Jump to content
Cruise Critic Community
Keith1010

LIVE - WORLD CRUISE 2019 & MORE - A NEW ADVENTURE UNFOLDS - 12/15/18 - 5/21/19

Recommended Posts

I am really enjoying this thread. I’m not sure I would have the patience for seven sea days. It was a shame about the pool Robin. I’m sure you weren’t alone in your frustration. I hope that doesn’t happen on our voyage in August. That said, I agree with the others.

We sail by itinerary and have been on many cruiselines, but Crystal is special. The staff go to great lengths to make the passengers feel welcome. We love the big ship amenities and the small ship service. It’s a good fit for us. Robin, vacation is the time to be happy. IMHO you should try something else or go back to Azamara.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cairn Mom said:

Robin, vacation is the time to be happy. IMHO you should try something else or go back to Azamara.

Well said!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you are all very rude people. Lucky for me on this ship I am only meeting lovely nice people.

 

i am sure Keith is fed up with your telling me off. I have been for weeks.

 

everyone had a right to like two wines, two types of fish so why not cruise lines.

 

as far as the pool goes many guests were well over not having pool water.  Several of us are enjoying pre dinner swims and hot tubs while others are plYing paddle ball or clued to the bar. Plus it was close to 40 today out.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ellbon said:

I think you are all very rude people. Lucky for me on this ship I am only meeting lovely nice people.

 

i am sure Keith is fed up with your telling me off. I have been for weeks.

 

everyone had a right to like two wines, two types of fish so why not cruise lines.

 

as far as the pool goes many guests were well over not having pool water.  Several of us are enjoying pre dinner swims and hot tubs while others are plYing paddle ball or clued to the bar. Plus it was close to 40 today out.

 

 

 

 

I sorry you felt I was telling you off. I totally did not mean it that way. You just don’t seem happy and I was trying to help. There are so many cruiselines and for the money your spending, I think you should love your vacation. I won’t say another word on this subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2019 at 8:25 PM, Cairn Mom said:

I sorry you felt I was telling you off. I totally did not mean it that way. You just don’t seem happy and I was trying to help. There are so many cruiselines and for the money your spending, I think you should love your vacation. I won’t say another word on this subject.

I will accept your words. I have done four cruise lines in two years. They all have something for everyone. But only two work for me.  I am loving the ports. But for the first time in eight years I now understand why some guests think loyal guests..on any line..think we get vip treatment ad I see it here in Waterside. So I owe a lot of people I am sorry for the six years I have had it.

i get great treatment  at bars and pool. Like to see it more in Waterside to new guests. Today I asked for a dish in48 hours and was told I have to ask the chef. Yet watch days ago another guest say fine and I tape thst bennie for veal. I should get that veal too. 

We all should be happy that a new cruise director has brought in so many guests . They will be back. Like me looking for the right ports

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ellbon

I struggle to understand a lot of what you write. Paticularly your comments about veal? It did occur to me that this is Keith’s thread - he is obviously having a ball and verbally paints wonderfully graphic pictures for those of us who are not lucky enough to join this cruise. You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion  -  but maybe you should start your own thread as so much of this cruise does not suit you. Readers can then decide whether they wish to follow you?

This is not intended to be nasty - merely a suggestion?

Keep up your great posts please Keith - they are very much appreciated!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ellbon said:

I think you are all very rude people. Lucky for me on this ship I am only meeting lovely nice people.

 

i am sure Keith is fed up with your telling me off. I have been for weeks.

 

everyone had a right to like two wines, two types of fish so why not cruise lines.

 

as far as the pool goes many guests were well over not having pool water.  Several of us are enjoying pre dinner swims and hot tubs while others are plYing paddle ball or clued to the bar. Plus it was close to 40 today out.

 

 

 

 

Oh my.  Most of us check in here for Keith's informative updates on his WC experience.  For that reason, I've avoided commenting until now.  But the above pops my cork.

