "Full Transit"?  I'm just starting to look into a Panama Canal cruise and I want to do the old locks first.

"Full Transit" means you go the full length of the Canal, from Atlantic to Pacific, or the other way.  Some cruise lines do "partial transits", where you go in the Atlantic locks, anchor in Gatun Lake, and later return out the Atlantic locks.  Older ships will be "Panamax", meaning they fit in the old locks.  There are only a few newer ships that have Canal cruises scheduled that need the new, larger locks.  You can look up any cruise ship on wiki, and find the "beam" or width of the ship.  If the beam is 105 feet or less, the ship will use the old locks.

[Essiesmom]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

"Full Transit" means you go the full length of the Canal, from Atlantic to Pacific, or the other way.  Some cruise lines do "partial transits", where you go in the Atlantic locks, anchor in Gatun Lake, and later return out the Atlantic locks.  Older ships will be "Panamax", meaning they fit in the old locks.  There are only a few newer ships that have Canal cruises scheduled that need the new, larger locks.  You can look up any cruise ship on wiki, and find the "beam" or width of the ship.  If the beam is 105 feet or less, the ship will use the old locks.

 

There is at least one ship that meets the beam qualifier, but is too long:  Disney Wonder.  She transits through the new locks.  Her next westbound transit will be on March 6.  EM

[Bee Guy]

44 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

6

There is at least one ship that meets the beam qualifier, but is too long:  Disney Wonder.  She transits through the new locks.  Her next westbound transit will be on March 6.  EM

 

 

I apologize for nit picking, but the March 6 cruse is in 2020.  I believe the next westbound is Feb 24, 2019.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Bee Guy

[Essiesmom]

5 minutes ago, Bee Guy said:

 

 

 

I apologize for nit picking, but the March 6 cruse is in 2020.  I believe the next westbound is Feb 24, 2019.

 

 

We are both wrong...sort of.  I was referring to the date she is in the canal, not the date of the cruise.  But she will be there on March 2, not the 6th as I posted before.  EM

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

 

There is at least one ship that meets the beam qualifier, but is too long:  Disney Wonder.  She transits through the new locks.  Her next westbound transit will be on March 6.  EM

Thought it strange any shipping company would built a ship meeting Panamax limits for beam and draft, but exceed the length.

 

Just checked the ship's particulars and her LOA is 294m (294 ft), which is just within the Panamax limit of 294.13m (965 ft). Her beam is 32.3m (106 ft), which is the Panamax maximum. As the locks are 110 ft wide, this provides 2 ft clearance each side.

 

Her ship's particulars meet Panamax guidelines, and are exactly the same as Island/Coral Princess, which were built to Panamax limits. Therefore, she should fit through the old locks.

 

However, similar to Island/Coral, they may have lifeboats, or other structures wider than the hull, which are wider than the locks. On 2 Princess ships the boats must be pulled inboard prior to entering the Canal. If the Disney Wonder must use the new locks, she may have a similar situation, as her ship's particulars are in compliance with Panamax limits.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Thought it strange any shipping company would built a ship meeting Panamax limits for beam and draft, but exceed the length.

 

Just checked the ship's particulars and her LOA is 294m (294 ft), which is just within the Panamax limit of 294.13m (965 ft). Her beam is 32.3m (106 ft), which is the Panamax maximum. As the locks are 110 ft wide, this provides 2 ft clearance each side.

 

Her ship's particulars meet Panamax guidelines, and are exactly the same as Island/Coral Princess, which were built to Panamax limits. Therefore, she should fit through the old locks.

 

However, similar to Island/Coral, they may have lifeboats, or other structures wider than the hull, which are wider than the locks. On 2 Princess ships the boats must be pulled inboard prior to entering the Canal. If the Disney Wonder must use the new locks, she may have a similar situation, as her ship's particulars are in compliance with Panamax limits.

What happened, Capt, is that they added a "ducktail" to the transom, which now exceeds the lock length.

[Heidi13]

Thanks Chief - mystery solved.

 

Never paid any attention to Disney since they got into the business, but might have to in a few years as grandkids can't come with us on Viking.

[jillire]

On 12/23/2018 at 7:52 PM, chase22 said:

Would the old locks on Princess be called "Full Transit"?  I'm just starting to look into a Panama Canal cruise and I want to do the old locks first.

As far as I know, the only Princess ships that fit the old locks are the Island and Coral so I’d look for one of those.