 

Most of us reading this thread are at home currently,  living and working. Some are counting down the days to their next Crystal cruise.  Some of us are consulting our financial statements figuring out how to swing our next Crystal cruise.  In the meantime, we drop in here for some WC news and a daydream or two about the wonderfulness of it all.

 

But you're not doing that.  Because you're ON a Crystal cruise.  The 2019 Crystal Serenity World Cruise.  We know this because of your many, many, many posts on this thread lamenting the status of the pool.  And now some indecipherable complaint about veal demonstrating your second class status in the dining room.    Then when some point out that maybe enough is enough, they're being mean to you?  Oh, c'mon...

 

You'll point out you are entitled to your opinions.  You are.  You'll point out you are entitled to express your opinions.  You are.  But, as another poster suggested, perhaps you can take your trenchant opinions and the gaseous cloud of negativity that seems to surround you to a thread of your own.  I'll even suggest a thread title:

 

"Crystal World Cruise 2019: A Fine Whine" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today is the start of March where we are sailing.

 

We. are scheduled to arrive to Reunion Island this morning.

 

The weather situation was better than anticipated yesterday.  Some people might have seen little. to no rain while others might have seen some rain depending on where they were visiting.  

 

Yesterday's. Face-To-Face inspection in. the Palm Court was a bit unique.  When these are held the normal process is to see face to fact one of the local personnel who may or may not ask you a question before stamping your passport.  This was not the case yesterday by the time our group number was called.  We entered the room and our key card was swiped so they knew precisely which guests had come to the inspection.  With our passport and landing cards already in hand instead of being directed to where the local authors were seated we went to another table and handed one of the Crystal members our passports and left.  I suspect the local authorities realized it was too much and they just ended up stamping the passports without the face to face contact with the guests.

 

Yesterday was also embarkation day. for those guests who joined the ship.  Sometimes people have asked how that process works and things like will flutes of Champagne be available.  Yesterday when newly embarking guests came on. board they checked in. at. the desks which were set up as is the case if one checks in at the beginning of the cruise.  There was a bar waiter there at all times with a tray of flutes of champagne and someone was at the Cove performing music.  The bar waiters changed as did the musicians as the embarkation process took place over several hours.  I've added a brief video.  I hope it works.

 

 

 

I want to fast forward to last evening.  

 

Before we went to dinner with another couple we were looking at the menu at Waterside trying to figure out what we would order.  Anne Marie was sure of the appetizer and I had no clue not being familiar with one of them. I was back and forth on what salad to order.  When it came. to the entree I was unsure of the specific fish and just not sure what I would order.  I know. this are not major challenges in the scheme of things.  LOL.  

 

The good news is that the items we ate were wonderful.  The menu reflected ingredients and food items that took on the local flare of Mauritius.   The items were creative, flavorful, had wonderful presentations and were absolutely delicious.  Our Senior Waiter Claudia was very helpful in answering my questions about the appetizer I was considering and she did likewise for the fish I ended up ordering and explained to me that it was part of the Snapper Family.  Here goes.

 

Appetizers:

 

Mahi Mahi- Jalapeño Flat Bread for me

 

IMG_4022.thumb.jpg.892cddf0bd2d5f88b0fc4711c7118870.jpg

 

 

Seared Sea Scallops for Anne Marie

 

IMG_4023.thumb.jpg.cfe0eba2f195f8eca7850173455266a0.jpg

 

 

We both had salads.  I didn't take a photo of the one that Anne Marie had.  As we have been doing on this cruise we look at the starter salad and also the entree salad.  If the entree salad is more appealing we have it as a starter salad and without any of the seafood/poultry/beef items.  This is what I did last night.  It was a delicious chopped salad.

 

1613232294_IMG_40242.thumb.jpg.174ead33b1275fdeb705abb2e0a68aca.jpg

 

Next up the entrees.

 

Anne Marie had the Chicken Saltim Bocca.

 

IMG_4026.thumb.jpg.600591c6a7bea354fd889fa4ef36c94d.jpg

 

I had the Fresh Mauritius Sacre Chien Fillet (similar to a Red Snapper) 

 

IMG_4025.thumb.jpg.2f1b2aa2c174bf9b171288185fca0608.jpg

 

Since open dining rolled out on Symphony and Serenity my own view is that the food has been terrific.  I find that it comes out hotter on most nights and is moist, tasty and more creative.  I think it benefits from likely not sitting under heating lamps.  I also think the entire process is better and that the use of the iPads which takes the order immediately to the galley makes for an efficient process.

 

As I have said before this does not mean that each and every item we have is always perfect because that is not the case.  However, overall we do find that the vast majority of the items have been terrific.

 

Last night was the White Night Extravaganza.  We didn't stay up for the party as we. did when it was held earlier in the evening.    

 

This is the daily Reflections Program from today.

 

Reflections.pdf

 

I have enjoyed reading comments on CC and on our Blog.  If people have questions or comments that I can address please be sure to let me know.  

 

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

 

I have enjoyed reading comments on CC and on our Blog.  If people have questions or comments that I can address please be sure to let me know.  

 

Keith

 

A quick question Keith.  I notice on your daily update today and in a post on another thread that you have managed to format them with photos, video, etc. inserted at various stages throughout the post.  How??   I have found it so frustrating that since the new format CC debuted that I can only insert them in a single block rather than individually... 

 

Anne..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Anne, it did take me a while to figure this one out and at the beginning I would end up with photos and/or video on the wrong spot.

 

As background I do all of this with every few exceptions on a portable computer (MacBook Air) but I could do it on the iPhone but just don't like typing on it.

 

To place a photo in a certain section where I have a sentence above it and one below it already written I will go to the first sentence and hit return one or two times and then I will add the photo or video at that point.  If I wanted to add a few photos then I could add them and they would show up in that order. 

Then if I want to add more I go to the bottom of the last photo or video and click to the right of it and then click on return one or more times so that I have space to work with.  From there I could add more sentences/paragraphs and the add more photos and or videos. 

 

If I forget to do this then from time to time I end up with a photo at the top of my narrative or one below it when I don't want it there.

 

I could write all my narrative up front and then place my curser where I want to add the photo and click on the mouse and then click return to open up some space.


I hope this makes sense.

 

Keith

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Keith1010 said:

HI Anne, it did take me a while to figure this one out and at the beginning I would end up with photos and/or video on the wrong spot.

 

As background I do all of this with every few exceptions on a portable computer (MacBook Air) but I could do it on the iPhone but just don't like typing on it.

 

To place a photo in a certain section where I have a sentence above it and one below it already written I will go to the first sentence and hit return one or two times and then I will add the photo or video at that point.  If I wanted to add a few photos then I could add them and they would show up in that order. 

Then if I want to add more I go to the bottom of the last photo or video and click to the right of it and then click on return one or more times so that I have space to work with.  From there I could add more sentences/paragraphs and the add more photos and or videos. 

 

If I forget to do this then from time to time I end up with a photo at the top of my narrative or one below it when I don't want it there.

 

I could write all my narrative up front and then place my curser where I want to add the photo and click on the mouse and then click return to open up some space.


I hope this makes sense.

 

Keith

 

 

Keith,

 

Thanks.  I’ll need to print that off, read and inwardly digest as it sounds quite complicated, but with instructions beside me it may make more sense when actually trying it out.  I usually just use my iPad for posting, especially when I am travelling, and it was so easy before with Tapatalk or the CC mobile app...

 

Anne...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keith 

 

I went to,Palm Court about  845 to nine and as you said no one looked at out passports. Later in the day I commented to the officer who swiped my card no one even asked for the blue landing card. Nor did they when the card was yellow several ports ago.

 

what was more interesting was that we were told we needed our passports if leaving the ship today tour or on your own. No one looked there either. What random spot check..   that did not happen at 845 when I left nor when I came back.

 

all very strange.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anne, I find it's easier to write all my narrative  and then simply place my cursor where I want the images to be - again it's good to leave a line or two after the sentence where you want the pictures to appear. Basically where ever you place the cursor is where the picture will end up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keith Anne, and ClesDor,

For what it's worth, I'd like to offer my modus operandi:

1) Load all of the photos that you want to use in a post.

2) Start typing your text.  When you want to insert a photo, hit the Enter key twice, as has been suggested.  Scroll down to where your photos are, and hit the + sign on the photo.  It will appear in the post exactly where the cursor is.  Hit the Enter key twice again.

3) Type more text, and when you are ready to place a photo, go down and hit the + sign on the next photo.

 

I find that with this technique, all of the photos appear exactly where you want them.  Any photos that did not receive a hit on it's + sign will appear at the bottom of the post.

 

This works the same whether using a desktop/laptop, ipad, iphone or android phone.

 

Hope this helps,

Bob

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning everyone and thanks to Shirin and Bob for sharing the additional thoughts on this.  Since Anne used an iPad. I think it might be more challenging to do the writeup ahead of time but I could be mistaken.  When I am home I will take screen shots of how I do this to share with Anne and also with others at least showing how I do it.  I do agree with Anne that I found Tapatalk so easy to use.  I am not sure how it is with the iPad but most of the time on my iPhone I have to constantly log into CC.  Best of all worlds for me would have been going directly to CC using my computer and having Tapatalk to use on an iPhone and/or iPad. Oh well.

 

Will post more in a few minutes.

 

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ON THE ROAD TO MADAGASCAR

 

Good morning from Crystal Serenity on a sea day as we sail towards Madagascar.  

 

Robin this is the challenge with the local requirements.  You have to go with what they require but as was the case the past couple of days the local authorities don't always do what they say they will do.  I am reminded that in the USA sometimes at the last minute on the morning of disembarkation or later in the day for embarkation the local authorities change things at the last minute.  There is so much behind the scenes that those in the front office such as clearance officer and front office manager have to worry about.

 

We departed Reunion Island on-time and shortly after Captain Giske spoke from the bridge.  The forecast for Madagascar looks promising with no. rain in the forecast.

 

Following is a very short video to hear a little bit of the song that is so dear to many of us.  (And it's not The Beatles)

 

Last night we dined with Roland (Larry) and his wife Monica.   Since we have sailed with and dined together before it was a "Reunion" dinner which was fitting since we had just departed "Reunion" Island.

 

We dined at Silk.  This is our fourth time dining there on Serenity and fifth overall.  After dining there for a third time on Serenity I mentioned that we finally figured out what to order,  and how to pace the meal.  As we did at the former Tastes dining venue we discuss with the waiter after placing the order what item(s) will be brought out as individual courses and this allows the meal to be paced precisely the way we like it.

 

 Last evening got even better.  I would say that our overall dining experience was similar to the former Tastes.  We had delicious cuisine, the meal was paced well and we enjoyed the lovely ambience of the dining venue and this included a beautiful sunset.  

 

Rather than all sharing the same food, each couple ordered what they wanted and shared the food with one another.

 

For Anne Marie and myself.

 

We began with Tempura Prawn Salad with fruit.

 

IMG_4035.thumb.jpg.77a16688d96debd040763eea26acdb21.jpg

Our next course was Dim Sum Sampler of Scallops Schumai - Truffled Wild Mushroom - Duck along with the Spring Roll  Of the Day.

 

IMG_4036.thumb.jpg.1bd67c47759e4a6369d5f54b8b34c616.jpg
 

200286575_IMG_40372.thumb.jpg.274394b1d39bb7d3125f0be058aa6ae8.jpg
We shared three entree items; Kung Pao Chicken, Mongolian Style

Lamb Chops and Our Signature Stir-Fry Beef Tenderloin along with some Fried Rice and Seasonal Chinese Vegetables.

 

IMG_4041.thumb.jpg.bd30b44b5bfc57022d609ba82a66550a.jpg1504384035_IMG_4040(1).thumb.jpg.7e662f16f848a189970cbd6d70b12985.jpg1814109708_IMG_4039(1).thumb.jpg.21d86d0ec1ed52f923b6adabd51afbe1.jpgIMG_4042.thumb.jpg.b2a6e9477cfdb9e760b565dd445a0b80.jpg

Our final course was a Fruit Plate.  IMHO the fruit plate is the best of any of the fruit plates served in the dining venues.

 

IMG_4043.thumb.jpg.8c5caf9e83703f064b501d13ae70e1cc.jpg

 

 In my case I did have some Chinese Beer.

 

IMG_4038.thumb.jpg.6a45e534e7c8d61c4e8e8f9aab926f81.jpg

 

Like all dining venues and for that manner all food and drink our personal views of them are just our opinions based on our experiences, likes and dislikes.  

 

Speaking for myself I enjoy Silk.  Like Tastes we don't dine there frequently.  Our go to dining venue is Waterside and Silk, Prego and Uma Uma are the specialty restaurants and for us that means we won't dine at each one often to keep them special for us.  For something casual we have Churrascaria.


For those of you who have not eaten at Silk I encourage you to come with an open mind.  If you are like us it might take you a few times to learn from the menu how much of any item to order and what you like and don't care for.   For those of you woh have dined there before I would keep in mind that the menu continues to evolve and we do like the additional items which have been added.  Also the galley and waitstaff has evolved.  I am reminded that in the end they are a team and teams develop whether you are talking about the team that comprises a dining venue or a team that comprised an entirely new ship.

 

And many of you know my view.  Choice is good and thankfully there is more choice than ever when it comes to dinner on Crystal Serenity and Crystal Symphony.

 

This is todays' Daily Reflections Program.

 

Reflections.pdf

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Keith1010 said:

Good morning everyone and thanks to Shirin and Bob for sharing the additional thoughts on this.  Since Anne used an iPad. I think it might be more challenging to do the writeup ahead of time but I could be mistaken.  When I am home I will take screen shots of how I do this to share with Anne and also with others at least showing how I do it.  I do agree with Anne that I found Tapatalk so easy to use.  I am not sure how it is with the iPad but most of the time on my iPhone I have to constantly log into CC.  Best of all worlds for me would have been going directly to CC using my computer and having Tapatalk to use on an iPhone and/or iPad. Oh well.

 

Will post more in a few minutes.

 

Keith

 

Keith, Shirin and Bob

 

Thank you all.  I’ve taken a screenshot of each of your replies and will give them all a try and see which one I can master....

 

Remaining logged in, or constantly having to log in on the iPad is a mystery.  I can go long periods when my iPad remains logged into CC all the time, then out of nowhere come days (like yesterday) of having to log in whenever I check into the site....  🤔🤔

 

Anne..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keith

 

i just love Silk. I go about every 5 to 7 days. As I tend to go after the early show I just order a couple dishes and I am done. Some other couple always comes in about the same time so I am guessing they also like to go to the show first.

 

So far I am loving the new duck and the lobster curry. I get half orders plus some rice. I think next time I will have to try the chicken again and ask for more spices.

 

I also realize the ship does what  they are told to do when it comes to customs. But it is a lot of extra work for them and the guest never was checked. I can not find anywhere my new passport stamps either.

 

i think we have another face to face either tomorrow or the next port.  

 

Robin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

Best of all worlds for me would have been going directly to CC using my computer and having Tapatalk to use on an iPhone and/or iPad. Oh well.

Keith, actually there is some good news/bad news in regard to Tapatalk.  Tapatalk is now compatible to use with Cruise Critic for android and ios.

You must have the latest version of Tapatalk.

You may have to "unfollow" and then "follow" or rejoin Cruise Critic for it to work.

The bad news- remaining logged in seems to be an issue, you may find that you have to log in each time (although some users in the Help Forum say that it has been better of late.

The other bad news for ios users is that rather than thumbnails of your photos, you get strings of BBCode that many will find difficult to work with (or at least that is how it comes up with my ipad).

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keith, actually there is some good news/bad news in regard to Tapatalk.  Tapatalk is now compatible to use with Cruise Critic for android and ios.
You must have the latest version of Tapatalk.

Bob, thanks for this post. I didn’t realize the Tapatalk app was working again. It is so much easier than the cruise critic format.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2019 at 8:55 PM, Mickb said:

Ellbon

I struggle to understand a lot of what you write. Paticularly your comments about veal? It did occur to me that this is Keith’s thread - he is obviously having a ball and verbally paints wonderfully graphic pictures for those of us who are not lucky enough to join this cruise. You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion  -  but maybe you should start your own thread as so much of this cruise does not suit you. Readers can then decide whether they wish to follow you?

This is not intended to be nasty - merely a suggestion?

Keep up your great posts please Keith - they are very much appreciated!

 

For what it is worth, as someone who has sailed many times with Azamara but looking forward to our first Crystal cruise, this poster is something of a groupie of some senior staff on Azamara and gets VERY favourable treatment on Azamara (despite also moaning there).  It is therefore a hypocritical to state that others are getting favourable treatment.

Let's get back to Keith's entertaining and helpful reflections which I, and everyone else, are enjoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/2/2019 at 4:29 PM, Sir Humphrey said:

For what it is worth, as someone who has sailed many times with Azamara but looking forward to our first Crystal cruise, this poster is something of a groupie of some senior staff on Azamara and gets VERY favourable treatment on Azamara (despite also moaning there).  It is therefore a hypocritical to state that others are getting favourable treatment.

Let's get back to Keith's entertaining and helpful reflections which I, and everyone else, are enjoying.

Then I guess like many AZ guests  you get  very favorable treatment on your cruises too.   It is well notice  to new guests that they think some people get  better treatment.  Many many long time cruisers get the same treatment as we started when the line was new. 

 

My point was now I know how. New cruisers feel as I see it on this cruise line as a newbie.

 

i believe we should all have the same  treatment.  I just want the same service in Waterside as someone who has done 50 to 100 cruises.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ellbon said:

Then I guess like many AZ guests  you get  very favorable treatment on your cruises too.   It is well notice  to new guests that they think some people get  better treatment.  Many many long time cruisers get the same treatment as we started when the line was new. 

 

My point was now I know how. New cruisers feel as I see it on this cruise line as a newbie.

 

i believe we should all have the same  treatment.  I just want the same service in Waterside as someone who has done 50 to 100 cruises.

 

Interesting comment. We have many cruises on Crystal, spread out over a number of years, and yes, we get addressed by name everywhere we go. I say that not to sound "special", but to establish a baseline for service. We have been on the ship for a little over four weeks now and have met a number of first-timers, along with people on their second or third Crystal cruise, and they have all marveled at how intuitive the service is and almost universally asked us "How do they remember our names?" If you are not getting the same degree of service, and given the overwhelming negativity of all of your posts, have you ever considered the problem might be...............:classic_rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Given it seems this topic is going to be allowed to continue....

 

 I always wonder when the staff address me by name after a few days back on board if it’s because of a good or bad relationship or reputation 🙂 

 

Seriously though I think a lot of it is about how you treat and interact with staff - a thank you, a joke, a bit of understanding and interaction all go a long way to building relationships 

 

and as I’ve always noted - people buy from people - and that applies equally to the choices people make about how they interact with others in a service situation

 

There’s two ways to approach things - a clinical interaction or a engaging and fun one - I know which one I prefer 

Edited by Stickman1990

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • SAIL-AWAY GIVEAWAY - Enter for a chance to win a $3,000 Norwegian Cruise Line Gift Card
      • Forum Assistance
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Member Cruise Reviews
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...